Or whatever. Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
..mp4 or anything else useful? I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
have lost their labels. $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
ridiculous. I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
and I would guess that there might be sync problems.

Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...

--
Cheers, Bev
"It's too bad stupidity isn't painful." - A. S. LaVey

In article <u4r7dd$3cv0$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> Or whatever. Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
> .mp4 or anything else useful? I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
> have lost their labels. $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
> ridiculous.

actually, it's cheap and the results are very good. y

> I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
> It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.

the biggest problem is the quality of whatever you hack together will
be nowhere near as good as a commercial service that has the proper
equipment.

On 2023-05-26 17:13, The Real Bev wrote:
> Or whatever.  Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
> .mp4 or anything else useful?  I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
> have lost their labels.  $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
> ridiculous.  I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
>  It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>
> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...

I'd start by using a light table and loupe to identify the reels you
most want to save and bring them to a shop to do.

I suspect your local Craigslist might locate someone who will do it for
less than a photo shop. Even announce your need there.

Whether or not you find a better deal, then do, say, the 3 best and see
if you're inspired to do more afterward.

You might be able to finagle a volume discount too.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 5/26/23 2:47 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-05-26 17:13, The Real Bev wrote:
>> Or whatever.  Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
>> .mp4 or anything else useful?  I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
>> have lost their labels.  $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
>> ridiculous.  I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
>> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
>>  It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
>> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
>> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>>
>> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...
>
> I'd start by using a light table and loupe to identify the reels you
> most want to save and bring them to a shop to do.

It's all or nothing. I especially want the baby movies and the series
with the camera mounted on the dashboard set to take a shot every n
seconds as we crossed the country. Oh, wait, that's all of them :-(
Baby son also did some clever claymation things. As I say, all or
nothing. Maybe the heirs will feel differently.

> I suspect your local Craigslist might locate someone who will do it for
> less than a photo shop. Even announce your need there.

Thanks, I'll try Craigslist and NextDoor, but I have little hope from
either. Both were a good idea, but the execution is pitiful. Usenet
spoiled us :-(

> Whether or not you find a better deal, then do, say, the 3 best and see
> if you're inspired to do more afterward.
>
> You might be able to finagle a volume discount too.

When volume pricing is listed it's not all that special, but perhaps
discussion with an actual human might be more rewarding...

--
Cheers, Bev
"Calling someone an asshole for being rude to a telemarketer
is like accusing someone who's shot a burglar in his home
of being a poor host." -- W.S.Rowell

On 27/05/2023 9:13 am, The Real Bev wrote:
> Or whatever.  Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
> .mp4 or anything else useful?  I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
> have lost their labels.  $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
> ridiculous.  I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
>  It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>
> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...
>

Jeepers. I wouldn't attempt it for a mere $15-$20 per roll.

geoff

On 2023-05-26 23:13, The Real Bev wrote:
> Or whatever.  Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
> .mp4 or anything else useful?  I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
> have lost their labels.  $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
> ridiculous.  I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
>  It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>
> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...
>

$15-$20 each is reasonable. That's your best option. Maybe you can get
an offer for doing 50 rolls. It is what I did, on Blacks, but only 4 rolls.

Another one is to rent the equipment to do it yourself.

There are two possibilities:

Project it "somewhere" and shot at it with a camera. Cheap and quick.
Much better if you can rent somekind of compact thing to do it.

Scan one photo at a time, but automatic. Then convert to movie. This
is the absolute best. There are services that do this, I knew one on
Australia, working world wide, and expensive. They had software to
correct for errors and promised excellent quality.

If you can rent a machine that does this, I would go for it. No idea of
pricing.

Oh, or buy that equipment second hand, then sell it again when you
finish. Not my idea, I read of that somewhere. For fifty rolls, it
should be reasonable.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-05-26 19:17, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/26/23 2:47 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-05-26 17:13, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> Or whatever.  Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi
>>> or .mp4 or anything else useful?  I have at least 50 rolls, all of
>>> which have lost their labels.  $15-$20 each to let some service do it [AAA]
>>> is ridiculous.  I tried a device that required me to feed the film in
>>> by hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise
>>> ridiculous.   It's possible to project the movies and photograph them
>>> as a digital movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and
>>> harder to find and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>>>
>>> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...
>>
>> I'd start by using a light table and loupe to identify the reels you
>> most want to save and bring them to a shop to do.
>
> It's all or nothing.

Forgive me, but that is not a rational approach.

> I especially want the baby movies and the series
====

I suggest that "want" and "need" are different things.... you already
suggested that you have some "preference" (see [AAA] above).

> with the camera mounted on the dashboard set to take a shot every n
> seconds as we crossed the country.  Oh, wait, that's all of them :-(
> Baby son also did some clever claymation things.  As I say, all or
> nothing.  Maybe the heirs will feel differently.

By this statement, Nothing = nothing _and_ nothing = less.

Why not go for the best of less?

(Sorry - that is a rational question desiring a rational response).

>> I suspect your local Craigslist might locate someone who will do it for
>> less than a photo shop.  Even announce your need there.
>
> Thanks, I'll try Craigslist and NextDoor, but I have little hope from
> either.  Both were a good idea, but the execution is pitiful.  Usenet
> spoiled us :-(

Also check local photography clubs - ya never know.

>
>> Whether or not you find a better deal, then do, say, the 3 best and see
>> if you're inspired to do more afterward.
>>
>> You might be able to finagle a volume discount too.
>
> When volume pricing is listed it's not all that special, but perhaps
> discussion with an actual human might be more rewarding...
>
>  --
> Cheers, Bev
>   "Calling someone an asshole for being rude to a telemarketer
>    is like accusing someone who's shot a burglar in his home
>    of being a poor host."                        -- W.S.Rowell

Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is removed
from replies. (As below).

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On Fri, 26 May 2023 14:13:15 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote as underneath :

>Or whatever. Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
>.mp4 or anything else useful? I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
>have lost their labels. $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
>ridiculous. I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
>hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
> It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
>movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
>and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>
>Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...

Long long time ago I did this with a lot of old 3 minute rolls, the
results wouldnt' win prizes but were acceptable for us. Old Kodachrome
was the source mainly with some Super8 (Fuji) and they all projected
very + yellow and + red. Zoom lenses helped to get the framing perfect.
Parallax correction by angling the projector and camera similarly either
side of center line.
Sync turned out not to be a problem so I cant remember any detail there.
Nowadays you would correct colour in post processing probably: but in
those days I projected on a mainly cyan A4 screen, colour mix printed by
trial and error. So it is possible at home if you are happy with less
than perfection! Of course the only sound is the rolling of the
projector.. C+

On 2023-05-28 08:36, Charlie+ wrote:
> On Fri, 26 May 2023 14:13:15 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
> wrote as underneath :
>
>> Or whatever. Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
>> .mp4 or anything else useful? I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
>> have lost their labels. $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
>> ridiculous. I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
>> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
>> It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
>> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
>> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>>
>> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...
>
> Long long time ago I did this with a lot of old 3 minute rolls, the
> results wouldnt' win prizes but were acceptable for us. Old Kodachrome
> was the source mainly with some Super8 (Fuji) and they all projected
> very + yellow and + red. Zoom lenses helped to get the framing perfect.
> Parallax correction by angling the projector and camera similarly either
> side of center line.
> Sync turned out not to be a problem so I cant remember any detail there.
> Nowadays you would correct colour in post processing probably: but in
> those days I projected on a mainly cyan A4 screen, colour mix printed by
> trial and error. So it is possible at home if you are happy with less
> than perfection! Of course the only sound is the rolling of the
> projector.. C+

You can project to a translucid glass, and shoot from behind, same axis.

And you can mute the sound on the video.

Maybe projector can be made to do a photo at a time, then perhaps sync
camera to it with a remote cable. Maybe somebody has done this before
and wrote about it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 5/27/23 5:54 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-05-26 23:13, The Real Bev wrote:
>> Or whatever.  Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
>> .mp4 or anything else useful?  I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
>> have lost their labels.  $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
>> ridiculous.  I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
>> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
>>  It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
>> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
>> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>>
>> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...
>>
>
> $15-$20 each is reasonable. That's your best option. Maybe you can get
> an offer for doing 50 rolls. It is what I did, on Blacks, but only 4 rolls.
>
> Another one is to rent the equipment to do it yourself.
>
> There are two possibilities:
>
> Project it "somewhere" and shot at it with a camera. Cheap and quick.
> Much better if you can rent somekind of compact thing to do it.
>
> Scan one photo at a time, but automatic. Then convert to movie. This
> is the absolute best. There are services that do this, I knew one on
> Australia, working world wide, and expensive. They had software to
> correct for errors and promised excellent quality.
>
> If you can rent a machine that does this, I would go for it. No idea of
> pricing.
>
> Oh, or buy that equipment second hand, then sell it again when you
> finish. Not my idea, I read of that somewhere. For fifty rolls, it
> should be reasonable.

Good idea. There MUST be a machine that does this...

A friend in Arkansas who built a house on a square mile right next to
the National Forest was told that the school would send a bus right to
his front door to pick up his girls if there were a place to turn
around. So he bought a used grader, made a suitable road and sold the
grader for what he paid for it.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Everything sucks; reverse the wires and everything will blow."
-- Desert Ed

On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:

> Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is removed
> from replies. (As below).

Yes, I know that. I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I was
editing. I promise to do better if you will forgive me.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Everything sucks; reverse the wires and everything will blow."
-- Desert Ed

On 5/28/23 3:58 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-05-28 08:36, Charlie+ wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 14:13:15 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
>> wrote as underneath :
>>
>>> Or whatever. Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to .avi or
>>> .mp4 or anything else useful? I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
>>> have lost their labels. $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
>>> ridiculous. I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
>>> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise ridiculous.
>>> It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
>>> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
>>> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>>>
>>> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...
>>
>> Long long time ago I did this with a lot of old 3 minute rolls, the
>> results wouldnt' win prizes but were acceptable for us. Old Kodachrome
>> was the source mainly with some Super8 (Fuji) and they all projected
>> very + yellow and + red. Zoom lenses helped to get the framing perfect.
>> Parallax correction by angling the projector and camera similarly either
>> side of center line.
>> Sync turned out not to be a problem so I cant remember any detail there.
>> Nowadays you would correct colour in post processing probably: but in
>> those days I projected on a mainly cyan A4 screen, colour mix printed by
>> trial and error. So it is possible at home if you are happy with less
>> than perfection! Of course the only sound is the rolling of the
>> projector.. C+
>
> You can project to a translucid glass, and shoot from behind, same axis.
>
> And you can mute the sound on the video.
>
>
> Maybe projector can be made to do a photo at a time, then perhaps sync
> camera to it with a remote cable. Maybe somebody has done this before
> and wrote about it.

Projectors run really hot; I suspect that if you ran the film through
that slowly you'd burn the film pretty quickly. You leave the fan
running for a minute or so after you turn off the bulb.

You may be too young to remember this -- when we had movies in school
the AV guys would sometimes deliberately burn the film just for fun.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Everything sucks; reverse the wires and everything will blow."
-- Desert Ed

On 2023-05-28 10:55, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is removed
>> from replies.  (As below).
>
> Yes, I know that.  I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I was
> editing.  I promise to do better if you will forgive me.

Makes sense. Didn't think I came down that hard on you. Forgive me for
net-copping.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-05-28 16:58, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/28/23 3:58 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-05-28 08:36, Charlie+ wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 14:13:15 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
>>> wrote as underneath :
>>>
>>>> Or whatever.  Is there any way to save your old Super8 movies to
>>>> .avi or
>>>> .mp4 or anything else useful?  I have at least 50 rolls, all of which
>>>> have lost their labels.  $15-$20 each to let some service do it is
>>>> ridiculous.  I tried a device that required me to feed the film in by
>>>> hand ans snap a picture every few frames, which was likewise
>>>> ridiculous.
>>>>   It's possible to project the movies and photograph them as a digital
>>>> movie, but projector bulbs are even more expensive and harder to find
>>>> and I would guess that there might be sync problems.
>>>>
>>>> Not much hope, but maybe somebody got lucky...
>>>
>>> Long long time ago I did this with a lot of old 3 minute rolls, the
>>> results wouldnt' win prizes but were acceptable for us. Old Kodachrome
>>> was the source mainly with some Super8 (Fuji) and they all projected
>>> very + yellow and + red. Zoom lenses helped to get the framing perfect.
>>> Parallax correction by angling the projector and camera similarly either
>>> side of center line.
>>> Sync turned out not to be a problem so I cant remember any detail there.
>>> Nowadays you would correct colour in post processing probably: but in
>>> those days I projected on a mainly cyan A4 screen, colour mix printed by
>>> trial and error.  So it is possible at home if you are happy with less
>>> than perfection! Of course the only sound is the rolling of the
>>> projector.. C+
>>
>> You can project to a translucid glass, and shoot from behind, same axis.
>>
>> And you can mute the sound on the video.
>>
>>
>> Maybe projector can be made to do a photo at a time, then perhaps sync
>> camera to it with a remote cable. Maybe somebody has done this before
>> and wrote about it.
>
> Projectors run really hot;  I suspect that if you ran the film through
> that slowly you'd burn the film pretty quickly.  You leave the fan
> running for a minute or so after you turn off the bulb.
>
> You may be too young to remember this -- when we had movies in school
> the AV guys would sometimes deliberately burn the film just for fun.

Actually, I know this very well, I was an amateur theatre 35mm
projectionist in the 80's. The lamp was a 65Amp electric arc (~2KW) and
would burn the film instantly if it stopped moving.

Yes, for this single photo shooting you need a special projector for a
small enough screen, and thus a non-powerful lamp. A monitor perhaps?
Nowdays it could be a LED. In ancient times, I heard of projectors that
had a running water tank, inside glass, in the light path just before
the film!

Consider that slide projectors are (were) static and did not burn the film.

Thus, a projector designed to project one photo at a time, in automated
sequence, would be designed for this. Not a normal, run of the mill,
projector. Mine would not do.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 5/28/23 10:45 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-05-28 10:55, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>> Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is removed
>>> from replies.  (As below).
>>
>> Yes, I know that.  I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I was
>> editing.  I promise to do better if you will forgive me.
>
> Makes sense. Didn't think I came down that hard on you. Forgive me for
> net-copping.

Of course! Aren't we all friends here? I MYSELF have actually
corrected others' posts upon occasion; the urge to fix things is
strong, and SOMEONE must maintain the standards.

--
Cheers, Bev
"In all recorded history there has not been one economist who has
had to worry about where the next meal would come from."
-- Peter S. Drucker, who invented management

On 2023-05-28 16:46, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/28/23 10:45 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-05-28 10:55, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is
>>>> removed
>>>> from replies.  (As below).
>>>
>>> Yes, I know that.  I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I was
>>> editing.  I promise to do better if you will forgive me.
>>
>> Makes sense.  Didn't think I came down that hard on you.  Forgive me for
>> net-copping.
>
> Of course!  Aren't we all friends here?  I MYSELF have actually
> corrected others' posts upon occasion;  the urge to fix things is
> strong, and SOMEONE must maintain the standards.

As I say to my SO when she yells at me to come to supper: "I'll be
there in a minute ... somebody said something wrong on the internet!"

(A line I saw in Bizarro or The Far Side).

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On Sun, 28 May 2023 12:58:31 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote as underneath :

snip
>
>You can project to a translucid glass, and shoot from behind, same axis.

Really? Have you actually done it or are you suggesting - there would be
a bright spot from the projector lens surely shooting down the same
axis?

>And you can mute the sound on the video.

Of course.

On 2023-05-29 07:47, Charlie+ wrote:
> On Sun, 28 May 2023 12:58:31 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote as underneath :
>
> snip
>>
>> You can project to a translucid glass, and shoot from behind, same axis.
>
> Really? Have you actually done it or are you suggesting - there would be
> a bright spot from the projector lens surely shooting down the same
> axis?

I haven't personally, but I heard of people doing it. Ok, I don't
actually know if they used translucid glass; wait, maybe that's the
wrong translation, DeepL says it is "frosted glass". The type of glass
used for the screen in reflex cameras.

>
>> And you can mute the sound on the video.
>
> Of course.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 5/28/23 1:54 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-05-28 16:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 5/28/23 10:45 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-05-28 10:55, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is
>>>>> removed
>>>>> from replies.  (As below).
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I know that.  I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I was
>>>> editing.  I promise to do better if you will forgive me.
>>>
>>> Makes sense.  Didn't think I came down that hard on you.  Forgive me for
>>> net-copping.
>>
>> Of course!  Aren't we all friends here?  I MYSELF have actually
>> corrected others' posts upon occasion;  the urge to fix things is
>> strong, and SOMEONE must maintain the standards.
>
> As I say to my SO when she yells at me to come to supper: "I'll be
> there in a minute ... somebody said something wrong on the internet!"
>
> (A line I saw in Bizarro or The Far Side).

:-)

'Karen' gets a bad name because of the reason she does things -- she
feels entitled because SHE is special in some way. The rest of us
suffer this insult because we actually want to correct error.

It's bred in the bone. We NOTICE stuff that's wrong and have an actual
need to, if not actually fix it, at least devise a solution. Long ago I
read where somebody said "The best job ever would be to just wander up
and down the halls and whenever I saw some I would stop and point and
yell BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT until somebody came and fixed it."

Yes, I WAS in QA. Why do you ask?

--
Cheers, Bev
"We need to cut more slack for the stupid; after all, somebody has
to populate the lower part of the bell curve." -- Dennis (evil)

On 30/05/2023 10:31 am, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/28/23 1:54 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-05-28 16:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 5/28/23 10:45 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-05-28 10:55, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is
>>>>>> removed
>>>>>> from replies.  (As below).
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I know that.  I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I
>>>>> was editing.  I promise to do better if you will forgive me.
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense.  Didn't think I came down that hard on you.  Forgive me
>>>> for
>>>> net-copping.
>>>
>>> Of course!  Aren't we all friends here?  I MYSELF have actually
>>> corrected others' posts upon occasion;  the urge to fix things is
>>> strong, and SOMEONE must maintain the standards.
>>
>> As I say to my SO when she yells at me to come to supper:  "I'll be
>> there in a minute ... somebody said something wrong on the internet!"
>>
>> (A line I saw in Bizarro or The Far Side).
>
> :-)
>
> 'Karen' gets a bad name because of the reason she does things -- she
> feels entitled because SHE is special in some way.  The rest of us
> suffer this insult  because we actually want to correct error.
>
> It's bred in the bone.  We NOTICE stuff that's wrong and have an actual
> need to, if not actually fix it, at least devise a solution.  Long ago I
> read where somebody said "The best job ever would be to just wander up
> and down the halls and whenever I saw some I would stop and point and
> yell BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT until somebody came and fixed it."
>
> Yes, I WAS in QA.  Why do you ask?
>

It's a bit like 'Woke'. Everybody who isn't any one of a redneck
misogynistic racist arsehole is apparently woke.

geoff

On May 30, 2023, geoff wrote
(in article<oK-dnc1CZISfDOj5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>):

> On 30/05/2023 10:31 am, The Real Bev wrote:
> > On 5/28/23 1:54 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> > > On 2023-05-28 16:46, The Real Bev wrote:
> > > > On 5/28/23 10:45 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
> > > > > On 2023-05-28 10:55, The Real Bev wrote:
> > > > > > On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is
> > > > > > > removed
> > > > > > > from replies. (As below).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, I know that. I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I
> > > > > > was editing. I promise to do better if you will forgive me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Makes sense. Didn't think I came down that hard on you. Forgive me
> > > > > for
> > > > > net-copping.
> > > >
> > > > Of course! Aren't we all friends here? I MYSELF have actually
> > > > corrected others' posts upon occasion; the urge to fix things is
> > > > strong, and SOMEONE must maintain the standards.
> > >
> > > As I say to my SO when she yells at me to come to supper: "I'll be
> > > there in a minute ... somebody said something wrong on the internet!"
> > >
> > > (A line I saw in Bizarro or The Far Side).
> >
> > > -)
> >
> > 'Karen' gets a bad name because of the reason she does things -- she
> > feels entitled because SHE is special in some way. The rest of us
> > suffer this insult because we actually want to correct error.
> >
> > It's bred in the bone. We NOTICE stuff that's wrong and have an actual
> > need to, if not actually fix it, at least devise a solution. Long ago I
> > read where somebody said "The best job ever would be to just wander up
> > and down the halls and whenever I saw some I would stop and point and
> > yell BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT until somebody came and fixed it."
> >
> > Yes, I WAS in QA. Why do you ask?
>
> It's a bit like 'Woke'. Everybody who isn't any one of a redneck
> misogynistic racist arsehole is apparently woke.
>
> Geoff

It seems that you feel that anyone who isn’t woke is a redneck
misogynistic racist arsehole. How is your thinking any less ignorant?

On 31/05/2023 3:00 am, Bill W wrote:
> On May 30, 2023, geoff wrote
> (in article<oK-dnc1CZISfDOj5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>):
>
>> On 30/05/2023 10:31 am, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 5/28/23 1:54 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-05-28 16:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> On 5/28/23 10:45 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-05-28 10:55, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is
>>>>>>>> removed
>>>>>>>> from replies. (As below).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I know that. I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I
>>>>>>> was editing. I promise to do better if you will forgive me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Makes sense. Didn't think I came down that hard on you. Forgive me
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> net-copping.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course! Aren't we all friends here? I MYSELF have actually
>>>>> corrected others' posts upon occasion; the urge to fix things is
>>>>> strong, and SOMEONE must maintain the standards.
>>>>
>>>> As I say to my SO when she yells at me to come to supper: "I'll be
>>>> there in a minute ... somebody said something wrong on the internet!"
>>>>
>>>> (A line I saw in Bizarro or The Far Side).
>>>
>>>> -)
>>>
>>> 'Karen' gets a bad name because of the reason she does things -- she
>>> feels entitled because SHE is special in some way. The rest of us
>>> suffer this insult because we actually want to correct error.
>>>
>>> It's bred in the bone. We NOTICE stuff that's wrong and have an actual
>>> need to, if not actually fix it, at least devise a solution. Long ago I
>>> read where somebody said "The best job ever would be to just wander up
>>> and down the halls and whenever I saw some I would stop and point and
>>> yell BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT until somebody came and fixed it."
>>>
>>> Yes, I WAS in QA. Why do you ask?
>>
>> It's a bit like 'Woke'. Everybody who isn't any one of a redneck
>> misogynistic racist arsehole is apparently woke.
>>
>> Geoff
>
> It seems that you feel that anyone who isn’t woke is a redneck
> misogynistic racist arsehole. How is your thinking any less ignorant?
>
>

No, the reverse scenario is not rationally the case, and was not my
suggestion.

geoff

On 2023-05-29 18:31, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/28/23 1:54 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-05-28 16:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 5/28/23 10:45 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-05-28 10:55, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> On 5/27/23 8:31 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pls start your comment block with dash-dash-space "-- " so it is
>>>>>> removed
>>>>>> from replies.  (As below).
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I know that.  I inadvertently damaged the sig-delimiter as I
>>>>> was editing.  I promise to do better if you will forgive me.
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense.  Didn't think I came down that hard on you.  Forgive me
>>>> for
>>>> net-copping.
>>>
>>> Of course!  Aren't we all friends here?  I MYSELF have actually
>>> corrected others' posts upon occasion;  the urge to fix things is
>>> strong, and SOMEONE must maintain the standards.
>>
>> As I say to my SO when she yells at me to come to supper:  "I'll be
>> there in a minute ... somebody said something wrong on the internet!"
>>
>> (A line I saw in Bizarro or The Far Side).
>
> :-)
>
> 'Karen' gets a bad name because of the reason she does things -- she
> feels entitled because SHE is special in some way.  The rest of us
> suffer this insult  because we actually want to correct error.

Depends on the Karen.

> It's bred in the bone.  We NOTICE stuff that's wrong and have an actual
> need to, if not actually fix it, at least devise a solution.  Long ago I
> read where somebody said "The best job ever would be to just wander up
> and down the halls and whenever I saw some I would stop and point and
> yell BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT until somebody came and fixed it."

Once you begin accounting for the cost of non-quality, improvements are
attended to. (In a company with a sober quality system.) Larger co's
do better at this than smaller co's.

> Yes, I WAS in QA.  Why do you ask?

QA engineer : "You don't get what you expect, you get what you inspect."

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-05-30 02:00, geoff wrote:

> It's a bit like 'Woke'. Everybody who isn't any one of a redneck
> misogynistic racist arsehole is apparently woke.

Most concise definition I've seen so far. Thanks.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-05-30 11:00, Bill W wrote:
> On May 30, 2023, geoff wrote

>> It's a bit like 'Woke'. Everybody who isn't any one of a redneck
>> misogynistic racist arsehole is apparently woke.
>>
>> Geoff
>
> It seems that you feel that anyone who isn’t woke is a redneck
> misogynistic racist arsehole. How is your thinking any less ignorant?

It's okay. He nailed it.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase