Back in May I went onto the FAA website and reserved a number for my glider.. It seemed to work OK and the web page showed that I had successfully picked the number I wanted.

However, I received no acknowledgment and my CC does not appear to have been charged the $10 fee. When I go onto the website and check, the number comes up as "not reserved or assigned", but when I try to re-register (in case I made a mistake" it says "not available". It's a legal number and really not that special.

I emailed the FAA contact page last week asking what's up. No reply - and I have been checking my junkmail too.

Is this normal "dealing with the government" slowness, or is there a fuckup where I should just pick a new number? It matters because the test flight of my aircraft will be in late September and if I need to change the number I told the vendor, sooner is better. Tempus fugit...

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 10:35:42 AM UTC-4, Doug Bailey wrote:
> Back in May I went onto the FAA website and reserved a number for my glider. It seemed to work OK and the web page showed that I had successfully picked the number I wanted.
>
> However, I received no acknowledgment and my CC does not appear to have been charged the $10 fee. When I go onto the website and check, the number comes up as "not reserved or assigned", but when I try to re-register (in case I made a mistake" it says "not available". It's a legal number and really not that special.
>
> I emailed the FAA contact page last week asking what's up. No reply - and I have been checking my junkmail too.
>
> Is this normal "dealing with the government" slowness, or is there a fuckup where I should just pick a new number? It matters because the test flight of my aircraft will be in late September and if I need to change the number I told the vendor, sooner is better. Tempus fugit...
Contact your local FSDO FAASTeam Manager and see if there is someone in the FSDO that could help with that. They can see internally into the FAA database things we cannot.
Bill

I also suggest contacting the FSDO. However, you should be aware that there are some "scalpers" out there who reserve large numbers of N-numbers at the $10 fee and then sell them at an inflated price to the final user. Sometimes the price demanded is on the thousands. Apparently, there is no regulation that prevents this practice. I personally think it should not be allowed, but the FAA has not ruled against it.

Most of these numbers are like desirable domain names, which can also be reserved and then resold. One of the most famous N-number resales was November One Kilo Echo (N1KE). It was sold to (guess who) for enough money to get the original owner a new airplane.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:35:42 AM UTC-7, Doug Bailey wrote:
> Back in May I went onto the FAA website and reserved a number for my glider. It seemed to work OK and the web page showed that I had successfully picked the number I wanted.
>
> However, I received no acknowledgment and my CC does not appear to have been charged the $10 fee. When I go onto the website and check, the number comes up as "not reserved or assigned", but when I try to re-register (in case I made a mistake" it says "not available". It's a legal number and really not that special.
>
> I emailed the FAA contact page last week asking what's up. No reply - and I have been checking my junkmail too.
>
> Is this normal "dealing with the government" slowness, or is there a fuckup where I should just pick a new number? It matters because the test flight of my aircraft will be in late September and if I need to change the number I told the vendor, sooner is better. Tempus fugit...

The FAA Records Division is overwhelmed. The waiting period now is about six months if you submit a registration change today.

Tom 2G

On 8/18/23 9:22 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
> I also suggest contacting the FSDO. However, you should be aware that there are some "scalpers" out there who reserve large numbers of N-numbers at the $10 fee and then sell them at an inflated price to the final user. Sometimes the price demanded is on the thousands. Apparently, there is no regulation that prevents this practice. I personally think it should not be allowed, but the FAA has not ruled against it.
>
> Most of these numbers are like desirable domain names, which can also be reserved and then resold. One of the most famous N-number resales was November One Kilo Echo (N1KE). It was sold to (guess who) for enough money to get the original owner a new airplane.

I have a friend who reserved NOOKY. They let him have it, but came up
with some rule like you can't have double zeroes in an N number.

I thought of NOOKY and N1CE back in the 80s when I was building a
Quickie Q-2 (sold the kit when I got into gliding).

Just this year I found the registration of one of my toys had expired as
I had changed from a PO Box back to my street address and the reminder
letters were returned to the FAA. I called the local FSDO and was given
an internal phone number to the FAA in OKC and the suggestion to ask
that a temporary registration certificate be faxed or emailed to me.
IIRC I got a new registration that day and the nice lady walked my
application through. I got a new hard copy within about a week.

Give FSDO a call!

Dan
5J

On 8/18/23 10:36, kinsell wrote:
> On 8/18/23 9:22 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
>> I also suggest contacting the FSDO. However, you should be aware that
>> there are some "scalpers" out there who reserve large numbers of
>> N-numbers at the $10 fee and then sell them at an inflated price to
>> the final user. Sometimes the price demanded is on the thousands.
>> Apparently, there is no regulation that prevents this practice. I
>> personally think it should not be allowed, but the FAA has not ruled
>> against it.
>>
>> Most of these numbers are like desirable domain names, which can also
>> be reserved and then resold. One of the most famous N-number resales
>> was November One Kilo Echo (N1KE). It was sold to (guess who) for
>> enough money to get the original owner a new airplane.
>
> I have a friend who reserved NOOKY.  They let him have it, but came up
> with some rule like you can't have double zeroes in an N number.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 2:59:11 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I thought of NOOKY and N1CE back in the 80s when I was building a
> Quickie Q-2 (sold the kit when I got into gliding).
>
> Just this year I found the registration of one of my toys had expired as
> I had changed from a PO Box back to my street address and the reminder
> letters were returned to the FAA. I called the local FSDO and was given
> an internal phone number to the FAA in OKC and the suggestion to ask
> that a temporary registration certificate be faxed or emailed to me.
> IIRC I got a new registration that day and the nice lady walked my
> application through. I got a new hard copy within about a week.
>
> Give FSDO a call!
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 8/18/23 10:36, kinsell wrote:
> > On 8/18/23 9:22 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
> >> I also suggest contacting the FSDO. However, you should be aware that
> >> there are some "scalpers" out there who reserve large numbers of
> >> N-numbers at the $10 fee and then sell them at an inflated price to
> >> the final user. Sometimes the price demanded is on the thousands.
> >> Apparently, there is no regulation that prevents this practice. I
> >> personally think it should not be allowed, but the FAA has not ruled
> >> against it.
> >>
> >> Most of these numbers are like desirable domain names, which can also
> >> be reserved and then resold. One of the most famous N-number resales
> >> was November One Kilo Echo (N1KE). It was sold to (guess who) for
> >> enough money to get the original owner a new airplane.
> >
> > I have a friend who reserved NOOKY. They let him have it, but came up
> > with some rule like you can't have double zeroes in an N number.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 2:59:11 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I thought of NOOKY and N1CE back in the 80s when I was building a
> Quickie Q-2 (sold the kit when I got into gliding).
>
> Just this year I found the registration of one of my toys had expired as
> I had changed from a PO Box back to my street address and the reminder
> letters were returned to the FAA. I called the local FSDO and was given
> an internal phone number to the FAA in OKC and the suggestion to ask
> that a temporary registration certificate be faxed or emailed to me.
> IIRC I got a new registration that day and the nice lady walked my
> application through. I got a new hard copy within about a week.
>
> Give FSDO a call!
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 8/18/23 10:36, kinsell wrote:
> > On 8/18/23 9:22 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
> >> I also suggest contacting the FSDO. However, you should be aware that
> >> there are some "scalpers" out there who reserve large numbers of
> >> N-numbers at the $10 fee and then sell them at an inflated price to
> >> the final user. Sometimes the price demanded is on the thousands.
> >> Apparently, there is no regulation that prevents this practice. I
> >> personally think it should not be allowed, but the FAA has not ruled
> >> against it.
> >>
> >> Most of these numbers are like desirable domain names, which can also
> >> be reserved and then resold. One of the most famous N-number resales
> >> was November One Kilo Echo (N1KE). It was sold to (guess who) for
> >> enough money to get the original owner a new airplane.
> >
> > I have a friend who reserved NOOKY. They let him have it, but came up
> > with some rule like you can't have double zeroes in an N number.

Since at least 1966, Part 47 specifies certain combinations are not permissible - no O or I and can't start with 0, etc. The folks at the Registry in OKC are awesome, just call and spend your time on hold to see what happened to your request. They are a totally separate fiefdom from Flight Standards, Air Traffic, etc.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:05:48 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 2:59:11 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > I thought of NOOKY and N1CE back in the 80s when I was building a
> > Quickie Q-2 (sold the kit when I got into gliding).
> >
> > Just this year I found the registration of one of my toys had expired as
> > I had changed from a PO Box back to my street address and the reminder
> > letters were returned to the FAA. I called the local FSDO and was given
> > an internal phone number to the FAA in OKC and the suggestion to ask
> > that a temporary registration certificate be faxed or emailed to me.
> > IIRC I got a new registration that day and the nice lady walked my
> > application through. I got a new hard copy within about a week.
> >
> > Give FSDO a call!
> >
> > Dan
> > 5J
> > On 8/18/23 10:36, kinsell wrote:
> > > On 8/18/23 9:22 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
> > >> I also suggest contacting the FSDO. However, you should be aware that
> > >> there are some "scalpers" out there who reserve large numbers of
> > >> N-numbers at the $10 fee and then sell them at an inflated price to
> > >> the final user. Sometimes the price demanded is on the thousands.
> > >> Apparently, there is no regulation that prevents this practice. I
> > >> personally think it should not be allowed, but the FAA has not ruled
> > >> against it.
> > >>
> > >> Most of these numbers are like desirable domain names, which can also
> > >> be reserved and then resold. One of the most famous N-number resales
> > >> was November One Kilo Echo (N1KE). It was sold to (guess who) for
> > >> enough money to get the original owner a new airplane.
> > >
> > > I have a friend who reserved NOOKY. They let him have it, but came up
> > > with some rule like you can't have double zeroes in an N number.
> Since at least 1966, Part 47 specifies certain combinations are not permissible - no O or I and can't start with 0, etc. The folks at the Registry in OKC are awesome, just call and spend your time on hold to see what happened to your request. They are a totally separate fiefdom from Flight Standards, Air Traffic, etc.

Response from FSDO - they are processing requests from March 2023 right now, and I'm in the queue. Which is great to know.

On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 4:18:30 PM UTC-4, Doug Bailey wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:05:48 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 2:59:11 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > I thought of NOOKY and N1CE back in the 80s when I was building a
> > > Quickie Q-2 (sold the kit when I got into gliding).
> > >
> > > Just this year I found the registration of one of my toys had expired as
> > > I had changed from a PO Box back to my street address and the reminder
> > > letters were returned to the FAA. I called the local FSDO and was given
> > > an internal phone number to the FAA in OKC and the suggestion to ask
> > > that a temporary registration certificate be faxed or emailed to me.
> > > IIRC I got a new registration that day and the nice lady walked my
> > > application through. I got a new hard copy within about a week.
> > >
> > > Give FSDO a call!
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > 5J
> > > On 8/18/23 10:36, kinsell wrote:
> > > > On 8/18/23 9:22 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
> > > >> I also suggest contacting the FSDO. However, you should be aware that
> > > >> there are some "scalpers" out there who reserve large numbers of
> > > >> N-numbers at the $10 fee and then sell them at an inflated price to
> > > >> the final user. Sometimes the price demanded is on the thousands.
> > > >> Apparently, there is no regulation that prevents this practice. I
> > > >> personally think it should not be allowed, but the FAA has not ruled
> > > >> against it.
> > > >>
> > > >> Most of these numbers are like desirable domain names, which can also
> > > >> be reserved and then resold. One of the most famous N-number resales
> > > >> was November One Kilo Echo (N1KE). It was sold to (guess who) for
> > > >> enough money to get the original owner a new airplane.
> > > >
> > > > I have a friend who reserved NOOKY. They let him have it, but came up
> > > > with some rule like you can't have double zeroes in an N number.
> > Since at least 1966, Part 47 specifies certain combinations are not permissible - no O or I and can't start with 0, etc. The folks at the Registry in OKC are awesome, just call and spend your time on hold to see what happened to your request. They are a totally separate fiefdom from Flight Standards, Air Traffic, etc.
> Response from FSDO - they are processing requests from March 2023 right now, and I'm in the queue. Which is great to know.
Much better than March 2022....

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 9:32:44 AM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:35:42 AM UTC-7, Doug Bailey wrote:
> > Back in May I went onto the FAA website and reserved a number for my glider. It seemed to work OK and the web page showed that I had successfully picked the number I wanted.
> >
> > However, I received no acknowledgment and my CC does not appear to have been charged the $10 fee. When I go onto the website and check, the number comes up as "not reserved or assigned", but when I try to re-register (in case I made a mistake" it says "not available". It's a legal number and really not that special.
> >
> > I emailed the FAA contact page last week asking what's up. No reply - and I have been checking my junkmail too.
> >
> > Is this normal "dealing with the government" slowness, or is there a fuckup where I should just pick a new number? It matters because the test flight of my aircraft will be in late September and if I need to change the number I told the vendor, sooner is better. Tempus fugit...
> The FAA Records Division is overwhelmed. The waiting period now is about six months if you submit a registration change today.
>
> Tom 2G

Got mine in 3 weeks, all on-line and no problems.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:05:48 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
<trimmed>
>> Since at least 1966, Part 47 specifies certain combinations are not permissible - no O or I and can't start with 0, etc.

As I recount in my book (shameless commercial plug; see my posting re "Goodbye, Papa Golf" a few days ago), back in 1966, my late father, Joe Bearden, wrote to ask the FAA for N007JB. That's right: 007. He had just received contest number JB from the very generous John Baird. This was back when the James Bond movies were gathering speed and Dad thought having 007 and "James Bond" as his N number would be terrific. At the impressionable age of 15, I agreed! Hahaha

Alas, the FAA responded that N numbers could not begin with zero. My disappointed father then requested N707JB. We knew Boeing had reserved blocks of 707 numbers for their jet airliner but N707JB was available! Dad may have telephoned the FAA this time, because I know there was some back and forth. He had access to a WATS line (look it up, kids) at his office at Procter & Gamble.

So N707JB went on the Diamant HBV Dad and his partners took delivery of a few months later...and on the Libelle 201 that replaced it in 1970...and on the LS3 that replaced that in 1978...and on the ASW 24 that replaced that in 1992, which I still own. Thus I've been flying N707JB and JB since our Libelle in 1970 (53 years). Note: I never flew the Diamant. Dad worried that the side stick (and the difficulty several of our partners had transitioning from a 1-23 and a Ka-8) didn't augur well for it being my first high-performance ride, although several pilots have told me the Diamant flew just fine.

Because I "appropriated" JB for my own contest use when I started entering contests in the Libelle in 1971, Dad acquired PG as the contest number for his glider in 1979, as his 30th anniversary at P&G approached.

I wasn't aware, until Tony's post , that if Dad had asked of the FAA a year or two earlier, I might well be flying N007JB today--when the James Bond movies are still gathering speed. Wonder what 007 James Bond would be worth today as an N number? ;)

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB" (N707JB)

On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:35:03 AM UTC-7, Chip Bearden wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:05:48 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> <trimmed>
> >> Since at least 1966, Part 47 specifies certain combinations are not permissible - no O or I and can't start with 0, etc.
> As I recount in my book (shameless commercial plug; see my posting re "Goodbye, Papa Golf" a few days ago), back in 1966, my late father, Joe Bearden, wrote to ask the FAA for N007JB. That's right: 007. He had just received contest number JB from the very generous John Baird. This was back when the James Bond movies were gathering speed and Dad thought having 007 and "James Bond" as his N number would be terrific. At the impressionable age of 15, I agreed! Hahaha
>
> Alas, the FAA responded that N numbers could not begin with zero. My disappointed father then requested N707JB. We knew Boeing had reserved blocks of 707 numbers for their jet airliner but N707JB was available! Dad may have telephoned the FAA this time, because I know there was some back and forth.. He had access to a WATS line (look it up, kids) at his office at Procter & Gamble.
>
> So N707JB went on the Diamant HBV Dad and his partners took delivery of a few months later...and on the Libelle 201 that replaced it in 1970...and on the LS3 that replaced that in 1978...and on the ASW 24 that replaced that in 1992, which I still own. Thus I've been flying N707JB and JB since our Libelle in 1970 (53 years). Note: I never flew the Diamant. Dad worried that the side stick (and the difficulty several of our partners had transitioning from a 1-23 and a Ka-8) didn't augur well for it being my first high-performance ride, although several pilots have told me the Diamant flew just fine.
>
> Because I "appropriated" JB for my own contest use when I started entering contests in the Libelle in 1971, Dad acquired PG as the contest number for his glider in 1979, as his 30th anniversary at P&G approached.
>
> I wasn't aware, until Tony's post , that if Dad had asked of the FAA a year or two earlier, I might well be flying N007JB today--when the James Bond movies are still gathering speed. Wonder what 007 James Bond would be worth today as an N number? ;)
>
> Chip Bearden
> ASW 24 "JB" (N707JB)

The tone of the email from the FAA implied that they think of the reservation system as similar to the vanity plates on a car - it's a "nice to have" service for picky people. In my case, I could really care less about what the number is - but I need to know what it is because they are going to paint it on an airframe about 4 months before it shows up in the USA and gets registered. It's not a "nice to have" - it has real-world cost consequences.

On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:13:51 AM UTC-7, Doug Bailey wrote:
> On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:35:03 AM UTC-7, Chip Bearden wrote:
> > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:05:48 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> > <trimmed>
> > >> Since at least 1966, Part 47 specifies certain combinations are not permissible - no O or I and can't start with 0, etc.
> > As I recount in my book (shameless commercial plug; see my posting re "Goodbye, Papa Golf" a few days ago), back in 1966, my late father, Joe Bearden, wrote to ask the FAA for N007JB. That's right: 007. He had just received contest number JB from the very generous John Baird. This was back when the James Bond movies were gathering speed and Dad thought having 007 and "James Bond" as his N number would be terrific. At the impressionable age of 15, I agreed! Hahaha
> >
> > Alas, the FAA responded that N numbers could not begin with zero. My disappointed father then requested N707JB. We knew Boeing had reserved blocks of 707 numbers for their jet airliner but N707JB was available! Dad may have telephoned the FAA this time, because I know there was some back and forth. He had access to a WATS line (look it up, kids) at his office at Procter & Gamble.
> >
> > So N707JB went on the Diamant HBV Dad and his partners took delivery of a few months later...and on the Libelle 201 that replaced it in 1970...and on the LS3 that replaced that in 1978...and on the ASW 24 that replaced that in 1992, which I still own. Thus I've been flying N707JB and JB since our Libelle in 1970 (53 years). Note: I never flew the Diamant. Dad worried that the side stick (and the difficulty several of our partners had transitioning from a 1-23 and a Ka-8) didn't augur well for it being my first high-performance ride, although several pilots have told me the Diamant flew just fine.
> >
> > Because I "appropriated" JB for my own contest use when I started entering contests in the Libelle in 1971, Dad acquired PG as the contest number for his glider in 1979, as his 30th anniversary at P&G approached.
> >
> > I wasn't aware, until Tony's post , that if Dad had asked of the FAA a year or two earlier, I might well be flying N007JB today--when the James Bond movies are still gathering speed. Wonder what 007 James Bond would be worth today as an N number? ;)
> >
> > Chip Bearden
> > ASW 24 "JB" (N707JB)
> The tone of the email from the FAA implied that they think of the reservation system as similar to the vanity plates on a car - it's a "nice to have" service for picky people. In my case, I could really care less about what the number is - but I need to know what it is because they are going to paint it on an airframe about 4 months before it shows up in the USA and gets registered. It's not a "nice to have" - it has real-world cost consequences.

Doug, I would not have the n-number painted on my plane, but would wait for it to arrive and use vinyl lettering. It works fine, is removable if you sell it and want to keep your number, or the new owner wants a different number. If you sell it internationally, the painted numbers would have to be removed and new numbers applied. Just my input for options.

On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 2:47:40 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

> Doug, I would not have the n-number painted on my plane, but would wait for it to arrive and use vinyl lettering. It works fine, is removable if you sell it and want to keep your number, or the new owner wants a different number. If you sell it internationally, the painted numbers would have to be removed and new numbers applied. Just my input for options.

Having had to work with a new owner when selling a glider to make sure I can retain the existing N number for a new glider, I can offer that it's not a big deal now that (for many years) we're allowed to use 3" numbers. It was a lot tougher with the 12" (?) numbers years ago. So, yeah, vinyl lettering would work fine but even painted numbers aren't bad, assuming the factory doesn't "inlay" them or scribe around them in the gel coat/PU (I've seen both in the past).

The SSA contest number (if you decide to have one) is a much bigger hassle, being applied to both sides of the vertical fin and in huge characters under the right wing. The last time I sold a glider (my LS3) and wanted to retain "JB", I managed to get "JE" for the new owner. Polishing off the little curves in the B's to convert them to E's with rubbing compound took a while, though it would have gone more quickly with a power tool. Interestingly enough, N707JB converted to N707JE the same way and much more easily. :) It can pay to plan ahead and perhaps even reserve the new N-number if you don't think this is the last glider you'll ever buy.

Chip Bearden
"JB"