Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
neutral pins of its outlets.

This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.

Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
internal wiring and line cord.

Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
NA 120V 3pin orientation?

NA regulation socket, outside view.

N L

E

TOP hardware socket, outside view.

L N

E

RL

On 05 Mar 24 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article tdieuil9tgomh0jq6iaoq3595p3h9pnq2b@4ax.com
<legg@nospam.magma.ca> (legg) wrote:

> Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
> my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
> neutral pins of its outlets.

> This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
> no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.

> Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
> each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
> The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
> per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
> internal wiring and line cord.

> Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
> SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified

It depends on the country/connector style.
Germany no polarisation (SCHUKO),
other EU may have some.
Even SCHUKO Style with an aditional round ground (Swiss, Belgica...)
British connectors are very british :]

> as reverse to the
> NA 120V 3pin orientation?

> NA regulation socket, outside view.
> N L
> E

> TOP hardware socket, outside view.

> L N
> E

If you mean 'Kaltgerätestecker',

then look for IEC_60320 C13 female and C14 male.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320

better

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ger%C3%A4testecker

L N
E

So the TOP brand is international correct!

But USA rarely respect international norms :(
imperial vs metric :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets

Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

--
Ich bin in Paraguay lebender Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit) iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

>Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>neutral pins of its outlets.
>
>This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>
>Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>internal wiring and line cord.
>
>Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>
>NA regulation socket, outside view.
>
> N L
>
> E
>
>
>
>TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>
> L N
>
> E
>
>
>RL

An Australian standard GPO (general purpose outlet) viewed from the
front has the pin usage shown in your lower arrangement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112

On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 19:56:00 -0300, "Wolfgang Allinger"
<all2001@spambog.com> wrote:

>
>On 05 Mar 24 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article tdieuil9tgomh0jq6iaoq3595p3h9pnq2b@4ax.com
><legg@nospam.magma.ca> (legg) wrote:
>
>> Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>> my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>> neutral pins of its outlets.
>
>> This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>> no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>
>> Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>> each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>> The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>> per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>> internal wiring and line cord.
>
>> Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>> SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified
>
>It depends on the country/connector style.
>Germany no polarisation (SCHUKO),
>other EU may have some.
>Even SCHUKO Style with an aditional round ground (Swiss, Belgica...)
>British connectors are very british :]
>
>> as reverse to the
>> NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>
>> NA regulation socket, outside view.
>> N L
>> E
>
>
>
>> TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>
>> L N
>> E
>
>If you mean 'Kaltgerätestecker',
>
>then look for IEC_60320 C13 female and C14 male.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320
>
>better
>
>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ger%C3%A4testecker
>
>L N
> E
>
>So the TOP brand is international correct!
>
>But USA rarely respect international norms :(
>imperial vs metric :)
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country
>
>and
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
>Wolfgang

The TOP hardware didn't address 60320 type plugs.

I'm looking for polarization standards in female
unshrouded sockets.

The 60320 is associated with switches and fuses on
both phases, so , polarized or not, the TOP situation
wouldn't present an issue.

RL

On Wed, 06 Mar 2024 19:22:07 +1030, Colin Earl
<colin_e@smartchat.net.au> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>
>>Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>>my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>>neutral pins of its outlets.
>>
>>This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>>no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>>
>>Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>>each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>>The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>>per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>>internal wiring and line cord.
>>
>>Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>>SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>>NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>>
>>NA regulation socket, outside view.
>>
>> N L
>>
>> E
>>
>>
>>
>>TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>>
>> L N
>>
>> E
>>
>>
>>RL
>
>An Australian standard GPO (general purpose outlet) viewed from the
>front has the pin usage shown in your lower arrangement.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112
>

So it does , however this isn't one of the patterns that
the TOP power bar accepts - only rods or vert/horizontal blades.

RL

On Wed, 06 Mar 2024 19:22:07 +1030, Colin Earl
<colin_e@smartchat.net.au> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>
>>Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>>my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>>neutral pins of its outlets.
>>
>>This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>>no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>>
>>Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>>each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>>The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>>per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>>internal wiring and line cord.
>>
>>Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>>SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>>NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>>
>>NA regulation socket, outside view.
>>
>> N L
>>
>> E
>>
>>
>>
>>TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>>
>> L N
>>
>> E
>>
>>
>>RL
>
>An Australian standard GPO (general purpose outlet) viewed from the
>front has the pin usage shown in your lower arrangement.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112
>
I've got an IRAM standard pattern from Argentina, with angled blades
polarization marked opposite to that of the AS/NZS part, but the
TOP power bar doesn't accomodate angled blades.

RL

On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

>Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>neutral pins of its outlets.
>
>This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>
>Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>internal wiring and line cord.
>
>Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>
>NA regulation socket, outside view.
>
> N L
>
> E
>
>
>
>TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>
> L N
>
> E
>
>
I guess I've found the answer in wiring phase for the
BS1363 - a fairly common polarized and grounded socket
used around the British commonwealth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Three_pin_mains_plug_(UK).svg

from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types

This this illustrates a fused plug wiring with live wire corresponding
to the TOP hardware socket's orientation.
(The fuse is sized to protect the cord's wire guage.)

So - multisocket users beware, TOP hardware or otherwise -
a plug may fit, but the phasing may not follow.

RL

On 6 Mar 2024 at 18:00:04 GMT, "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>
>> Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>> my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>> neutral pins of its outlets.
>>
>> This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>> no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>>
>> Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>> each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>> The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>> per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>> internal wiring and line cord.
>>
>> Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>> SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>> NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>>
>> NA regulation socket, outside view.
>>
>> N L
>>
>> E
>>
>>
>>
>> TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>>
>> L N
>>
>> E
>>
>>
> I guess I've found the answer in wiring phase for the
> BS1363 - a fairly common polarized and grounded socket
> used around the British commonwealth.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Three_pin_mains_plug_(UK).svg
>
> from
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types
>
> This this illustrates a fused plug wiring with live wire corresponding
> to the TOP hardware socket's orientation.
> (The fuse is sized to protect the cord's wire guage.)
>
> So - multisocket users beware, TOP hardware or otherwise -
> a plug may fit, but the phasing may not follow.
>
> RL

That socket is pretty well universal on UK 240v equipment, and coincides with
your diagram. What are the kind of sockets that are actually wrongly
connected?

--
Roger Hayter

On 6 Mar 2024 18:27:12 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2024 at 18:00:04 GMT, "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>>> my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>>> neutral pins of its outlets.
>>>
>>> This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>>> no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>>>
>>> Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>>> each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>>> The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>>> per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>>> internal wiring and line cord.
>>>
>>> Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>>> SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>>> NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>>>
>>> NA regulation socket, outside view.
>>>
>>> N L
>>>
>>> E
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>>>
>>> L N
>>>
>>> E
>>>
>>>
>> I guess I've found the answer in wiring phase for the
>> BS1363 - a fairly common polarized and grounded socket
>> used around the British commonwealth.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Three_pin_mains_plug_(UK).svg
>>
>> from
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types
>>
>> This this illustrates a fused plug wiring with live wire corresponding
>> to the TOP hardware socket's orientation.
>> (The fuse is sized to protect the cord's wire guage.)
>>
>> So - multisocket users beware, TOP hardware or otherwise -
>> a plug may fit, but the phasing may not follow.
>>
>> RL
>
>That socket is pretty well universal on UK 240v equipment, and coincides with
>your diagram. What are the kind of sockets that are actually wrongly
>connected?

The LNE orientation of the UK standard (web link pohoto and TOP
sketch) is reverse that of the NA (sketch) standard NEMA 5-15.

Sockets of 'universal' nature don't take this into account.

RL

On 6 Mar 2024 at 21:48:12 GMT, "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

> On 6 Mar 2024 18:27:12 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
>
>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 18:00:04 GMT, "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>>>> my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>>>> neutral pins of its outlets.
>>>>
>>>> This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>>>> no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>>>>
>>>> Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>>>> each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>>>> The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>>>> per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>>>> internal wiring and line cord.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>>>> SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>>>> NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>>>>
>>>> NA regulation socket, outside view.
>>>>
>>>> N L
>>>>
>>>> E
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>>>>
>>>> L N
>>>>
>>>> E
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I guess I've found the answer in wiring phase for the
>>> BS1363 - a fairly common polarized and grounded socket
>>> used around the British commonwealth.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Three_pin_mains_plug_(UK).svg
>>>
>>> from
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types
>>>
>>> This this illustrates a fused plug wiring with live wire corresponding
>>> to the TOP hardware socket's orientation.
>>> (The fuse is sized to protect the cord's wire guage.)
>>>
>>> So - multisocket users beware, TOP hardware or otherwise -
>>> a plug may fit, but the phasing may not follow.
>>>
>>> RL
>>
>> That socket is pretty well universal on UK 240v equipment, and coincides with
>> your diagram. What are the kind of sockets that are actually wrongly
>> connected?
>
> The LNE orientation of the UK standard (web link pohoto and TOP
> sketch) is reverse that of the NA (sketch) standard NEMA 5-15.
>
> Sockets of 'universal' nature don't take this into account.
>
> RL

Could they not do so by putting the appropriate shaped earth pin on the
opposite side? Might have to be wider.

--
Roger Hayter

On 06 Mar 24 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article gesguit74rqiqbttmvej6gh6v927qdu697@4ax.com
<legg@nospam.magma.ca> (legg) wrote:

> The TOP hardware didn't address 60320 type plugs.

> I'm looking for polarization standards in female
> unshrouded sockets.

> The 60320 is associated with switches and fuses on
> both phases, so , polarized or not,

No!

Learn Electrotechnic and to quote.

EOD

Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

--
Ich bin in Paraguay lebender Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit) iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

On 6 Mar 2024 23:59:07 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2024 at 21:48:12 GMT, "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 6 Mar 2024 18:27:12 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 18:00:04 GMT, "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>>>>> my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>>>>> neutral pins of its outlets.
>>>>>
>>>>> This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>>>>> no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>>>>> each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>>>>> The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>>>>> per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>>>>> internal wiring and line cord.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>>>>> SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>>>>> NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>>>>>
>>>>> NA regulation socket, outside view.
>>>>>
>>>>> N L
>>>>>
>>>>> E
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>>>>>
>>>>> L N
>>>>>
>>>>> E
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I guess I've found the answer in wiring phase for the
>>>> BS1363 - a fairly common polarized and grounded socket
>>>> used around the British commonwealth.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Three_pin_mains_plug_(UK).svg
>>>>
>>>> from
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types
>>>>
>>>> This this illustrates a fused plug wiring with live wire corresponding
>>>> to the TOP hardware socket's orientation.
>>>> (The fuse is sized to protect the cord's wire guage.)
>>>>
>>>> So - multisocket users beware, TOP hardware or otherwise -
>>>> a plug may fit, but the phasing may not follow.
>>>>
>>>> RL
>>>
>>> That socket is pretty well universal on UK 240v equipment, and coincides with
>>> your diagram. What are the kind of sockets that are actually wrongly
>>> connected?
>>
>> The LNE orientation of the UK standard (web link pohoto and TOP
>> sketch) is reverse that of the NA (sketch) standard NEMA 5-15.
>>
>> Sockets of 'universal' nature don't take this into account.
>>
>> RL
>
>Could they not do so by putting the appropriate shaped earth pin on the
>opposite side? Might have to be wider.

Woulda, shoulda . . . .

RL

On 6 Mar 2024 23:59:07 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2024 at 21:48:12 GMT, "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 6 Mar 2024 18:27:12 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 18:00:04 GMT, "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:53:19 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Last weekend, I found out that a TOP brand power bar on
>>>>> my bench had been configured with a switched live wire to the
>>>>> neutral pins of its outlets.
>>>>>
>>>>> This power bar has multi-style plug compatibility, with
>>>>> no UL or CSA safety markings. Will accept European, UK, US etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Internally, the plastic extrusion/mold specifically identifies
>>>>> each location ( 'L' , 'N' ) with the reversed phasing.
>>>>> The phasing identity in the wire color coding was correct
>>>>> per IEC brown-live, blue-neutral, grn/yel-earth in the
>>>>> internal wiring and line cord.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a standard 3pin earthed wall plug (Euro UK Asia Oz
>>>>> SA Arg etc) where live/neutral is specified as reverse to the
>>>>> NA 120V 3pin orientation?
>>>>>
>>>>> NA regulation socket, outside view.
>>>>>
>>>>> N L
>>>>>
>>>>> E
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> TOP hardware socket, outside view.
>>>>>
>>>>> L N
>>>>>
>>>>> E
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I guess I've found the answer in wiring phase for the
>>>> BS1363 - a fairly common polarized and grounded socket
>>>> used around the British commonwealth.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Three_pin_mains_plug_(UK).svg
>>>>
>>>> from
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types
>>>>
>>>> This this illustrates a fused plug wiring with live wire corresponding
>>>> to the TOP hardware socket's orientation.
>>>> (The fuse is sized to protect the cord's wire guage.)
>>>>
>>>> So - multisocket users beware, TOP hardware or otherwise -
>>>> a plug may fit, but the phasing may not follow.
>>>>
>>>> RL
>>>
>>> That socket is pretty well universal on UK 240v equipment, and coincides with
>>> your diagram. What are the kind of sockets that are actually wrongly
>>> connected?
>>
>> The LNE orientation of the UK standard (web link pohoto and TOP
>> sketch) is reverse that of the NA (sketch) standard NEMA 5-15.
>>
>> Sockets of 'universal' nature don't take this into account.
>>
>> RL
>
>Could they not do so by putting the appropriate shaped earth pin on the
>opposite side? Might have to be wider.

It would make sense if the socket phasing was the same as the
plug on the cord supplying the power bar. TOP didn't do that.

RL