On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:02:26 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>
>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher

Too much talking for too little circuit.

On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 07:24:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:02:26 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>
>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>
>Too much talking for too little circuit.

Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!

On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 16:25:31 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 07:24:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:02:26 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>
>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>
>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>
>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!

Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
sorts of stuff.

On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Feb 2024 08:54:12 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <fllcsilrqje0tu8iarhhl37gr1c5emcoo8@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 16:25:31 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 07:24:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:02:26 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>
>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>
>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>
>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>
>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>sorts of stuff.

I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?

And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!

Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.

On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 17:16:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Feb 2024 08:54:12 -0800) it happened John Larkin
><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <fllcsilrqje0tu8iarhhl37gr1c5emcoo8@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 16:25:31 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 07:24:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:02:26 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>
>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>
>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>
>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>sorts of stuff.
>
>I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>
>And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!

Almost all our products were simulated in LT Spice, and that steered
or verified the designs.

>
>Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.

We don't prototype many products; they are too complex. It's more
efficient to design, simulate, review, and manufacture. If the
engineering is done right, you can sell rev A. I nkow of one giant
organization that formally plans for six PCB spins before production.
Why bother to be careful on the first few?

We do breadboard little subcircuits if we're not sure how they will
behave. Data sheets can be vague. Dremeling is fun.

Hers's a product sim.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gpjalf4g0c5m6qlg2j6ce/PMA_Sim_4.jpg?rlkey=8bh9cjpl5e3ltqm683hss1ufm&raw=1

I did this all analog, in LT Spice, to get the dynamics right. Most of
this will actually be done in an FPGA.

Jan Panteltje wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>
>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>
>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>
>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>sorts of stuff.
>
> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>
> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>
> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.

Tis true the Spice won't help you
With a simple radio set:

<https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
<https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>

No worries all's not nyet
Spice fiddling's a safe bet...

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

On a sunny day (Fri, 9 Feb 2024 23:29:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened "Don"
<g@crcomp.net> wrote in <20240209a@crcomp.net>:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>
>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>
>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>
>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>sorts of stuff.
>>
>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>
>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>
>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>
>Tis true the Spice won't help you
>With a simple radio set:
>
><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>

That is very nice, crystal earphopne,
I have some from ebay.
In the fifties I was secretly listening to AM radio in my bed at night
using the metal matras of the bed as radio antenna and just such an earphone and home wound
coil crystal radio :-)
Later in the sixties I did read these (Dutch):
https://archive.org/details/radio-blan/Radio_Blan_01_juli_1960/

On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Feb 2024 10:17:15 -0800) it happened john larkin
<jl@650pot.com> wrote in <c4qcsid2hj6nt7dgu4ugh61nedv1r2002g@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 17:16:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Feb 2024 08:54:12 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <fllcsilrqje0tu8iarhhl37gr1c5emcoo8@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 16:25:31 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 07:24:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:02:26 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>
>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>
>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>
>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>sorts of stuff.
>>
>>I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>
>>And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>
>Almost all our products were simulated in LT Spice, and that steered
>or verified the designs.
>
>>
>>Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>
>We don't prototype many products; they are too complex. It's more
>efficient to design, simulate, review, and manufacture. If the
>engineering is done right, you can sell rev A. I nkow of one giant
>organization that formally plans for six PCB spins before production.
>Why bother to be careful on the first few?
>
>We do breadboard little subcircuits if we're not sure how they will
>behave. Data sheets can be vague. Dremeling is fun.
>
>Hers's a product sim.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gpjalf4g0c5m6qlg2j6ce/PMA_Sim_4.jpg?rlkey=8bh9cjpl5e3ltqm683hss1ufm&raw=1
>
>I did this all analog, in LT Spice, to get the dynamics right. Most of
>this will actually be done in an FPGA.

Last time I uses LTspice was for this filter:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_top_IMG_6903.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_circuit_diagram_IMG_6958.JPG
That circuit shifts audio 90 degrees from few hundred Hz to about 3.4 kHz,
is used to generate a SSB signal using quadrature modulation.
As I did not have the right caps (circuit was not designed by me is maybe from the fifies of last century but now with opamps)
I wanted to know what the phase shifts were at different frequenies.
https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_PCB_bottom_view_IMG_6960.JPG
Simpler to use a crystal filter (I had one back then, what was it XF-9B ?).
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kristallvn_quarzfilter_xf9_b.html
But curiosity :-)

On 2/10/24 00:29, Don wrote:
> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>
>>>>> Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>
>>> Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>> I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>> sorts of stuff.
>>
>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>
>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>
>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>
> Tis true the Spice won't help you
> With a simple radio set:
>
> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
> [...]

Why not?

Jeroen Belleman

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 06:44:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Feb 2024 10:17:15 -0800) it happened john larkin
><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <c4qcsid2hj6nt7dgu4ugh61nedv1r2002g@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 17:16:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Feb 2024 08:54:12 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <fllcsilrqje0tu8iarhhl37gr1c5emcoo8@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 16:25:31 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 07:24:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:02:26 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>>>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>
>>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>sorts of stuff.
>>>
>>>I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>
>>>And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>
>>Almost all our products were simulated in LT Spice, and that steered
>>or verified the designs.
>>
>>>
>>>Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>
>>We don't prototype many products; they are too complex. It's more
>>efficient to design, simulate, review, and manufacture. If the
>>engineering is done right, you can sell rev A. I nkow of one giant
>>organization that formally plans for six PCB spins before production.
>>Why bother to be careful on the first few?
>>
>>We do breadboard little subcircuits if we're not sure how they will
>>behave. Data sheets can be vague. Dremeling is fun.
>>
>>Hers's a product sim.
>>
>>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gpjalf4g0c5m6qlg2j6ce/PMA_Sim_4.jpg?rlkey=8bh9cjpl5e3ltqm683hss1ufm&raw=1
>>
>>I did this all analog, in LT Spice, to get the dynamics right. Most of
>>this will actually be done in an FPGA.
>
>Last time I uses LTspice was for this filter:
> https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_top_IMG_6903.JPG
> https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_circuit_diagram_IMG_6958.JPG
>That circuit shifts audio 90 degrees from few hundred Hz to about 3.4 kHz,
>is used to generate a SSB signal using quadrature modulation.
>As I did not have the right caps (circuit was not designed by me is maybe from the fifies of last century but now with opamps)
>I wanted to know what the phase shifts were at different frequenies.
> https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_PCB_bottom_view_IMG_6960.JPG
>Simpler to use a crystal filter (I had one back then, what was it XF-9B ?).
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kristallvn_quarzfilter_xf9_b.html
>But curiosity :-)
>

If you Spiced that filter, you could quickly plot gain and phase vs
frequency, and twiddle part values and tolerances to see the effects.
And not need trimpots. Measuring gain and phase vs frequency on a
breadboard sounds tedious.

I know some engineers who seem reluctant to learn LT Spice. In fact,
it's really easy. And free.

On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 23:29:34 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>
>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>
>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>
>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>sorts of stuff.
>>
>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>
>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>
>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>
>Tis true the Spice won't help you
>With a simple radio set:
>
><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>
>
>No worries all's not nyet
>Spice fiddling's a safe bet...
>
>Danke,

Why does a crystal set need a power supply?

I don't think the circuit will work with a crystal headphone.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 05:44:11 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 23:29:34 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>
>>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>sorts of stuff.
>>>
>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>
>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>
>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>
>>Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>With a simple radio set:
>>
>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>
>>
>>No worries all's not nyet
>>Spice fiddling's a safe bet...
>>
>>Danke,
>
>Why does a crystal set need a power supply?
>
>I don't think the circuit will work with a crystal headphone.

It wouldn't work without one. Xtal sets need hi-z earphones for
obvious reasons and crystal earpieces are ideal.

On 2024-02-10 15:32, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 05:44:11 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 23:29:34 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>
>>>>> Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>> I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>> sorts of stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>
>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>
>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>
>>> Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>> With a simple radio set:
>>>
>>> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>
>>>
>>> No worries all's not nyet
>>> Spice fiddling's a safe bet...
>>>
>>> Danke,
>>
>> Why does a crystal set need a power supply?
>>
>> I don't think the circuit will work with a crystal headphone.
>
> It wouldn't work without one. Xtal sets need hi-z earphones for
> obvious reasons and crystal earpieces are ideal.

Yes, but they need a leakage resistor over the earpiece so the diode kan stay doing its work. A pencil stripe will do.
Just as the inductive earpiece needs a parallel capacitor for optimal work (often the wiring functions as such).

Arie

On a sunny day (Sat, 10 Feb 2024 05:42:01 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <j1vesitocmend2ip8jgns72gvcqo4bh7n2@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 06:44:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Feb 2024 10:17:15 -0800) it happened john larkin
>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <c4qcsid2hj6nt7dgu4ugh61nedv1r2002g@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 17:16:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Feb 2024 08:54:12 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <fllcsilrqje0tu8iarhhl37gr1c5emcoo8@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 16:25:31 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 07:24:43 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:02:26 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
>>>>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>
>>>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>sorts of stuff.
>>>>
>>>>I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>>If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>>Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>
>>>>And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>
>>>Almost all our products were simulated in LT Spice, and that steered
>>>or verified the designs.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>
>>>We don't prototype many products; they are too complex. It's more
>>>efficient to design, simulate, review, and manufacture. If the
>>>engineering is done right, you can sell rev A. I nkow of one giant
>>>organization that formally plans for six PCB spins before production.
>>>Why bother to be careful on the first few?
>>>
>>>We do breadboard little subcircuits if we're not sure how they will
>>>behave. Data sheets can be vague. Dremeling is fun.
>>>
>>>Hers's a product sim.
>>>
>>>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gpjalf4g0c5m6qlg2j6ce/PMA_Sim_4.jpg?rlkey=8bh9cjpl5e3ltqm683hss1ufm&raw=1
>>>
>>>I did this all analog, in LT Spice, to get the dynamics right. Most of
>>>this will actually be done in an FPGA.
>>
>>Last time I uses LTspice was for this filter:
>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_top_IMG_6903.JPG
>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_circuit_diagram_IMG_6958.JPG
>>That circuit shifts audio 90 degrees from few hundred Hz to about 3.4 kHz,
>>is used to generate a SSB signal using quadrature modulation.
>>As I did not have the right caps (circuit was not designed by me is maybe from the fifies of last century but now with opamps)
>>I wanted to know what the phase shifts were at different frequenies.
>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/audio_90_degrees_phase_shifter_PCB_bottom_view_IMG_6960.JPG
>>Simpler to use a crystal filter (I had one back then, what was it XF-9B ?).
>> https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kristallvn_quarzfilter_xf9_b.html
>>But curiosity :-)
>>
>
>If you Spiced that filter, you could quickly plot gain and phase vs
>frequency, and twiddle part values and tolerances to see the effects.
>And not need trimpots. Measuring gain and phase vs frequency on a
>breadboard sounds tedious.
>
>I know some engineers who seem reluctant to learn LT Spice. In fact,
>it's really easy. And free.

Yes its easy, I used it
For the 90 degrees:
signal generator on input, x y scope input and output
sweep, see if it stays a circle.
Who needs spice.
Then they can learn soldering an see what a real component looks like.
So they do not have to go dremmeling ;-)

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 14:32:10 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 05:44:11 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 23:29:34 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>
>>>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>sorts of stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>
>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>
>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>
>>>Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>>With a simple radio set:
>>>
>>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>
>>>
>>>No worries all's not nyet
>>>Spice fiddling's a safe bet...
>>>
>>>Danke,
>>
>>Why does a crystal set need a power supply?
>>
>>I don't think the circuit will work with a crystal headphone.
>
>It wouldn't work without one. Xtal sets need hi-z earphones for
>obvious reasons and crystal earpieces are ideal.

In the circuit shown, the headphone capacitance will charge up and the
diode will back-bias.

Unless you use a very leaky diode.

What's the power supply for?

Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> Don wrote:
>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>
>>>> Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>> I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>> sorts of stuff.
>>>
>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>
>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>
>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>
>> Tis true the Spice won't help you
>> With a simple radio set:
>>
>> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>> [...]
>
> Why not?

Good question. And, with all due respect, you ought to post some Spice to
show me how you do it.

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

John Larkin wrote:
> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>John Larkin wrote:
>>> Don wrote:
>>>>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>>sorts of stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>>
>>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>>
>>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>>
>>>>Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>>>With a simple radio set:
>>>>
>>>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>
>>>>
>>>>No worries all's not nyet
>>>>Spice fiddling's a safe bet...
>>>
>>>Why does a crystal set need a power supply?
>>>
>>>I don't think the circuit will work with a crystal headphone.
>>
>>It wouldn't work without one. Xtal sets need hi-z earphones for
>>obvious reasons and crystal earpieces are ideal.
>
> In the circuit shown, the headphone capacitance will charge up and the
> diode will back-bias.
>
> Unless you use a very leaky diode.
>
> What's the power supply for?

Good question. Although it primary provides power for future, yet-to-be
developed protos, it also fulfills a fundamental function for a crystal
radio set.

Think about it.

Hint: the power cord conveniently connects three cables to the case, but
not all are used by this crystal circuit.

# # #

My simplest schematic shown uses a hi-Z earphone (although its schematic
symbol sucks IMHO). The demodulating diode depicted works without a
parallel capacitor.

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 17:27:48 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>John Larkin wrote:
>>>> Don wrote:
>>>>>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>>>sorts of stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>>>>With a simple radio set:
>>>>>
>>>>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>>>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>
>>>>>
>>>>>No worries all's not nyet
>>>>>Spice fiddling's a safe bet...
>>>>
>>>>Why does a crystal set need a power supply?
>>>>
>>>>I don't think the circuit will work with a crystal headphone.
>>>
>>>It wouldn't work without one. Xtal sets need hi-z earphones for
>>>obvious reasons and crystal earpieces are ideal.
>>
>> In the circuit shown, the headphone capacitance will charge up and the
>> diode will back-bias.
>>
>> Unless you use a very leaky diode.
>>
>> What's the power supply for?
>
>Good question. Although it primary provides power for future, yet-to-be
>developed protos, it also fulfills a fundamental function for a crystal
>radio set.
>
>Think about it.

I can't imagine why.

I had a crystal radio when I was a kid. My uncle Sheldon and I built
it, hand-wound coil, classic 365pF variable cap, built on a piece of
wood. It used a hi-z pair of dynamic headphones. It was LOUD.

Hiz dynamic phones are rare these days, but one could use a small
audio transformer with 4 ohm headphones.

John Larkin wrote:
> Don wrote:
>>John Larkin wrote:
>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> Don wrote:
>>>>>>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>>>>I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>>>>sorts of stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>>>>>With a simple radio set:
>>>>>>
>>>>>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>>>>><https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/b.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No worries all's not nyet
>>>>>>Spice fiddling's a safe bet...
>>>>>
>>>>>Why does a crystal set need a power supply?
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think the circuit will work with a crystal headphone.
>>>>
>>>>It wouldn't work without one. Xtal sets need hi-z earphones for
>>>>obvious reasons and crystal earpieces are ideal.
>>>
>>> In the circuit shown, the headphone capacitance will charge up and the
>>> diode will back-bias.
>>>
>>> Unless you use a very leaky diode.
>>>
>>> What's the power supply for?
>>
>>Good question. Although it primary provides power for future, yet-to-be
>>developed protos, it also fulfills a fundamental function for a crystal
>>radio set.
>>
>>Think about it.
>
> I can't imagine why.
>
> I had a crystal radio when I was a kid. My uncle Sheldon and I built
> it, hand-wound coil, classic 365pF variable cap, built on a piece of
> wood. It used a hi-z pair of dynamic headphones. It was LOUD.
>
> Hiz dynamic phones are rare these days, but one could use a small
> audio transformer with 4 ohm headphones.

Along with assorted audio convertors, there's at least one old Soviet
military headset here:

<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=high+impedance+earphone>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/314895978798>

(A pariah perhaps to patriots stirred by sanction spirit.)

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

On 2/9/24 10:17 AM, john larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 17:16:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
....
>
> We don't prototype many products; they are too complex. It's more
> efficient to design, simulate, review, and manufacture. If the
> engineering is done right, you can sell rev A. I nkow of one giant
> organization that formally plans for six PCB spins before production.
> Why bother to be careful on the first few?
....

I used to be a developer at such a giant organization and we did usually
have many spins of the PCB.

However it was rarely because there were any faults with the designs,
each revision usually worked as intended, designers were very careful
with each revision with a full suite of simulations of the design
including AC and DC validation of the PCB layout automatically ran at
each stage.

The various revisions were planned so that the other parts of the
organization would have hardware to use for development. It was not
unusual for 5,000 prototype units to be manufactured for such work.

For example the final form factor was not known until the external
product design was completed which usually didn't happen until fairly
late in development.

ASIC design, human factors engineering, software development,
manufacturing, quality assurance, regulatory and other groups all had
their needs and input into the final design but they needed something to
work with in the meanwhile.

The first revisions would be in a development form factor where each
major function had its own PCB that mounted on a large mother board.

Occasionally unusual interactions would occur when the final form factor
designs were created. I was involved in one critical aspect where
acoustic noise from a ceramic capacitor was getting into a microphone as
they ended up only being about 3mm apart; this was not an issue on the
development board where there were many centimeters between them. I
solved it by using a combination of tantalum and COG ceramic capacitors;
Tantalum capacitors in 0402 form factor were becoming available just in
time for production.

kw

On 2/10/24 18:27, Don wrote:
> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> Don wrote:
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>
>>>>> Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>> I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>> sorts of stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>
>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>
>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>
>>> Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>> With a simple radio set:
>>>
>>> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>> [...]
>>
>> Why not?
>
> Good question. And, with all due respect, you ought to post some Spice to
> show me how you do it.
>
> Danke,
>

Something akin to this.

Jeroen Belleman

================================================
Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE -144 96 -176 96
WIRE -32 96 -64 96
WIRE 272 96 176 96
WIRE 352 96 272 96
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FLAG 176 240 0
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FLAG -176 240 0
FLAG 512 96 out
SYMBOL ind2 160 112 R0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 16µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL cap 256 128 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 6.28n
SYMBOL diode 352 112 R270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value AA112
SYMBOL res 448 112 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1meg
SYMBOL cap 528 144 R0
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 10n
SYMBOL ind2 -48 112 R0
SYMATTR InstName L2
SYMATTR Value 16µ
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL bv -176 112 R0
WINDOW 3 -186 181 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName B1
SYMATTR Value V=10k*(1+sin(time*1k*2*pi))*sin(time*1meg*2*pi)
SYMBOL res -48 80 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 1
TEXT 72 0 Left 2 !.tran 5m
TEXT 0 112 Left 2 !K12 L1 L2 1u
TEXT -152 0 Left 2 ;Transmitter
TEXT 264 0 Left 2 ;Crystal set receiver

Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> Don wrote:
>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> Don wrote:
>>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>> I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>> sorts of stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>>
>>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>>
>>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>>
>>>> Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>>> With a simple radio set:
>>>>
>>>> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Why not?
>>
>> Good question. And, with all due respect, you ought to post some Spice to
>> show me how you do it.
>
> Something akin to this.

<snip>

Brilliant - you're a gentleman, a scholar, and a genius!

While my mind mulled how to capture the crystal circuit in Spice, it
never occurred to me inject its input with a transformer.

Your sim will be put to good use. Thank you.

# # #

Readers who overlooked the final two lines of my poem (the stanzas
someone snipped along the way) will note how they say something
similar to "let he who doesn't Spice fiddle cast the first stone."

ROTFLMAO.

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 22:33:15 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

>On 2/10/24 18:27, Don wrote:
>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> Don wrote:
>>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>> I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>> sorts of stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>>
>>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>>
>>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>>
>>>> Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>>> With a simple radio set:
>>>>
>>>> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Why not?
>>
>> Good question. And, with all due respect, you ought to post some Spice to
>> show me how you do it.
>>
>> Danke,
>>
>
>Something akin to this.
>
>Jeroen Belleman
>
>================================================
>Version 4
>SHEET 1 880 680
>WIRE -144 96 -176 96
>WIRE -32 96 -64 96
>WIRE 272 96 176 96
>WIRE 352 96 272 96
>WIRE 464 96 416 96
>WIRE 512 96 464 96
>WIRE 544 96 512 96
>WIRE -176 128 -176 96
>WIRE -32 128 -32 96
>WIRE 176 128 176 96
>WIRE 272 128 272 96
>WIRE 464 128 464 96
>WIRE 544 144 544 96
>WIRE -176 240 -176 208
>WIRE -32 240 -32 208
>WIRE 176 240 176 208
>WIRE 272 240 272 192
>WIRE 464 240 464 208
>WIRE 544 240 544 208
>FLAG 176 240 0
>FLAG 272 240 0
>FLAG 464 240 0
>FLAG 544 240 0
>FLAG -32 240 0
>FLAG -176 240 0
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>SYMBOL ind2 160 112 R0
>SYMATTR InstName L1
>SYMATTR Value 16µ
>SYMATTR Type ind
>SYMBOL cap 256 128 R0
>SYMATTR InstName C1
>SYMATTR Value 6.28n
>SYMBOL diode 352 112 R270
>WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
>WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
>SYMATTR InstName D1
>SYMATTR Value AA112
>SYMBOL res 448 112 R0
>SYMATTR InstName R1
>SYMATTR Value 1meg
>SYMBOL cap 528 144 R0
>SYMATTR InstName C2
>SYMATTR Value 10n
>SYMBOL ind2 -48 112 R0
>SYMATTR InstName L2
>SYMATTR Value 16µ
>SYMATTR Type ind
>SYMBOL bv -176 112 R0
>WINDOW 3 -186 181 Left 2
>SYMATTR InstName B1
>SYMATTR Value V=10k*(1+sin(time*1k*2*pi))*sin(time*1meg*2*pi)
>SYMBOL res -48 80 R90
>WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
>WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
>SYMATTR InstName R2
>SYMATTR Value 1
>TEXT 72 0 Left 2 !.tran 5m
>TEXT 0 112 Left 2 !K12 L1 L2 1u
>TEXT -152 0 Left 2 ;Transmitter
>TEXT 264 0 Left 2 ;Crystal set receiver

Suggestions:

Reduce the modulation a bit. It distorts at 100%.

Make R1 2K, like an old dynamic headphone.

Change the coupling to 50u. A good antenna makes a lot of signal.

You can use a BAT54 schottky.

On 2/11/24 02:22, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 22:33:15 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/24 18:27, Don wrote:
>>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>> Don wrote:
>>>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>>> I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>>> sorts of stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>>>> With a simple radio set:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> Why not?
>>>
>>> Good question. And, with all due respect, you ought to post some Spice to
>>> show me how you do it.
>>>
>>> Danke,
>>>
>>
>> Something akin to this.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>>
>> ================================================
>> Version 4
>> SHEET 1 880 680
>> WIRE -144 96 -176 96
>> WIRE -32 96 -64 96
>> WIRE 272 96 176 96
>> WIRE 352 96 272 96
>> WIRE 464 96 416 96
>> WIRE 512 96 464 96
>> WIRE 544 96 512 96
>> WIRE -176 128 -176 96
>> WIRE -32 128 -32 96
>> WIRE 176 128 176 96
>> WIRE 272 128 272 96
>> WIRE 464 128 464 96
>> WIRE 544 144 544 96
>> WIRE -176 240 -176 208
>> WIRE -32 240 -32 208
>> WIRE 176 240 176 208
>> WIRE 272 240 272 192
>> WIRE 464 240 464 208
>> WIRE 544 240 544 208
>> FLAG 176 240 0
>> FLAG 272 240 0
>> FLAG 464 240 0
>> FLAG 544 240 0
>> FLAG -32 240 0
>> FLAG -176 240 0
>> FLAG 512 96 out
>> SYMBOL ind2 160 112 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName L1
>> SYMATTR Value 16µ
>> SYMATTR Type ind
>> SYMBOL cap 256 128 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName C1
>> SYMATTR Value 6.28n
>> SYMBOL diode 352 112 R270
>> WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
>> WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
>> SYMATTR InstName D1
>> SYMATTR Value AA112
>> SYMBOL res 448 112 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName R1
>> SYMATTR Value 1meg
>> SYMBOL cap 528 144 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName C2
>> SYMATTR Value 10n
>> SYMBOL ind2 -48 112 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName L2
>> SYMATTR Value 16µ
>> SYMATTR Type ind
>> SYMBOL bv -176 112 R0
>> WINDOW 3 -186 181 Left 2
>> SYMATTR InstName B1
>> SYMATTR Value V=10k*(1+sin(time*1k*2*pi))*sin(time*1meg*2*pi)
>> SYMBOL res -48 80 R90
>> WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
>> WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
>> SYMATTR InstName R2
>> SYMATTR Value 1
>> TEXT 72 0 Left 2 !.tran 5m
>> TEXT 0 112 Left 2 !K12 L1 L2 1u
>> TEXT -152 0 Left 2 ;Transmitter
>> TEXT 264 0 Left 2 ;Crystal set receiver
>
> Suggestions:
>
> Reduce the modulation a bit. It distorts at 100%.
>
> Make R1 2K, like an old dynamic headphone.
>
> Change the coupling to 50u. A good antenna makes a lot of signal.
>
> You can use a BAT54 schottky.
>

You don't expect high fidelity from a crystal set, but OK, fair enough.
C2 was meant to model a piezo earbud. I should actually measure one...

I got the values of C! and L1 wrong. C1=300pF is more reasonable,
and then L1=84.43uH. In practice, of course, C1 would be tuned and L1
would be fixed at 80uH or so, but either way works.

The voltage of B1 and the tranformer coupling factor are just guesses,
based on the knwoledge that crystal sets actually do work.

Jeroen Belleman

On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 10:39:49 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

>On 2/11/24 02:22, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 22:33:15 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/10/24 18:27, Don wrote:
>>>> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>> Don wrote:
>>>>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the new circuit analysis: exploring operation in Spice and looking at graphs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/circuit-analysis-with-ltspice-12v-lamp-flasher
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Too much talking for too little circuit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Bloggs had to use LTspice for a 12V lamp flasher?? Jeez!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using Spice is reasonable, easier than computing exponentials by hand.
>>>>>>>> I use Spice for voltage dividers, filters, rectifiers, RLC delays, all
>>>>>>>> sorts of stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I mostly use pepper, Chili and salt as spices, some sugar etc.
>>>>>>> If this spice stuff continues people will need it before throwing a ball...
>>>>>>> Why not just ask AI to design the circuit for you,?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And no guarantee that anything in LTspice works -in- or even resembles reality!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Real hands on testing is needed to get a clue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tis true the Spice won't help you
>>>>>> With a simple radio set:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://crcomp.net/crystalrx/a.png>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not?
>>>>
>>>> Good question. And, with all due respect, you ought to post some Spice to
>>>> show me how you do it.
>>>>
>>>> Danke,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Something akin to this.
>>>
>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>
>>> ================================================
>>> Version 4
>>> SHEET 1 880 680
>>> WIRE -144 96 -176 96
>>> WIRE -32 96 -64 96
>>> WIRE 272 96 176 96
>>> WIRE 352 96 272 96
>>> WIRE 464 96 416 96
>>> WIRE 512 96 464 96
>>> WIRE 544 96 512 96
>>> WIRE -176 128 -176 96
>>> WIRE -32 128 -32 96
>>> WIRE 176 128 176 96
>>> WIRE 272 128 272 96
>>> WIRE 464 128 464 96
>>> WIRE 544 144 544 96
>>> WIRE -176 240 -176 208
>>> WIRE -32 240 -32 208
>>> WIRE 176 240 176 208
>>> WIRE 272 240 272 192
>>> WIRE 464 240 464 208
>>> WIRE 544 240 544 208
>>> FLAG 176 240 0
>>> FLAG 272 240 0
>>> FLAG 464 240 0
>>> FLAG 544 240 0
>>> FLAG -32 240 0
>>> FLAG -176 240 0
>>> FLAG 512 96 out
>>> SYMBOL ind2 160 112 R0
>>> SYMATTR InstName L1
>>> SYMATTR Value 16µ
>>> SYMATTR Type ind
>>> SYMBOL cap 256 128 R0
>>> SYMATTR InstName C1
>>> SYMATTR Value 6.28n
>>> SYMBOL diode 352 112 R270
>>> WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
>>> WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
>>> SYMATTR InstName D1
>>> SYMATTR Value AA112
>>> SYMBOL res 448 112 R0
>>> SYMATTR InstName R1
>>> SYMATTR Value 1meg
>>> SYMBOL cap 528 144 R0
>>> SYMATTR InstName C2
>>> SYMATTR Value 10n
>>> SYMBOL ind2 -48 112 R0
>>> SYMATTR InstName L2
>>> SYMATTR Value 16µ
>>> SYMATTR Type ind
>>> SYMBOL bv -176 112 R0
>>> WINDOW 3 -186 181 Left 2
>>> SYMATTR InstName B1
>>> SYMATTR Value V=10k*(1+sin(time*1k*2*pi))*sin(time*1meg*2*pi)
>>> SYMBOL res -48 80 R90
>>> WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
>>> WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
>>> SYMATTR InstName R2
>>> SYMATTR Value 1
>>> TEXT 72 0 Left 2 !.tran 5m
>>> TEXT 0 112 Left 2 !K12 L1 L2 1u
>>> TEXT -152 0 Left 2 ;Transmitter
>>> TEXT 264 0 Left 2 ;Crystal set receiver
>>
>> Suggestions:
>>
>> Reduce the modulation a bit. It distorts at 100%.
>>
>> Make R1 2K, like an old dynamic headphone.
>>
>> Change the coupling to 50u. A good antenna makes a lot of signal.
>>
>> You can use a BAT54 schottky.
>>
>
>
>You don't expect high fidelity from a crystal set, but OK, fair enough.
>C2 was meant to model a piezo earbud. I should actually measure one...
>
>I got the values of C! and L1 wrong. C1=300pF is more reasonable,
>and then L1=84.43uH. In practice, of course, C1 would be tuned and L1
>would be fixed at 80uH or so, but either way works.
>
>The voltage of B1 and the tranformer coupling factor are just guesses,
>based on the knwoledge that crystal sets actually do work.
>
>Jeroen Belleman

I think that most xtal sets do some sort of impedance matching from
the antenna up into the main coil, taps on the coil or an extra
winding. A really longwire antanna will have a lot of capacitance and
an equivalent lowish impedance.

The people who have made xtal sets over the last century or so don't
seem to have been very quantitative.

I've wondered if I can slurp enought power out of the air to light an
LED. My office is in a wooden building about 3 miles from Sutro Tower.
Castro valley is a bowl that I suspect focusses the RF onto us.