On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-6, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> Michael Trew wrote:
> > On 12/7/2022 19:44, The Real Bev wrote:
> >> On 12/7/22 3:08 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a traditional AT&T land line in Ohio (former Ameritech). It's
> > now $45/mo after tax for basic unlimited local calling, no long
> > distance, no features. The price increases are starting to get out of
> > control. I don't trust VoIP services like MagicJack or Ooma.
> I got rid of the ATT landline about 5 years ago for the same cost
> reason. ATT kept going up in cost and when it hit $65 for basic service
> I had it turned off. I have a Verizon flip phone with unlimited USA
> voice calling. Txt, video, picture is unlimited free. It can connect
> via wifi for free so it also has free email but I rarely use that. Data
> has a 500 meg free limit per month and my usage is 5 megs per month. I
> had everything else turned off. My cost is $35 per month including tax.
> Calling foreign countries is 10 cents / min so I call friends around
> the world for $2 for 20 min each at Christmas. My job requires me to be
> on the phone every day for about 3000 minutes per month so the cell
> phone is invaluable. I also travel North America for work and when in
> Canada or places that don't have cell or wifi I use a small satellite to
> wifi to my phone or to the laptop device.
> > I don't have a smart phone. I'm still milking an ancient Nokia 3395, on
> > the barely-functional T-Mobile 2G network.
> >
> > There are a number of people with the old "Gold Rewards" legacy T-mobile
> > plan on this website, myself (occasionally) included:
> >
> > https://howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/343-T-Mobile-prepaid?s=c00a41fa2e72bbff927e6723bead423d
> >
I got rid of my land line as well.

A couple of advantages I noticed with land lines.

1. They stay up when hurricanes damage cell phone towers
2. They have their own voltage source (48 Volts)

Cell phones are going downhill as far as useful features.

1. Most no longer have a headphone jack
2. Batteries are no longer replaceable by the consumer
3. Same with memory cards

Andy

On 4/2/2023 4:17 AM, AK wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-6, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>> Michael Trew wrote:
>>> On 12/7/2022 19:44, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 12/7/22 3:08 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a traditional AT&T land line in Ohio (former Ameritech). It's
>>> now $45/mo after tax for basic unlimited local calling, no long
>>> distance, no features. The price increases are starting to get out of
>>> control. I don't trust VoIP services like MagicJack or Ooma.
>> I got rid of the ATT landline about 5 years ago for the same cost
>> reason. ATT kept going up in cost and when it hit $65 for basic service
>> I had it turned off. I have a Verizon flip phone with unlimited USA
>> voice calling. Txt, video, picture is unlimited free. It can connect
>> via wifi for free so it also has free email but I rarely use that. Data
>> has a 500 meg free limit per month and my usage is 5 megs per month. I
>> had everything else turned off. My cost is $35 per month including tax.
>> Calling foreign countries is 10 cents / min so I call friends around
>> the world for $2 for 20 min each at Christmas. My job requires me to be
>> on the phone every day for about 3000 minutes per month so the cell
>> phone is invaluable. I also travel North America for work and when in
>> Canada or places that don't have cell or wifi I use a small satellite to
>> wifi to my phone or to the laptop device.
>>> I don't have a smart phone. I'm still milking an ancient Nokia 3395, on
>>> the barely-functional T-Mobile 2G network.
>>>
>>> There are a number of people with the old "Gold Rewards" legacy T-mobile
>>> plan on this website, myself (occasionally) included:
>>>
>>> https://howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/343-T-Mobile-prepaid?s=c00a41fa2e72bbff927e6723bead423d
>>>
> I got rid of my land line as well.
>
> A couple of advantages I noticed with land lines.
>
> 1. They stay up when hurricanes damage cell phone towers
> 2. They have their own voltage source (48 Volts)
>
> Cell phones are going downhill as far as useful features.
>
> 1. Most no longer have a headphone jack
> 2. Batteries are no longer replaceable by the consumer
> 3. Same with memory cards
>
> Andy
>

+1
There's a lot to be said for a redundant separate system.
It's a travesty that the copper lines are being removed.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/2/23 7:25 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/2/2023 4:17 AM, AK wrote:
>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-6, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>>> Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> On 12/7/2022 19:44, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> On 12/7/22 3:08 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a traditional AT&T land line in Ohio (former Ameritech). It's
>>>> now $45/mo after tax for basic unlimited local calling, no long
>>>> distance, no features. The price increases are starting to get out of
>>>> control. I don't trust VoIP services like MagicJack or Ooma.
>>> I got rid of the ATT landline about 5 years ago for the same cost
>>> reason. ATT kept going up in cost and when it hit $65 for basic service
>>> I had it turned off. I have a Verizon flip phone with unlimited USA
>>> voice calling. Txt, video, picture is unlimited free. It can connect
>>> via wifi for free so it also has free email but I rarely use that. Data
>>> has a 500 meg free limit per month and my usage is 5 megs per month. I
>>> had everything else turned off. My cost is $35 per month including tax.
>>> Calling foreign countries is 10 cents / min so I call friends around
>>> the world for $2 for 20 min each at Christmas. My job requires me to be
>>> on the phone every day for about 3000 minutes per month so the cell
>>> phone is invaluable. I also travel North America for work and when in
>>> Canada or places that don't have cell or wifi I use a small satellite to
>>> wifi to my phone or to the laptop device.
>>>> I don't have a smart phone. I'm still milking an ancient Nokia 3395, on
>>>> the barely-functional T-Mobile 2G network.
>>>>
>>>> There are a number of people with the old "Gold Rewards" legacy T-mobile
>>>> plan on this website, myself (occasionally) included:

$10/year for occasional use is perfect. I live in fear that they will
eliminate this because their bookkeeping costs more than their income
from it.

>>>> https://howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/343-T-Mobile-prepaid?s=c00a41fa2e72bbff927e6723bead423d
>>>>
>> I got rid of my land line as well.
>>
>> A couple of advantages I noticed with land lines.
>>
>> 1. They stay up when hurricanes damage cell phone towers
>> 2. They have their own voltage source (48 Volts)
>>
>> Cell phones are going downhill as far as useful features.
>>
>> 1. Most no longer have a headphone jack

I bought one of those around-the-neck-with-connected-earbuds bluetooth
things, but they're useless for occasional use. They need recharging
and I can't read the grey-on-black tiny labels on the tiny switches.
Sound was fine, just way too much trouble to use for when I might
actually WANT to use headphones.

>> 2. Batteries are no longer replaceable by the consumer

The battery for my Pixel2 was $14 from ebay. The guy charged me a total
of $60 (including the battery) to replace the battery (roughly half the
cost of the phone itself). After watching the youtube video I decided
NOT to try to do it myself. I watched him while he did it and KNOW that
I made the right decision.

(Hint: If I had an actual workspace I would buy one of those blue pads
with all the little partitions for holding tiny screws etc.)

>> 3. Same with memory cards

I've only used half of the 128GB contained in he phone after 3 years. I
just wish I'd removed the sdcard from the Motorola before the Pixel
cloned it -- it would have made a much cleaner installation.

> There's a lot to be said for a redundant separate system.
> It's a travesty that the copper lines are being removed.

Our lines were put underground a few decades ago. When we had AT&T
fiber installed 2 years ago the guys pulled out the old phone lines
(they left Charter's cable lines, which we're using right now). The old
phone lines were really rotten. We've used VOIP for 10 years and have
had no problems beyond short power outages (City power, not SoCalEdison).

--
Cheers, Bev
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run
out of other people's money." --Maggie Thatcher

AK wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-6, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>> Michael Trew wrote:
>>> On 12/7/2022 19:44, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 12/7/22 3:08 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a traditional AT&T land line in Ohio (former Ameritech). It's
>>> now $45/mo after tax for basic unlimited local calling, no long
>>> distance, no features. The price increases are starting to get out of
>>> control. I don't trust VoIP services like MagicJack or Ooma.
>> I got rid of the ATT landline about 5 years ago for the same cost
>> reason. ATT kept going up in cost and when it hit $65 for basic service
>> I had it turned off. I have a Verizon flip phone with unlimited USA
>> voice calling. Txt, video, picture is unlimited free. It can connect
>> via wifi for free so it also has free email but I rarely use that. Data
>> has a 500 meg free limit per month and my usage is 5 megs per month. I
>> had everything else turned off. My cost is $35 per month including tax.
>> Calling foreign countries is 10 cents / min so I call friends around
>> the world for $2 for 20 min each at Christmas. My job requires me to be
>> on the phone every day for about 3000 minutes per month so the cell
>> phone is invaluable. I also travel North America for work and when in
>> Canada or places that don't have cell or wifi I use a small satellite to
>> wifi to my phone or to the laptop device.
>>> I don't have a smart phone. I'm still milking an ancient Nokia 3395, on
>>> the barely-functional T-Mobile 2G network.
>>>
>>> There are a number of people with the old "Gold Rewards" legacy T-mobile
>>> plan on this website, myself (occasionally) included:
>>>
>>> https://howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/343-T-Mobile-prepaid?s=c00a41fa2e72bbff927e6723bead423d
>>>
> I got rid of my land line as well.
>
> A couple of advantages I noticed with land lines.
>
> 1. They stay up when hurricanes damage cell phone towers
> 2. They have their own voltage source (48 Volts)
>
> Cell phones are going downhill as far as useful features.
>
> 1. Most no longer have a headphone jack
> 2. Batteries are no longer replaceable by the consumer
> 3. Same with memory cards
>
> Andy

I have a Kyocera Cadence S2720 (Verizon). It works well for my needs.
Wifi is usally off but I turn it on when needed, same for bluetooth.
Email is done via my laptop when at home or in a motel - I do not want
emails while driving. It can do internet but the screen is too small to
be of much use for that. Maps would be nice but I prefer paper print
outs. Electronic maps have been wrong too many times for my comfort.
And besides, if I get lost or want to find a restaurant, etc, it gives
me an excuse to call my son: "Son, I am in Bismark, ND, where is there
a good pizza place?"

I had the opposite problem with land line. Here in Katy the 50 year old
copper lines short out when it rains and only the cell phone works. I'm
too far inland for more than about 60 mph wind.

On 4/2/2023 13:18, The Real Bev wrote:
> Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>> I don't have a smart phone. I'm still milking an ancient Nokia
>> 3395, on the barely-functional T-Mobile 2G network.
>>
>> There are a number of people with the old "Gold Rewards" legacy
>> T-mobile plan on this website, myself (occasionally) included:
>
> $10/year for occasional use is perfect. I live in fear that they will
> eliminate this because their bookkeeping costs more than their income
> from it.

It's possible, but I find it fairly unlikely, since the fraction of
bandwidth that I use cost nothing to T-Mobile to keep on-line. Someone
I know who works for T-Mobile told me recently that all of these old
Legacy Gold plans were migrated to the new billing system several months
ago, so hopefully they will be around to stay. I noticed when the
migration happened, the automated system (when you dial 611) changed,
and it no longer tells me the date my plan expires -- only the minutes
remaining for how much I've paid.

Believe it or not, people sell these plans, the SIM card to go into your
phone, and the number attached to it on eBay for big bucks...

For example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175157454547

On 4/3/23 7:42 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 4/2/2023 13:18, The Real Bev wrote:
>> Michael Trew wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't have a smart phone. I'm still milking an ancient Nokia
>>> 3395, on the barely-functional T-Mobile 2G network.
>>>
>>> There are a number of people with the old "Gold Rewards" legacy
>>> T-mobile plan on this website, myself (occasionally) included:
>>
>> $10/year for occasional use is perfect. I live in fear that they will
>> eliminate this because their bookkeeping costs more than their income
>> from it.
>
> It's possible, but I find it fairly unlikely, since the fraction of
> bandwidth that I use cost nothing to T-Mobile to keep on-line. Someone
> I know who works for T-Mobile told me recently that all of these old
> Legacy Gold plans were migrated to the new billing system several months
> ago, so hopefully they will be around to stay. I noticed when the
> migration happened, the automated system (when you dial 611) changed,
> and it no longer tells me the date my plan expires -- only the minutes
> remaining for how much I've paid.

#225#
#999#

Can't remember what the first one gives. #999# gives minutes and
dollars remaining.

> Believe it or not, people sell these plans, the SIM card to go into your
> phone, and the number attached to it on eBay for big bucks...

I can believe it. We have two of them. Hubby NEVER uses his so he has
roughly $200 on it. I've got $33. Both due for renewal in September.
We should swap SIMs. There may be some reason that we shouldn't, but I
can't think of what it might be.

> For example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175157454547

$777. Mind-boggling.

--
Cheers, Bev
"It is never fallacious to properly cite Donald Knuth in
lieu of providing your own argument." --Sun Tzu

On 4/3/2023 17:34, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 4/3/23 7:42 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>> I noticed when the
>> migration happened, the automated system (when you dial 611) changed,
>> and it no longer tells me the date my plan expires -- only the minutes
>> remaining for how much I've paid.
>
> #225#
> #999#

Thank you. It's unfortunate that they still won't tell me what the
expiration date is, unless I call in and talk to a person.

>> Believe it or not, people sell these plans, the SIM card to go into your
>> phone, and the number attached to it on eBay for big bucks...
>
> I can believe it. We have two of them. Hubby NEVER uses his so he has
> roughly $200 on it. I've got $33. Both due for renewal in September. We
> should swap SIMs. There may be some reason that we shouldn't, but I
> can't think of what it might be.

If I were you, I would swap them until his balance is paid down. The
only draw-back would be that you'd have his phone number, and he'd have
yours. As long as that's not an issue for you, go for it.

>> For example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175157454547
>
> $777. Mind-boggling.

I use about $5 worth on mine monthly, and I buy enough once per year
shortly before expiration. I actually bought mine on eBay a few years
back (a 2006 account). I paid somewhere in the ball-park of $400 for
it, but it had over $300 on it, which I slowly used. At the time, the
guy with the account negotiated T-Mobile down to 5 cents/minute.

I don't know how he got that 5 cent per minute rate, but I got to enjoy
that until they switched to the new billing system, and they told me
it's 10 cents for everyone now; no exceptions. I wasn't a happy camper,
but I think it's still a good value for how little I use it. I
primarily use my home phone for calls.

On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 9:25:20 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/2/2023 4:17 AM, AK wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-6, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> >> Michael Trew wrote:
> >>> On 12/7/2022 19:44, The Real Bev wrote:
> >>>> On 12/7/22 3:08 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I have a traditional AT&T land line in Ohio (former Ameritech). It's
> >>> now $45/mo after tax for basic unlimited local calling, no long
> >>> distance, no features. The price increases are starting to get out of
> >>> control. I don't trust VoIP services like MagicJack or Ooma.
> >> I got rid of the ATT landline about 5 years ago for the same cost
> >> reason. ATT kept going up in cost and when it hit $65 for basic service
> >> I had it turned off. I have a Verizon flip phone with unlimited USA
> >> voice calling. Txt, video, picture is unlimited free. It can connect
> >> via wifi for free so it also has free email but I rarely use that. Data
> >> has a 500 meg free limit per month and my usage is 5 megs per month. I
> >> had everything else turned off. My cost is $35 per month including tax..
> >> Calling foreign countries is 10 cents / min so I call friends around
> >> the world for $2 for 20 min each at Christmas. My job requires me to be
> >> on the phone every day for about 3000 minutes per month so the cell
> >> phone is invaluable. I also travel North America for work and when in
> >> Canada or places that don't have cell or wifi I use a small satellite to
> >> wifi to my phone or to the laptop device.
> >>> I don't have a smart phone. I'm still milking an ancient Nokia 3395, on
> >>> the barely-functional T-Mobile 2G network.
> >>>
> >>> There are a number of people with the old "Gold Rewards" legacy T-mobile
> >>> plan on this website, myself (occasionally) included:
> >>>
> >>> https://howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/343-T-Mobile-prepaid?s=c00a41fa2e72bbff927e6723bead423d
> >>>
> > I got rid of my land line as well.
> >
> > A couple of advantages I noticed with land lines.
> >
> > 1. They stay up when hurricanes damage cell phone towers
> > 2. They have their own voltage source (48 Volts)
> >
> > Cell phones are going downhill as far as useful features.
> >
> > 1. Most no longer have a headphone jack
> > 2. Batteries are no longer replaceable by the consumer
> > 3. Same with memory cards
> >
> > Andy
> >
> +1
> There's a lot to be said for a redundant separate system.
> It's a travesty that the copper lines are being removed.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I do not think that copper lines are being removed.

There is a station close to me that maintains copper lines.

It is true that less folks are using land lines, but many businesses still do.

Andy

On 10/4/2023 12:00 pm, AK wrote:
> On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 9:25:20 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/2/2023 4:17 AM, AK wrote:
>>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 12:23:55 PM UTC-6, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>>>> Michael Trew wrote:
>>>>> On 12/7/2022 19:44, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/7/22 3:08 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a traditional AT&T land line in Ohio (former Ameritech). It's
>>>>> now $45/mo after tax for basic unlimited local calling, no long
>>>>> distance, no features. The price increases are starting to get out of
>>>>> control. I don't trust VoIP services like MagicJack or Ooma.
>>>> I got rid of the ATT landline about 5 years ago for the same cost
>>>> reason. ATT kept going up in cost and when it hit $65 for basic service
>>>> I had it turned off. I have a Verizon flip phone with unlimited USA
>>>> voice calling. Txt, video, picture is unlimited free. It can connect
>>>> via wifi for free so it also has free email but I rarely use that. Data
>>>> has a 500 meg free limit per month and my usage is 5 megs per month. I
>>>> had everything else turned off. My cost is $35 per month including tax.
>>>> Calling foreign countries is 10 cents / min so I call friends around
>>>> the world for $2 for 20 min each at Christmas. My job requires me to be
>>>> on the phone every day for about 3000 minutes per month so the cell
>>>> phone is invaluable. I also travel North America for work and when in
>>>> Canada or places that don't have cell or wifi I use a small satellite to
>>>> wifi to my phone or to the laptop device.
>>>>> I don't have a smart phone. I'm still milking an ancient Nokia 3395, on
>>>>> the barely-functional T-Mobile 2G network.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a number of people with the old "Gold Rewards" legacy T-mobile
>>>>> plan on this website, myself (occasionally) included:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/343-T-Mobile-prepaid?s=c00a41fa2e72bbff927e6723bead423d
>>>>>
>>> I got rid of my land line as well.
>>>
>>> A couple of advantages I noticed with land lines.
>>>
>>> 1. They stay up when hurricanes damage cell phone towers
>>> 2. They have their own voltage source (48 Volts)
>>>
>>> Cell phones are going downhill as far as useful features.
>>>
>>> 1. Most no longer have a headphone jack
>>> 2. Batteries are no longer replaceable by the consumer
>>> 3. Same with memory cards
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>> +1
>> There's a lot to be said for a redundant separate system.
>> It's a travesty that the copper lines are being removed.

The copper wires are not being *removed* per se. They are being
disconnected and made redundant however. The NBN was installed in my
area in 2013 and my land line is now connected to that. The NBN was
disconnected at that time and, a few years later, everyone in the area
was given the option of fibre or nothing. So, yes, the copper is still
there but it doesn't do a lot - except corrode away.
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> I do not think that copper lines are being removed.
>
> There is a station close to me that maintains copper lines.
>
> It is true that less folks are using land lines, but many businesses still do.
>
> Andy

Businesses here were given the option a few years back, fibre or nothing.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 4/9/23 8:47 PM, Xeno wrote:
> On 10/4/2023 12:00 pm, AK wrote:
>>
>>> There's a lot to be said for a redundant separate system.
>>> It's a travesty that the copper lines are being removed.
>
> The copper wires are not being *removed* per se. They are being
> disconnected and made redundant however. The NBN was installed in my
> area in 2013 and my land line is now connected to that. The NBN was
> disconnected at that time and, a few years later, everyone in the area
> was given the option of fibre or nothing. So, yes, the copper is still
> there but it doesn't do a lot - except corrode away.

Our lines were put underground a few decades ago, so the copper isn't
all that old. Still, when AT&T ran fiber they pulled out their old
copper and it looked really ratty. So now we have a choice of cable
internet ($40 for 300/20) or AT&Tfiber (was $40 for gigabit up/down; no
idea what it will be when Charter ups its price). VOIP for $6/month
with Ooma.

--
Cheers, Bev
I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people, I'm just
saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem
sort itself out.

On 4/9/2023 22:00, AK wrote:
>
> I do not think that copper lines are being removed.
>
> There is a station close to me that maintains copper lines.
>
> It is true that less folks are using land lines, but many businesses still do.
>
> Andy

That entirely depends on your locale. No copper is being pulled in my
neck of the woods (eastern Ohio, former Ameritech area) -- but I've
heard reports in BellSouth and some other regions that AT&T is pushing
to shut down the copper plant. The copper in my area is getting very
old (most of it is over 50 years), but it's still functional. My land
line is clear and it works well.