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tech / sci.lang / Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry

SubjectAuthor
* (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming HenHanna
`* Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhymHenHanna
 `* Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhymChristian Weisgerber
  `* Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhymHenHanna
   `* Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhymRuud Harmsen
    `* Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhymHenHanna
     `- Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhymRuud Harmsen

1
(The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry

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From: HenHanna@gmail.com (HenHanna)
Newsgroups: fj.sci.lang,sci.lang,sci.lang.translation
Subject: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) --
EYE rhyming with Symmetry
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 by: HenHanna - Sun, 18 Feb 2024 22:11 UTC

(The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) --
EYE rhyming with Symmetry?

(The Tyger by William Blake) -- Could someone point me towards an
[Authentic] pronunciation version (recording, commentary) which makes
EYE rhyme with Symmetry?

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43687/the-tyger

The Tyger by William Blake | Poetry Foundation

( Launch Audio in a New Window )

BY WILLIAM BLAKE

Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
In the forests of the night;

What immortal hand or eye,
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry

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From: HenHanna@gmail.com (HenHanna)
Newsgroups: fj.sci.lang,sci.lang,sci.lang.translation
Subject: Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE
rhyming with Symmetry
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2024 22:41:48 +0000
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 by: HenHanna - Tue, 20 Feb 2024 22:41 UTC

Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
In the forests of the night;

What immortal hand or eye,
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

Was the last vowel in Symmetry... fully like EYE, RYE ?

or more like (today's) RAY ?

Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry

<slrnutd1gf.ifi.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>

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From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation
(recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 23:23:59 -0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <slrnutd1gf.ifi.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Wed, 21 Feb 2024 23:23 UTC

On 2024-02-20, HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
> In the forests of the night;
>
> What immortal hand or eye,
> Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
>
> Was the last vowel in Symmetry... fully like EYE, RYE ?

Yes, that's the common wisdom. Didn't they already teach you that
in high school?

"Symmetry" and "geometry" were borrowed from French into Middle
English. If they retained word final primary or secondary stress,
you get /iː/ > /aɪ/ as part of the Great Vowel Shift.

It's not just the vowel quality. The scansion demands a stressed
syllable:

Whát immórtal hánd or éye
Could fráme thy féarful sýmmetrý?

I'm actually surprised that none of the poem's readings by famous
actors that I checked on YouTube rhymed it.

I am reminded of Michael Jackson's hit "Thriller" that contains
a spoken word passage performed by Vincent Price:

Darkness falls across the land
The midnight hour is close at hand
Creatures crawl in search of blood
To terrorize y'all's neighborhood
And whomsoever shall be found
Without the soul for getting down
Must stand and face the hounds of hell
And rot inside a corpse's shell

"Blood" and "neighborhood" don't rhyme, but it looks like they
should? It turns out the song was written by Rod Temperton, who
was from Lincolnshire, England. That's oop north, which makes me
suspect that he originally did rhyme those lines.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry

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From: HenHanna@gmail.com (HenHanna)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording)
-- EYE rhyming with Symmetry
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:32:44 -0800
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 by: HenHanna - Thu, 22 Feb 2024 01:32 UTC

On 2/21/2024 3:23 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2024-02-20, HenHanna wrote:
>
>> Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
>> In the forests of the night;
>>
>> What immortal hand or eye,
>> Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
>>
>> Was the last vowel in Symmetry... fully like EYE, RYE ?
>
> Yes, that's the common wisdom. Didn't they already teach you that
> in high school?

Maybe, but it was long time ago... Did you learn it in high school?

>
> "Symmetry" and "geometry" were borrowed from French into Middle
> English. If they retained word final primary or secondary stress,
> you get /iː/ > /aɪ/ as part of the Great Vowel Shift.
>
> It's not just the vowel quality. The scansion demands a stressed
> syllable:
>
> Whát immórtal hánd or éye
> Could fráme thy féarful sýmmetrý?
>
> I'm actually surprised that none of the poem's readings by famous
> actors that I checked on YouTube rhymed it.
>

in one YouTube clip, a guy read it twice, first in RP, second in his
"Northern" pronunciation.

in another, longer clip, the Scottish guy did talk about the last vowel
in Symmetry.

Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry

<qp9etidju2jbel26msomoq2kv2jdmems2p@4ax.com>

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From: rh@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 11:51:50 +0100
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Thu, 22 Feb 2024 10:51 UTC

Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:32:44 -0800: HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com>
scribeva:

>in one YouTube clip, a guy read it twice, first in RP, second in his
>"Northern" pronunciation.
>
>
>in another, longer clip, the Scottish guy did talk about the last vowel
>in Symmetry.

Links might help?
--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry

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From: HenHanna@gmail.com (HenHanna)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE
rhyming with Symmetry
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 11:52:40 +0000
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 by: HenHanna - Thu, 22 Feb 2024 11:52 UTC

Ruud Harmsen wrote:

> Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:32:44 -0800: HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com>
> scribeva:

>>in one YouTube clip, a guy read it twice, first in RP, second in his
>>"Northern" pronunciation.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3V_zcyRUYc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvAkFbuFX8A
>>
>>in another, longer clip, the Scottish guy did talk about the last vowel
>>in Symmetry.

> Links might help?

Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry

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Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (The Tyger by Wm.Blake) -- [Authentic] pronunciation (recording) -- EYE rhyming with Symmetry
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Thu, 22 Feb 2024 13:15 UTC

Thu, 22 Feb 2024 11:52:40 +0000: HenHanna@gmail.com (HenHanna)
scribeva:

>Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
>> Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:32:44 -0800: HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com>
>> scribeva:
>
>>>in one YouTube clip, a guy read it twice, first in RP, second in his
>>>"Northern" pronunciation.
>>>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3V_zcyRUYc
>
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvAkFbuFX8A

Thanks.

>>>
>>>in another, longer clip, the Scottish guy did talk about the last vowel
>>>in Symmetry.
>
>> Links might help?

--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

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