I hae a Zoom G1X four that I will use with a Crate TX30BE amp.
I've seen videos that demonstrate that delay and reverb effects
sound much better in the effects loop, but I think it's because
they were overdriving the preamp, and distorting a reverb signal
sounds worse then reverbing a distorted signal.

But what about the signal levels? I assume that the 'send' jack
on my amp is post preamp, so would I be sending a line level signal
to the pedal if I put it in the FX loop? The manual for the G1X four
gives these figures:

Input:
Rate input level: -20 dBu
Input impedance (line): 470 KOhm

Output:
Max output Line
Line +2 dBu (10 kΩ or more output impedance)
Headphones 17 mW + 17 mW (32 Ω load)

There is only one input jack and one output jack.
I read the manual and it doesn't seem to have a line/instrument
setting.

When overdriving the preamp, many suggest putting any drive/distortion
pedals in front of the preamp, with time shifters like reverb chorus and
delay in the FX loop.

I'm actually going to be runing this clean most of the time, so with
max master knob level, setting volume with the premp. In that case I
think I'd be ok running the pedal in front, and if I did want a
distorted sound, I've have to rely solely on the pedal for that, without
overdriving the preamp.

So I'm really wondering whether the pedal is more at home at front or
in the loop from a levels standpoint.

Toby

Tobiah <toby@tobiah.org> said...news:uu952v$118hi$1@dont-email.me:

> I hae a Zoom G1X four that I will use with a Crate TX30BE amp.
> I've seen videos that demonstrate that delay and reverb effects
> sound much better in the effects loop, but I think it's because
> they were overdriving the preamp, and distorting a reverb signal
> sounds worse then reverbing a distorted signal.
>
> But what about the signal levels? I assume that the 'send' jack
> on my amp is post preamp, so would I be sending a line level signal
> to the pedal if I put it in the FX loop? The manual for the G1X four
> gives these figures:
>
> Input:
> Rate input level: -20 dBu
> Input impedance (line): 470 KOhm
>
> Output:
> Max output Line
> Line +2 dBu (10 kΩ or more output impedance)
> Headphones 17 mW + 17 mW (32 Ω load)
>
> There is only one input jack and one output jack.
> I read the manual and it doesn't seem to have a line/instrument
> setting.
>
> When overdriving the preamp, many suggest putting any drive/distortion
> pedals in front of the preamp, with time shifters like reverb chorus and
> delay in the FX loop.
>
> I'm actually going to be runing this clean most of the time, so with
> max master knob level, setting volume with the premp. In that case I
> think I'd be ok running the pedal in front, and if I did want a
> distorted sound, I've have to rely solely on the pedal for that, without
> overdriving the preamp.
>
> So I'm really wondering whether the pedal is more at home at front or
> in the loop from a levels standpoint.
>
>
> Toby
>

You really want to have an effects pedal that can be connected using the "4
cable method." That allows the pedal to use both the input and the Efx
loop, routing overdrive, etc to the front end while putting reverb, etc on
the Efx loop.

I use a Line 6 HX-Effects that allows for this operation. Not sure if the
G1X does or not.

david

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> You really want to have an effects pedal that can be connected using the "4
> cable method." That allows the pedal to use both the input and the Efx
> loop, routing overdrive, etc to the front end while putting reverb, etc on
> the Efx loop.
>
> I use a Line 6 HX-Effects that allows for this operation. Not sure if the
> G1X does or not.

No, this pedal is inexpensive, and doesn't have a send loop in itself.
It only has one in, and one out, so it has to go in front of the amp, or
in the FX loop.

I assume that the FX send is post preamp, so it would be a different level than
the guitar going into the pedal, and the return is probably different
then going into the amp input. Would the pedal be more at home in front
of the amp from a level standpoint, or is it likely flexible enough to
work either way?

Tobiah <toby@tobiah.org> said...news:uuec82$2gjuv$1@dont-email.me:

>
>> You really want to have an effects pedal that can be connected using the
"4
>> cable method." That allows the pedal to use both the input and the Efx
>> loop, routing overdrive, etc to the front end while putting reverb, etc
on
>> the Efx loop.
>>
>> I use a Line 6 HX-Effects that allows for this operation. Not sure if
the
>> G1X does or not.
>
> No, this pedal is inexpensive, and doesn't have a send loop in itself.
> It only has one in, and one out, so it has to go in front of the amp, or
> in the FX loop.
>
> I assume that the FX send is post preamp, so it would be a different
level than
> the guitar going into the pedal, and the return is probably different
> then going into the amp input. Would the pedal be more at home in front
> of the amp from a level standpoint, or is it likely flexible enough to
> work either way?
>
>
>
>
In this case you should probably use it in front of the amp. Given the
limitation of not having 4-cable access, it was probably designed for
front-end use anyway.

david

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On 30 Mar 2024, Tobiah <toby@tobiah.org> wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> I hae a Zoom G1X four that I will use with a Crate TX30BE amp.
> I've seen videos that demonstrate that delay and reverb effects
> sound much better in the effects loop, but I think it's because
> they were overdriving the preamp, and distorting a reverb signal
> sounds worse then reverbing a distorted signal.
>
> But what about the signal levels? I assume that the 'send' jack
> on my amp is post preamp, so would I be sending a line level
> signal to the pedal if I put it in the FX loop? The manual for
> the G1X four gives these figures:
>
> Input:
> Rate input level: -20 dBu
> Input impedance (line): 470 KOhm
>
> Output:
> Max output Line
> Line +2 dBu (10 kΩ or more output impedance)
> Headphones 17 mW + 17 mW (32 Ω load)
>
> There is only one input jack and one output jack.
> I read the manual and it doesn't seem to have a line/instrument
> setting.
>
> When overdriving the preamp, many suggest putting any
> drive/distortion pedals in front of the preamp, with time shifters
> like reverb chorus and delay in the FX loop.
>
> I'm actually going to be runing this clean most of the time, so
> with max master knob level, setting volume with the premp. In
> that case I think I'd be ok running the pedal in front, and if I
> did want a distorted sound, I've have to rely solely on the pedal
> for that, without overdriving the preamp.
>
> So I'm really wondering whether the pedal is more at home at front
> or in the loop from a levels standpoint.

Reverbs and delays in front of distortions are generally considered to
be a bad thing, and logic and my experience tell me this is correct.
It's not necessarily that they are overdriving the preamp, it's that
that distorting those time-based effects will smear them up and sound
messy and ugly. But maybe you like that sound even if only for an
occasional effect.

Distortions after preamp are usually considered to be a bad thing. But
you may like it, so try it and see.

Your choices are three:

- Use the Zoom's amp emulations and go into the Crate's effects return.
The amp will function as a clean power amp and the Zoom will be the
preamp, most of your tone will come from it. You probably want to keep
the Zoom's speaker cabinet emulations off, but try it and see.

- Your plan is a good one IMO: run the pedal in front of the amp with
the amp set clean-ish. You probably want to turn the Zoom's amp and
cabinet emulations off, but try it to see if you like it. Play with the
Zoom's output level - you may not want to run it at maximum.

- If you are using only the time-based effects, running it in the loop
might be the best option.

By the way, I have one of these units that I was given as a gift. I
have hardly used it so I'm preparing to sell it. I see these going for
new for about $90. I also see them selling used for as much as $130!
Wha-wha-what!?!

Tobiah wrote:
> I hae a Zoom G1X four that I will use with a Crate TX30BE amp.
> I've seen videos that demonstrate that delay and reverb effects
> sound much better in the effects loop, but I think it's because
> they were overdriving the preamp, and distorting a reverb signal
> sounds worse then reverbing a distorted signal.
>
> But what about the signal levels?  I assume that the 'send' jack
> on my amp is post preamp, so would I be sending a line level signal
> to the pedal if I put it in the FX loop?  The manual for the G1X four
> gives these figures:
>
>   Input:
>     Rate input level: -20 dBu
>     Input impedance (line): 470 KOhm
>
>   Output:
>     Max output Line
>     Line +2 dBu (10 kΩ or more output impedance)
>     Headphones 17 mW + 17 mW (32 Ω load)
>
> There is only one input jack and one output jack.
> I read the manual and it doesn't seem to have a line/instrument
> setting.
>
> When overdriving the preamp, many suggest putting any drive/distortion
> pedals in front of the preamp, with time shifters like reverb chorus and
> delay in the FX loop.
>
> I'm actually going to be runing this clean most of the time, so with
> max master knob level, setting volume with the premp.  In that case I
> think I'd be ok running the pedal in front, and if I did want a
> distorted sound, I've have to rely solely on the pedal for that, without
> overdriving the preamp.
>
> So I'm really wondering whether the pedal is more at home at front or
> in the loop from a levels standpoint.
>
>
> Toby

I need about -40dB of pad to run pedals from a bog-standard interface's
line out.

--
Les Cargill