https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66707507

All this as giant hippos and the stealthy, deadly
predators, the Nile crocodiles, are in the water
nearby.

Residents say that with the lake getting bigger, the
crocodile population has increased and the waters are
now heavily infested with the predators. They say
there has also been an increase in the number of
hippos, who bathe near the shores and now even
closer to people's homesteads.

This has increased the risk to the lives of people,
and children have been dragged into the lake by
crocodiles, never to be seen again.

kudu runner:
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66707507
> All this as giant hippos and the stealthy, deadly
> predators, the Nile crocodiles, are in the water
> nearby. ...

This was no problem for human ancestors, of course, nor for kudu runners?
David Attenborough BBC 15.9.16 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg
https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> kudu runner:
> > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66707507
> > All this as giant hippos and the stealthy, deadly
> > predators, the Nile crocodiles, are in the water
> > nearby. ...
> This was no problem for human ancestors, of course, nor for kudu runners?

I can't understand why they obsess over this stuff. Clearly
humans exist. And just as clearly crocodiles exist. So the
existence of crocodiles, hippos or anything else can't be
mistaken as evidence against Aquatic Ape...

"Look! Oh, look! There were dangerous animals, inland,
in Africa, where we say humans evolved. That proves
they couldn't have evolved along the coast!"

It's just dumb. I mean, REALLY dumb.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/728024793991069696

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> kudu runner:
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66707507
>> All this as giant hippos and the stealthy, deadly
>> predators, the Nile crocodiles, are in the water
>> nearby. ...
>
> This was no problem for human ancestors, of course, nor for kudu runners?

Crocodiles and hippos weren't problems? :=}

> David Attenborough BBC 15.9.16 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg
> https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
>

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> Crocodiles and hippos weren't problems? :=}

Crocodiles, lions, hyenas... these are all vegans. If they
weren't, you seem to believe, all live would have gone
extinct millions of years ago...

Evolution deals with a population, not an individual.

This is basic stuff, btw. It's foundational. You need to
grasp this in order to weigh in on the topic.

It never matters how many individuals are lost, so
long as the population remains.

There are people who work this stuff out -- the
predator/prey ratio -- and you might talk to some of
them if you're curious. But for our purposes you
simply need to figure out that evolution deals with
a population, not individuals.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/728166607418949632

kudu runner:
> Crocodiles and hippos weren't problems? :=}

In savanna, yes (some imbeciles still believe their ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD), not in swamp forests.

David Attenborough BBC 15.9.16 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg
https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> Crocodiles and hippos weren't problems? :=}
>
> Crocodiles, lions, hyenas... these are all vegans. If they

Is that what they teach in film school?

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> kudu runner:
>> Crocodiles and hippos weren't problems? :=}
>
> In savanna, yes (some imbeciles still believe their ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD), not in swamp forests.
>
> David Attenborough BBC 15.9.16 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07v2ysg
> https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
>

Crocodiles can live in swamps...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_crocodile

As can hippos...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippopotamus

"Hippos inhabit rivers, lakes, and mangrove swamps."

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> Crocodiles can live in swamps...

Fascinating, or so I pretend.

If crocodiles negate the possibility of human habitation,
there's no such thing as humans.

You don't seem to grasp any of this.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/730359491090169856

Op maandag 9 oktober 2023 om 18:50:15 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:

> > Crocodiles can live in swamps...

> Fascinating, or so I pretend.
> If crocodiles negate the possibility of human habitation,
> there's no such thing as humans.
> You don't seem to grasp any of this.

Yes, these antelope runners are hopeless, JTEM.
We don't even come from Africa, but from S-Asia: we have no Pliocene African retroviral DNA.
https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

Biologically there's 0 doubt: at least 8 *independent* facts show:
H.erectus were originally predom.molluscivores:
• Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand and oral processing of marine mollusks", Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
• H.erectus s.s. fossilized typically?always in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto = barnacles & corals, Trinil = Pseudodon & Elongaria, Sangiran-17 = "brackish marsh near the coast".
• Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
• Ear exostoses (H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
• Pachy-osteo-sclerosis is only seen in slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
• Brain size in erectus (2x apes=australopiths) is facilitated by sea-food, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish etc., e.g. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
• Late-Pleistocene descendants or relatives colonized islands far oversea (fossils Flores 100–50 ka, Luzon 67 ka) https://www.academia..edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
• Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, cf. sea-otters etc.

Only *incredible* imbeciles still believe they descend from antilope runners... :-DDD
And australopiths were fossil hominids, relatives of Pan or Gorilla, of course, not Homo/hominin/Homininae/i... :-D
Google "aquarboreal".

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> We don't even come from Africa, but from S-Asia: we have no Pliocene African retroviral DNA.

Yes, but one might argue that they migrated into Africa and then, after Toba,
spilled back out.

The chromosome fusion likely put the breaks on interbreeding, and this
resulted in erectus proper. There could be no more interbreeding influencing
our evolution, until groups broke off, pushed inland, adapted to their new
environments AND THEN interbreed with the mother erectus population...

This is why so called "Moderns," Neandethals, Denisovans and erectus
(Java man?) were co fertile. They only splintered AFTER the chromosome
fusion.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/730359491090169856

Op donderdag 12 oktober 2023 om 06:38:00 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > We don't even come from Africa, but from S-Asia: we have no Pliocene African retroviral DNA.

> Yes, but one might argue that they migrated into Africa and then, after Toba,
> spilled back out.

Unnecessary assumption IMO.

> The chromosome fusion likely put the breaks on interbreeding, and this
> resulted in erectus proper. There could be no more interbreeding influencing
> our evolution, until groups broke off, pushed inland, adapted to their new
> environments AND THEN interbreed with the mother erectus population...
> This is why so called "Moderns," Neandethals, Denisovans and erectus
> (Java man?) were co fertile. They only splintered AFTER the chromosome
> fusion.

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > Yes, but one might argue that they migrated into Africa and then, after Toba,
> > spilled back out.

> Unnecessary assumption IMO.

Sundaland, the usual location identified as the origins in the "Out of Asia"
crowd, was Ground Zero with the Toba eruption, and the northern
hemisphere would have been devastated. The BEST place to weather the
Toba event was equatorial Africa. The equator gets the most energy from
the sun, and if you're near the coast the ocean moderates the climate and
offers a more consistent source of food.

Toba was recent though; a little over 70,000 years ago.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/731796353021247489

Op zondag 22 oktober 2023 om 05:15:12 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > Yes, but one might argue that they migrated into Africa and then, after Toba,
> > > spilled back out.

> > Unnecessary assumption IMO.

> Sundaland, the usual location identified as the origins in the "Out of Asia"
> crowd, was Ground Zero with the Toba eruption, and the northern
> hemisphere would have been devastated. The BEST place to weather the
> Toba event was equatorial Africa. The equator gets the most energy from
> the sun, and if you're near the coast the ocean moderates the climate and
> offers a more consistent source of food.
> Toba was recent though; a little over 70,000 years ago.

Doesn't the neandertal DNA in Eurasian people show that not all of them died out?

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> Doesn't the neandertal DNA in Eurasian people show
> that not all of them died out?

We're all hybrids. Neanderthals were hybrids, Denisovans were
hybrids and the so called "Moderns" were hybrids.

Cro Magnon was a hybrid. Wolpoff showed them becoming
more & more Neanderthal like, more & more modern...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/731734264911183872

JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> Crocodiles can live in swamps...
>
> Fascinating, or so I pretend.
>
> If crocodiles negate the possibility of human habitation,
> there's no such thing as humans.
>
> You don't seem to grasp any of this.

According to you, then, there are no elephants

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/crocodiles-attack-elephants/

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> > Primum Sapienti wrote:
> >
> >> Crocodiles can live in swamps...
> >
> > Fascinating, or so I pretend.
> >
> > If crocodiles negate the possibility of human habitation,
> > there's no such thing as humans.
> >
> > You don't seem to grasp any of this.

> According to you, then, there are no elephants

Have you been diagnosed? Lately?

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/732734215444201472

Op dinsdag 24 oktober 2023 om 03:32:46 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > Doesn't the neandertal DNA in Eurasian people show
> > that not all of them died out?

> We're all hybrids. Neanderthals were hybrids, Denisovans were
> hybrids and the so called "Moderns" were hybrids.
> Cro Magnon was a hybrid. Wolpoff showed them becoming
> more & more Neanderthal like, more & more modern...

Yes, wherever there was possible contact, there was interbreeding of closely related (sub)spp?

Darwin already stressed the importance of island-living & speciation: Galàpagos finches.

Is speciation mostly?often the result of geographical isolation?
mountain formation, seas, big rivers (not for birds), plate tectonics...

You know my hypotheses on hominoid speciations & plate tectonics?
:-)
- Arabafrica approaching Eurasia 30?25 Ma formed islands, rich in coastal forests:
some Catarrhini (e.g. already +-mangrove-dwelling?) reaching these islands became Hominoidea:
wading bipedally + climbing arms overhead in mangroves = aquarboreal,
- hylobatids first reached Eurasia c 20 Ma -> followed S.Asian coastal forests,
- the Mesopotamian Seaway Closure c 15 Ma split pongids (E) & hominids (W):
- pongids=sivapiths followed S.Asian coasts, forced hylobatids higher into the trees->brachiation,
- hominids=dryopiths followed Medit.coasts->rivers, e.g. bipedal footprints Trachilos Crete,
- hominids s.s. (HPG) colonized the incipient Red Sea mid-late-Miocene:
- Gorilla=Praeanthropus c 8 Ma followed the incipient northern-Rift -> Afar, still aquarboreal Lucy etc.
- c.5 Ma the Red Sea opened into the Gulf of Aden -> H/P split:
- Pan=Australopith.s.s. went right -> E.Afr.coast -> S-Rift -> Transvaal: africanus->robustus (// Gorilla),
- Pliocene Homo went left -> S.Asian coasts -> Java... from aquarboreal -> shallow-diving early-Pleist.?:
mostly for shellfish probably:
• archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear = "sand and oral processing of marine mollusks" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
• erectus fossilized in coastal sediments: Mojokerto barnacles + corals, Trinil Pseudodon + Elongaria edible shellfish, Sangiran-17 "brackish marsh near the coast"
• Stephen Munro found sea-shell engravings made by erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
• ear exostoses in erectus & neand. develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
• pachy-osteo-sclerosis = slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
• brain size in erectus (2x apes/australopiths) = aquatic foods, e.g. DHA, taurine etc. in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia, Enhydra...
• erectus' descendants/relatives colonized Flores & Luzon, far oversea https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
• archaic Homo: stone tool use & dexterity = molluscivory, e.g. sea-otter.

Concl.:
the antelope hunting "explanation" of human bipedality is the most stupid fantasy thinkable...

Marc Verhaegen wrote:

> • archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear = "sand and oral processing of marine mollusks"
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500

Not seeing any dates. But, it's 100% in line with Aquatic Ape.

> • Stephen Munro found sea-shell engravings made by erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/

Not sure if there's any significance to these so called engravings. But, this does go
a long ways to establish Aquatic Ape.

> Concl.:
> the antelope hunting "explanation" of human bipedality is the most stupid fantasy thinkable...

They've got everything upside down.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/732973247328583680

Op zaterdag 4 november 2023 om 00:59:47 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> Marc Verhaegen wrote:

> > • archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear = "sand and oral processing of marine mollusks"
> > https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
> Not seeing any dates. But, it's 100% in line with Aquatic Ape.
> > • Stephen Munro found sea-shell engravings made by erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231
> > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
> Not sure if there's any significance to these so called engravings. But, this does go
> a long ways to establish Aquatic Ape.
> > Concl.: the antelope hunting "explanation" of human bipedality is the most stupid fantasy thinkable...
> They've got everything upside down.

:-) Indeed: ego+afro+anthropo-centrism...
They're wrong everywhere, that makes it so difficult for us.
- australopiths are Pan or Gorilla ancestors,
- Afr.apes evolved in parallel, e.g. knuckle-walking,
- early-Pleist.Homo came from S-Asia, not Africa,
- Miocene Hominoidea were already bipedal (aquarboreal),
- there never was a savanna phase,
- etc.

JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
>

[OCPD]

Yeah, the FBI has been informed about you... can't
take any risks.

So, anyway, you are a blithering idiot, quoting
things you never read, much less understood, and
that's why you can't answer even basis questions.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:17:33 -0800 (PST), Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhaegen@skynet.be> wrote:

>The only "argument" of kudu runners:
>
>> Yeah, the FBI has been informed about you... can't
>> take any risks.
>> So, anyway, you are a blithering idiot, quoting
>> things you never read, much less understood, and
>> that's why you can't answer even basis questions.
>
>:-D
>
>No scientist doubts early-Pleistocene Homo were molluscivores:

Really? A case of convergent evolution?
Let's see what that looks like:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Walrus_skeleton.jpg

https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/knm-wt-15000

It's obvious that there's a major difference between a specialized
mammalian molluscivore and a terrestrial omnivore that consumes
molluscs occassionally as part of a much broader diet.

Op maandag 13 november 2023 om 16:19:12 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:17:33 -0800 (PST), Marc Verhaegen
> <m_ver...@skynet.be> wrote:

> >The only "argument" of kudu runners:

> >> Yeah, the FBI has been informed about you... can't
> >> take any risks.
> >> So, anyway, you are a blithering idiot, quoting
> >> things you never read, much less understood, and
> >> that's why you can't answer even basis questions.

> >:-D No scientist doubts early-Pleistocene Homo were molluscivores:

The kudu runner first snipped the facts, and "answered":

> Really? A case of convergent evolution?
> Let's see what that looks like:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Walrus_skeleton.jpg
> https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/knm-wt-15000

Snipped evidence:
no doubt, early-Pleist.H.erectus on Java dived for shellfish:
• Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks" Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
• H.erectus s.s. = coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto barnacles + corals, Trinil Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish), Sangiran-17 "brackish marsh near the coast".
• Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
• Ear exostoses (H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
• Pachy-osteo-sclerosis = slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
• Brain size in erectus (2x apes/australopiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia, Enhydra.
• Platycephaly in erectus/neand.: long, flat, dorsally-shifted brain-skull = hydrodynamic streamline, google GondwanaTalks Verhaegen English
• Pleist.descendants/relatives colonized islands far oversea, e.g. Flores, Luzon https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
• Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters
etc.

See 2022 book, google e.g.
-GondwanaTalks Verhaegen English
-David Attenborough Marc Verhaegen

Primum Sapienti wrote:
[...]

Nothing has changed.

You're testifying to the existence of frightful dangers on your
precious savanna, all the while claiming that the waterside
environment, with it's less work and greater availability of
proteins and all the DHA they needed (and then some) was
too dangerous...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/730359491090169856

Pandora wrote:

> Marc Verhaegen

> >No scientist doubts early-Pleistocene Homo were molluscivores:

> Really? A case of convergent evolution?
> Let's see what that looks like:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Walrus_skeleton.jpg

What do you find inconsistent? The tusks? They're not for eating molluscs, if
that was what you're thinking. And if it's not, then you haven't made any
argument what so ever. As per your usual, you post a randomly selected "Cite"
and demand that we guess at what you mean.

> https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/knm-wt-15000

> It's obvious that there's a major difference between a specialized
> mammalian molluscivore and a terrestrial omnivore that consumes
> molluscs occassionally as part of a much broader diet.

Homo was diversified, you blithering idiot.

Savanna morons believe that so called "Modern Man" fell out of the sky one
day, probably a Tuesday, and then immediately trekked across the globe
killing all the other Homos they could find. And because you're all such morons,
you simply replace the savanna for a beach and pretend that's what Aquatic
Ape says.

And that's incredibly stupid.

Your model never worked, and it's never what Aquatic Ape realists claimed.

Look at Multi Regionalism/Regional Continuity. It's true. It's why we have
all these distinct populations in the first place. And Aquatic Ape
tells us the HOW: As groups split off, for various reasons, and pushed
inland, they adapted to their new environments. They interbred, became
the prehistoric rendition of our ethnicities and races, linked only by
the Aquatic Ape population.

Aquatic Ape was the conduit through which DNA and cultural influences
flowed...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/733754887680196608