After six years on this group, using Google, I salute you all (friends and foes).

It has been fun for me to stand as a fierce antirelativist, and engage in some serious and not than serious discussions with most of you.

I'm not a fanatic of science, even though I'm a strong supporter of technology,
but the good technology, not the commercial one that flooded the world in the
last 18 years (mainly smartphones, social media SW and biased Internet sites).

Even when I learned some new things, most of the posts helped me to
enhance my belief that relativity is a pseudo-science, being mostly a cult.

No firm experimental data has achieved to confirm SR and, specially GR
since 1919. Relativism was a movement that opposed positivism in terms
of any intellectual activity, and was supported by different actors in many
fields, in particular in physics.

Without a rational base for its development through the first generation of
relativists, after its first 20 years, a new generation adopted it due to many
different influences, exerted from top to down. As years passed, after WWII,
the establishment developed its own mechanisms to fight any questions to
it, in particular since the 60's.

Anyway, I don't care about it, as the influence of relativity has been confined
to cosmology (giving to it mathematical tools to play) and particle physics,
neither of which contributed in nothing to the development of this world in 70 years.

Yet, relativity is useful as a subject to trigger supporters by contradicting any
of the dogmas it has built in. It's very entertaining to troll relativists, which
behave as snowflakes.

Anyway, Godspeed to every one of you.

On 2/16/24 3:23 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>
> No firm experimental data has achieved to confirm SR [...]

I THINK the time dilation equation has been accurately verified via
measurement, hasn't it? That certainly contradicts Newtonian physics,
doesn't it?

> On 2/16/24 3:23 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> >
> > No firm experimental data has achieved to confirm SR [...]
>
> I THINK the time dilation equation has been accurately verified via
> measurement, hasn't it? That certainly contradicts Newtonian physics,
> doesn't it?

Indeed. In fact one can use it as a substitute for one of the postulates,
I believe. There's also E = mc^2/sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2), which is verified in
multitudinous particle accelerators daily. And the speed of light being
independent of the motion of source and receiver. Perhaps even more
important is the falsification of Newtonian physics.

On 2/16/2024 5:23 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> Subject: My farewell to sci.physics.relativity, which will be closed on Feb 22, 2024.

Meanwhile, I and many others will continue to participate in
sci.physics.relativity long after Feb 22. Bye!

gharnagel wrote:

> independent of the motion of source and receiver. Perhaps even more
> important is the falsification of Newtonian physics.

Only such an ignorant idiot can believe such
an impudent lie, Gary.

Mike Fontenot wrote:

> On 2/16/24 3:23 PM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>>
>> No firm experimental data has achieved to confirm SR [...]

> I THINK the time dilation equation has been accurately verified via
> measurement, hasn't it?

You THINK because you're a brainwashed idiot.
And in the meantime in the real world forbidden
by idiots like you "improper" clocks of GPS and
TAI keep measuring t'=t, just like all serious
clocks always did.

That certainly contradicts Newtonian physics,
> doesn't it?

Newtonian physics has never given the prediction
that no idiot will THINK it is wrong.

Lying Wozzie wrote:
>
> gharnagel wrote:
> >
> > the speed of light is independent of the motion of source and receiver.
> > Perhaps even more important is the falsification of Newtonian physics.
>
> Only such an ignorant idiot can believe such an impudent lie, Gary.

Only a self-brainwashed deluded nutjob like Wozzie-boy would post year after
year after year that t' = t in the GPS proves Newtonian physics when he's
been told year after year after year that the GPS clocks have been adjusted
to run slow so they keep time with clocks on earth. Surely he knows that
clocks can be adjusted, doesn't he? Well, maybe not. He IS delusional,
after all.

He's been shown the proof of this many times:

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.12942/lrr-2003-1.pdf

Here's a bit from the link since Wozzie-fool is too lazy to look it up:

"These clocks have gravitational and motional frequency shifts which are so
large that, without carefully accounting for numerous relativistic effects,
the system would not work."

Wozzie-crank doesn't believe anything that disagrees with his psychotic
fantasy world. He never compares his delusions with the real world so he
sits in his asylum all day ranting unconvincingly lame posts year after year
after year.

gharnagel wrote:

> Lying Wozzie wrote:
>>
>> gharnagel wrote:
>> >
>> > the speed of light is independent of the motion of source and receiver.
>> > Perhaps even more important is the falsification of Newtonian physics.
>>
>> Only such an ignorant idiot can believe such an impudent lie, Gary.

> Only a self-brainwashed deluded nutjob like Wozzie-boy would post year after
> year after year that t' = t in the GPS proves Newtonian physics

A lie, of course, as expected from a Shit's doggie.
I was never saying that it proves something.
Oppositely, you and your fellow doggies claim and insist
that t'=t on GPS satellites proves Newtonian physics
is wrong.

when he's
> been told year after year after year that the GPS clocks have been adjusted
> to run

Did Newton's theory, allegedly falsified by them,
somehow claim that clocks won't be adjusted, poor
halfbrain?

slow so they keep time with clocks on earth. Surely he knows that
> clocks can be adjusted, doesn't he?

It was actually your idiot guru that didn't notice that.

He IS delusional,
> after all.

> He's been shown the proof of this many times:

> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.12942/lrr-2003-1.pdf

> Here's a bit from the link since Wozzie-fool is too lazy to look it up:

> "These clocks have gravitational and motional frequency shifts which are so
> large that, without carefully accounting for numerous relativistic effects,
> the system would not work."

Take this impudent lie and put it straight into
your dumb, fanatic ass, where it belongs. The
Shit is predicting no adjustment, no corrections.
If you insist otherwise, show me a quoting where
your idiot guru says anything about such things.

Richard Hertz:
> After six years on this group, using Google, I salute you all (friends and foes).
>
> It has been fun for me to stand as a fierce antirelativist, and engage in some serious and not than serious discussions with most of you.
>
> I'm not a fanatic of science, even though I'm a strong supporter of technology,
> but the good technology, not the commercial one that flooded the world in the
> last 18 years (mainly smartphones, social media SW and biased Internet sites).
>
> Even when I learned some new things, most of the posts helped me to
> enhance my belief that relativity is a pseudo-science, being mostly a cult.
>
> No firm experimental data has achieved to confirm SR and, specially GR
> since 1919. Relativism was a movement that opposed positivism in terms
> of any intellectual activity, and was supported by different actors in many
> fields, in particular in physics.
>
> Without a rational base for its development through the first generation of
> relativists, after its first 20 years, a new generation adopted it due to many
> different influences, exerted from top to down. As years passed, after WWII,
> the establishment developed its own mechanisms to fight any questions to
> it, in particular since the 60's.
>
> Anyway, I don't care about it, as the influence of relativity has been confined
> to cosmology (giving to it mathematical tools to play) and particle physics,
> neither of which contributed in nothing to the development of this world in 70 years.
>
> Yet, relativity is useful as a subject to trigger supporters by contradicting any
> of the dogmas it has built in. It's very entertaining to troll relativists, which
> behave as snowflakes.
>
> Anyway, Godspeed to every one of you.
>

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Le 17/02/2024 à 00:49, Mike Fontenot a écrit :
> I THINK the time dilation equation has been accurately verified via
> measurement, hasn't it? That certainly contradicts Newtonian physics,
> doesn't it?

Yes, the dilation of chronotropy has been verified experimentally and
today no longer poses a theoretical or experimental problem.
There exists, in the universe, a strange physical particularity which is
the reciprocal dilation of durations by permutation of frame of reference.
Each observer will notice that the internal mechanism of the other watch
beats more slowly.
A strange paradox will then arise: “But it’s absurd, two travelers
cannot return, each younger than the other.”
The resolution of the paradox is, however, very simple. The French (Henri
Poincaré and Richard Hachel, the true fathers of special relativity),
never said: "Time passes less quickly on the other watch" but "the
internal mechanism of the other watch beats less quickly".
It's not the same thing.
It is this confusion between concepts that makes us believe we see a
paradox.
The equation for the relativity of chronotropy between frames of
reference is:
To'=To/sqrt(1-Vo²/c²).
The equation between the particulars in each frame of reference is:
t'=t.(1+cosµ.Vo/c)/sqrt(1-Vo²/c²)
It's not the same equations.
They should not be confused.
In the second case, that of individuals, we must obviously take the second
equation. There is then no more problem. Terrence is 30 years old, Stella
is really 18.

R.H.

--
<http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=Js-kpukYjMM9oFfhxEr2k_xKEcE@jntp>

Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:

> After six years on this group, using Google, I salute you all (friends and
> foes).
>
> It has been fun for me to stand as a fierce antirelativist, and engage in
> some serious and not than serious discussions with most of you.

How can you expect to be taken seriously if you are not even capable
of arranging for your own usenet access?

Jan

Richard Hachel wrote:

> Le 17/02/2024 à 00:49, Mike Fontenot a écrit :
>> I THINK the time dilation equation has been accurately verified via
>> measurement, hasn't it? That certainly contradicts Newtonian physics,
>> doesn't it?

> Yes, the dilation of chronotropy has been verified experimentally and
> today no longer poses a theoretical or experimental problem.

And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your bunch of idiots
"improper" GPS or TAI clocks keep measuring t'=t, just like all serious
clocks always did.

J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
>> After six years on this group, using Google, I salute you all (friends
>> and foes).
>> It has been fun for me to stand as a fierce antirelativist, and engage
>> in some serious and not than serious discussions with most of you.
>
> How can you expect to be taken seriously if you are not even capable of
> arranging for your own usenet access?

so true indeed. These relativists unable to tie their shoes. Like french,
polakia an romania, imbeciles. Fucking idiots. With proofs. And liars.
Liars sons of the bitches.

Well, it's not like Ukrainians are expected to fly these planes either.
They will hide in Poland and Roumania, briefly touch down in Lviv, and fly
to their mission. Return (for those who will be able to return) would be
in reverse. This is how NATO thinks they will "shield" themselves from
being accused of being a direct party to the conflict.

Ukrainian pilots have been trained by the US and most US citizens are
unable to drive a car with a manual gearbox..... Go figure.

𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗲_𝗮𝗱𝗺𝗶𝘁𝘀_𝘁𝗼_‘𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗽𝗹𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀’_𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵_𝗪𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗻_𝗷𝗲𝘁𝘀
An Air Force spokesman has poured cold water on hopes that Kiev could
operate multiple types of warplanes
https://r%74.com/russia/592692-ukraine-complication-western-jets/

the fucking amrica, deeply deranged because the Mother Russia, the west
want to kill, puts a caught cia asset in prison for life for treason.

what the fuck is his whore of a "𝘄𝗶𝗳𝗲" doing, at the capitalist "security"
whore conference?? Is a monarchy "democracy" to the collective west??
𝗠𝘆_𝗯𝘂𝘁𝘁, his fucking wife attending a conference for "𝘀𝗲𝗰𝘂𝗿𝗶𝘁𝘆"!!

also the fucking poor argentina puts a 𝗸𝗵𝗮𝘇𝗮𝗿_𝗴𝗼𝘆 IMF liberal capitalist
slave in power, as "president". What the fuck is there to expect??

𝗣𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘁𝘆_𝗶𝗻_𝗔𝗿𝗴𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗮_𝘀𝗼𝗮𝗿𝘀_𝘁𝗼_𝗿𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗿𝗱_𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵_–_𝘀𝘁𝘂𝗱𝘆
‘Shock therapy’ reforms have propelled prices for basic goods higher and
led to a sharp drop in purchasing power, a new study shows
https://r%74.com/business/592676-argentina-poverty-record-high/

this fucking planet gone full banana.

On 2/18/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 17/02/2024 à 00:49, Mike Fontenot a écrit :
>> I THINK the time dilation equation has been accurately verified via
>> measurement, hasn't it?  That certainly contradicts Newtonian physics,
>> doesn't it?
>
> Yes, the dilation of chronotropy has been verified experimentally and
> today no longer poses a theoretical or experimental problem.

The rate of a human heartbeat is irrelevant.

> There exists, in the universe, a strange physical particularity which is
> the reciprocal dilation of durations by permutation of frame of reference.
> Each observer will notice that the internal mechanism of the other watch
> beats more slowly.
> A strange paradox will then arise: “But it’s absurd, two travelers
> cannot return, each younger than the other.”

That involves a turnaround and return of at least one traveler. Mutual
time dilation isn't involved at the turnaround (acceleration) and it is
this that leads to the twin paradox, not mutual time dilation itself.

> The resolution of the paradox is, however, very simple. The French
> (Henri Poincaré and Richard Hachel, the true fathers of special
> relativity),

Self awarded titles are worth how many crackpot points?

> never said: "Time passes less quickly on the other watch"
> but "the internal mechanism of the other watch beats less quickly".
> It's not the same thing.

Which is wrong. It is a projection effect. Each watch ticks at its usual
rate.

> It is this confusion between concepts that makes us believe we see a
> paradox.
> The equation for the relativity of chronotropy between frames of
> reference is:

Medical information about the human heart rate is irrelevant.

Volney wrote:

is wrong. It is a projection effect. Each watch ticks at its usual
> rate.

It's true for a perfect world, where every gedanken
observer is following the madness of your idiot guru,
stupid Mike.
But it's false for the real GPS.

Le 19/02/2024 à 19:38, Volney a écrit :
>> Yes, the dilation of chronotropy has been verified experimentally and
>> today no longer poses a theoretical or experimental problem.
>
> The rate of a human heartbeat is irrelevant.

No connection.
When you don't like your dog, you say he has rabies.
When we don't like Hachel, we say that his terms or his words are improper
and non-compliant.
It doesn't matter, I'm strong enough to overlook this kind of bullshit
that people throw at me.
Chronotropy is the way a watch measures time.
This is an extremely important term for understanding relativistic physics
where time is relative.
We like it or we don't like it.
I'll move on.

R.H.

Le 19/02/2024 à 19:38, Volney a écrit :
> That involves a turnaround and return of at least one traveler. Mutual
> time dilation isn't involved at the turnaround (acceleration) and it is
> this that leads to the twin paradox, not mutual time dilation itself.

Sir, I beg you to shut up and stop talking nonsense. The U-turn has
nothing, nothing at all to do with the explanation of Langevin's paradox.
It's just dust under the rug voiced by physicists, unable to understand
what's really going on.
The time differences are mainly DURING the Galilean phases. But I don't
think you can understand it, as you seem so locked in your stupid and
contradictory dogmas.

R.H.

Le 19/02/2024 à 19:38, Volney a écrit :
>
>> never said: "Time passes less quickly on the other watch"
>> but "the internal mechanism of the other watch beats less quickly".
>> It's not the same thing.
>
> Which is wrong. It is a projection effect. Each watch ticks at its usual
> rate.

Please stop.

Les meilleures plaisanteries sont les plus courtes.

R.H.

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 1:51:26 AM UTC-6, MaciejWozniak wrote:
> > independent of the motion of source and receiver. Perhaps even more
> > important is the falsification of Newtonian physics.
> Only such an ignorant idiot can believe such
> an impudent lie, Gary.

Translation: "[Squeal]" (The sound of all the balding Boomers USENET 'characters' getting dredged out).

Ok, Boomer. Buh-bye.

Richard Hachel wrote:

> Le 19/02/2024 à 19:38, Volney a écrit :
>>> never said: "Time passes less quickly on the other watch" but "the
>>> internal mechanism of the other watch beats less quickly".
>>> It's not the same thing.
>>
>> Which is wrong. It is a projection effect. Each watch ticks at its
>> usual rate.
>
> Please stop. Les meilleures plaisanteries sont les plus courtes.

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with Covid-19. Official NHS documents confirm that staff were ordered to
administer Midazolam; […]

𝗧𝗵𝗼𝘂𝘀𝗮𝗻𝗱𝘀_𝗼𝗳_𝗧𝗿𝘂𝗰𝗸𝗲𝗿𝘀_𝗩𝗼𝘄_𝗧𝗼_𝗕𝗼𝘆𝗰𝗼𝘁𝘁_𝗡𝗲𝘄_𝗬𝗼𝗿𝗸_𝗔𝗳𝘁𝗲𝗿_‘𝗣𝗼𝗹𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗹_𝗣𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗲𝗰𝘂𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻’_𝗼𝗳_𝗗𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹𝗱_𝗧𝗿𝘂𝗺𝗽
American truck drivers are vowing to boycott New York City and bring the
city to its knees after a New York judge handed former President Trump a
penalty of $355 million plus interest on his […]

Richard Hachel wrote:

> Le 19/02/2024 à 19:38, Volney a écrit :
>> That involves a turnaround and return of at least one traveler. Mutual
>> time dilation isn't involved at the turnaround (acceleration) and it is
>> this that leads to the twin paradox, not mutual time dilation itself.
>
> Sir, I beg you to shut up and stop talking nonsense. The U-turn has
> nothing, nothing at all to do with the explanation of Langevin's
> paradox.
> It's just dust under the rug voiced by physicists, unable to understand
> what's really going on.

lol

𝗢𝗽𝘁𝗶𝗺𝗶𝘀𝗺_𝗼𝗻_𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗲_𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗳𝗹𝗶𝗰𝘁_𝘄𝗮𝘀_‘𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗺𝗮𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲’_𝗼𝗿_‘𝗱𝗲𝗹𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹’_–_𝗡𝗬𝗧
Western speculation that Kiev was on the verge of victory has reportedly
given way to “despair and hedging”
https://r%74.com/news/592704-ukraine-allies-optmism-fades/

You only needed to look at the world map once to see how this would end
from the very start. Why is the world full of idiots?
Our brains 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗯𝗲𝗲𝗻 𝘀𝗵𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗽𝗮𝘀𝘁 10,000 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘀, one assumes that is due
to "civilization." And our brains appear 𝘁𝗼 𝗯𝗲 𝘀𝗵𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗲𝘅𝗽𝗼𝗻𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗶𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗰𝗲𝗻𝘁𝘂𝗿𝘆.
Once upon a time we carried huge amounts of knowledge within our own
heads; now people don't know how to tell time from a clock that has hands.

Once I find 500,000 more recruits, “We will pay with our lives throughout
2024 to give your defense industries time 𝘁𝗼 𝗿𝗮𝗺𝗽 𝘂𝗽 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗱𝘂𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻.” This guy is
mentally sick.

To be clear, it's not really 'Americans' per se. It's a violent, sadistic,
cabal insurgency that used the electoral system to gain power in the
United States. 𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝗲𝗼-𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗭𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗶𝘀𝘁 𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗼𝗹𝗼𝗴𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗹 𝗰𝗮𝗯𝗮𝗹. Many, many good and
descent 'American' people completely reject what their country is doing
regarding it's 'belligerence, terror, and provocations' being set up and
carried out around the world.

> Le 19/02/2024 à 19:38, Volney a écrit :
> > That involves a turnaround and return of at least one traveler. Mutual
> > time dilation isn't involved at the turnaround (acceleration) and it is
> > this that leads to the twin paradox, not mutual time dilation itself.
>
> Sir, I beg you to shut up and stop talking nonsense. The U-turn has
> nothing, nothing at all to do with the explanation of Langevin's paradox.
> It's just dust under the rug voiced by physicists, unable to understand
> what's really going on.
> The time differences are mainly DURING the Galilean phases.

Both of you are correct ... and incorrect. Suppose we have an observer, A,
at earth and another observer, B, at the point where the ship stops, before
it starts speeding back to earth:

_____________________ S --> v
A ____________________ B

The time on A's stopwatch reads tA = L/v, where L is the distance between A
and B. The time on S's stopwatch reads L'/v, where L' = L/gamma. Okay?

Now S stops instantaneously at B (he's made of sterner stuff than us humans).
He now agrees with B that the distance back to A is L and not L', but his
watch still reads L'/v and B's watch still reads L/v (it's synchronized with
A's watch). Half the turnaround has been completed.

So S starts back to A at velocity -v. Suddenly, the distance to A is L'
again, but A's time has changed due to the new frame S is "at rest" in.
A's position is now xA' = -L' + vt' and tA' = gamma(L'/v + vL'/c^2). You
can determine by inspection that this is NOT L/v. True, this isn't time
dilation, as Volney correctly says, it's relativity of simultaneity, but
it DOES figure into the problem, so it must not be ignored if you switch
frames. As David Morin says, you shouldn't switch frames unless you know
EXACTLY what you're doing.

So if we don't switch frames, there is no RoS, the turnaround doesn't
matter and time dilation is just 2L/v/gamma. The problem (and the
"paradox") originates with the switch to the ship's frame and claiming
that A is in motion, but forgetting about RoS.

> But I don't think you can understand it, as you seem so locked in your
> stupid and contradictory dogmas.
>
> R.H.

I'm afraid a lot of misunderstanding happens when the problem steps aren't
carefully explained.

On 2/19/2024 2:56 PM, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 19/02/2024 à 19:38, Volney a écrit :
>>> Yes, the dilation of chronotropy has been verified experimentally and
>>> today no longer poses a theoretical or experimental problem.
>>
>> The rate of a human heartbeat is irrelevant.
>
> No connection.

That's correct. You shouldn't be using medical words in relativity
discussions.

> When you don't like your dog, you say he has rabies.

No, I say my dog has rabies only if he has rabies.

> When we don't like Hachel, we say that his terms or his words are
> improper and non-compliant.

Speaking in the third person? Your terms are improper regardless of
whether anyone likes or dislikes you.

> Chronotropy is the way a watch measures time.

No it is not. It is a medical term concerning heart rate.

> This is an extremely important term for understanding relativistic
> physics where time is relative.

Medical terms involving the heart rate are irrelevant when discussing
relativity.

On 2/19/2024 3:02 PM, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 19/02/2024 à 19:38, Volney a écrit :
>>
>>> never said: "Time passes less quickly on the other watch" but "the
>>> internal mechanism of the other watch beats less quickly".
>>> It's not the same thing.
>>
>> Which is wrong. It is a projection effect. Each watch ticks at its
>> usual rate.
>
> Please stop.

Stop what? I am correcting your mistake.
>
> Les meilleures plaisanteries sont les plus courtes.
>
Why are you telling us never to answer an anonymous letter?

Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyway, Godspeed to every one of you.

May I recommend that you play Louis Armstrong's 'Just a Gigolo',
to get in the right mood,
with particular attention to the last line?

Jan