Where is the "new" RAS?

--
Dan 5J

Wonder how hard it would be to make a web-based NNTP setup that would
roughly do what Google did, except only for RAS? IMO that would be a better
use of efforts to make a new website.... however I haven't worked with NNTP
and not sure what would be involved.

On 3/5/24 12:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>Where is the "new" RAS?

That's a good idea. Someone with time and background in active webpage design could improve on google's work.

Here's a project (C#) that illustrates how little is needed by NNTP. The rest of the work is the user interface.
I suggest a monochrome green text-only window with a blinking cursor. It should be designed to also run well on an ASR-33 teletype. ;)

https://www.geekpedia.com/developing-an-nntp-newsgroup-reader/

On 3/5/24 10:34 PM, GliderWobble wrote:
> Wonder how hard it would be to make a web-based NNTP setup that would
> roughly do what Google did, except only for RAS? IMO that would be a better
> use of efforts to make a new website.... however I haven't worked with NNTP
> and not sure what would be involved.
> On 3/5/24 12:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>
>

Just a mere matter of software.
Preventing/filtering spam is hard though.
Why would this have any advantage over using Thunderbird??

On 3/6/2024 8:36 AM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> That's a good idea. Someone with time and background in active webpage
> design could improve on google's work.
>
> Here's a project (C#) that illustrates how little is needed by NNTP.
> The rest of the work is the user interface.
> I suggest a monochrome green text-only window with a blinking cursor.
> It should be designed to also run well on an ASR-33 teletype.  ;)
>
> https://www.geekpedia.com/developing-an-nntp-newsgroup-reader/
>
> On 3/5/24 10:34 PM, GliderWobble wrote:
>> Wonder how hard it would be to make a web-based NNTP setup that would
>> roughly do what Google did, except only for RAS? IMO that would be a
>> better use of efforts to make a new website....
>> however I haven't worked with NNTP and not sure what would be involved.
>> On 3/5/24 12:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>> Where is the "new" RAS?

I think the idea is to point to an existing NNTP server, like eternal-september (which gets rid of 99.99% of the spam.)
You could use a custom web-page "app" that displays/posts just like google RAS used to.

But you're right, it's not better. Just skips a step, installing t-bird.
People would still need to set up an account on e-s.

A UI is a lot of work. (Unless ChatGPT can write it).

I don't think it would help. Google may have killed Usenet by "supporting it", making people forget what a news reader is... and
then dropping it.

On 3/6/24 9:35 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
> Just a mere matter of software.
> Preventing/filtering spam is hard though.
> Why would this have any advantage over using Thunderbird??
>
> On 3/6/2024 8:36 AM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>> That's a good idea. Someone with time and background in active webpage design could improve on google's work.
>>
>> Here's a project (C#) that illustrates how little is needed by NNTP. The rest of the work is the user interface.
>> I suggest a monochrome green text-only window with a blinking cursor. It should be designed to also run well on an ASR-33
>> teletype.  ;)
>>
>> https://www.geekpedia.com/developing-an-nntp-newsgroup-reader/
>>
>> On 3/5/24 10:34 PM, GliderWobble wrote:
>>> Wonder how hard it would be to make a web-based NNTP setup that would
>>> roughly do what Google did, except only for RAS? IMO that would be a better use of efforts to make a new website....
>>> however I haven't worked with NNTP and not sure what would be involved.
>>> On 3/5/24 12:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>

Well, I got a PM from one of the users and he sent me a link to what
appears to be rasprime.  Seems like there are an awful lot of postings
and that's great, but it looks like it's google groups. So, what's the
status?  Is google dropping ras or groups in general?

Dan 5J
On 3/5/24 12:36, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Where is the "new" RAS?
>

"RAS_Prime" is a Google "Groups" site. Google is supporting those with no changes -- just not Usenet, RAS the original.

You can read it here: https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime

Could be worse. Could be a facebook group.

On 3/6/24 2:46 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Well, I got a PM from one of the users and he sent me a link to what appears to be rasprime.  Seems like there are an awful lot of
> postings and that's great, but it looks like it's google groups. So, what's the status?  Is google dropping ras or groups in general?
>
> Dan 5J
> On 3/5/24 12:36, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>>

On 06/03/2024 17:23, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> I think the idea is to point to an existing NNTP server, like
> eternal-september (which gets rid of 99.99% of the spam.)

It is more likely that it is T-bird that is removing the spam.

It does arrive from eternal-september.org, but is promptly expired (as
is OBTP😛).

> You could use a custom web-page "app" that displays/posts just like
> google RAS used to.
>
> But you're right, it's not better.  Just skips a step, installing t-bird.
> People would still need to set up an account on e-s.
>
> A UI is a lot of work. (Unless ChatGPT can write it).
>
> I don't think it would help.  Google may have killed Usenet by
> "supporting it", making people forget what a news reader is... and then
> dropping it.
>
>
> On 3/6/24 9:35 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
>> Just a mere matter of software.
>> Preventing/filtering spam is hard though.
>> Why would this have any advantage over using Thunderbird??
>>
>> On 3/6/2024 8:36 AM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>>> That's a good idea. Someone with time and background in active
>>> webpage design could improve on google's work.
>>>
>>> Here's a project (C#) that illustrates how little is needed by NNTP.
>>> The rest of the work is the user interface.
>>> I suggest a monochrome green text-only window with a blinking cursor.
>>> It should be designed to also run well on an ASR-33 teletype.  ;)
>>>
>>> https://www.geekpedia.com/developing-an-nntp-newsgroup-reader/
>>>
>>> On 3/5/24 10:34 PM, GliderWobble wrote:
>>>> Wonder how hard it would be to make a web-based NNTP setup that would
>>>> roughly do what Google did, except only for RAS? IMO that would be a
>>>> better use of efforts to make a new website....
>>>> however I haven't worked with NNTP and not sure what would be involved.
>>>> On 3/5/24 12:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>>

Well, I guess I'll occasionally peruse it, but I don't think I want to
submit to the red banner, "must include a reason for joining".  Looks
like some little third world dictator is flexing his muscles.  He knows
who he is...

Dan 5J
On 3/6/24 14:24, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> "RAS_Prime" is a Google "Groups" site. Google is supporting those with
> no changes -- just not Usenet, RAS the original.
>
> You can read it here:  https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime
>
> Could be worse.  Could be a facebook group.
>
> On 3/6/24 2:46 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Well, I got a PM from one of the users and he sent me a link to what
>> appears to be rasprime.  Seems like there are an awful lot of
>> postings and that's great, but it looks like it's google groups. So,
>> what's the status?  Is google dropping ras or groups in general?
>>
>> Dan 5J
>> On 3/5/24 12:36, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>>>

Steady, big fella! The moderation is to keep the penis worshipers out, not totally
acceptable glider pilots such as yourself; also, I think you can read the postings without
joining. Give it a whirl.
Eric G

On 3/6/2024 2:35 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Well, I guess I'll occasionally peruse it, but I don't think I want to submit to the red
> banner, "must include a reason for joining".  Looks like some little third world dictator
> is flexing his muscles.  He knows who he is...
>
> Dan 5J
> On 3/6/24 14:24, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>> "RAS_Prime" is a Google "Groups" site. Google is supporting those with no changes --
>> just not Usenet, RAS the original.
>>
>> You can read it here:  https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime
>>
>> Could be worse.  Could be a facebook group.
>>
>> On 3/6/24 2:46 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>> Well, I got a PM from one of the users and he sent me a link to what appears to be
>>> rasprime.  Seems like there are an awful lot of postings and that's great, but it looks
>>> like it's google groups. So, what's the status?  Is google dropping ras or groups in
>>> general?
>>>
>>> Dan 5J
>>> On 3/5/24 12:36, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>>>>

Yup, I looked at the postings and found some interesting stuff, but I
think I'm past contributing anything useful.  My stuff is old and solid
and, should anyone need or want my help, my email address is available
to all on this site.  You can probably still find it on the SSA site, as
well.

And, as to the weirdos, Thunderbird seems to take care of all of that

Dan 5J
On 3/7/24 07:32, Eric G wrote:
> Steady, big fella! The moderation is to keep the penis worshipers out,
> not totally acceptable glider pilots such as yourself; also, I think
> you can read the postings without joining. Give it a whirl.
> Eric G
>
> On 3/6/2024 2:35 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Well, I guess I'll occasionally peruse it, but I don't think I want
>> to submit to the red banner, "must include a reason for joining". 
>> Looks like some little third world dictator is flexing his muscles. 
>> He knows who he is...
>>
>> Dan 5J
>> On 3/6/24 14:24, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>>> "RAS_Prime" is a Google "Groups" site. Google is supporting those
>>> with no changes -- just not Usenet, RAS the original.
>>>
>>> You can read it here:  https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime
>>>
>>> Could be worse.  Could be a facebook group.
>>>
>>> On 3/6/24 2:46 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> Well, I got a PM from one of the users and he sent me a link to
>>>> what appears to be rasprime.  Seems like there are an awful lot of
>>>> postings and that's great, but it looks like it's google groups.
>>>> So, what's the status?  Is google dropping ras or groups in general?
>>>>
>>>> Dan 5J
>>>> On 3/5/24 12:36, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>>>>>
>

On 3/6/2024 12:23 PM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
> I think the idea is to point to an existing NNTP server, like
> eternal-september (which gets rid of 99.99% of the spam.)
> You could use a custom web-page "app" that displays/posts just like
> google RAS used to.
>
> But you're right, it's not better.  Just skips a step, installing t-bird.
> People would still need to set up an account on e-s.
>
> A UI is a lot of work. (Unless ChatGPT can write it).
>
> I don't think it would help.  Google may have killed Usenet by
> "supporting it", making people forget what a news reader is... and then
> dropping it.
>
>
> On 3/6/24 9:35 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
>> Just a mere matter of software.
>> Preventing/filtering spam is hard though.
>> Why would this have any advantage over using Thunderbird??
>>
>> On 3/6/2024 8:36 AM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>>> That's a good idea. Someone with time and background in active
>>> webpage design could improve on google's work.
>>>
>>> Here's a project (C#) that illustrates how little is needed by NNTP.
>>> The rest of the work is the user interface.
>>> I suggest a monochrome green text-only window with a blinking cursor.
>>> It should be designed to also run well on an ASR-33 teletype.  ;)
>>>
>>> https://www.geekpedia.com/developing-an-nntp-newsgroup-reader/
>>>
>>> On 3/5/24 10:34 PM, GliderWobble wrote:
>>>> Wonder how hard it would be to make a web-based NNTP setup that would
>>>> roughly do what Google did, except only for RAS? IMO that would be a
>>>> better use of efforts to make a new website....
>>>> however I haven't worked with NNTP and not sure what would be involved.
>>>> On 3/5/24 12:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>>

If the server this hypothetical web thing runs on has its own login to
Eternal September, why would visitors need their own login to *read*
postings? Its purpose should be to make it easy for visitors, no setup
needed.

Alternatively, instead of working through Eternal September, the server
can simply connect to NNTP just like the unix nodes of old. But limited
to one newsgroup. That would not provide any spam protection for
messages coming in from the rest of the world, but maybe that's not a
problem, now that Google is not a conduit.

In either case, such a server would need to store the messages, at least
the new ones, for a while. Just like TB does.

And in either case the question remains, how to handle posting of new
messages. Should a login be required? Would any moderation happen? Is
it needed? Certainly it would attract fewer spammers than the whole
Google entity did.

On 3/8/2024 6:35 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 3/6/2024 12:23 PM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>> I think the idea is to point to an existing NNTP server, like eternal-september (which
>> gets rid of 99.99% of the spam.)
>> You could use a custom web-page "app" that displays/posts just like google RAS used to.
>>
>> But you're right, it's not better.  Just skips a step, installing t-bird.
>> People would still need to set up an account on e-s.
>>
>> A UI is a lot of work. (Unless ChatGPT can write it).
>>
>> I don't think it would help.  Google may have killed Usenet by "supporting it", making
>> people forget what a news reader is... and then dropping it.
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/24 9:35 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
>>> Just a mere matter of software.
>>> Preventing/filtering spam is hard though.
>>> Why would this have any advantage over using Thunderbird??
>>>
>>> On 3/6/2024 8:36 AM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>>>> That's a good idea. Someone with time and background in active webpage design could
>>>> improve on google's work.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a project (C#) that illustrates how little is needed by NNTP. The rest of the
>>>> work is the user interface.
>>>> I suggest a monochrome green text-only window with a blinking cursor. It should be
>>>> designed to also run well on an ASR-33 teletype.  ;)
>>>>
>>>> https://www.geekpedia.com/developing-an-nntp-newsgroup-reader/
>>>>
>>>> On 3/5/24 10:34 PM, GliderWobble wrote:
>>>>> Wonder how hard it would be to make a web-based NNTP setup that would
>>>>> roughly do what Google did, except only for RAS? IMO that would be a better use of
>>>>> efforts to make a new website....
>>>>> however I haven't worked with NNTP and not sure what would be involved.
>>>>> On 3/5/24 12:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>>>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>>>
>
> If the server this hypothetical web thing runs on has its own login to Eternal September,
> why would visitors need their own login to *read* postings?  Its purpose should be to make
> it easy for visitors, no setup needed.
>
> Alternatively, instead of working through Eternal September, the server can simply connect
> to NNTP just like the unix nodes of old.  But limited to one newsgroup.  That would not
> provide any spam protection for messages coming in from the rest of the world, but maybe
> that's not a problem, now that Google is not a conduit.
>
> In either case, such a server would need to store the messages, at least the new ones, for
> a while.  Just like TB does.
>
> And in either case the question remains, how to handle posting of new messages.  Should a
> login be required?  Would any moderation happen?  Is it needed?  Certainly it would
> attract fewer spammers than the whole Google entity did.
>
Seems like a lot of effort to set up a group that many may not see as worth using over (or
in addition to) RAS_Prime. The only extra feature of it seems to be that Old Bob and Dan
might be willing to post on it.
Eric G

Yes, implementing even a simple news reader client in a web page (like Google's old RAS page) is
non-trivial. And even so, it would still have to lean on a peer-to-peer NNTP *server* such as Eternal-September.

Eric G: > Seems like a lot of effort to set up a group that many may not see as worth using over (or in addition to) RAS_Prime.

Exactly. Some idle webpage programmer who wants to replicate that client functionality will need to implement it using this, with
some tedious TCP/IP socket programming: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3977#page-28

Just use thunderbird or one of the many other Usenet apps. Or Ras_prime.

On 3/8/24 9:10 AM, Eric G wrote:
> On 3/8/2024 6:35 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
>> On 3/6/2024 12:23 PM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>>> I think the idea is to point to an existing NNTP server, like eternal-september (which gets rid of 99.99% of the spam.)
>>> You could use a custom web-page "app" that displays/posts just like google RAS used to.
>>>
>>> But you're right, it's not better.  Just skips a step, installing t-bird.
>>> People would still need to set up an account on e-s.
>>>
>>> A UI is a lot of work. (Unless ChatGPT can write it).
>>>
>>> I don't think it would help.  Google may have killed Usenet by "supporting it", making people forget what a news reader is... and
>>> then dropping it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/24 9:35 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
>>>> Just a mere matter of software.
>>>> Preventing/filtering spam is hard though.
>>>> Why would this have any advantage over using Thunderbird??
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/2024 8:36 AM, Sarah Anderson wrote:
>>>>> That's a good idea. Someone with time and background in active webpage design could improve on google's work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a project (C#) that illustrates how little is needed by NNTP. The rest of the work is the user interface.
>>>>> I suggest a monochrome green text-only window with a blinking cursor. It should be designed to also run well on an ASR-33
>>>>> teletype.  ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.geekpedia.com/developing-an-nntp-newsgroup-reader/
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/24 10:34 PM, GliderWobble wrote:
>>>>>> Wonder how hard it would be to make a web-based NNTP setup that would
>>>>>> roughly do what Google did, except only for RAS? IMO that would be a better use of efforts to make a new website....
>>>>>> however I haven't worked with NNTP and not sure what would be involved.
>>>>>> On 3/5/24 12:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>>>>> Where is the "new" RAS?
>>>>
>>
>> If the server this hypothetical web thing runs on has its own login to Eternal September, why would visitors need their own login
>> to *read* postings?  Its purpose should be to make it easy for visitors, no setup needed.
>>
>> Alternatively, instead of working through Eternal September, the server can simply connect to NNTP just like the unix nodes of
>> old.  But limited to one newsgroup.  That would not provide any spam protection for messages coming in from the rest of the world,
>> but maybe that's not a problem, now that Google is not a conduit.
>>
>> In either case, such a server would need to store the messages, at least the new ones, for a while.  Just like TB does.
>>
>> And in either case the question remains, how to handle posting of new messages.  Should a login be required?  Would any moderation
>> happen?  Is it needed?  Certainly it would attract fewer spammers than the whole Google entity did.
>>
> Seems like a lot of effort to set up a group that many may not see as worth using over (or in addition to) RAS_Prime. The only extra
> feature of it seems to be that Old Bob and Dan might be willing to post on it.
> Eric G