Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote

>> First, as I have pointed out, you can't reasonably compare a Google Pixel
>> to any iPhone because the iPhone is a toy in terms of what apps it can run.
>
> That depends on how to define "toy".

For _this_ thread, I already said we're going to ignore there is no such
thing as a "comparable iPhone" (as even my free Samsung Galaxy A32-5G has
far more app functionality than any iPhone ever made, Arno...) so that we
can spend our adult energies concentrating on discovering and propagating
useful technical information regarding comparable camera outputs.

Let's stick just with camera output - for which there are comparisons to be
made between what the iPhone can do and what every Android phone can do.

Bear in mind I've been using the Penguin GCam port for years on my Galaxy
and I find that it takes very good pictures - but I don't understand why.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/gcam-for-galaxy-a50-a51-tab-s6-and-more-penguingcam.4165437/post-84995933>

Hence, my questions of you in that regard, particularly of the Pixel.
*Pixel Camera* Google LLC, 2.7star,474K reviews,1+,Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.GoogleCamera>

Could I possibly be the _first_ person to ever download this new Pixel APK?
<https://i.postimg.cc/y6LDQ2Jn/first-pixel-camera-download.jpg>

>> However... if we agree to loudly ignore that the iPhone is crippled in app
>> functionality, then (and only then) can anyone do a comparison to Pixels.
>>
>> With your Pixel, you can use _any camera software_ you want to use, right?
>
> Well... in theory maybe. But not all camera apps work without any
> problems.

Thank you for getting to the answer instead of trying to defend Apple's
honor (which is all the iKooks ever do because they hate what Apple is).

I'm different than most people, Arno, in that I often write tutorials on
helping people with such things as the GCam ports, so your GCam Pixel
information is valuable to me as I'm a novice at digital camera output.
*Tutorial: Google GCam port for the Samsung Galaxy A32 5G*
<https://xdaforums.com/t/google-gcam-port-for-the-samsung-galaxy-a32-5g.4275449/>

Where my limitations on my camera are the lack of the necessary hardware.
NO LEVEL_3 hardware support
NO FULL hardware support
Yes LIMITED hardware support
NO EXTERNAL hardware support
NO LEGACY hardware support
NO UNKNOWN hardware support
NO Auto exposure, auto flash, red eye reduction
NO Auto focus EDOF focus modes
NO RAW capture
NO Optical stabilization modes
<https://xdaforums.com/t/gcam-for-galaxy-a50-a51-tab-s6-and-more-penguingcam.4165437/post-84995933>

Showing that, in the case of camera hardware, the latest iPhone is
indeed much better than my free Galaxy A32-5G in terms of what the
iPhone "camera" can do (as opposed to what the "iPhone" can do).

Since any adult discussion should proceed with knowledge in hand, I just
looked up what I've been referring to as "Google Camera" (or GCam for
short) where it seems Google just last month renamed it to "Pixel Camera".
*Google Camera is now Pixel Camera on the Play Store*
<https://9to5google.com/2023/10/13/google-pixel-camera-play-store/>
"Version 9.0 is the latest release for the Pixel Fold, Tablet, and 7 Pro.
The Pixel 8 and 8 Pro are running version 9.1 and getting a patch update
this evening."

For those of us on the lowly Samsung, we have to make do with GCam ports.
*Pixel Camera | GCam APK Port v9.1 | Google Camera Latest Download*
<https://cyanogenmods.org/google-camera/>
"Latest version is the v9.1.098 for which we also have some Google Camera
port APK version built by various developers which can be installed
on many Android phones.

> And when it comes to driver and library bugs... it took at
> least 1 major OS update and several app updates before "Camera One" was
> able to use the Camera2 API without crashing.

You bring up a good point about the Camera2 API which has been covered in
the Android newsgroup in the past (and in my tutorial on XDA Developers).

*GCam for Samsung Galaxy (PenguinGCam)*
<https://xdaforums.com/t/gcam-for-galaxy-a50-a51-tab-s6-and-more-penguingcam.4165437/post-84995933>

> And I am still not sure,
> if the app really uses the API correct - at least the pictures look ok.
> That app is a remote controlled camera app which I can use to use my
> Samsung Galaxy smartwatch to preview the camera and take a picture.
>
> Also OpenCamera presents the camera modules as individual cameras and
> some devices like the Fairphone 4 has some strange bugs where OpenCamera
> gets the TOF sensor also presented as "camera" and will crash when you
> accidentally select it.
>
> And finally you can not expect alternative camera apps to support all
> hardware features of the camera modules in the same way as the vendor
> provided camera app - like the TOF sensor found in some devices or using
> an 48 MP sensor with its native resolution to do crops from the image
> and not only with pixel binning.

You bring up a good point that the camera hardware is paramount in the
eventual best possible quality of the images and videos that it outputs.

For example, a quick search of "camera2 api" shows these related threads.
*Changing the camera app can remarkably improve your photo quality*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/r_I_vFF0TYA/>

*(rant) Android 11 removes camera choice*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Hf-sqEd5Ev8/>

*Is Astrophotography Coming to the iPhone 14/iOS 16?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Vb9C3Ao_7i8/>

Where those on Android can check their camera hardware with this app.
*Camera2 API Probe* by March Media Lab
free, adfree, gsf?,4.2 star 4.34K reviews 1M+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector

> And if you think there are no camera apps for iPhone, just two examples
> (but there are more):
>
> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/procam-8-pro-camera/id730712409>
> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/camera-pro-camera-editor/id1313580627>

Just to be doubly clear, I never once said there are no camera apps for the
iPhone and if you think I said that, you'll have to point to my words.

What I said is you can't run tons of useful apps on the iPhone such as
those which spoof GPS, or a system-wide firewall, or automatic phone
recording, or the privacy of the Tor Browser, or Torrent apps, or the
ability to change the launcher or set the default messenger, etc.

That list goes on for a looooooooooong time for what basic useful and
important functionality the iPhone can't possibly do (unjailbroken); but I
never once said that the iPhone can't install alternative camera apps.

Anyone who says I did would be a fool as only fools say things happened
that clearly didn't happen.

Having said that, I have tried many of the camera apps on Android but the
GCam port seems to take the best pictures, although being able to take B
exposure photos or delayed photos or triggered photos, etc., are features
of the other apps, so you need more than one camera app to do what you need
to do (such as taking double-exposures as one recent example).

>> Since your GCam is native, have you noticed your Pixel takes better photos
>> (using GCam) than a comparably sized Android with similar sized sensors?
>
> Well - "better" depends on the situation.
>
> I also had images with GCam which have really horrible artifacts because
> of the "AI" trying to "improve" image details where an older Xiaomi Mi 9
> Lite using OpenCamera was way better.
>
> But overall - yes the software is quite good and the "night sight" mode
> is also impressive.

I do very much love the GCam long-exposure night sight also, which I had
explained as "night mode" in this XDA GCam port tutorial from years ago.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/google-gcam-port-for-the-samsung-galaxy-a32-5g.4275449/post-84997857>

In summary, I appreciate that you're an adult who can discuss the merits of
the camera output of both the Pixel and the iPhone with an even hand.
--
Usenet is an approach to find people who know more than you do, & then to
discuss problems with them such that you learn from their added knowledge.

Wally J, 2023-11-07 08:43:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>>> First, as I have pointed out, you can't reasonably compare a Google Pixel
>>> to any iPhone because the iPhone is a toy in terms of what apps it can run.
>>
>> That depends on how to define "toy".
>
[...]
>>> With your Pixel, you can use _any camera software_ you want to use, right?

[...]

>> And if you think there are no camera apps for iPhone, just two examples
>> (but there are more):
>>
>> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/procam-8-pro-camera/id730712409>
>> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/camera-pro-camera-editor/id1313580627>
>
> Just to be doubly clear, I never once said there are no camera apps for the
> iPhone and if you think I said that, you'll have to point to my words.

See above: "... you can use _any camera software_ you want to use, right?"

Why mentioning this when you did not want to say that Apple does not
allow to use other camera apps?

So there are camera apps for Android and there are camer apps for iOS.

What's your point here?

And remember: I am an Android user. I only have an iPhone because I have
to use it for my work.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2023-11-07, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Wally J, 2023-11-07 08:43:
>
>> Just to be doubly clear, I never once said there are no camera apps
>> for the iPhone and if you think I said that, you'll have to point to
>> my words.
>
> See above: "... you can use _any camera software_ you want to use,
> right?"
>
> Why mentioning this when you did not want to say that Apple does not
> allow to use other camera apps?
>
> So there are camera apps for Android and there are camer apps for iOS.
>
> What's your point here?

His only point ever in any Apple newsgroup thread is "Apple sucks and
Apple users are suckers". Every word he writes here has that end goal in
mind.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote

> See above: "... you can use _any camera software_ you want to use, right?"
>
> Why mentioning this when you did not want to say that Apple does not
> allow to use other camera apps?
>
> So there are camera apps for Android and there are camer apps for iOS.
>
> What's your point here?
>
> And remember: I am an Android user. I only have an iPhone because I have
> to use it for my work.

The question was about the Pixel camera software which "enhances" pictures
which everyone can use "out of the box" (not requiring professionals).

I wasn't even hinting at the huge choice in camera utilities that Android
has over iOS as everyone knows about the paucity of iOS utilities, Arno.

BTW, while iPhone software choice always pales in comparison to Android and
while iPhone hardware is purposefully crippled compared to most Androids
(e.g., slots & ports), iPhone camera hardware is sometimes in the top 10.
<https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/> November 7th, 2023
1. Huawei P60 Pro $1058 Mar 2023 156 141 146 138
2. Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max $1199 Sep 2023 154 149 143 149
3. Apple iPhone 15 Pro $999 Sep 2023 154 142 149
4. Google Pixel 8 Pro $999 Oct 2023 153 145 142 154
5. Oppo Find X6 Pro $908 Mar 2023 153 128 140 151
6. Honor Magic5 Pro $1199 Feb 2023 152 123 138 151 141
7. Oppo Find X6 $681 Mar 2023 150 127 134
8. Huawei Mate 50 Pro $1299 Sep 2022 149 145 144 141 103
9. Google Pixel 8 $699 Oct 2023 148 140 154
10. Google Pixel 7 Pro $899 Oct 2022 147 142 137 146 102
11 Honor Magic4 Ultimate $1211 Mar 2022 147 122 140
12. Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max $1099 Sep 2022 146 145 142 149 133
13. Apple iPhone 14 Pro $999 Sep 2022 146 145 142 149 119
14. Apple iPhone 15 $799 Sep 2023 145 141 145
15. Apple iPhone 15 Plus $899 Sep 2023 145 141 144
16. Huawei P50 Pro $907 Jul 2021 143 144 119 135 123
17. Apple iPhone 13 Pro Max $1099 Sep 2021 141 134 139 145 136
18. Apple iPhone 13 Pro $999 Sep 2021 141 134 139 144 118
19. Xiaomi Mi 11 Ultra $1200 Mar 2021 141 125 119 124 108
20. Google Pixel 7 $599 Oct 2022 140 138 123 140 98
--
The best way to use Usenet is for people to be purposefully helpful.
That way each one of us pushes the tribal knowledge to a new level.

On 2023-11-06 23:43, Wally J wrote:
>> And if you think there are no camera apps for iPhone, just two examples
>> (but there are more):
>>
>> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/procam-8-pro-camera/id730712409>
>> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/camera-pro-camera-editor/id1313580627>
> Just to be doubly clear, I never once said there are no camera apps for the
> iPhone and if you think I said that, you'll have to point to my words.

"With your Pixel, you can use _any camera software_ you want to use, right?"

On 2023-11-07 09:12, Wally J wrote:
> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote
>
>> See above: "... you can use _any camera software_ you want to use, right?"
>>
>> Why mentioning this when you did not want to say that Apple does not
>> allow to use other camera apps?
>>
>> So there are camera apps for Android and there are camer apps for iOS.
>>
>> What's your point here?
>>
>> And remember: I am an Android user. I only have an iPhone because I have
>> to use it for my work.
>
> The question was about the Pixel camera software which "enhances" pictures
> which everyone can use "out of the box" (not requiring professionals).

And implicit (look it up) in that question was a tacit (look it up)
claim that the iPhone doesn't have other camera software.

>
> I wasn't even hinting at the huge choice in camera utilities that Android
> has over iOS as everyone knows about the paucity of iOS utilities, Arno.

You're not nearly as clever as you think you are.

>
> BTW, while iPhone software choice always pales in comparison to Android and
> while iPhone hardware is purposefully crippled compared to most Androids
> (e.g., slots & ports), iPhone camera hardware is sometimes in the top 10.

For "sometimes", substitute "almost always".