Rocksolid Light

Welcome to Rocksolid Light

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

We are Microsoft. Unix is irrelevant. Openness is futile. Prepare to be assimilated.


tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

SubjectAuthor
* Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulatePentcho Valev
+- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateWallace Awturkhanoff
+- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulatepatdolan
+* Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateLaurence Clark Crossen
|+- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulatewhodat
|+* Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateProkaryotic Capase Homolog
||`- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulatewhodat
|+- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateMikko
|`* Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateTom Roberts
| +- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateAthel Cornish-Bowden
| `* Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateJ. J. Lodder
|  `- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulatemitchr...@gmail.com
+* Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateLaurence Clark Crossen
|`* Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulatewhodat
| `* Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateLaurence Clark Crossen
|  `- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulatewhodat
`- Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second PostulateKen Seto

1
Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122013&group=sci.physics.relativity#122013

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7f03:0:b0:40f:c807:f5f8 with SMTP id f3-20020ac87f03000000b0040fc807f5f8mr37560qtk.10.1691484830211;
Tue, 08 Aug 2023 01:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1490:b0:3a4:88e1:de37 with SMTP id
e16-20020a056808149000b003a488e1de37mr23256995oiw.1.1691484829825; Tue, 08
Aug 2023 01:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 01:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=93.27.150.145; posting-account=Lz-LbgoAAABPDavKeW-eYeobwLHD_cvQ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 93.27.150.145
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
From: pvalev@yahoo.com (Pentcho Valev)
Injection-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 08:53:50 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3024
 by: Pentcho Valev - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 08:53 UTC

Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:

Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory

Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768

Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<uatjo0$3dkq0$4@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122032&group=sci.physics.relativity#122032

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity sci.physics sci.math
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: fuhc@fhacllat.ew (Wallace Awturkhanoff)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 14:33:37 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <uatjo0$3dkq0$4@dont-email.me>
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 14:33:37 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="7e6196f24774145c5ce9a4fe0fc34144";
logging-data="3593024"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX192+yjZziiZbcTUzrbHpUzO"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/52.9.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:hgtv2jYrYcVgazSWRNwg51L+wiM=
Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUkKzbszr2l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X-Face: $3M2F0mq%2obu"K#>5Q)fW-uQ^hld}1#LBk9G}j.lZ&n:;D7_|EOAOQ'Ts@2f-/'
\A(vL6?S+eI}!9}8F4ugp<,Gb7"t817;_&/.Ys`6r'KC52W>VpcxwM9KHQPYw0,iPjv|\-V
nHD\:DDkeS]X/Kr[Y{yM?oHdRp=`Ef|x?eremc$Rsi7+1yR%x[ynSx~Vq`b\*UJ>yG~Oo:3
0(Gp@wmt;)CJfF,EuGbm6Jk")0f0z^1R9MB;Z2^XyH)"<qC(%PJHJBI
 by: Wallace Awturkhanoff - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 14:33 UTC

Pentcho Valev wrote:

> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the
> velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the
> stationary luminiferous ether."

๐‹๐†๐๐“๐+ ๐ซ๐ฎ๐ง๐ง๐ข๐ง๐  ๐๐ข๐๐š๐ง'๐ฌ ๐ฐ๐š๐ซ ๐ข๐ง ๐ฎ๐ค๐ฎ๐ซ๐ข๐ง๐š
https://r%74.com/ru%73%73ia/580996-russians-not-human-ukraine-transgender/

"and that the key difference ๐›๐ž๐ญ๐ฐ๐ž๐ž๐ง ๐ญ๐ก๐ž๐ฆ ๐š๐ง๐ ๐”๐ค๐ซ๐š๐ข๐ง๐ข๐š๐ง๐ฌ is โ€œhumanity.โ€
- tell that to civilians ๐›๐ฎ๐ซ๐ง๐ž๐ ๐š๐ฅ๐ข๐ฏ๐ž ๐ข๐ง ๐Ž๐๐ž๐ฌ๐ฌ๐š ๐ข๐ง 2014 ๐š๐ง๐ 9 ๐ฒ๐ž๐š๐ซ๐ฌ ๐จ๐Ÿ
๐ƒ๐จ๐ง๐›๐š๐ฌ๐ฌ ๐›๐จ๐ฆ๐›๐š๐ซ๐๐ฆ๐ž๐ง๐ญ๐ฌ

"Russian troops are not human" says ๐˜๐—ต๐—ฒ ๐—™๐—ฟ๐—ฎ๐—ป๐—ธ๐—ฒ๐—ป๐˜€๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ถ๐—ฎ๐—ป ๐—บ๐˜‚๐˜๐—ถ๐—น๐—ฎ๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ฑ ๐—ฐ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ๐—ฎ๐˜๐˜‚๐—ฟ๐—ฒ.

Ukro soldiers were very human during WW2 when ๐ญ๐ก๐ž๐ฒ_๐ฆ๐ฎ๐ซ๐๐ž๐ซ๐ž๐_200_000_๐๐จ๐ฅ๐ž๐ฌ and
1.5_๐ฆ๐ข๐ฅ๐ฅ๐ข๐จ๐ง_๐‰๐ž๐ฐ๐ฌ. They were also brutal, ๐ฌ๐š๐๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ๐ข๐œ_๐ ๐ฎ๐š๐ซ๐๐ฌ_๐š๐ญ_๐’๐จ๐›๐ข๐›๐จ๐ซ, ๐“๐ซ๐ž๐›๐ฅ๐ข๐ง๐ค๐š ๐š๐ง๐
๐จ๐ญ๐ก๐ž๐ซ ๐๐ž๐š๐ญ๐ก ๐œ๐š๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ฌ and ๐ ๐ฎ๐š๐ซ๐๐ฌ ๐จ๐ง ๐ญ๐ก๐ž ๐ญ๐ซ๐š๐ข๐ง๐ฌ ๐ฐ๐ก๐ข๐œ๐ก ๐ญ๐ซ๐š๐ง๐ฌ๐ฉ๐จ๐ซ๐ญ๐ž๐ ๐‰๐ž๐ฐ๐ฌ ๐ญ๐จ ๐ญ๐ก๐ž ๐๐ž๐š๐ญ๐ก ๐œ๐š๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ฌ.

Hitler's Nazi hoards also posed as civilized Europeans ...

Transgenders are not human.

fault of the fucking putina. If not traitor, then he is an idiot. You take
out the "๐—ฑ๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐—ถ๐˜€๐—ถ๐—ผ๐—ป_๐—ฐ๐—ฒ๐—ป๐˜๐—ฒ๐—ฟ๐˜€", from the very beginning. That's where the war
comes from, ๐—ป๐—ผ๐˜_๐˜๐—ต๐—ฒ_๐—ต๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฑ๐˜„๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐—ฒ.

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<9b164732-fea1-47b5-bb74-433ba3f92baen@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122043&group=sci.physics.relativity#122043

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4e63:0:b0:63c:fb67:a414 with SMTP id ec3-20020ad44e63000000b0063cfb67a414mr43412qvb.10.1691510982365;
Tue, 08 Aug 2023 09:09:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:8c28:b0:1bb:91fa:7aab with SMTP id
ec40-20020a0568708c2800b001bb91fa7aabmr21195oab.1.1691510981951; Tue, 08 Aug
2023 09:09:41 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 09:09:41 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:602:9b00:7c40:68ca:a9fa:fc98:55e5;
posting-account=9sfziQoAAAD_UD5NP4mC4DjcYPHqoIUc
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:602:9b00:7c40:68ca:a9fa:fc98:55e5
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <9b164732-fea1-47b5-bb74-433ba3f92baen@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
From: patdolan@comcast.net (patdolan)
Injection-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 16:09:42 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3572
 by: patdolan - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 16:09 UTC

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:53:51โ€ฏAM UTC-7, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:
>
> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory
>
> Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
>
> Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev
Wonderful Pentcho, just wonderful. I have spent time doodling the train car with the man inside bouncing two tennis balls off opposite walls and those balls arriving back at the thrower simultaneously. Thanks for the insight.

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122045&group=sci.physics.relativity#122045

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4f09:0:b0:635:eade:c68f with SMTP id fb9-20020ad44f09000000b00635eadec68fmr40964qvb.5.1691513184800;
Tue, 08 Aug 2023 09:46:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:208e:b0:3a7:4a41:1899 with SMTP id
s14-20020a056808208e00b003a74a411899mr186935oiw.9.1691513184537; Tue, 08 Aug
2023 09:46:24 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 09:46:24 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:646:100:e6a0:6d79:995e:2833:fb31;
posting-account=AZtzIAoAAABqtlvuXL6ZASWM0fV9f6PZ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:646:100:e6a0:6d79:995e:2833:fb31
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
From: l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com (Laurence Clark Crossen)
Injection-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 16:46:24 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3857
 by: Laurence Clark Cross - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 16:46 UTC

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:53:51โ€ฏAM UTC-7, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:
>
> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory
>
> Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
>
> Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev
It is true that many antirelativists are etherists. Yet, it was already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the velocity of the source, causing the Doppler effect. Then why do we frequently hear that the wave theory of light has light independent of the source? Michelson thought light was independent of the source in 1913 in his paper on rotating mirror interferometers.. Why would light be the only wave exempt from the law of physics that everything shares the velocity of the source?

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<d8303ffd-a892-435a-8627-9851e5b8e27cn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122046&group=sci.physics.relativity#122046

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a37:5a06:0:b0:76c:a8e1:fde1 with SMTP id o6-20020a375a06000000b0076ca8e1fde1mr1928qkb.11.1691514646944;
Tue, 08 Aug 2023 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:aca:1318:0:b0:3a4:1484:b3db with SMTP id
e24-20020aca1318000000b003a41484b3dbmr16361078oii.5.1691514646690; Tue, 08
Aug 2023 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!panix!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:646:100:e6a0:6d79:995e:2833:fb31;
posting-account=AZtzIAoAAABqtlvuXL6ZASWM0fV9f6PZ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:646:100:e6a0:6d79:995e:2833:fb31
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d8303ffd-a892-435a-8627-9851e5b8e27cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
From: l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com (Laurence Clark Crossen)
Injection-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 17:10:46 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3410
 by: Laurence Clark Cross - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 17:10 UTC

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:53:51โ€ฏAM UTC-7, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:
>
> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory
>
> Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
>
> Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev
I missed your posts for weeks now and so did some true believers.

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<kjfdotFk4otU2@mid.individual.net>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122051&group=sci.physics.relativity#122051

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: whodaat@void.nowgre.com (whodat)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 12:53:31 -0500
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <kjfdotFk4otU2@mid.individual.net>
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
<4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
X-Trace: individual.net NBmgeUdGbqvdoXHE39l+9wdOJkKscCVVhEhV8VC/eReF7igowG
Cancel-Lock: sha1:xJg2AiXC1nL1XMUYBrnWrQc7QkU= sha256:fFy6Cqxz8NZb1bGN8G0E2M5dVN8zJZ2px3mfJcnX/O0=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.14.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
 by: whodat - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 17:53 UTC

On 8/8/2023 11:46 AM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:53:51โ€ฏAM UTC-7, Pentcho Valev wrote:
>> Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:
>>
>> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory
>>
>> Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
>>
>> Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev
> It is true that many antirelativists are etherists. Yet, it
> was already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the velocity
> of the source, causing the Doppler effect.
That is not what causes the Doppler effect.
> Then why do we frequently hear that the wave theory of light
> has light independent of the source? Michelson thought light was
> independent of the source in 1913 in his paper on rotating mirror
> interferometers. Why would light be the only wave exempt from the
> law of physics that everything shares the velocity of the source?
You're certainly lost.

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<kjfdrjFk4otU3@mid.individual.net>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122052&group=sci.physics.relativity#122052

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: whodaat@void.nowgre.com (whodat)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 12:54:56 -0500
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <kjfdrjFk4otU3@mid.individual.net>
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
<d8303ffd-a892-435a-8627-9851e5b8e27cn@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
X-Trace: individual.net gSAhI4fkeNBaP3goa0rIYQgvWwnZJyQR7Rk6ePXgQCuQfHqK4A
Cancel-Lock: sha1:rkWWo59u3sQWo8U++ATxVGTCJOY= sha256:yed4ZbOH7RGNaPMU+E6jyKOB2q1cvaW+7lJ3e73sHuU=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.14.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <d8303ffd-a892-435a-8627-9851e5b8e27cn@googlegroups.com>
 by: whodat - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 17:54 UTC

On 8/8/2023 12:10 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:53:51โ€ฏAM UTC-7, Pentcho Valev wrote:
>> Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:
>>
>> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory
>>
>> Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
>>
>> Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev
> I missed your posts for weeks now and so did some true believers.
By that you must mean those who disbelieve your idols.

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<27c5ad40-4bf4-4c6b-8845-cdab47bdac19n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122056&group=sci.physics.relativity#122056

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a37:2cc7:0:b0:767:33a2:f4c2 with SMTP id s190-20020a372cc7000000b0076733a2f4c2mr5359qkh.5.1691518137950;
Tue, 08 Aug 2023 11:08:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:209a:b0:3a7:6251:985d with SMTP id
s26-20020a056808209a00b003a76251985dmr347207oiw.4.1691518137593; Tue, 08 Aug
2023 11:08:57 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 11:08:57 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <kjfdrjFk4otU3@mid.individual.net>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:646:100:e6a0:6d79:995e:2833:fb31;
posting-account=AZtzIAoAAABqtlvuXL6ZASWM0fV9f6PZ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:646:100:e6a0:6d79:995e:2833:fb31
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
<d8303ffd-a892-435a-8627-9851e5b8e27cn@googlegroups.com> <kjfdrjFk4otU3@mid.individual.net>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <27c5ad40-4bf4-4c6b-8845-cdab47bdac19n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
From: l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com (Laurence Clark Crossen)
Injection-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 18:08:57 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3757
 by: Laurence Clark Cross - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 18:08 UTC

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 10:56:28โ€ฏAM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> On 8/8/2023 12:10 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:53:51โ€ฏAM UTC-7, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> >> Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:
> >>
> >> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory
> >>
> >> Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
> >>
> >> Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev
>
> > I missed your posts for weeks now and so did some true believers.
> By that you must mean those who disbelieve your idols.
If you would stop drinking the Kool Aid...

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<d084eb56-85b8-4738-a5ec-5849a43ef19dn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122058&group=sci.physics.relativity#122058

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:f8f:b0:75b:3962:8db3 with SMTP id b15-20020a05620a0f8f00b0075b39628db3mr6161qkn.3.1691518315027;
Tue, 08 Aug 2023 11:11:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:a88e:b0:1bb:619a:5047 with SMTP id
eb14-20020a056870a88e00b001bb619a5047mr116675oab.9.1691518314673; Tue, 08 Aug
2023 11:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 11:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=165.225.216.174; posting-account=mI08PwoAAAA3Jr-Q4vb20x7RXVfSK_rd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.225.216.174
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com> <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d084eb56-85b8-4738-a5ec-5849a43ef19dn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
From: prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com (Prokaryotic Capase Homolog)
Injection-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 18:11:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1525
 by: Prokaryotic Capase H - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 18:11 UTC

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:46:26โ€ฏAM UTC-5, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:

> Yet, it was already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the
> velocity of the source, causing the Doppler effect.

Huh?

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<kjfm7nFlhnbU1@mid.individual.net>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122067&group=sci.physics.relativity#122067

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: whodaat@void.nowgre.com (whodat)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 15:17:56 -0500
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <kjfm7nFlhnbU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
<d8303ffd-a892-435a-8627-9851e5b8e27cn@googlegroups.com>
<kjfdrjFk4otU3@mid.individual.net>
<27c5ad40-4bf4-4c6b-8845-cdab47bdac19n@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
X-Trace: individual.net b/4rr1tb5ENpOPNx9KeBcAVAovvIRQpqf073cTJyaN5nwYwybJ
Cancel-Lock: sha1:JocGfcn4UiyTi6hYj3L1LMkb6nY= sha256:2u7HRCLBvHobCZuIZdCq2t9sH9WjCicVcJ7/B6lzGMI=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.14.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <27c5ad40-4bf4-4c6b-8845-cdab47bdac19n@googlegroups.com>
 by: whodat - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 20:17 UTC

On 8/8/2023 1:08 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 10:56:28โ€ฏAM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
>> On 8/8/2023 12:10 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:53:51โ€ฏAM UTC-7, Pentcho Valev wrote:
>>>> Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:
>>>>
>>>> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory
>>>>
>>>> Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
>>>>
>>>> Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev
>>
>>> I missed your posts for weeks now and so did some true believers.
>> By that you must mean those who disbelieve your idols.
> If you would stop drinking the Kool Aid...
Are you telling me your Kool Aid is somehow better?
Believe that whydontcha?

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<kjfmidFlhnbU3@mid.individual.net>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122069&group=sci.physics.relativity#122069

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: whodaat@void.nowgre.com (whodat)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2023 15:23:38 -0500
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <kjfmidFlhnbU3@mid.individual.net>
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
<4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
<d084eb56-85b8-4738-a5ec-5849a43ef19dn@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net eyWD1MKYVDVuFzt9ZqkrFgYBD3/LYbXpul20r5R6M8Xvbo5weF
Cancel-Lock: sha1:9sVKNMcium5/glem1E0Hmx03jvI= sha256:4ge0Wd6YmQOKNnCnZFOpIOmU4Jx15xSGOa0JjXfzodw=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.14.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <d084eb56-85b8-4738-a5ec-5849a43ef19dn@googlegroups.com>
 by: whodat - Tue, 8 Aug 2023 20:23 UTC

On 8/8/2023 1:11 PM, Prokaryotic Capase Homolog wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:46:26โ€ฏAM UTC-5, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>
>> Yet, it was already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the
>> velocity of the source, causing the Doppler effect.
>
> Huh?

That's why he usually doesn't give arguments in support of his
beliefs, because most of the time he gets it completely wrong.

Laurence just argues and snipes.

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<uavim5$3s65o$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122086&group=sci.physics.relativity#122086

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED.176-93-250-109.bb.dnainternet.fi!not-for-mail
From: mikko.levanto@iki.fi (Mikko)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 11:27:49 +0300
Organization: -
Message-ID: <uavim5$3s65o$1@dont-email.me>
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com> <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="176-93-250-109.bb.dnainternet.fi:176.93.250.109";
logging-data="4069560"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
 by: Mikko - Wed, 9 Aug 2023 08:27 UTC

On 2023-08-08 16:46:24 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said:

> It is true that many antirelativists are etherists. Yet, it was
> already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the velocity of
> the source, causing the Doppler effect. Then why do we frequently
> hear that the wave theory of light has light independent of the
> source?

In 1850 it was generally thought that light moves in aether as
sound moves in air. If so, then, according to the understanding
at the time, the motion of both light and sound had to be
independent of the motion of the source. Both were also seen
analogous to waves in water surface, which also move independently
of the source.

That motion of water surface waves or sound is independent of the
motion of the source is fairly easy to check experimentally. To
test the same about light is much harder but can be (and has been)
done.

Mikko

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<1o-dneoDx59Go0v5nZ2dnZfqlJxj4p2d@giganews.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122278&group=sci.physics.relativity#122278

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer01.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr3.iad1.usenetexpress.com!69.80.99.26.MISMATCH!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:59:55 +0000
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 08:59:55 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com> <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
From: tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net (Tom Roberts)
In-Reply-To: <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1o-dneoDx59Go0v5nZ2dnZfqlJxj4p2d@giganews.com>
Lines: 15
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-PzOe4YjgmEL57UkRYC2+Nu3tC6WYygSpxXI+54pXOunZGKnvUAlUlX5EV1BOBWGuTtnPUkd+b1LPJh6!Fb5G61kZ6upsV+aOcCcG7vwP7QG+VQl4auS/8yBxQFNXczN1x2V815mVhaqvRikbUQ7Qzfjl9Iqa!Cg==
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Received-Bytes: 2134
 by: Tom Roberts - Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:59 UTC

On 8/8/23 11:46 AM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> it was already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the velocity
> of the source, causing the Doppler effect.

You just keep displaying your personal ignorance of basic physics. Sound
waves DO NOT "share the velocity of the source" -- the speed of sound
waves in air is ~343 m/s RELATIVE TO THE AIR, independent of the speed
of the source (relative to the air).

As it does not happen, that cannot be the "cause of the Doppler effect".

Grow up. LEARN SOMETHING about the subject before attempting to write
about it.

Tom Roberts

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<kjn4fkFrut0U1@mid.individual.net>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122292&group=sci.physics.relativity#122292

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: athel.cb@gmail.com (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 18:04:02 +0200
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <kjn4fkFrut0U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com> <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com> <1o-dneoDx59Go0v5nZ2dnZfqlJxj4p2d@giganews.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 3RRcsFXUXI6Q3kWfmjiPJQsoOcR0kt2p68LTzVzKWZl61vGAhx
Cancel-Lock: sha1:4aC2q2uefnHfNBQbLW3YnDXeBhs= sha256:njdjjSz4fIPA1OCm47a2lbUFNAWB8Foh8Ta+SdY3T60=
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Fri, 11 Aug 2023 16:04 UTC

On 2023-08-11 13:59:55 +0000, Tom Roberts said:

> On 8/8/23 11:46 AM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>> it was already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the velocity of
>> the source, causing the Doppler effect.
>
> You just keep displaying your personal ignorance of basic physics. Sound
> waves DO NOT "share the velocity of the source" -- the speed of sound
> waves in air is ~343 m/s RELATIVE TO THE AIR, independent of the speed
> of the source (relative to the air).
>
> As it does not happen, that cannot be the "cause of the Doppler effect".
>
> Grow up. LEARN SOMETHING about the subject before attempting to write
> about it.

That's not his way. Remember how he "reviewed" a book (Cosmology in
Crisis?: The Fallacy of Universal Expansion by Kenneth Gonder) at
Amazon without bothering to read it first. This "review" has been
edited since I mentioned the original version, posted on 8th July,
which read as follows: "I just bought it, but I already know it's good
because I read a previous book by him. Thumbs up!"

--
athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<1qfb85f.1tipb9f1am3xdoN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122294&group=sci.physics.relativity#122294

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 18:08:27 +0200
Organization: De Ster
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <1qfb85f.1tipb9f1am3xdoN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com> <4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com> <1o-dneoDx59Go0v5nZ2dnZfqlJxj4p2d@giganews.com>
Reply-To: jjlax32@xs4all.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d64b8ad3bf5226654bbda518c644529c";
logging-data="962038"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18RAOEH4ndhsiubwcMD0+/5JFVU1124uXA="
User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.8.5 (ea919cf118) (Mac OS 10.12.6)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:LD+D6WjrH1rVis3k1fUjU1KK7bE=
 by: J. J. Lodder - Fri, 11 Aug 2023 16:08 UTC

Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On 8/8/23 11:46 AM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > it was already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the velocity
> > of the source, causing the Doppler effect.
>
> You just keep displaying your personal ignorance of basic physics. Sound
> waves DO NOT "share the velocity of the source" -- the speed of sound
> waves in air is ~343 m/s RELATIVE TO THE AIR, independent of the speed
> of the source (relative to the air).

Indeed. The first reliable measurements of the speeds of sound
were done by firing cannon on hilltops. (in suitable weather)

Observers noted the delay between seen muzzle flash and heard sound.
The delay didn't depend on their orientation with respect to the cannon.

Jan

FYA: a 'noon gun' is still fired daily at Kaapstad, South Africa,
every day since 1806.
They are said to be the oldest still functioning guns in the world.
Captains wanting to synchronise their chronometers with the observatory
had their telescopes trained on it, rather than wait for the sound.

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<d896b0e0-7a69-45ba-8f46-62c009a8b9ddn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122407&group=sci.physics.relativity#122407

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:ae9:df84:0:b0:767:f116:1901 with SMTP id t126-20020ae9df84000000b00767f1161901mr67127qkf.11.1691870175907;
Sat, 12 Aug 2023 12:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e744:b0:1b8:95fc:d18 with SMTP id
p4-20020a170902e74400b001b895fc0d18mr2143494plf.8.1691870175398; Sat, 12 Aug
2023 12:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 12:56:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1qfb85f.1tipb9f1am3xdoN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:1c0:c803:ab80:951e:cc20:880c:da34;
posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:1c0:c803:ab80:951e:cc20:880c:da34
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
<4f6067d7-04c2-4629-9427-f30229508be9n@googlegroups.com> <1o-dneoDx59Go0v5nZ2dnZfqlJxj4p2d@giganews.com>
<1qfb85f.1tipb9f1am3xdoN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d896b0e0-7a69-45ba-8f46-62c009a8b9ddn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
From: mitchrae3323@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 19:56:15 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2943
 by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Sat, 12 Aug 2023 19:56 UTC

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:08:31โ€ฏAM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Tom Roberts <tjrobe...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > On 8/8/23 11:46 AM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> > > it was already known circa 1850 that sound waves share the velocity
> > > of the source, causing the Doppler effect.
> >
> > You just keep displaying your personal ignorance of basic physics. Sound
> > waves DO NOT "share the velocity of the source" -- the speed of sound
> > waves in air is ~343 m/s RELATIVE TO THE AIR, independent of the speed
> > of the source (relative to the air).
> Indeed. The first reliable measurements of the speeds of sound
> were done by firing cannon on hilltops. (in suitable weather)
>
> Observers noted the delay between seen muzzle flash and heard sound.
> The delay didn't depend on their orientation with respect to the cannon.
>
> Jan
>
> FYA: a 'noon gun' is still fired daily at Kaapstad, South Africa,
> every day since 1806.
> They are said to be the oldest still functioning guns in the world.
> Captains wanting to synchronise their chronometers with the observatory
> had their telescopes trained on it, rather than wait for the sound.

Relativists?
Look at retrograde motion. Begin to move yourself on your world line
and there is an equal but opposite appearance around you.
How did you give the other frame your motion? No. It is just
an appearance of it. The real creates that.

Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

<6ddc6066-cd47-4c29-880f-abfb01b2f158n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://news.novabbs.org/tech/article-flat.php?id=122578&group=sci.physics.relativity#122578

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4d44:0:b0:63d:557f:b4c9 with SMTP id m4-20020ad44d44000000b0063d557fb4c9mr137327qvm.3.1692019786863; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 06:29:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:c92:b0:686:9385:4648 with SMTP id a18-20020a056a000c9200b0068693854648mr4486053pfv.3.1692019786268; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 06:29:46 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr3.iad1.usenetexpress.com!69.80.99.18.MISMATCH!border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 06:29:45 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.192.70.249; posting-account=W7gfVQoAAACRq_zh4C6vXoE20aUFnnXp
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.192.70.249
References: <226af45f-1b9b-4a39-9abc-60b88eaac79cn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <6ddc6066-cd47-4c29-880f-abfb01b2f158n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate
From: setoken47@gmail.com (Ken Seto)
Injection-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 13:29:46 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 37
 by: Ken Seto - Mon, 14 Aug 2023 13:29 UTC

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 4:53:51โ€ฏAM UTC-4, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Antirelativists repudiate any aspect of Einstein's theory except for his 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate. Actually, they worship this postulate. Why? Because they are all etherists and Einstein "borrowed" the postulate from the ether theory:
>
> Albert Einstein: "I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory
>
> Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768
>
> Pentcho Valev https://twitter.com/pentcho_valev

Einstein failed to come up with the idea of wave-packets instead of photons particles. Wave-packets are formed by the absolute motion of the source in a structured ether called the E-Matrix. Read my book "Model Mechanics:The Final Theory" in the Library of books in Amazon. .


tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: Why Antirelativists Worship Einstein's 1905 Second Postulate

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor