Scarier than lions. I bet that's been imprinted on these animals at
least since Homo erectus.

https://phys.org/news/2023-10-human-super-predator-pervades-south.html

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(23)01169-7

Pandora wrote:
> Scarier than lions. I bet that's been imprinted on these animals at
> least since Homo erectus.
>
> https://phys.org/news/2023-10-human-super-predator-pervades-south.html
>
> https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(23)01169-7
>

Also interesting, this just out

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-39776-1
Computer simulation of scavenging by hominins and
giant hyenas in the late Early Pleistocene

Abstract
Consumption of animal-sourced food is an important
factor in broadening the diet of early hominins,
promoting brain and body growth, and increasing
behavioural complexity. However, whether early
hominins obtained animal food by scavenging or
hunting large mammals remains debated. Sabre-toothed
felids have been proposed to facilitate the
expansion of early Homo out of Africa into Europe
1.4–0.8 Ma by creating a niche for scavengers in
Eurasia as the carcasses abandoned by these felids
still contained abundant edible resources. In
contrast, it has been argued that the niche for a
large scavenger was already occupied in Eurasia by
the giant hyena, preventing hominins from utilising
this resource. This study shows that sabre-toothed
felids generated carcasses rich in edible resources
and that hominins were capable of competing with
giant hyenas for this resource. The simulation
experiments showed that maintaining an optimum group
size is essential for the success of the hominin
scavenging strategy. Early hominins could outcompete
giant hyenas only if they could successfully dispute
carcasses with them. Thus, in the presence of a
strong competitor, passive scavenging is
essentially the same as confrontational scavenging.

On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 23:27:38 -0600, Primum Sapienti
<invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Pandora wrote:
>> Scarier than lions. I bet that's been imprinted on these animals at
>> least since Homo erectus.
>>
>> https://phys.org/news/2023-10-human-super-predator-pervades-south.html
>>
>> https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(23)01169-7
>>
>
>Also interesting, this just out
>
>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-39776-1
>Computer simulation of scavenging by hominins and
>giant hyenas in the late Early Pleistocene

Notice that in one of the video's even the leopard drops its prey and
runs when it hears a human voice. That's a free meal!

On 7.10.2023. 11:35, Pandora wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 23:27:38 -0600, Primum Sapienti
> <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Pandora wrote:
>>> Scarier than lions. I bet that's been imprinted on these animals at
>>> least since Homo erectus.
>>>
>>> https://phys.org/news/2023-10-human-super-predator-pervades-south.html
>>>
>>> https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(23)01169-7
>>>
>>
>> Also interesting, this just out
>>
>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-39776-1
>> Computer simulation of scavenging by hominins and
>> giant hyenas in the late Early Pleistocene
>
> Notice that in one of the video's even the leopard drops its prey and
> runs when it hears a human voice. That's a free meal!

Of course, if you happen to be near by. Hyenas follow leopards all the
time, so when leopard eats, one hyena calls for the other, and those two
hyenas steal the prey from leopard. This is how hyenas feed. Humans
cannot follow leopard (if for no other reason, humans get hungry
sooner). Especially not a bunch of humans. In the above example we have
two hyenas eating. For a bunch of humans you need more food.
Also, there is a sound that is scary for humans, a sound produced by
tiny animal:
https://youtu.be/xWHYmNrAFlI?si=Mu9cbc9NrKNGQYWr&t=69
https://youtu.be/mF3rPvzTPF4?si=_zodkI5Jy-r--aXI
But, you will not understand any of it, anyway.

Op zaterdag 7 oktober 2023 om 07:27:46 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:
> Pandora wrote:
> > Scarier than lions. I bet that's been imprinted on these animals at
> > least since Homo erectus.

:-DDD PS & Pandora scavenged...
That's why they're so smart...

H.erectus were originally predom.molluscivores, my little boys:
• Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks", Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
• H.erectus s.s. typically fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto: barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish), Sangiran-17: "brackish marsh near the coast".
• Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
• Ear exostoses (H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
• Pachy-osteo-sclerosis is only seen in slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
• Brain size in erectus (2x apes=apiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
• Late-Pleistocene descendants or relatives colonized Flores 100–50 ka & Luzon 67 ka https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
• Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters.
Etc.etc.
Perhaps your ancestors scavenged, but not mine. :-DDD

On 12.10.2023. 15:37, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zaterdag 7 oktober 2023 om 07:27:46 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:
>> Pandora wrote:
>>> Scarier than lions. I bet that's been imprinted on these animals at
>>> least since Homo erectus.
>
> :-DDD PS & Pandora scavenged...
> That's why they're so smart...
>
> H.erectus were originally predom.molluscivores, my little boys:
> • Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks", Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
> • H.erectus s.s. typically fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto: barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish), Sangiran-17: "brackish marsh near the coast".
> • Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
> • Ear exostoses (H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
> • Pachy-osteo-sclerosis is only seen in slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
> • Brain size in erectus (2x apes=apiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
> • Late-Pleistocene descendants or relatives colonized Flores 100–50 ka & Luzon 67 ka https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
> • Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters.
> Etc.etc.
> Perhaps your ancestors scavenged, but not mine. :-DDD

My ancestors stole eggs, I am absolutely sure about that, I adore
eggs, :) .

On 13.10.2023. 10:20, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op donderdag 12 oktober 2023 om 19:38:30 UTC+2 schreef Mario Petrinovic:
>> On 12.10.2023. 15:37, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Op zaterdag 7 oktober 2023 om 07:27:46 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:
>>>> Pandora wrote:
>>>>> Scarier than lions. I bet that's been imprinted on these animals at
>>>>> least since Homo erectus.
>
>>> :-DDD PS & Pandora scavenged... That's why they're so smart...
>>> H.erectus were originally predom.molluscivores, my little boys:
>>> • Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks", Towle cs 2022 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
>>> • H.erectus s.s. typically fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto: barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish), Sangiran-17: "brackish marsh near the coast".
>>> • Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
>>> • Ear exostoses (H.erectus & H.neand.) develop after years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
>>> • Pachy-osteo-sclerosis is only seen in slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120), e.g. erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
>>> • Brain size in erectus (2x apes=apiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
>>> • Late-Pleistocene descendants or relatives colonized Flores 100–50 ka & Luzon 67 ka https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
>>> • Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters. Etc.etc.
>>> Perhaps your ancestors scavenged, but not mine. :-DDD
>
>> My ancestors stole eggs, I am absolutely sure about that, I adore eggs, :) .
>
> :-) Most egg-eaters don't have huge brains, and you don't need stones to open eggs.

Who needs huge brains anyway? Useless weight.

Op vrijdag 13 oktober 2023 om 14:26:07 UTC+2 schreef Mario Petrinovic:
> On 13.10.2023. 10:20, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

H.erectus were originally predom.molluscivores:
• Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
• H.erectus s.s fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto: barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish) etc.
• Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
• Ear exostoses (H.erectus & neand.) = years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
• Pachy-osteo-sclerosis = slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120): erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
• Brain size in erectus (2x apes=apiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
• Late-Pleist.descendants/relatives colonized Flores & Luzon https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
• Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters. Etc.etc.

> >>> Perhaps your ancestors scavenged, but not mine. :-DDD

> >> My ancestors stole eggs, I am absolutely sure about that, I adore eggs, :) .

> > :-) Most egg-eaters don't have huge brains, and you don't need stones to open eggs.

> Who needs huge brains anyway? Useless weight.

Yes, see bees & other insects with minuscule brains, flying (muscle control), finding+collecting foods, making nests, procreating etc.

On 14.10.2023. 18:36, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op vrijdag 13 oktober 2023 om 14:26:07 UTC+2 schreef Mario Petrinovic:
>> On 13.10.2023. 10:20, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> H.erectus were originally predom.molluscivores:
> • Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
> • H.erectus s.s fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto: barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish) etc.
> • Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
> • Ear exostoses (H.erectus & neand.) = years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
> • Pachy-osteo-sclerosis = slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120): erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
> • Brain size in erectus (2x apes=apiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
> • Late-Pleist.descendants/relatives colonized Flores & Luzon https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
> • Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters. Etc.etc.
>
>>>>> Perhaps your ancestors scavenged, but not mine. :-DDD
>
>>>> My ancestors stole eggs, I am absolutely sure about that, I adore eggs, :) .
>
>>> :-) Most egg-eaters don't have huge brains, and you don't need stones to open eggs.
>
>> Who needs huge brains anyway? Useless weight.
>
> Yes, see bees & other insects with minuscule brains, flying (muscle control), finding+collecting foods, making nests, procreating etc.

What is even more valuable (thinking wise), they are, I believe, the
only other animal that have real communication.

Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2023 om 20:20:37 UTC+2 schreef Mario Petrinovic:
> On 14.10.2023. 18:36, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Op vrijdag 13 oktober 2023 om 14:26:07 UTC+2 schreef Mario Petrinovic:
> >> On 13.10.2023. 10:20, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > H.erectus were originally predom.molluscivores:
> > • Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
> > • H.erectus s.s fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto: barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish) etc.
> > • Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih..gov/25470048/
> > • Ear exostoses (H.erectus & neand.) = years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
> > • Pachy-osteo-sclerosis = slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120): erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
> > • Brain size in erectus (2x apes=apiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
> > • Late-Pleist.descendants/relatives colonized Flores & Luzon https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
> > • Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters. Etc.etc.

> >>>>> Perhaps your ancestors scavenged, but not mine. :-DDD

> >>>> My ancestors stole eggs, I am absolutely sure about that, I adore eggs, :) .

> >>> :-) Most egg-eaters don't have huge brains, and you don't need stones to open eggs.

> >> Who needs huge brains anyway? Useless weight.

> > Yes, see bees & other insects with minuscule brains, flying (muscle control), finding+collecting foods, making nests, procreating etc.

> What is even more valuable (thinking wise), they are, I believe, the
> only other animal that have real communication.

You underestimate other animals? --marc

On 15.10.2023. 0:55, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2023 om 20:20:37 UTC+2 schreef Mario Petrinovic:
>> On 14.10.2023. 18:36, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Op vrijdag 13 oktober 2023 om 14:26:07 UTC+2 schreef Mario Petrinovic:
>>>> On 13.10.2023. 10:20, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> H.erectus were originally predom.molluscivores:
>>> • Archaic Homo's atypical tooth-wear was caused by "sand & oral processing of marine mollusks" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.24500
>>> • H.erectus s.s fossilized in coastal sediments, e.g. Mojokerto: barnacles + corals, Trinil: Pseudodon + Elongaria (edible shellfish) etc.
>>> • Stephen Munro discovered sea-shell engravings made by H.erectus, Joordens cs 2015 Nature 518:228–231 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25470048/
>>> • Ear exostoses (H.erectus & neand.) = years of cold(er) water irrigation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5696936/
>>> • Pachy-osteo-sclerosis = slow+shallow-diving tetrapods (de Buffrénil cs 2010 J.Mamm.Evol.17:101-120): erectus’ parietal bone is 2x as thick as in gorillas.
>>> • Brain size in erectus (2x apes=apiths) is facilitated by aquatic foods, e.g. DHA docosahexaenoic acid in shellfish… cf. Odontocetes, Pinnipedia.
>>> • Late-Pleist.descendants/relatives colonized Flores & Luzon https://www.academia.edu/36193382/Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo_2018
>>> • Homo’s stone tool use & dexterity is typical for molluscivores, e.g. sea-otters. Etc.etc.
>
>>>>>>> Perhaps your ancestors scavenged, but not mine. :-DDD
>
>>>>>> My ancestors stole eggs, I am absolutely sure about that, I adore eggs, :) .
>
>>>>> :-) Most egg-eaters don't have huge brains, and you don't need stones to open eggs.
>
>>>> Who needs huge brains anyway? Useless weight.
>
>>> Yes, see bees & other insects with minuscule brains, flying (muscle control), finding+collecting foods, making nests, procreating etc.
>
>> What is even more valuable (thinking wise), they are, I believe, the
>> only other animal that have real communication.
>
> You underestimate other animals? --marc

I believe I took this idea from somewhere. I said this just to
emphasize that size doesn't matter that much, as scientists usually
think. The size of brain, I meant, :) . In general, I don't
underestimate animals. And definitely I don't overestimate humans. I
consider humans being just an regular animal. I really don't see where
from any irregularity would come, and, as far as I know, nobody ever
pointed to anything specific, or the reason why would this apply
specifically to humans. We are just an animal which has 10 fingers and
the ability for vocal communication, which we developed for, probably,
10 my (if not even longer). Also, there could be a point when vocal
communication could expand exponentially, if you achieve certain level
of it. Why not? When vocal communication is rude, it develops slowly,
after all, it is based only on limited abilities, but, after some time
those abilities expand, and then it can develop enormously, it is just
the nature of the beast. When you start to play guitar you can only play
"Smoke on the water", but once you achieve certain level suddenly you
can play anything (I presume, I am still on the "Smoke on the water"
level, :) ).