Greetings,

Our club has a fairly large roller to maintain the runway with. The soil is clay-ish so following heavy rains or during the wetter winter season, we try to roll out the lumps and bumps. The roller is a roughly 600 gallon propane tank which is about 30 inches in diameter and roughly 12 feet long including the spherical ends. The tank is currently filled with water. The challenge is that the tractor we pull it with, JD 5100, is quite heavy so there is a fairly narrow window where the soil is soft enough for the roller to be productive but not so soft that the tractor is leaving depressions ahead of the roller. Increasing the weight of the roller should allow us to roll more effectively on days when the soil is drier.

One idea is to drain the water and completely fill the roller with concrete.. This would roughly double the weight of the roller and the material cost is low. One club member suggested filling the roller with Bentonite, but the material cost there is prohibitive.

The question I have for the RAS audience is this. Other than the inability to undo this possible change, what are the unseen issues of filling the steel roller with concrete am I not aware of. I'm thinking of things like corrosion or thermal expansion, etc. that would come back to haunt us if we did this?

We have never ever drained the water from the tank in order to lighten the weight of the roller so I don't see that as an issue. The tractor is plenty powerful enough to pull the increased weight.

There is a tremendous amount of experience in this community so if I'm missing something, hopefully someone will have valuable advice.

Thanks,

Mark

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 5:06:59 AM UTC-7, Mark Zivley wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> Our club has a fairly large roller to maintain the runway with. The soil is clay-ish so following heavy rains or during the wetter winter season, we try to roll out the lumps and bumps. The roller is a roughly 600 gallon propane tank which is about 30 inches in diameter and roughly 12 feet long including the spherical ends. The tank is currently filled with water. The challenge is that the tractor we pull it with, JD 5100, is quite heavy so there is a fairly narrow window where the soil is soft enough for the roller to be productive but not so soft that the tractor is leaving depressions ahead of the roller. Increasing the weight of the roller should allow us to roll more effectively on days when the soil is drier.
>
> One idea is to drain the water and completely fill the roller with concrete. This would roughly double the weight of the roller and the material cost is low. One club member suggested filling the roller with Bentonite, but the material cost there is prohibitive.
>
> The question I have for the RAS audience is this. Other than the inability to undo this possible change, what are the unseen issues of filling the steel roller with concrete am I not aware of. I'm thinking of things like corrosion or thermal expansion, etc. that would come back to haunt us if we did this?
>
> We have never ever drained the water from the tank in order to lighten the weight of the roller so I don't see that as an issue. The tractor is plenty powerful enough to pull the increased weight.
>
> There is a tremendous amount of experience in this community so if I'm missing something, hopefully someone will have valuable advice.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
Fill it wih sand for a 60% increase in weight, and removable?

> Fill it wih sand for a 60% increase in weight, and removable?

Good choice. From the books: weight in pounds/ft3

water: 62.4
sand: ~100
gravel: ~95-105
wet sand: ~120
wet gravel: ~125
concrete: ~150

So it looks like you could start with dry sand and work your way up, going to non-reversible concrete only if you need the extra weight. Lightweight concrete is about the same as wet sand/wet gravel. Since you're using water now, I assume freezing isn't an issue.

Chip Bearden
"JB"

You might consider installing dual wheels/tires on the tractor. Turf tires would work as well.

If you use concrete then fill with it on it's end to avoid it being out of balance when the concrete cures. My first vote would be wet sand but if you need more weight you might find out what recycled lead shot from a trap range would cost, preferably before it gets cleaned.

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 6:20:39 PM UTC-6, David Scott wrote:
> If you use concrete then fill with it on it's end to avoid it being out of balance when the concrete cures. My first vote would be wet sand but if you need more weight you might find out what recycled lead shot from a trap range would cost, preferably before it gets cleaned.

Lead shot is pretty expensive, even from a trap range. Besides, lead shot is pretty obsolete- it's almost all steel shot these days.

But if cost is not a factor, remember that Tungsten and Gold are 1.7 times the density of lead.

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 8:39:04 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 5:06:59 AM UTC-7, Mark Zivley wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Our club has a fairly large roller to maintain the runway with. The soil is clay-ish so following heavy rains or during the wetter winter season, we try to roll out the lumps and bumps. The roller is a roughly 600 gallon propane tank which is about 30 inches in diameter and roughly 12 feet long including the spherical ends. The tank is currently filled with water. The challenge is that the tractor we pull it with, JD 5100, is quite heavy so there is a fairly narrow window where the soil is soft enough for the roller to be productive but not so soft that the tractor is leaving depressions ahead of the roller. Increasing the weight of the roller should allow us to roll more effectively on days when the soil is drier.
> >
> > One idea is to drain the water and completely fill the roller with concrete. This would roughly double the weight of the roller and the material cost is low. One club member suggested filling the roller with Bentonite, but the material cost there is prohibitive.
> >
> > The question I have for the RAS audience is this. Other than the inability to undo this possible change, what are the unseen issues of filling the steel roller with concrete am I not aware of. I'm thinking of things like corrosion or thermal expansion, etc. that would come back to haunt us if we did this?
> >
> > We have never ever drained the water from the tank in order to lighten the weight of the roller so I don't see that as an issue. The tractor is plenty powerful enough to pull the increased weight.
> >
> > There is a tremendous amount of experience in this community so if I'm missing something, hopefully someone will have valuable advice.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark
> Fill it wih sand for a 60% increase in weight, and removable?

Agreed, sand, dry or wet. Not permanent and adjustable.

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 10:46:15 PM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 8:39:04 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 5:06:59 AM UTC-7, Mark Zivley wrote:
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Our club has a fairly large roller to maintain the runway with. The soil is clay-ish so following heavy rains or during the wetter winter season, we try to roll out the lumps and bumps. The roller is a roughly 600 gallon propane tank which is about 30 inches in diameter and roughly 12 feet long including the spherical ends. The tank is currently filled with water. The challenge is that the tractor we pull it with, JD 5100, is quite heavy so there is a fairly narrow window where the soil is soft enough for the roller to be productive but not so soft that the tractor is leaving depressions ahead of the roller. Increasing the weight of the roller should allow us to roll more effectively on days when the soil is drier.
> > >
> > > One idea is to drain the water and completely fill the roller with concrete. This would roughly double the weight of the roller and the material cost is low. One club member suggested filling the roller with Bentonite, but the material cost there is prohibitive.
> > >
> > > The question I have for the RAS audience is this. Other than the inability to undo this possible change, what are the unseen issues of filling the steel roller with concrete am I not aware of. I'm thinking of things like corrosion or thermal expansion, etc. that would come back to haunt us if we did this?
> > >
> > > We have never ever drained the water from the tank in order to lighten the weight of the roller so I don't see that as an issue. The tractor is plenty powerful enough to pull the increased weight.
> > >
> > > There is a tremendous amount of experience in this community so if I'm missing something, hopefully someone will have valuable advice.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mark
> > Fill it wih sand for a 60% increase in weight, and removable?
> Agreed, sand, dry or wet. Not permanent and adjustable.
Fabricate a rack above the roller that will hold 55 gallon drums filled with water. You can add weight without adding it internal to the roller.

Greetings again,

Thanks for the many responses. Interesting idea about doubling the tires, but probably an expensive route. I tried to source turf tires a year ago and expensive and the size we'd need was out of production.

While the pillow block bearings which connect the roller to the frame are suitable for pulling, they would probably not last long if we loaded up the frame with a lot of weight, such as the 55 gallon drum idea.

I had thought about sand, but had discounted that idea for fear that the sand inside the roller would erode the inside walls of the tank due to the abrasion. However several of you like the sand idea and it is reversible.

Is the risk of internal abrasion from the sand worth considering? It's probably anyone's guess until someone has tried doing this, but we could go sand for a year and then step up to concrete if we still want more weight.

Thoughts?

Mark

On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 4:46:17 AM UTC-7, Mark Zivley wrote:
> Greetings again,
>
> Thanks for the many responses. Interesting idea about doubling the tires, but probably an expensive route. I tried to source turf tires a year ago and expensive and the size we'd need was out of production.
>
> While the pillow block bearings which connect the roller to the frame are suitable for pulling, they would probably not last long if we loaded up the frame with a lot of weight, such as the 55 gallon drum idea.
>
> I had thought about sand, but had discounted that idea for fear that the sand inside the roller would erode the inside walls of the tank due to the abrasion. However several of you like the sand idea and it is reversible.
>
> Is the risk of internal abrasion from the sand worth considering? It's probably anyone's guess until someone has tried doing this, but we could go sand for a year and then step up to concrete if we still want more weight.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Mark

We live on an airpark in SW Washington with a grass runway. We have a smaller roller filled with water but it did not do much good. We try to use a roller after the wet season but before it all gets too dry.

We have found it is much more effective to rent a vibrating roller, it is larger, heavier, and self propelled with very large wide tires that do not leave ruts. Doing that every 2-3 years has proven effective.

So, there is one more thing that has now crossed my mind with sand vs. concrete. If I order say 4 yards of sand to be delivered to the airport, the truck will arrive and dump it in one big pile and it then becomes a manual process to shovel 3+ yards of sand into the roller. I'll probably have to fend off the volunteers for the shoveling task due to a high turnout... hahaha

If I order concrete, I can have the roller on a slope with a big hole already cut in the uphill end and the truck can unload the concrete directly into the roller.... just need to beat on the sides to reduce the air bubbles.

So far, no one has said anything like "you don't want to use concrete because it will split the tank in the winter" or some other cautionary tale...

Thanks for all the responses, this group is a fantastic wealth of experience.

More thoughts?

One thought.

You better fill it all the way or the little air pocket at the top will make the weight distribution so eccentric that rolling it could become a problem. Is the fill port all the way at the edge?

Andy

On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 10:15:04 AM UTC-7, Mark Zivley wrote:
> So, there is one more thing that has now crossed my mind with sand vs. concrete. If I order say 4 yards of sand to be delivered to the airport, the truck will arrive and dump it in one big pile and it then becomes a manual process to shovel 3+ yards of sand into the roller. I'll probably have to fend off the volunteers for the shoveling task due to a high turnout... hahaha
>
> If I order concrete, I can have the roller on a slope with a big hole already cut in the uphill end and the truck can unload the concrete directly into the roller.... just need to beat on the sides to reduce the air bubbles..
>
> So far, no one has said anything like "you don't want to use concrete because it will split the tank in the winter" or some other cautionary tale...
>
> Thanks for all the responses, this group is a fantastic wealth of experience.
>
> More thoughts?