I have a laptop with no OS.. well I messed it up

I tried to reformat with GParted, but it was supsiciously fast. Formatting
should take forever, right? I'm going to try bootable DOS ISO. Some
mentioned EasyBCD but it does seem proprietary, and GParted terminal has a
pretty complete BASH. But then I am thinkig to format FAT16 initially.

It had w7 but moving the partition messed it up and notheing else will load

I decided I want to put XP on it, because w7 doesn't like to be moved

I am trying to replicate an old set up (2007 AOpen desktop - won't be able to
access) where I used GParted and GRUB to triple boot MSDOS 6.22, XP and
QUantian (Knoppix/Debian)

Laptop and OSes are all old, probably as old as my old set up.

Seems one major issue is IDE Legacy vs UEFI, and MBT vs GPT.
Apparently old DOS wants to be the first sector.

--
Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---

On 2023-02-05 21:57, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I have a laptop with no OS.. well I messed it up
>
> I tried to reformat with GParted, but it was supsiciously fast. Formatting
> should take forever, right?

No.

It is supposed to be very fast nowdays.

You maybe thinking of formatting floppies back then. That is no longer
needed on a modern hard disk. The sectors already exist. The format
program only has to (for example, for a FAT12/16/32) write the first
sector, then an empty FAT table of the appropriate size, then a root
directory table, and done. It doesn't bother checking sectors for
defects, nor erasing them of previous content. They are marked as empty
in the FAT, that's all.

Notice that erasing sectors on a thumbdrive or an SSD disk kill lives.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:

> Formatting should take forever, right?

The days of writing every sector are long past, quickformat rules.

vjp2.at@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I tried to reformat with GParted, but it was supsiciously fast.

GParted edits partition tables, it does not "format" -- so you were not
"reformatting" anything.

> Formatting should take forever, right?

Not since floppy disks disappeared and IDE hard drives appeared. Any
hard drive of IDE interface or newer is pre-formatted from the factory
and you can not "reformat" it at all.

What you are calling "formatting" is actually creating a partition
and initializing a filesystem -- but is not "formatting" (not as
"formatting" meant from the days of floppy disks).

And creating a partition is fast, involving the writing of only a few
sectors on the drive.

Creating a filesystem is also fast (involving simply writing the
filesystems management data onto the drive) and so depending on which
filesystem you wrote (if you did, GParted does not create filesystems)
that process could be very fast as well.

On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 15:16:28 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid>
wrote:

>Not since floppy disks disappeared and IDE hard drives appeared. Any
>hard drive of IDE interface or newer is pre-formatted from the factory
>and you can not "reformat" it at all.

Formatting was done before floppy discs or hard drives. It was done on
EDS before they could be used or moved. It was a very boring job often
on the night shift but it kept the price down and satisfied security
issues. I put discs on as many empty drives as possible, started the
formatting run and settled down for a few hours sleep.

On 2023-02-06 17:00, steve1001908@outlook.com wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 15:16:28 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Not since floppy disks disappeared and IDE hard drives appeared. Any
>> hard drive of IDE interface or newer is pre-formatted from the factory
>> and you can not "reformat" it at all.
>
> Formatting was done before floppy discs or hard drives. It was done on
> EDS before they could be used or moved. It was a very boring job often
> on the night shift but it kept the price down and satisfied security
> issues. I put discs on as many empty drives as possible, started the
> formatting run and settled down for a few hours sleep.

What's EDS?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 18:47:30 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-02-06 17:00, steve1001908@outlook.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 15:16:28 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Not since floppy disks disappeared and IDE hard drives appeared. Any
>>> hard drive of IDE interface or newer is pre-formatted from the factory
>>> and you can not "reformat" it at all.
>>
>> Formatting was done before floppy discs or hard drives. It was done on
>> EDS before they could be used or moved. It was a very boring job often
>> on the night shift but it kept the price down and satisfied security
>> issues. I put discs on as many empty drives as possible, started the
>> formatting run and settled down for a few hours sleep.
>
>What's EDS?

Exchangeable Disc System.

Thanks

I had removed all partitions

I'm sure there is a quick fix to installing XP, just I haven't found it yet

--
Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 2:57:51 PM UTC-6, vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I have a laptop with no OS.. well I messed it up
>
> I tried to reformat with GParted, but it was supsiciously fast. Formatting
> should take forever, right? I'm going to try bootable DOS ISO. Some
> mentioned EasyBCD but it does seem proprietary, and GParted terminal has a
> pretty complete BASH. But then I am thinkig to format FAT16 initially.
>
> It had w7 but moving the partition messed it up and notheing else will load

Win 7 (numerous versions) or x86 and 64 bit compatible, depending on what version
you use. The partition table is setup according to the system processor's core memory
(which is either a 32 bit or a 64 bit configuration, depending upon what the processor
and co-processor can handle and its spec.'s, etc...). I will say if the systems are more than
15-20 years old (at this time), they are probably 32 bit (if they date back to the 90's, then
you're dealing with FAT 16 and FAT 32 [which are usually prior versions of windows that
you can still technically get, but are outmoded now- and not Microsoft supported...]...)

Then the hard drive (and hardware) type have to match up to the processor, as well as the
RAM, the other components, etc... compatibility is key there.
>
> I decided I want to put XP on it, because w7 doesn't like to be moved
>
> I am trying to replicate an old set up (2007 AOpen desktop - won't be able to
> access) where I used GParted and GRUB to triple boot MSDOS 6.22, XP and
> QUantian (Knoppix/Debian)
>
> Laptop and OSes are all old, probably as old as my old set up.
>
> Seems one major issue is IDE Legacy vs UEFI, and MBT vs GPT.
> Apparently old DOS wants to be the first sector.
>

That may be the default setting, but it does not have to be-- things are set up according
to bootability, then boot order of the drives, and where on the drive you want to start
writing-- all in accordance with the capability of the system. I recently did a clean reinstall
of win7 PRO on a new 2 TB micro SATA HDD for a consumer. I used a USB drive to do it.
It had the needed information on there to start the process of loading it without the boot
information. All I had to do was go into "command prompt" mode. The system found the
setup files I needed in the proper subdirectory to begin the process of loading win 7 Pro
(32 bit version) onto the new massive hard drive. I used some MS-DOS commands to
get to where I needed to be, but it allowed me to access the files without using DOS after
that.

By the way, DOS 6.11 was the first DOS program in the 1980's, but it had flaws and some
revisions, by 1987, DOS 6.22 was what became the most common version of software.
DOS was the abbreviation that stood for direct operating system. Sorry for the history
lesson. It is good to know these origins of windows, as the first versions of Windows were
what I referred to as "behind the scenes DOS commands all at once with pretty picture,
graphics, and mouse clicks-- done with each command." That was what made windows
really powerful. Some people remember others saying that the operating system was
"borrowed from Apple" as there was a version the Macintosh had for their machines in
their "System" program- prior to the hard drive coming out. This Microsoft "windows"
version was used for IBM PC, compatible, and clone machines.

These systems really started the way we do computing today. They still follow the same
basic principles when doing software installation, or doing firmware upgrade, software
fixes, or installing drivers, etc... only exception is that you do not have to know the port
settings, drive settings, and the IRQ requests so much any more.

Hope this helps out.

Good luck.

Charles Lucas

On 2023-02-05 15:57, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I have a laptop with no OS.. well I messed it up
>
> I tried to reformat with GParted, but it was supsiciously fast. Formatting
> should take forever, right? I'm going to try bootable DOS ISO. Some
> mentioned EasyBCD but it does seem proprietary, and GParted terminal has a
> pretty complete BASH. But then I am thinkig to format FAT16 initially.
>
> It had w7 but moving the partition messed it up and notheing else will load
>
> I decided I want to put XP on it, because w7 doesn't like to be moved
>
> I am trying to replicate an old set up (2007 AOpen desktop - won't be able to
> access) where I used GParted and GRUB to triple boot MSDOS 6.22, XP and
> QUantian (Knoppix/Debian)
>
> Laptop and OSes are all old, probably as old as my old set up.
>
> Seems one major issue is IDE Legacy vs UEFI, and MBT vs GPT.
> Apparently old DOS wants to be the first sector.
>
>

Yup. Also older Windows versions insisted on everything in the
partition table being aligned on cylinder boundaries, whereas at least
some recent Linices insist on saving a few bytes instead, even when you
format the disk with real Windows and tell Linux to respect the existing
partition table.

I really prefer machines that do as they're damn well told.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 21:08:09 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>On 2023-02-05 15:57, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>> I have a laptop with no OS.. well I messed it up
>>
>> I tried to reformat with GParted, but it was supsiciously fast. Formatting
>> should take forever, right? I'm going to try bootable DOS ISO. Some
>> mentioned EasyBCD but it does seem proprietary, and GParted terminal has a
>> pretty complete BASH. But then I am thinkig to format FAT16 initially.
>>
>> It had w7 but moving the partition messed it up and notheing else will load
>>
>> I decided I want to put XP on it, because w7 doesn't like to be moved
>>
>> I am trying to replicate an old set up (2007 AOpen desktop - won't be able to
>> access) where I used GParted and GRUB to triple boot MSDOS 6.22, XP and
>> QUantian (Knoppix/Debian)
>>
>> Laptop and OSes are all old, probably as old as my old set up.
>>
>> Seems one major issue is IDE Legacy vs UEFI, and MBT vs GPT.
>> Apparently old DOS wants to be the first sector.
>>
>>
>
>Yup. Also older Windows versions insisted on everything in the
>partition table being aligned on cylinder boundaries, whereas at least
>some recent Linices insist on saving a few bytes instead, even when you
>format the disk with real Windows and tell Linux to respect the existing
>partition table.
>
>I really prefer machines that do as they're damn well told.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

What appens to the Windows OSs when Linux gets through with
its partition alterations?

Repairable?

I've had trouble with LXLE in the past. Like to blame it on
something besides my own ignorance.

RL

On 2023-02-09 08:10, legg wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 21:08:09 -0500, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-05 15:57, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>>> I have a laptop with no OS.. well I messed it up
>>>
>>> I tried to reformat with GParted, but it was supsiciously fast. Formatting
>>> should take forever, right? I'm going to try bootable DOS ISO. Some
>>> mentioned EasyBCD but it does seem proprietary, and GParted terminal has a
>>> pretty complete BASH. But then I am thinkig to format FAT16 initially.
>>>
>>> It had w7 but moving the partition messed it up and notheing else will load
>>>
>>> I decided I want to put XP on it, because w7 doesn't like to be moved
>>>
>>> I am trying to replicate an old set up (2007 AOpen desktop - won't be able to
>>> access) where I used GParted and GRUB to triple boot MSDOS 6.22, XP and
>>> QUantian (Knoppix/Debian)
>>>
>>> Laptop and OSes are all old, probably as old as my old set up.
>>>
>>> Seems one major issue is IDE Legacy vs UEFI, and MBT vs GPT.
>>> Apparently old DOS wants to be the first sector.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yup. Also older Windows versions insisted on everything in the
>> partition table being aligned on cylinder boundaries, whereas at least
>> some recent Linices insist on saving a few bytes instead, even when you
>> format the disk with real Windows and tell Linux to respect the existing
>> partition table.
>>
>> I really prefer machines that do as they're damn well told.

> What appens to the Windows OSs when Linux gets through with
> its partition alterations?

Completely scrooched, I imagine--I was trying to install Windows
afterwards, and it puked.

>
> Repairable?
>
> I've had trouble with LXLE in the past. Like to blame it on
> something besides my own ignorance.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com