Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an
hour ago.

Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.

Alain Fournier

On 22/02/2024 20:30 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca>
wrote:
>
> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an
> hour ago.
>
> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>
>
> Alain Fournier

Yeah, I'm axiously awaiting the first pictures of EagleCam.

After serious thinking Alain Fournier wrote :
> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an hour
> ago.
>
> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>
>
> Alain Fournier

Faint signal detected after several minutes, with both ground and robot
systems expected to cycle, perhaps several times.

We're now about an hour into the IM/NASA post-landing news conference.
I've just got onto the stream, and a quick thumbnail scan doesn't seem
to have any imaging from the lander ... I'll rewind and watch more
carefully, but ....

There's a hint where I jumped in that antenna orientation on the lander
is part of the issue.

/dps

--
"What do you think of my cart, Miss Morland? A neat one, is not it?
Well hung: curricle-hung in fact. Come sit by me and we'll test the
springs."
(Speculative fiction by H.Lacedaemonian.)

Snidely scribbled something on Friday the 2/23/2024:
> After serious thinking Alain Fournier wrote :
>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an hour
>> ago.
>>
>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>
> Faint signal detected after several minutes, with both ground and robot
> systems expected to cycle, perhaps several times.
>
> We're now about an hour into the IM/NASA post-landing news conference. I've
> just got onto the stream, and a quick thumbnail scan doesn't seem to have any
> imaging from the lander ... I'll rewind and watch more carefully, but ....
>
> There's a hint where I jumped in that antenna orientation on the lander is
> part of the issue.
>
>
> /dps

News Conf wrapped at 3:20 pst, so just in time for rush hour at JSC.
There appears to be at least one picture that looks to be a fisheye
format.

Odysseus is not expected to survive the lunar night, so 9 days
operation expected.

I'm rewinding now, to get the portions of the stream I missed live.

/dps

--
You could try being nicer and politer
> instead, and see how that works out.
-- Katy Jennison

On Friday, Snidely exclaimed wildly:
> After serious thinking Alain Fournier wrote :
>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an hour
>> ago.
>>
>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>
> Faint signal detected after several minutes, with both ground and robot
> systems expected to cycle, perhaps several times.
>
> We're now about an hour into the IM/NASA post-landing news conference. I've
> just got onto the stream, and a quick thumbnail scan doesn't seem to have any
> imaging from the lander ... I'll rewind and watch more carefully, but ....
>
> There's a hint where I jumped in that antenna orientation on the lander is
> part of the issue.

I've now gone back to the point where they talk about catching a toe
and tipping over and being propped up by a rock. Might affect antenna
aiming.

> /dps

-d

--
"What do you think of my cart, Miss Morland? A neat one, is not it?
Well hung: curricle-hung in fact. Come sit by me and we'll test the
springs."
(Speculative fiction by H.Lacedaemonian.)

Snidely was thinking very hard :
> After serious thinking Alain Fournier wrote :
>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an hour
>> ago.
>>
>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>
> Faint signal detected after several minutes, with both ground and robot
> systems expected to cycle, perhaps several times.
>

While listening to the mission control callouts, I couldn't help but be
happy I had _Sunburst and Luminary_, Don Eyles' memoir of writing LEM
software, including managing the burn and attitude during landing.

I think it was someone here who recommended the book, and I heartily
second it.

/dps

--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013

On 2024-02-23 6:34 p.m., Snidely wrote:
> On Friday, Snidely exclaimed wildly:
>> After serious thinking Alain Fournier wrote :
>>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over
>>> an hour ago.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alain Fournier
>>
>> Faint signal detected after several minutes, with both ground and
>> robot systems expected to cycle, perhaps several times.
>>
>> We're now about an hour into the IM/NASA post-landing news
>> conference.  I've just got onto the stream, and a quick thumbnail scan
>> doesn't seem to have any imaging from the lander ... I'll rewind and
>> watch more carefully, but ....
>>
>> There's a hint where I jumped in that antenna orientation on the
>> lander is part of the issue.
>
> I've now gone back to the point where they talk about catching a toe and
> tipping over and being propped up by a rock.  Might affect antenna aiming.

Japan's SLIM tipped over and now Odysseus. Staying up right on an
unprepared surface is not always that easy. That might be a problem for
SpaceX's Starship HLS. Starship being very tall, that might make it more
prone to tipping over.

Alain Fournier

On 2024-02-24 02:51:12 +0000, Alain Fournier said:

> On 2024-02-23 6:34 p.m., Snidely wrote:
>> On Friday, Snidely exclaimed wildly:
>>> After serious thinking Alain Fournier wrote :
>>>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an
>>>> hour ago.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alain Fournier
>>>
>>> Faint signal detected after several minutes, with both ground and robot
>>> systems expected to cycle, perhaps several times.
>>>
>>> We're now about an hour into the IM/NASA post-landing news conference. 
>>> I've just got onto the stream, and a quick thumbnail scan doesn't seem
>>> to have any imaging from the lander ... I'll rewind and watch more
>>> carefully, but ....
>>>
>>> There's a hint where I jumped in that antenna orientation on the lander
>>> is part of the issue.
>>
>> I've now gone back to the point where they talk about catching a toe
>> and tipping over and being propped up by a rock.  Might affect antenna
>> aiming.
>
> Japan's SLIM tipped over and now Odysseus. Staying up right on an
> unprepared surface is not always that easy. That might be a problem for
> SpaceX's Starship HLS. Starship being very tall, that might make it
> more prone to tipping over.

There should be an immediate return option after touching groud with one
or two feet if the orientation does not stay within tolerances.

--
Mikko

On 23/02/2024 21:51 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2024-02-23 6:34 p.m., Snidely wrote:
>> On Friday, Snidely exclaimed wildly:
>>> After serious thinking Alain Fournier wrote :
>>>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over
>>>> an hour ago.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alain Fournier
>>>
>>> Faint signal detected after several minutes, with both ground and
>>> robot systems expected to cycle, perhaps several times.
>>>
>>> We're now about an hour into the IM/NASA post-landing news
>>> conference.? I've just got onto the stream, and a quick thumbnail scan
>>> doesn't seem to have any imaging from the lander ... I'll rewind and
>>> watch more carefully, but ....
>>>
>>> There's a hint where I jumped in that antenna orientation on the
>>> lander is part of the issue.
>>
>> I've now gone back to the point where they talk about catching a toe and
>> tipping over and being propped up by a rock.? Might affect antenna aiming.
>
> Japan's SLIM tipped over and now Odysseus. Staying up right on an
> unprepared surface is not always that easy. That might be a problem for
> SpaceX's Starship HLS. Starship being very tall, that might make it more
> prone to tipping over.
>
>
> Alain Fournier
>
>

Somewhat disappointing that they couldn't stick the landing, despite having a functional LIDAR and Obstacle Avoidance System.

They couldn't measure the horizontal speed for some reason? Or attitude (this could explain the horizontal speed component)?

On 2024-02-24 13:44, The Running Man wrote:
> On 23/02/2024 21:51 Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-23 6:34 p.m., Snidely wrote:
>>> On Friday, Snidely exclaimed wildly:
>>>> After serious thinking Alain Fournier wrote :
>>>>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over
>>>>> an hour ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alain Fournier
>>>>
>>>> Faint signal detected after several minutes, with both ground and
>>>> robot systems expected to cycle, perhaps several times.
>>>>
>>>> We're now about an hour into the IM/NASA post-landing news
>>>> conference.? I've just got onto the stream, and a quick thumbnail scan
>>>> doesn't seem to have any imaging from the lander ... I'll rewind and
>>>> watch more carefully, but ....
>>>>
>>>> There's a hint where I jumped in that antenna orientation on the
>>>> lander is part of the issue.
>>>
>>> I've now gone back to the point where they talk about catching a toe and
>>> tipping over and being propped up by a rock.? Might affect antenna aiming.
>>
>> Japan's SLIM tipped over and now Odysseus.

It seems that SLIM tipped over because one of its two descent engines
broke apart during descent, leaving the lander unbalanced and apparently
making it gain horizontal velocity.

>> Staying up right on an
>> unprepared surface is not always that easy. That might be a problem for
>> SpaceX's Starship HLS. Starship being very tall, that might make it more
>> prone to tipping over.

Yes. However, Lunar Starship seems to have a multitude of descent
engines, likely giving it significant redundancy against a SLIM-type
failure.

> Somewhat disappointing that they couldn't stick the landing, despite
> having a functional LIDAR and Obstacle Avoidance System.

Someone at Intuitive Machines forgot to enable the IM LIDAR lasers
before launch, so they had to improvise and patch the SW quickly (in
lunar orbit) to use the NASA experimental descent LIDARs instead. Those
are mounted in a different location on the craft and have different
lines of sight, so require different geometrical computations. Possibly
the SW patch was not perfect in this regard. The descent velocity at
landing was a few times larger than intended.

> They couldn't measure the horizontal speed for some reason? Or
> attitude (this could explain the horizontal speed component)?

AIUI the horizontal speed was measured by down-looking cameras using
some kind of "optical flow" algorithm. If the descent engine kicks up a
lot of dust, it seems likely that the flow of dust might severely
interfere with that optical measurement. If this measurement and control
loop was continued to the very moment of touch-down this could lead to a
spurious horizontal velocity. Indeed IM said at the NASA/IM news
conference that the horizontal velocity at landing was about walking
speed. This is not healthy for a tall vehicle (and I was surprised that
there was not more discussion of this point in the conference).

Lunar Starship has its descent engines mounted high up on the ship and
their jets slanted outward. This should reduce the dust flow below the
ship. And of course we don't know how SpaceX plans to navigate the landing.

Thursday, Alain Fournier quipped:
> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an hour
> ago.
>
> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>
>
> Alain Fournier

Things improved once the team understood the situation.

Eric Berger has an update article on Ars Technica, and picture(s)
release is expected Wednesday morning. The lander will probably have
dropped out of the loop by then (or even before now), with the big
radio running down the available power -- only batteries and 1 solar
panel.

/dps

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?

Just this Tuesday, Snidely puzzled about:
> Thursday, Alain Fournier quipped:
>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an hour
>> ago.
>>
>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>
>>
>> Alain Fournier
>
> Things improved once the team understood the situation.
>
> Eric Berger has an update article on Ars Technica, and picture(s) release is
> expected Wednesday morning. The lander will probably have dropped out of the
> loop by then (or even before now), with the big radio running down the
> available power -- only batteries and 1 solar panel.
>
> /dps

See the presser at
<URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa2n2-_hLPM>

/dps

--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm

Snidely used thar keyboard to writen:
> Just this Tuesday, Snidely puzzled about:
>> Thursday, Alain Fournier quipped:
>>> Intuitive Machines had a lander touchdown on the moon a little over an
>>> hour ago.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately communications with the spacecraft seem to be iffy.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alain Fournier
>>
>> Things improved once the team understood the situation.
>>
>> Eric Berger has an update article on Ars Technica, and picture(s) release
>> is expected Wednesday morning. The lander will probably have dropped out
>> of the loop by then (or even before now), with the big radio running down
>> the available power -- only batteries and 1 solar panel.
>>
>> /dps
>
> See the presser at
> <URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa2n2-_hLPM>
>
> /dps

(it appears that the NDL patch missed one bit)

-d

--
potstickers, Japanese gyoza, Chinese dumplings, let's do it