While I understand all the traffic about Thunderbird, etc., it is self-defeating. The whole idea of the internet is simplicity, not trying to avoid spamming, scamming, phishing, etc. i will not load yet another app on my computer to filter all the spams rec.aviation.soaring is getting. From my perspective, the website is dead due to the spams, which are now 90% of what is being posted, probably by bots. Have fun guys. I'm gone.

It's odd. If I look at some uk telecom groups that I gave up reading ages ago, due to spam, there is now nearly no spam, and regular though though not frequent relevant posts

In those days you could report spam on Google Groups, and it would eventually disappear, albeit maybe 3 to 6 weeks later. But then the cleanups tailed off.

At the same time I disabled forwarding this email address to other gmail addresses, as there was spam there too, presumably from bots reading the email address

On ordinary forums, some moderators just hide posts, but others will search all posts by a username, delete them all off the platform in blocks, ban the user from more posts, maybe search on its IP address range to detect other suspects, including those not yet posting, and maybe ask the admin to bar an address IP range. That would be useful here, given some non Latin scripts implying common origins

Cleaning up here would take just a few minutes, but digressing as I suggest would probably delete tens of thousands of posts across other groups

I don't know if there is any way for such tools to be available to nominated persons on newsgroups. Presumably not

On Saturday, 18 November 2023 at 00:22:13 UTC, Eric Bick (DY) wrote:
> While I understand all the traffic about Thunderbird, etc., it is self-defeating. The whole idea of the internet is simplicity, not trying to avoid spamming, scamming, phishing, etc. i will not load yet another app on my computer to filter all the spams rec.aviation.soaring is getting. From my perspective, the website is dead due to the spams, which are now 90% of what is being posted, probably by bots. Have fun guys. I'm gone.

On 11/17/2023 8:28 PM, andy l wrote:
> It's odd. If I look at some uk telecom groups that I gave up reading ages ago, due to spam, there is now nearly no spam, and regular though though not frequent relevant posts
>
> In those days you could report spam on Google Groups, and it would eventually disappear, albeit maybe 3 to 6 weeks later. But then the cleanups tailed off.
>
> At the same time I disabled forwarding this email address to other gmail addresses, as there was spam there too, presumably from bots reading the email address
>
> On ordinary forums, some moderators just hide posts, but others will search all posts by a username, delete them all off the platform in blocks, ban the user from more posts, maybe search on its IP address range to detect other suspects, including those not yet posting, and maybe ask the admin to bar an address IP range. That would be useful here, given some non Latin scripts implying common origins
>
> Cleaning up here would take just a few minutes, but digressing as I suggest would probably delete tens of thousands of posts across other groups
>
> I don't know if there is any way for such tools to be available to nominated persons on newsgroups. Presumably not
>
> On Saturday, 18 November 2023 at 00:22:13 UTC, Eric Bick (DY) wrote:
>> While I understand all the traffic about Thunderbird, etc., it is self-defeating. The whole idea of the internet is simplicity, not trying to avoid spamming, scamming, phishing, etc. i will not load yet another app on my computer to filter all the spams rec.aviation.soaring is getting. From my perspective, the website is dead due to the spams, which are now 90% of what is being posted, probably by bots. Have fun guys. I'm gone.

A newsgroup (such as RAS) is not a moderated forum. OTOH,
spam-filtering does exist. You just need to get your newsgroups feed
via a server that does that filtering, automatically.
Eternal-september, for example. Unlike Google. Your choice of
front-end software to view it on is independent of that. Thunderbird is
one option.

IMHO

RAS has a rich and vibrant history and is a great reservoir of content. but in this day and age of TikTok, FB, Twitter (X), etc, etc, how can we help invite new soaring people to our RAS discussion forum? We need to provide them the easiest and fastest method possible. Basically, <CLICK HERE> and instantly get content.

We can easily provide a simple web link to get to RAS (i.e. https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring). Unfortunately, this current access to RAS has become almost impossible to view with so much chaff amongst the wheat. Every USENET group I used to view has become the same way. Very sad. Blame AI and bots? Who knows.

Our best solution thus far to remove the chaff is to use, and configure, a newsgroup viewing and filtering tool like Thunderbird. Based on my working with our club's membership this is simply too high of a hurdle for them.

Suggestions:

- Has anyone created an instruction manual (PDF) on how to download, install, update, and configure Thunderbird or the like?
- Does a simple link exist for the user to get directly to an already moderated "clean" version of rec.aviation.soaring?

I would think that these things could be created by our soaring techies. Heck, look at OGN and OLC to see what soaring technology can be brought to bear.

My $0.02.

John (OHM)
Founder of RAS_Prime (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime)

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 5:44:41 PM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> IMHO
>
> RAS has a rich and vibrant history and is a great reservoir of content. but in this day and age of TikTok, FB, Twitter (X), etc, etc, how can we help invite new soaring people to our RAS discussion forum? We need to provide them the easiest and fastest method possible. Basically, <CLICK HERE> and instantly get content.
>
> We can easily provide a simple web link to get to RAS (i.e. https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring). Unfortunately, this current access to RAS has become almost impossible to view with so much chaff amongst the wheat. Every USENET group I used to view has become the same way. Very sad. Blame AI and bots? Who knows.
>
> Our best solution thus far to remove the chaff is to use, and configure, a newsgroup viewing and filtering tool like Thunderbird. Based on my working with our club's membership this is simply too high of a hurdle for them.
>
> Suggestions:
>
> - Has anyone created an instruction manual (PDF) on how to download, install, update, and configure Thunderbird or the like?
> - Does a simple link exist for the user to get directly to an already moderated "clean" version of rec.aviation.soaring?
>
> I would think that these things could be created by our soaring techies. Heck, look at OGN and OLC to see what soaring technology can be brought to bear.
>
> My $0.02.
>
> John (OHM)
> Founder of RAS_Prime (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime)

I like the last part. IMHO, saying one has to use a this or that app does not resolve the issue. In the legend of the Dutch boy who put his finger in the dike to stop a leak was only a bandaid, and did not help the population as a whole. Saying one has to use some specific app, other than what they’ve been using for this one purpose is a loser. Yes, of course, these apps can be used for more than RAS, but how do you convince someone to change from what they’ve been using for the past 20 years? In years past, I loved implementing the solution to my similar problems, but this is, as John points out, a different world. For the population as a whole, email is a tool and most can’t get beyond setting it up, regardless of the app. Suggesting using Thunderbird seems to solve the issue for the one user, but not the population as a whole. There is no reason I can’t put thunderbird on my computer to solve the RAS issue for me, but why should I have to do that? RAS has been a valuable asset, but unless the basic issue is solved (and not bandaided over), users are going to start disappearing for reasons John specified. If you were to tell a newbie that RAS is a great tool, but they have to install AppFilterSpam, maybe some will, but most won’t, again IMHO.
Eric B. (No longer a user of RAS, other than to vent.)

One must wonder why Google does not use spam filtering or servers like Eternal November to fix the issue not just for RAS but for all newsgroups accessed from Google? They already implement spam filters in their email servers so why not for newsgroups?

Ramy

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:35:04 PM UTC-8, Eric Bick (DY) wrote:
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 5:44:41 PM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > IMHO
> >
> > RAS has a rich and vibrant history and is a great reservoir of content. but in this day and age of TikTok, FB, Twitter (X), etc, etc, how can we help invite new soaring people to our RAS discussion forum? We need to provide them the easiest and fastest method possible. Basically, <CLICK HERE> and instantly get content.
> >
> > We can easily provide a simple web link to get to RAS (i.e. https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring). Unfortunately, this current access to RAS has become almost impossible to view with so much chaff amongst the wheat. Every USENET group I used to view has become the same way. Very sad. Blame AI and bots? Who knows.
> >
> > Our best solution thus far to remove the chaff is to use, and configure, a newsgroup viewing and filtering tool like Thunderbird. Based on my working with our club's membership this is simply too high of a hurdle for them..
> >
> > Suggestions:
> >
> > - Has anyone created an instruction manual (PDF) on how to download, install, update, and configure Thunderbird or the like?
> > - Does a simple link exist for the user to get directly to an already moderated "clean" version of rec.aviation.soaring?
> >
> > I would think that these things could be created by our soaring techies.. Heck, look at OGN and OLC to see what soaring technology can be brought to bear.
> >
> > My $0.02.
> >
> > John (OHM)
> > Founder of RAS_Prime (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime)
> I like the last part. IMHO, saying one has to use a this or that app does not resolve the issue. In the legend of the Dutch boy who put his finger in the dike to stop a leak was only a bandaid, and did not help the population as a whole. Saying one has to use some specific app, other than what they’ve been using for this one purpose is a loser. Yes, of course, these apps can be used for more than RAS, but how do you convince someone to change from what they’ve been using for the past 20 years? In years past, I loved implementing the solution to my similar problems, but this is, as John points out, a different world. For the population as a whole, email is a tool and most can’t get beyond setting it up, regardless of the app. Suggesting using Thunderbird seems to solve the issue for the one user, but not the population as a whole. There is no reason I can’t put thunderbird on my computer to solve the RAS issue for me, but why should I have to do that? RAS has been a valuable asset, but unless the basic issue is solved (and not bandaided over), users are going to start disappearing for reasons John specified. If you were to tell a newbie that RAS is a great tool, but they have to install AppFilterSpam, maybe some will, but most won’t, again IMHO.
> Eric B. (No longer a user of RAS, other than to vent.)

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:12:36 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
> One must wonder why Google does not use spam filtering or servers like Eternal November to fix the issue not just for RAS but for all newsgroups accessed from Google? They already implement spam filters in their email servers so why not for newsgroups?
>
> Ramy
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:35:04 PM UTC-8, Eric Bick (DY) wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 5:44:41 PM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > > IMHO
> > >
> > > RAS has a rich and vibrant history and is a great reservoir of content. but in this day and age of TikTok, FB, Twitter (X), etc, etc, how can we help invite new soaring people to our RAS discussion forum? We need to provide them the easiest and fastest method possible. Basically, <CLICK HERE> and instantly get content.
> > >
> > > We can easily provide a simple web link to get to RAS (i.e. https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring). Unfortunately, this current access to RAS has become almost impossible to view with so much chaff amongst the wheat. Every USENET group I used to view has become the same way. Very sad. Blame AI and bots? Who knows.
> > >
> > > Our best solution thus far to remove the chaff is to use, and configure, a newsgroup viewing and filtering tool like Thunderbird. Based on my working with our club's membership this is simply too high of a hurdle for them.
> > >
> > > Suggestions:
> > >
> > > - Has anyone created an instruction manual (PDF) on how to download, install, update, and configure Thunderbird or the like?
> > > - Does a simple link exist for the user to get directly to an already moderated "clean" version of rec.aviation.soaring?
> > >
> > > I would think that these things could be created by our soaring techies. Heck, look at OGN and OLC to see what soaring technology can be brought to bear.
> > >
> > > My $0.02.
> > >
> > > John (OHM)
> > > Founder of RAS_Prime (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime)
> > I like the last part. IMHO, saying one has to use a this or that app does not resolve the issue. In the legend of the Dutch boy who put his finger in the dike to stop a leak was only a bandaid, and did not help the population as a whole. Saying one has to use some specific app, other than what they’ve been using for this one purpose is a loser. Yes, of course, these apps can be used for more than RAS, but how do you convince someone to change from what they’ve been using for the past 20 years? In years past, I loved implementing the solution to my similar problems, but this is, as John points out, a different world. For the population as a whole, email is a tool and most can’t get beyond setting it up, regardless of the app. Suggesting using Thunderbird seems to solve the issue for the one user, but not the population as a whole. There is no reason I can’t put thunderbird on my computer to solve the RAS issue for me, but why should I have to do that? RAS has been a valuable asset, but unless the basic issue is solved (and not bandaided over), users are going to start disappearing for reasons John specified. If you were to tell a newbie that RAS is a great tool, but they have to install AppFilterSpam, maybe some will, but most won’t, again IMHO.
> > Eric B. (No longer a user of RAS, other than to vent.)
Well.....at least Google added the blue stop sign at the top of a post to report a thread. Saves a whole step in reporting.
Heading back over to prime.

I just looked in on groups.google.com and r.a.s really is unusably bad. Pages and pages of repetitive spam.
Looking at a few other USENET groups at random in the rec.* branches, I didn't see this much junk.
Using the google page, there is a gear icon... one of the options there is "send feedback to google", which I did.
Worth a try, but I'm not holding my breath.
As far as a primer, I don't think it can be much easier than the following. There's just too much variability in platforms & ISPs
and preferences. There is probably more than one way to set up t-bird, I'll just describe what works for me.
I can't speak to phone/tablet versions since I don't use them for USENET. Others are.
-- --
1. Download and install an appropriate (free) version of mozilla thunderbird. You don't have to change whatever you're doing now
with email. Here: https://www.thunderbird.net/
2. Go to "https://www.eternal-september.org/" and "register", with your name, and an arbitrary userID and an email E-S can contact
you with. (Free). This email address, and userID are only used for contacting the E-S server and are not published. Once
registered, you should receive an email with a generated password and other instructions from E-S.
3. Start and configure thunderbird. "File -> New -> Newsgroup Account". At this point you will be prompted for a display name and
email address, which *will* be used for your public messages in the newsgroup. Select the new group you created and you should see a
page with setup options. Click on the top line "Account settings" and set thunderbird to point to the news server and port mentioned
in the email from step 2, above. The first time you connect, you will receive a pop-up prompt for the userID/password you
registered with E-S. If it helps, for configuration on os X I am using
Server Name: news.eternal-september.org
Port: 563
Connection security: SSL/TLS
To send messages, you will also need a "SMTP" SimpleMailTransferProtocol server. Look into your ISP documentation or current email
setup for what that needs to be. I am using my ISP:
Server Name: smtp.comcast.net
Port: 465
Connection security: SSL/TLS
Authentication method: Normal password
User Name: MyComcastID@comcast.net
4. "subscribe" to rec.aviation.soaring. (Free). The key press varies, but on OS X, a control-click on the newsgroup you created
brings up a pop-up menu including "subscribe". You can use this to check the box for R.A.S. and whatever else you want.

--Fin--


On 11/21/23 10:12 PM, Ramy wrote:
> One must wonder why Google does not use spam filtering or servers like Eternal November to fix the issue not just for RAS but for all newsgroups accessed from Google? They already implement spam filters in their email servers so why not for newsgroups?
>
> Ramy
>
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:35:04 PM UTC-8, Eric Bick (DY) wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 5:44:41 PM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
>>> IMHO
>>>
>>> RAS has a rich and vibrant history and is a great reservoir of content. but in this day and age of TikTok, FB, Twitter (X), etc, etc, how can we help invite new soaring people to our RAS discussion forum? We need to provide them the easiest and fastest method possible. Basically, <CLICK HERE> and instantly get content.
>>>
>>> We can easily provide a simple web link to get to RAS (i.e. https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring). Unfortunately, this current access to RAS has become almost impossible to view with so much chaff amongst the wheat. Every USENET group I used to view has become the same way. Very sad. Blame AI and bots? Who knows.
>>>
>>> Our best solution thus far to remove the chaff is to use, and configure, a newsgroup viewing and filtering tool like Thunderbird. Based on my working with our club's membership this is simply too high of a hurdle for them.
>>>
>>> Suggestions:
>>>
>>> - Has anyone created an instruction manual (PDF) on how to download, install, update, and configure Thunderbird or the like?
>>> - Does a simple link exist for the user to get directly to an already moderated "clean" version of rec.aviation.soaring?
>>>
>>> I would think that these things could be created by our soaring techies. Heck, look at OGN and OLC to see what soaring technology can be brought to bear.
>>>
>>> My $0.02.
>>>
>>> John (OHM)
>>> Founder of RAS_Prime (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime)
>> I like the last part. IMHO, saying one has to use a this or that app does not resolve the issue. In the legend of the Dutch boy who put his finger in the dike to stop a leak was only a bandaid, and did not help the population as a whole. Saying one has to use some specific app, other than what they’ve been using for this one purpose is a loser. Yes, of course, these apps can be used for more than RAS, but how do you convince someone to change from what they’ve been using for the past 20 years? In years past, I loved implementing the solution to my similar problems, but this is, as John points out, a different world. For the population as a whole, email is a tool and most can’t get beyond setting it up, regardless of the app. Suggesting using Thunderbird seems to solve the issue for the one user, but not the population as a whole. There is no reason I can’t put thunderbird on my computer to solve the RAS issue for me, but why should I have to do that? RAS has been a valuable asset, but unless the basic issue is solved (and not bandaided over), users are going to start disappearing for reasons John specified. If you were to tell a newbie that RAS is a great tool, but they have to install AppFilterSpam, maybe some will, but most won’t, again IMHO.
>> Eric B. (No longer a user of RAS, other than to vent.)

I consider myself technical but with little patience for technology complexity. I spent over 30 frustrating minutes trying to set up ethereal September connection using iOS NewsTap app. I followed the instructions provided by eternal September (which matches the instructions above) yet all my attempts end with connection refused.I am sure I can figure this out with or without further help, but I reached the point of frustration and lost interest trying to make this work.
The best thing about RAS was that we got lots of participants from all over the world, my guess that only small percentage will continue using it this way, as such it lost the appeal. That’s too bad, I’ve been following it since I started soaring 25 years ago. I guess will need to read soaring magazines more now…

Ramy

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 9:03:45 AM UTC-8, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> I just looked in on groups.google.com and r.a.s really is unusably bad. Pages and pages of repetitive spam.
> Looking at a few other USENET groups at random in the rec.* branches, I didn't see this much junk.
>
> Using the google page, there is a gear icon... one of the options there is "send feedback to google", which I did.
> Worth a try, but I'm not holding my breath.
>
> As far as a primer, I don't think it can be much easier than the following. There's just too much variability in platforms & ISPs
> and preferences. There is probably more than one way to set up t-bird, I'll just describe what works for me.
>
> I can't speak to phone/tablet versions since I don't use them for USENET. Others are.
>
> -- --
>
> 1. Download and install an appropriate (free) version of mozilla thunderbird. You don't have to change whatever you're doing now
> with email. Here: https://www.thunderbird.net/
>
> 2. Go to "https://www.eternal-september.org/" and "register", with your name, and an arbitrary userID and an email E-S can contact
> you with. (Free). This email address, and userID are only used for contacting the E-S server and are not published. Once
> registered, you should receive an email with a generated password and other instructions from E-S.
>
> 3. Start and configure thunderbird. "File -> New -> Newsgroup Account". At this point you will be prompted for a display name and
> email address, which *will* be used for your public messages in the newsgroup. Select the new group you created and you should see a
> page with setup options. Click on the top line "Account settings" and set thunderbird to point to the news server and port mentioned
> in the email from step 2, above. The first time you connect, you will receive a pop-up prompt for the userID/password you
> registered with E-S. If it helps, for configuration on os X I am using
> Server Name: news.eternal-september.org
> Port: 563
> Connection security: SSL/TLS
>
> To send messages, you will also need a "SMTP" SimpleMailTransferProtocol server. Look into your ISP documentation or current email
> setup for what that needs to be. I am using my ISP:
> Server Name: smtp.comcast.net
> Port: 465
> Connection security: SSL/TLS
> Authentication method: Normal password
> User Name: MyCom...@comcast.net
>
> 4. "subscribe" to rec.aviation.soaring. (Free). The key press varies, but on OS X, a control-click on the newsgroup you created
> brings up a pop-up menu including "subscribe". You can use this to check the box for R.A.S. and whatever else you want.
>
>
> --Fin--
> On 11/21/23 10:12 PM, Ramy wrote:
> > One must wonder why Google does not use spam filtering or servers like Eternal November to fix the issue not just for RAS but for all newsgroups accessed from Google? They already implement spam filters in their email servers so why not for newsgroups?
> >
> > Ramy
> >
> > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:35:04 PM UTC-8, Eric Bick (DY) wrote:
> >> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 5:44:41 PM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> >>> IMHO
> >>>
> >>> RAS has a rich and vibrant history and is a great reservoir of content. but in this day and age of TikTok, FB, Twitter (X), etc, etc, how can we help invite new soaring people to our RAS discussion forum? We need to provide them the easiest and fastest method possible. Basically, <CLICK HERE> and instantly get content.
> >>>
> >>> We can easily provide a simple web link to get to RAS (i.e. https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring). Unfortunately, this current access to RAS has become almost impossible to view with so much chaff amongst the wheat. Every USENET group I used to view has become the same way. Very sad. Blame AI and bots? Who knows.
> >>>
> >>> Our best solution thus far to remove the chaff is to use, and configure, a newsgroup viewing and filtering tool like Thunderbird. Based on my working with our club's membership this is simply too high of a hurdle for them.
> >>>
> >>> Suggestions:
> >>>
> >>> - Has anyone created an instruction manual (PDF) on how to download, install, update, and configure Thunderbird or the like?
> >>> - Does a simple link exist for the user to get directly to an already moderated "clean" version of rec.aviation.soaring?
> >>>
> >>> I would think that these things could be created by our soaring techies. Heck, look at OGN and OLC to see what soaring technology can be brought to bear.
> >>>
> >>> My $0.02.
> >>>
> >>> John (OHM)
> >>> Founder of RAS_Prime (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime)
> >> I like the last part. IMHO, saying one has to use a this or that app does not resolve the issue. In the legend of the Dutch boy who put his finger in the dike to stop a leak was only a bandaid, and did not help the population as a whole. Saying one has to use some specific app, other than what they’ve been using for this one purpose is a loser. Yes, of course, these apps can be used for more than RAS, but how do you convince someone to change from what they’ve been using for the past 20 years? In years past, I loved implementing the solution to my similar problems, but this is, as John points out, a different world. For the population as a whole, email is a tool and most can’t get beyond setting it up, regardless of the app. Suggesting using Thunderbird seems to solve the issue for the one user, but not the population as a whole. There is no reason I can’t put thunderbird on my computer to solve the RAS issue for me, but why should I have to do that? RAS has been a valuable asset, but unless the basic issue is solved (and not bandaided over), users are going to start disappearing for reasons John specified. If you were to tell a newbie that RAS is a great tool, but they have to install AppFilterSpam, maybe some will, but most won’t, again IMHO.
> >> Eric B. (No longer a user of RAS, other than to vent.)

In 1915 we had Birth of a Nation, 108 years later we have Death of a
Newsgroup.

Sarah, your description of using eternal-september.org was simple and to
the point.  But the young folks of today can not do much without being
spoon fed.

You and I and a lot of "Old Farts" will continue to use the old
fashioned, unmoderated, uncensored, text-based news reader and those few
who need to be coddled will move on.  I hate to see the split but I like
having the research capability we have and the decades worth of information.

Just yesterday, I saw a spam message on RAS.  I right clicked on the
return address (yes, we see the sender's email, real or fake), selected
"Create Filter From" (it was already populated with the right
conditions), and pressed "Enter".  I'll not see a message from that
sender ever again.  How hard was that?  I did not need to ask Google to
help me.

Haven't seen a soaring day in some time.  Good thing I've got my home
built gyro plane!

Dan 5J

On 11/22/23 10:03, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> I just looked in on groups.google.com and r.a.s really is unusably
> bad. Pages and pages of repetitive spam.
> Looking at a few other USENET groups at random in the rec.* branches,
> I didn't see this much junk.
>
> Using the google page, there is a gear icon... one of the options
> there is "send feedback to google", which I did.
> Worth a try, but I'm not holding my breath.
>
> As far as a primer, I don't think it can be much easier than the
> following. There's just too much variability in platforms & ISPs and
> preferences. There is probably more than one way to set up t-bird,
> I'll just describe what works for me.
>
> I can't speak to phone/tablet versions since I don't use them for
> USENET.  Others are.
>
> -- --
>
> 1. Download and install an appropriate (free) version of mozilla
> thunderbird. You don't have to change whatever you're doing now with
> email.  Here: https://www.thunderbird.net/
>
> 2. Go to "https://www.eternal-september.org/" and "register", with
> your name, and an arbitrary userID and an email E-S can contact you
> with. (Free). This email address, and userID are only used for
> contacting the E-S server and are not published.  Once registered, you
> should receive an email with a generated password and other
> instructions from E-S.
>
> 3. Start and configure thunderbird.  "File -> New -> Newsgroup
> Account". At this point you will be prompted for a display name and
> email address, which *will* be used for your public messages in the
> newsgroup. Select the new group you created and you should see a page
> with setup options. Click on the top line "Account settings" and set
> thunderbird to point to the news server and port mentioned in the
> email from step 2, above.  The first time you connect, you will
> receive a pop-up prompt for the userID/password you registered with
> E-S. If it helps, for configuration on os X I am using
>     Server Name: news.eternal-september.org
>     Port: 563
>     Connection security: SSL/TLS
>
> To send messages, you will also need a "SMTP"
> SimpleMailTransferProtocol server.  Look into your ISP documentation
> or current email setup for what that needs to be. I am using my ISP:
>     Server Name: smtp.comcast.net
>     Port: 465
>     Connection security: SSL/TLS
>     Authentication method: Normal password
>     User Name: MyComcastID@comcast.net
>
> 4. "subscribe" to rec.aviation.soaring. (Free). The key press varies,
> but on OS X, a control-click on the newsgroup you created brings up a
> pop-up menu including "subscribe". You can use this to check the box
> for R.A.S. and whatever else you want.
>
>
> --Fin--
>
>
>
>
> On 11/21/23 10:12 PM, Ramy wrote:
>> One must wonder why Google does not use spam filtering or servers
>> like Eternal November to fix the issue not just for RAS but for all
>> newsgroups accessed from Google? They already implement spam filters
>> in their email servers so why not for newsgroups?
>>
>> Ramy
>>
>> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:35:04 PM UTC-8, Eric Bick (DY) wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 5:44:41 PM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω
>>> http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
>>>> IMHO
>>>>
>>>> RAS has a rich and vibrant history and is a great reservoir of
>>>> content. but in this day and age of TikTok, FB, Twitter (X), etc,
>>>> etc, how can we help invite new soaring people to our RAS
>>>> discussion forum? We need to provide them the easiest and fastest
>>>> method possible. Basically, <CLICK HERE> and instantly get content.
>>>>
>>>> We can easily provide a simple web link to get to RAS (i.e.
>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring). Unfortunately,
>>>> this current access to RAS has become almost impossible to view
>>>> with so much chaff amongst the wheat. Every USENET group I used to
>>>> view has become the same way. Very sad. Blame AI and bots? Who knows.
>>>>
>>>> Our best solution thus far to remove the chaff is to use, and
>>>> configure, a newsgroup viewing and filtering tool like Thunderbird.
>>>> Based on my working with our club's membership this is simply too
>>>> high of a hurdle for them.
>>>>
>>>> Suggestions:
>>>>
>>>> - Has anyone created an instruction manual (PDF) on how to
>>>> download, install, update, and configure Thunderbird or the like?
>>>> - Does a simple link exist for the user to get directly to an
>>>> already moderated "clean" version of rec.aviation.soaring?
>>>>
>>>> I would think that these things could be created by our soaring
>>>> techies. Heck, look at OGN and OLC to see what soaring technology
>>>> can be brought to bear.
>>>>
>>>> My $0.02.
>>>>
>>>> John (OHM)
>>>> Founder of RAS_Prime (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime)
>>> I like the last part. IMHO, saying one has to use a this or that app
>>> does not resolve the issue. In the legend of the Dutch boy who put
>>> his finger in the dike to stop a leak was only a bandaid, and did
>>> not help the population as a whole. Saying one has to use some
>>> specific app, other than what they’ve been using for this one
>>> purpose is a loser. Yes, of course, these apps can be used for more
>>> than RAS, but how do you convince someone to change from what
>>> they’ve been using for the past 20 years? In years past, I loved
>>> implementing the solution to my similar problems, but this is, as
>>> John points out, a different world. For the population as a whole,
>>> email is a tool and most can’t get beyond setting it up, regardless
>>> of the app. Suggesting using Thunderbird seems to solve the issue
>>> for the one user, but not the population as a whole. There is no
>>> reason I can’t put thunderbird on my computer to solve the RAS issue
>>> for me, but why should I have to do that? RAS has been a valuable
>>> asset, but unless the basic issue is solved (and not bandaided
>>> over), users are going to start disappearing for reasons John
>>> specified. If you were to tell a newbie that RAS is a great tool,
>>> but they have to install AppFilterSpam, maybe some will, but most
>>> won’t, again IMHO.
>>> Eric B. (No longer a user of RAS, other than to vent.)

Dan,

It would be disingenuous of me if I were to say ]that I somehow knew ahead of time about what has now happened to RAS in the last 2 months. It is very sad indeed. I wish it were not so. But it is so.

But I think you are missing a point or two about what you said:

- You won't lose access to the legacy of useful information existing on RAS which is our collective tribal knowledge. It will remain there forever in RAS and accessible.
- You are used to, and continue to experience, the beauty of a clean RAS. But any new user who is shown RAS as it is right now will look at it with consternation and confusion. He will ask "Where is the information?". You will answer, "Click here, click there, install this, configure that, then remove these.". That doesn't welcome the unwashed to our favorite soaring forum.
- We were all "spoon-fed" at some point at the beginning of our use of RAS and flying gliders.
- Those "coddled few" you mention are actuality in the majority.
- You like "unmoderated and uncensored". I do too. RAS_Prime is "unmoderated and uncensored". Unless, of course, someone is a spammer.
- With RAS you can't add a picture to your post. With RAS you can't add a document to your post. These are valuable things and worth a thousand words..
- You talk about how you remove an offending email address with a few clicks. True, it is not too difficult. But, unfortunately this is a never-ending battle as spammers seldom use the same address twice to avoid deletion.

I feel that we must move on.

Regards, John DeRosa
West Dundee, IL

On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 7:03:14 AM UTC+1, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Dan,
>
> It would be disingenuous of me if I were to say ]that I somehow knew ahead of time about what has now happened to RAS in the last 2 months. It is very sad indeed. I wish it were not so. But it is so.
>
> But I think you are missing a point or two about what you said:
>
> - You won't lose access to the legacy of useful information existing on RAS which is our collective tribal knowledge. It will remain there forever in RAS and accessible.
> - You are used to, and continue to experience, the beauty of a clean RAS. But any new user who is shown RAS as it is right now will look at it with consternation and confusion. He will ask "Where is the information?". You will answer, "Click here, click there, install this, configure that, then remove these.". That doesn't welcome the unwashed to our favorite soaring forum.
> - We were all "spoon-fed" at some point at the beginning of our use of RAS and flying gliders.
> - Those "coddled few" you mention are actuality in the majority.
> - You like "unmoderated and uncensored". I do too. RAS_Prime is "unmoderated and uncensored". Unless, of course, someone is a spammer.
> - With RAS you can't add a picture to your post. With RAS you can't add a document to your post. These are valuable things and worth a thousand words.
> - You talk about how you remove an offending email address with a few clicks. True, it is not too difficult. But, unfortunately this is a never-ending battle as spammers seldom use the same address twice to avoid deletion.
>
> I feel that we must move on.
>
> Regards, John DeRosa
> West Dundee, IL

Can't we get this under control again if everybody starts reporting all these messages as spam to google? I started doing that yesterday and think that if more people report it as spam google might actually realize it really is spam.

Regards, Gijs Doeglas

> Can't we get this under control again if everybody starts reporting all these messages as spam to google? I started doing that yesterday and think that if more people report it as spam google might actually realize it really is spam.
> Regards, Gijs Doeglas
I agree, it's at least worth a try. I started about a week ago, and went right back to the beginning of it ~6 weeks ago.
But could it be that Google isn't interested, because they are just mirroring some other site? Or is that an urban myth?
James.

Google is your friend.  Yeah, remember when they started up their motto
was (or included the phrase) "Do no harm"?  I think they dropped that...

Dan 5J
On 11/28/23 04:41, metca...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Can't we get this under control again if everybody starts reporting all these messages as spam to google? I started doing that yesterday and think that if more people report it as spam google might actually realize it really is spam.
>> Regards, Gijs Doeglas
> I agree, it's at least worth a try. I started about a week ago, and went right back to the beginning of it ~6 weeks ago.
> But could it be that Google isn't interested, because they are just mirroring some other site? Or is that an urban myth?
> James.

It was "Don't be evil", and they still say that. It's just ...er... de-emphasized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil

On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 10:10:30 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Google is your friend. Yeah, remember when they started up their motto
> was (or included the phrase) "Do no harm"? I think they dropped that...
>
>

Thanks, Sarah.  Good to know there's still someone out there.

Dan 5J
On 11/28/23 12:48, Sarah wrote:
> It was "Don't be evil", and they still say that. It's just ...er... de-emphasized.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil
>
> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 10:10:30 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Google is your friend. Yeah, remember when they started up their motto
>> was (or included the phrase) "Do no harm"? I think they dropped that...
>>
>>

On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 12:20:10 AM UTC+1, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 1:03:14 AM UTC-5, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > Dan,
> >
> > It would be disingenuous of me if I were to say ]that I somehow knew ahead of time about what has now happened to RAS in the last 2 months. It is very sad indeed. I wish it were not so. But it is so.
> >
> > But I think you are missing a point or two about what you said:
> >
> > - You won't lose access to the legacy of useful information existing on RAS which is our collective tribal knowledge. It will remain there forever in RAS and accessible.
> > - You are used to, and continue to experience, the beauty of a clean RAS. But any new user who is shown RAS as it is right now will look at it with consternation and confusion. He will ask "Where is the information?". You will answer, "Click here, click there, install this, configure that, then remove these.". That doesn't welcome the unwashed to our favorite soaring forum.
> > - We were all "spoon-fed" at some point at the beginning of our use of RAS and flying gliders.
> > - Those "coddled few" you mention are actuality in the majority.
> > - You like "unmoderated and uncensored". I do too. RAS_Prime is "unmoderated and uncensored". Unless, of course, someone is a spammer.
> > - With RAS you can't add a picture to your post. With RAS you can't add a document to your post. These are valuable things and worth a thousand words.
> > - You talk about how you remove an offending email address with a few clicks. True, it is not too difficult. But, unfortunately this is a never-ending battle as spammers seldom use the same address twice to avoid deletion..
> >
> > I feel that we must move on.
> >
> > Regards, John DeRosa
> > West Dundee, IL
> Interesting about this conversation is that RAS Prime was started long before the October 27 or so flooding of spam. I recently went back to the first posting of RAS Prime and noticed that one of the main objections to RAS was the content and not the abundance of spam. RAS Prime was first introduced over 18 months ago and as I have noted on several occasions the participation has been minimal to say the least. Moving forward to a more current timeline the spam on RAS has forced many including myself to seek the Prime venue. I do like some of the features of Prime, the picture posting is a nice feature, the format is pretty much the same as RAS.
> My question is this, If RAS Prime is not about content then why was it introduced long before the deluge of spam? My own observation was that RAS Prime was a content control platform, please correct me if I am wrong. RAS Prime was NOT developed as an unmoderated or uncensored venue, not that I dislike the venue, I do think that it has advantages over the current RAS, but it was not hardly used until the current flooding of mushrooms, Zanax, penis worshipers, and other fruitcake indulgences. Old Bob, The Purist

Who is the Admin of this group, because when I click on "About" of this group, it says that "anyone on the Web" can post messages? Isn't that easy to change?

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:47:15 AM UTC-5, Gijs wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 12:20:10 AM UTC+1, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 1:03:14 AM UTC-5, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > > Dan,
> > >
> > > It would be disingenuous of me if I were to say ]that I somehow knew ahead of time about what has now happened to RAS in the last 2 months. It is very sad indeed. I wish it were not so. But it is so.
> > >
> > > But I think you are missing a point or two about what you said:
> > >
> > > - You won't lose access to the legacy of useful information existing on RAS which is our collective tribal knowledge. It will remain there forever in RAS and accessible.
> > > - You are used to, and continue to experience, the beauty of a clean RAS. But any new user who is shown RAS as it is right now will look at it with consternation and confusion. He will ask "Where is the information?". You will answer, "Click here, click there, install this, configure that, then remove these.". That doesn't welcome the unwashed to our favorite soaring forum.
> > > - We were all "spoon-fed" at some point at the beginning of our use of RAS and flying gliders.
> > > - Those "coddled few" you mention are actuality in the majority.
> > > - You like "unmoderated and uncensored". I do too. RAS_Prime is "unmoderated and uncensored". Unless, of course, someone is a spammer.
> > > - With RAS you can't add a picture to your post. With RAS you can't add a document to your post. These are valuable things and worth a thousand words.
> > > - You talk about how you remove an offending email address with a few clicks. True, it is not too difficult. But, unfortunately this is a never-ending battle as spammers seldom use the same address twice to avoid deletion.
> > >
> > > I feel that we must move on.
> > >
> > > Regards, John DeRosa
> > > West Dundee, IL
> > Interesting about this conversation is that RAS Prime was started long before the October 27 or so flooding of spam. I recently went back to the first posting of RAS Prime and noticed that one of the main objections to RAS was the content and not the abundance of spam. RAS Prime was first introduced over 18 months ago and as I have noted on several occasions the participation has been minimal to say the least. Moving forward to a more current timeline the spam on RAS has forced many including myself to seek the Prime venue. I do like some of the features of Prime, the picture posting is a nice feature, the format is pretty much the same as RAS.
> > My question is this, If RAS Prime is not about content then why was it introduced long before the deluge of spam? My own observation was that RAS Prime was a content control platform, please correct me if I am wrong. RAS Prime was NOT developed as an unmoderated or uncensored venue, not that I dislike the venue, I do think that it has advantages over the current RAS, but it was not hardly used until the current flooding of mushrooms, Zanax, penis worshipers, and other fruitcake indulgences. Old Bob, The Purist
> Who is the Admin of this group, because when I click on "About" of this group, it says that "anyone on the Web" can post messages? Isn't that easy to change?
Yes, but you would need Google to do something. So far, they haven't.

Internet news goes back to before dawn of the internet - back when there were mainly government, lab & university network nodes.
It's called "Usenet". It is completely unmoderated, decentralized, and not sponsored by a giant corporation. There is no
"administrator".

Google has their own group of news channels they call "Google groups" This is what RAS_Prime is.
That's where the references to administration & owners comes from.

The original Usenet groups are also distributed by Google, but support is poor. Particularly spam rejection.
The spam storm may pass when Google wakes up. Or not. They have little motivation for supporting Usenet.

I understand non-internet-savvy soaring pilots have little patience with figuring out how to access RAS with a proper news reader
that filters out the spam.

Some of the problems people have are because their ISP may block the default NNTP ports. As a last resort, try reader80
and port 80. They can't block '80', that's the one http uses.

The registration email you get from
eternal-september mentions other news servers that support other "port numbers". Worth trying both, and the unencrypted ones may be
simpler. I use "563" and enable SSL/TLS encryption, YMMV.

----------------------------------
Server name: news.eternal-september.org
----------------------------------
Port : 119
Port : 563 (encrypted)

----------------------------------
Server name: reader80.eternal-september.org
----------------------------------
Port : 80

----------------------------------
Server name: reader443.eternal-september.org
----------------------------------
Port : 443 (encrypted)

On 11/30/23 6:24 AM, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
.....
>> Who is the Admin of this group, because when I click on "About" of this group, it says that "anyone on the Web" can post messages? Isn't that easy to change?
> Yes, but you would need Google to do something. So far, they haven't.

Not for much longer I fear. The group is choked with spam and the few who switched to eternal-september seem to be a small minority
of RAS users.

My motivation to keep RAS alive is a deep distrust of large corporations and a desire to maintain Usenet as it is.
Decentralized, uncensored (except for spam), and optionally anonymous. Just like being in public, and not owned by Google.
Seriously, if corporations are people they tend to psychopathy.

On 11/28/23 4:48 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Thanks, Sarah.  Good to know there's still someone out there.
>
> Dan 5J
> On 11/28/23 12:48, Sarah wrote:
>> It was "Don't be evil", and they still say that. It's just ...er... de-emphasized.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 10:10:30 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>> Google is your friend.  Yeah, remember when they started up their motto
>>> was (or included the phrase) "Do no harm"?  I think they dropped that...
>>>
>>>

On 12/3/2023 11:55 AM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> Not for much longer I fear. The group is choked with spam and the few
> who switched to eternal-september seem to be a small minority of RAS users.
>
> My motivation to keep RAS alive is a deep distrust of large corporations
> and a desire to maintain Usenet as it is.
> Decentralized, uncensored (except for spam), and optionally anonymous.
> Just like being in public, and not owned by Google.
> Seriously, if corporations are people they tend to psychopathy.
>
>
> On 11/28/23 4:48 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Thanks, Sarah.  Good to know there's still someone out there.
>>
>> Dan 5J
>> On 11/28/23 12:48, Sarah wrote:
>>> It was "Don't be evil", and they still say that. It's just ...er...
>>> de-emphasized.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 10:10:30 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> Google is your friend.  Yeah, remember when they started up their motto
>>>> was (or included the phrase) "Do no harm"?  I think they dropped
>>>> that...
>>>>
>>>>

I agree with your sentiments, Sarah. I was participating in Usenet
before "the internet" existed, let alone the "world wide web". So maybe
I'm sentimental and naive. But I miss those days when the participants
were voluntarily civil.

And I don't like Google owning everything and tracking everything about
us. RAS-Prime is set up on Google Groups, so it's still owned by
Google. I'd be a bit happier if it was on some other "platform" (such
as groups.io), but those are all centrally owned and may go "poof" at
any time. Usenet is not owned by anybody, and is distributed, so that
if or when any single repository goes poof it still leaves all the
others intact. Where else but on Usenet can you search for postings
from 20+ years ago? Note how Yahoo Groups got booted, with all the
posting history there lost, except for those groups that bothered to
copy all their postings to a new platform in time. The new platform
each such group chose cannot be counted on for the long term either.

This is also one of the many reasons I don't touch Facebook: besides
being commercial and spying on you etc, it is just not a long-term
strategy for a "collective memory". I keep wishing somebody would come
up with a decentralized model for "social media". Since each persons'
social connections are "localized" around that person, and only venture
farther out to a finite and diminishing extent, it seems that storing
the data locally (within the computers owned by the person, with copies
of relevant parts tending to be stored on that person's "friends") is a
possible model. I gather some young man was working on such software,
and mysteriously dropped dead a few years ago. Nothing to see here,
keep moving along...

My "Social Media" consists of my email address book.

I have a Facebook account because a decade or more ago my brother
convinced me to sign up.  I closed my account but they "keep your data
for a while in case you decide to come back".  The TV show, Southpark
did a terrific spoof of facebook and those poor souls who are trapped
within.

I wonder if that young man who mysteriously dropped dead had any
connection to Hillary Clinton...

Dan 5J
On 12/4/23 11:49, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 12/3/2023 11:55 AM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>> Not for much longer I fear. The group is choked with spam and the few
>> who switched to eternal-september seem to be a small minority of RAS
>> users.
>>
>> My motivation to keep RAS alive is a deep distrust of large
>> corporations and a desire to maintain Usenet as it is.
>> Decentralized, uncensored (except for spam), and optionally
>> anonymous. Just like being in public, and not owned by Google.
>> Seriously, if corporations are people they tend to psychopathy.
>>
>>
>> On 11/28/23 4:48 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>> Thanks, Sarah.  Good to know there's still someone out there.
>>>
>>> Dan 5J
>>> On 11/28/23 12:48, Sarah wrote:
>>>> It was "Don't be evil", and they still say that. It's just ...er...
>>>> de-emphasized.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 10:10:30 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>>> Google is your friend.  Yeah, remember when they started up their
>>>>> motto
>>>>> was (or included the phrase) "Do no harm"?  I think they dropped
>>>>> that...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
> I agree with your sentiments, Sarah.  I was participating in Usenet
> before "the internet" existed, let alone the "world wide web".  So
> maybe I'm sentimental and naive.  But I miss those days when the
> participants were voluntarily civil.
>
> And I don't like Google owning everything and tracking everything
> about us.  RAS-Prime is set up on Google Groups, so it's still owned
> by Google.  I'd be a bit happier if it was on some other "platform"
> (such as groups.io), but those are all centrally owned and may go
> "poof" at any time.  Usenet is not owned by anybody, and is
> distributed, so that if or when any single repository goes poof it
> still leaves all the others intact.  Where else but on Usenet can you
> search for postings from 20+ years ago?  Note how Yahoo Groups got
> booted, with all the posting history there lost, except for those
> groups that bothered to copy all their postings to a new platform in
> time.  The new platform each such group chose cannot be counted on for
> the long term either.
>
> This is also one of the many reasons I don't touch Facebook: besides
> being commercial and spying on you etc, it is just not a long-term
> strategy for a "collective memory".  I keep wishing somebody would
> come up with a decentralized model for "social media".  Since each
> persons' social connections are "localized" around that person, and
> only venture farther out to a finite and diminishing extent, it seems
> that storing the data locally (within the computers owned by the
> person, with copies of relevant parts tending to be stored on that
> person's "friends") is a possible model.  I gather some young man was
> working on such software, and mysteriously dropped dead a few years
> ago.  Nothing to see here, keep moving along...

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-6, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> I just looked in on groups.google.com and r.a.s really is unusably bad. Pages and pages of repetitive spam.
> Looking at a few other USENET groups at random in the rec.* branches, I didn't see this much junk.
>
> Using the google page, there is a gear icon... one of the options there is "send feedback to google", which I did.
> Worth a try, but I'm not holding my breath.
>
> As far as a primer, I don't think it can be much easier than the following. There's just too much variability in platforms & ISPs
> and preferences. There is probably more than one way to set up t-bird, I'll just describe what works for me.
>
> I can't speak to phone/tablet versions since I don't use them for USENET. Others are.
>
> -- --
>
> 1. Download and install an appropriate (free) version of mozilla thunderbird. You don't have to change whatever you're doing now
> with email. Here: https://www.thunderbird.net/
>
> 2. Go to "https://www.eternal-september.org/" and "register", with your name, and an arbitrary userID and an email E-S can contact
> you with. (Free). This email address, and userID are only used for contacting the E-S server and are not published. Once
> registered, you should receive an email with a generated password and other instructions from E-S.
>
> 3. Start and configure thunderbird. "File -> New -> Newsgroup Account". At this point you will be prompted for a display name and
> email address, which *will* be used for your public messages in the newsgroup. Select the new group you created and you should see a
> page with setup options. Click on the top line "Account settings" and set thunderbird to point to the news server and port mentioned
> in the email from step 2, above. The first time you connect, you will receive a pop-up prompt for the userID/password you
> registered with E-S. If it helps, for configuration on os X I am using
> Server Name: news.eternal-september.org
> Port: 563
> Connection security: SSL/TLS
>
> To send messages, you will also need a "SMTP" SimpleMailTransferProtocol server. Look into your ISP documentation or current email
> setup for what that needs to be. I am using my ISP:
> Server Name: smtp.comcast.net
> Port: 465
> Connection security: SSL/TLS
> Authentication method: Normal password
> User Name: MyCom...@comcast.net
>
> 4. "subscribe" to rec.aviation.soaring. (Free). The key press varies, but on OS X, a control-click on the newsgroup you created
> brings up a pop-up menu including "subscribe". You can use this to check the box for R.A.S. and whatever else you want.
>
>
> --Fin--

Well, I will agree that is simpler than the 212 page Guide to Civil Aircraft Registry Electronic Services. CARES, for those who love the government and their acronyms.

https://www.faa.gov/media/66806

If you can make it through all of that, well, they you can avoid sending in a paper Bill of Sale, Application for Aircraft Registration, and a check.

For those wanting to see if something can be done by reporting the spamming, try selecting the box top left to "select all on the page". Scroll down and uncheck any that are real, then, instead of "Report as Spam", select "Promotion of Regulated Goods and Services". Maybe that will carry a higher weight? Or, look to other than just "Spam".

Now, to really dream big, once I have reported it, Dear Google Group Viewer, can you please just hide it, and not show a place holder for it saying "This conversation is hidden because you reported it for abuse." That is the most useless POS answer I have seen, but why should I not expect it from Google? So good at some things, worthless as a wind driven generator on a calm night on so many other things.

Steve Leonard

On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 3:49:19 PM UTC-5, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-6, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> > I just looked in on groups.google.com and r.a.s really is unusably bad. Pages and pages of repetitive spam.
> > Looking at a few other USENET groups at random in the rec.* branches, I didn't see this much junk.
> >
> > Using the google page, there is a gear icon... one of the options there is "send feedback to google", which I did.
> > Worth a try, but I'm not holding my breath.
> >
> > As far as a primer, I don't think it can be much easier than the following. There's just too much variability in platforms & ISPs
> > and preferences. There is probably more than one way to set up t-bird, I'll just describe what works for me.
> >
> > I can't speak to phone/tablet versions since I don't use them for USENET. Others are.
> >
> > -- --
> >
> > 1. Download and install an appropriate (free) version of mozilla thunderbird. You don't have to change whatever you're doing now
> > with email. Here: https://www.thunderbird.net/
> >
> > 2. Go to "https://www.eternal-september.org/" and "register", with your name, and an arbitrary userID and an email E-S can contact
> > you with. (Free). This email address, and userID are only used for contacting the E-S server and are not published. Once
> > registered, you should receive an email with a generated password and other instructions from E-S.
> >
> > 3. Start and configure thunderbird. "File -> New -> Newsgroup Account". At this point you will be prompted for a display name and
> > email address, which *will* be used for your public messages in the newsgroup. Select the new group you created and you should see a
> > page with setup options. Click on the top line "Account settings" and set thunderbird to point to the news server and port mentioned
> > in the email from step 2, above. The first time you connect, you will receive a pop-up prompt for the userID/password you
> > registered with E-S. If it helps, for configuration on os X I am using
> > Server Name: news.eternal-september.org
> > Port: 563
> > Connection security: SSL/TLS
> >
> > To send messages, you will also need a "SMTP" SimpleMailTransferProtocol server. Look into your ISP documentation or current email
> > setup for what that needs to be. I am using my ISP:
> > Server Name: smtp.comcast.net
> > Port: 465
> > Connection security: SSL/TLS
> > Authentication method: Normal password
> > User Name: MyCom...@comcast.net
> >
> > 4. "subscribe" to rec.aviation.soaring. (Free). The key press varies, but on OS X, a control-click on the newsgroup you created
> > brings up a pop-up menu including "subscribe". You can use this to check the box for R.A.S. and whatever else you want.
> >
> >
> > --Fin--
> Well, I will agree that is simpler than the 212 page Guide to Civil Aircraft Registry Electronic Services. CARES, for those who love the government and their acronyms.
>
> https://www.faa.gov/media/66806
>
> If you can make it through all of that, well, they you can avoid sending in a paper Bill of Sale, Application for Aircraft Registration, and a check..
>
> For those wanting to see if something can be done by reporting the spamming, try selecting the box top left to "select all on the page". Scroll down and uncheck any that are real, then, instead of "Report as Spam", select "Promotion of Regulated Goods and Services". Maybe that will carry a higher weight? Or, look to other than just "Spam".
>
> Now, to really dream big, once I have reported it, Dear Google Group Viewer, can you please just hide it, and not show a place holder for it saying "This conversation is hidden because you reported it for abuse." That is the most useless POS answer I have seen, but why should I not expect it from Google? So good at some things, worthless as a wind driven generator on a calm night on so many other things.
>
> Steve Leonard
Steve, I like your "mass method" of reporting the spam. I was happy to see the blue stop sign on a thread and click that....saved some steps over reporting 1 by 1.

On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 10:45:07 PM UTC-5, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 3:49:19 PM UTC-5, Steve Leonard wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-6, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> > > I just looked in on groups.google.com and r.a.s really is unusably bad. Pages and pages of repetitive spam.
> > > Looking at a few other USENET groups at random in the rec.* branches, I didn't see this much junk.
> > >
> > > Using the google page, there is a gear icon... one of the options there is "send feedback to google", which I did.
> > > Worth a try, but I'm not holding my breath.
> > >
> > > As far as a primer, I don't think it can be much easier than the following. There's just too much variability in platforms & ISPs
> > > and preferences. There is probably more than one way to set up t-bird, I'll just describe what works for me.
> > >
> > > I can't speak to phone/tablet versions since I don't use them for USENET. Others are.
> > >
> > > -- --
> > >
> > > 1. Download and install an appropriate (free) version of mozilla thunderbird. You don't have to change whatever you're doing now
> > > with email. Here: https://www.thunderbird.net/
> > >
> > > 2. Go to "https://www.eternal-september.org/" and "register", with your name, and an arbitrary userID and an email E-S can contact
> > > you with. (Free). This email address, and userID are only used for contacting the E-S server and are not published. Once
> > > registered, you should receive an email with a generated password and other instructions from E-S.
> > >
> > > 3. Start and configure thunderbird. "File -> New -> Newsgroup Account". At this point you will be prompted for a display name and
> > > email address, which *will* be used for your public messages in the newsgroup. Select the new group you created and you should see a
> > > page with setup options. Click on the top line "Account settings" and set thunderbird to point to the news server and port mentioned
> > > in the email from step 2, above. The first time you connect, you will receive a pop-up prompt for the userID/password you
> > > registered with E-S. If it helps, for configuration on os X I am using
> > > Server Name: news.eternal-september.org
> > > Port: 563
> > > Connection security: SSL/TLS
> > >
> > > To send messages, you will also need a "SMTP" SimpleMailTransferProtocol server. Look into your ISP documentation or current email
> > > setup for what that needs to be. I am using my ISP:
> > > Server Name: smtp.comcast.net
> > > Port: 465
> > > Connection security: SSL/TLS
> > > Authentication method: Normal password
> > > User Name: MyCom...@comcast.net
> > >
> > > 4. "subscribe" to rec.aviation.soaring. (Free). The key press varies, but on OS X, a control-click on the newsgroup you created
> > > brings up a pop-up menu including "subscribe". You can use this to check the box for R.A.S. and whatever else you want.
> > >
> > >
> > > --Fin--
> > Well, I will agree that is simpler than the 212 page Guide to Civil Aircraft Registry Electronic Services. CARES, for those who love the government and their acronyms.
> >
> > https://www.faa.gov/media/66806
> >
> > If you can make it through all of that, well, they you can avoid sending in a paper Bill of Sale, Application for Aircraft Registration, and a check.
> >
> > For those wanting to see if something can be done by reporting the spamming, try selecting the box top left to "select all on the page". Scroll down and uncheck any that are real, then, instead of "Report as Spam", select "Promotion of Regulated Goods and Services". Maybe that will carry a higher weight? Or, look to other than just "Spam".
> >
> > Now, to really dream big, once I have reported it, Dear Google Group Viewer, can you please just hide it, and not show a place holder for it saying "This conversation is hidden because you reported it for abuse." That is the most useless POS answer I have seen, but why should I not expect it from Google? So good at some things, worthless as a wind driven generator on a calm night on so many other things.
> >
> > Steve Leonard
> Steve, I like your "mass method" of reporting the spam. I was happy to see the blue stop sign on a thread and click that....saved some steps over reporting 1 by 1.
Using "mass method", I just...
Well, I just spent the time to report over 1200 threads as "spam" or "other". In that, there were 3(?) valid threads for this group.
Oh, and it got me to 11/29/23