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tech / rec.aviation.piloting / Re: High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft

SubjectAuthor
* High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraftLarry Dighera
`* High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraftJim Pennino
 `* High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraftLarry Dighera
  `- High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraftJim Pennino

1
High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft

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From: LDighera@att.net (Larry Dighera)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 09:21:30 -0700
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 by: Larry Dighera - Sat, 22 Apr 2023 16:21 UTC

https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery

CATL launches ultra-high density 500-Wh/kg "condensed battery"
By Loz Blain
April 20, 2023

CATL says it's ready for mass production of super-dense 500-Wh/kg lithium
batteriesCATL
VIEW 2 IMAGES

In huge news for zero-emissions aviation, Chinese company CATL is set to go
to mass production on a "condensed battery" it says can squeeze in more than
twice as much energy as a Tesla Model Y battery, by weight – while being
safe enough to fly with.

Lithium batteries started an avalanche of innovation when they became widely
available, largely because they could hold significantly more energy by
weight than other contemporary chemistries. Touchscreen smartphones, drones,
all-day laptops, long-range electric cars and the first generation of
battery-powered aircraft were some of the results.

But more energy storage is always better – you can either make things last
longer, or weigh less – and manufacturers have been racing to raise the bar
with next-gen battery technologies. One key metric in the aviation world is
specific energy – the amount of energy stored per kilogram of battery, and
CATL says it's ready to set a new benchmark.

The lithium-based condensed battery was launched Wednesday at the Auto
Shanghai expo, with CATL claiming blockbuster energy density figures "up to
500 Wh/kg." The highest density cells we've seen previously would be from
Amprius, which was shipping batteries at 450 Wh/kg more than a year ago.
Meanwhile, the 4680 battery cells in Tesla's Model Y are being measured at
around 244 Wh/kg.

CATL says the new batteries feature innovations in "ultra-high energy
density cathode materials, innovative anode materials, separators, and
manufacturing processes," and use "highly conductive biomimetic condensed
state electrolytes to construct a micron-level self-adaptive net structure
that can adjust the interactive forces among the chains," improving
performance, efficiency and stability.

Other than the banner figure for specific energy, the company is giving
little away at this point. We don't yet know what these cells will offer in
terms of energy density by volume, for example, or power density. CATL says
they'll deliver "excellent charge and discharge performance as well as good
safety performance."

High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft

CATL
The company says it's already partnering with electric aircraft companies,
looking to satisfy aviation-grade safety and quality standards. Clearly this
will be of extreme interest to anyone developing an eVTOL aircraft, provided
the cells can put out enough power for VTOL operations – but electric
fixed-wing passenger aircraft will also get an impressive range boost out of
this tech.

CATL says it "can achieve mass production of condensed battery in a short
period of time," and indeed, it expects to put an automotive-grade version
of this battery into mass production before the end of the year – although
we don't know what kind of specific energy figure we can expect from that.

We've seen plenty of next-gen battery technologies promising huge density
figures over the last five or more years, but far fewer that make it through
to the product stage. So it's exciting to hear that these are likely to
start rolling out in serious numbers in the coming months.

Source: CATL
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6015.html

We recommend
China's CATL unveils battery planned to power planes
TechXplore.com, 2023
https://techxplore.com/news/2023-04-china-catl-unveils-battery-power.html

Re: High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft

<pkhdhj-3tm9.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>

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From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 10:20:59 -0700
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 by: Jim Pennino - Sat, 22 Apr 2023 17:20 UTC

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:
>
> https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery
>
> CATL launches ultra-high density 500-Wh/kg "condensed battery"

Jet-A ~12,000 Wh/kg

Still a way to go, but on the bright side electric airplanes essentially
eliminate weight and balance issues. If the aircraft is at max gross on
take off, it will still be at max gross on landing.

Watch the Ford F-150 Lightning Fire That Stalled Production for Five Weeks

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a43669883/watch-the-ford-f-150-lightning-fire-that-stalled-production-for-five-weeks/

"As electric vehicle production ramps up across the automotive industry,
EV battery fires are starting to draw more attention from potential
owners and emergency services alike."

Re: High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 18:11:02 +0000
From: LDighera@att.net (Larry Dighera)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 11:11:14 -0700
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 by: Larry Dighera - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 18:11 UTC

What is the energy density of LH2 compared to Jet-A?

On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 10:20:59 -0700, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
wrote:

>Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery
>>
>> CATL launches ultra-high density 500-Wh/kg "condensed battery"
>
>Jet-A ~12,000 Wh/kg
>
>Still a way to go, but on the bright side electric airplanes essentially
>eliminate weight and balance issues. If the aircraft is at max gross on
>take off, it will still be at max gross on landing.
>

Electric motors don't lose power as altitude increases as IC engines do.

>
>Watch the Ford F-150 Lightning Fire That Stalled Production for Five Weeks
>
>https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a43669883/watch-the-ford-f-150-lightning-fire-that-stalled-production-for-five-weeks/
>
>"As electric vehicle production ramps up across the automotive industry,
>EV battery fires are starting to draw more attention from potential
>owners and emergency services alike."
>

They've got a long way to go before they reach the level of aircraft fires,
I'll bet.

Re: High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft

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From: jimp@gonzo.specsol.net (Jim Pennino)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: High-density batteries could be huge for electric passenger aircraft
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 11:41:34 -0700
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 by: Jim Pennino - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 18:41 UTC

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> What is the energy density of LH2 compared to Jet-A?

LH2 is ~33,000 Wh/kg.

Ignoring those pesky little problems of production, storage, cost and
transport, burning hydrogen in an engine produces HUGE amounts of NOx,
i.e. smog.

A hydrogen fuel cell reduces energy density (not counting the physical
fuel cell) by abut a half.

> On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 10:20:59 -0700, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery
>>>
>>> CATL launches ultra-high density 500-Wh/kg "condensed battery"
>>
>>Jet-A ~12,000 Wh/kg
>>
>>Still a way to go, but on the bright side electric airplanes essentially
>>eliminate weight and balance issues. If the aircraft is at max gross on
>>take off, it will still be at max gross on landing.
>>
>
> Electric motors don't lose power as altitude increases as IC engines do.

Yep, that becomes a big problem over about 40,000 feet.

>>
>>Watch the Ford F-150 Lightning Fire That Stalled Production for Five Weeks
>>
>>https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a43669883/watch-the-ford-f-150-lightning-fire-that-stalled-production-for-five-weeks/
>>
>>"As electric vehicle production ramps up across the automotive industry,
>>EV battery fires are starting to draw more attention from potential
>>owners and emergency services alike."
>>
>
> They've got a long way to go before they reach the level of aircraft fires,
> I'll bet.

Well, yeah, first someone would have to build more than one before a
bunch of them parked together could catch fire.

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