"Snag" wrote in message news:u8sqfi$5phg$1@dont-email.me...

We could have paid cash for a newer car , I just didn't like the
local offerings . Newer stuff has way too much electronics for my taste
- especially stuff like onstar and other tracking stuff .
Snag

---------------------------

https://www.sae.org/news/2022/07/automotive-electronics-reliability-aug-ae-editorial

Lead-free solder and removing the preservatives from electrolytics, etc,
degraded the high reliability electronics previously enjoyed. When
electronics were added to control emissions and improve MPG in the mid 70's
I worked for a company that built custom industrial test stations and won a
significant part of the automotive market, for the HEI ignition, antilock
brakes, fuel injection, knock sensing octane compensation and more accurate
voltage regulators. At the time a device was considered likely to fail
quickly if subjected to the artificial ageing stresses of temperature
cycling, or last forever as long as the individual components passed their
factory parametric testing, in which I was involved later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_test_equipment
The tests were quite demanding, similar to starting a snowplow in Alaska and
immediately working it hard.

Now that ROHS (Reduction of Hazardous Substances) has banned the long-proven
optimal chemistry of materials, failures can occur at any time in the
product's life. Significantly the restrictions have been waived where the
higher chance of failure risks human life.
https://www.getenviropass.com/rohs-exemption/

Testing showed me that electronic components from Radio Shack and now Amazon
often don't meet all their claimed specifications, such as resistance value
or high voltage breakdown. A batch of gas discharge surge suppressors had a
hole at the stated voltage value +/- the tolerance, they were all either too
high or too low, though still useful for me. Bogus parts have been a
headache in aviation, they haven't attracted as much publicity in
electronics.
https://thecrimereport.org/2017/09/20/faa-warned-boeing-777-737-ntsb-airplane-parts-china/
https://www.macrofab.com/blog/electronics-industry-counterfeit-parts-problem/
A common example is 18650 Lithium cells with a smaller and cheaper cell
hidden inside, and ballast to conceal the weight difference.

Since I can proof test for strength and don't need to rush a job I've saved
a lot by purchasing discounted chain for logging that was intended for but
didn't meet transport chain test specs.

On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 19:49:56 -0500
Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

<snip>
>We could have paid cash for a newer car , I just didn't like the
>local offerings . Newer stuff has way too much electronics for my taste
>- especially stuff like onstar and other tracking stuff .

I pulled the fuses for OnStar in my used 2013 Impala shortly after
getting it. Has been a few articles that older vehicles like mine
were losing it anyway due to 3G cellular shutting down. For instance:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39301678/3g-internet-sunset-cars/

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u8u4s9$ctq3$1@dont-email.me...

On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 19:49:56 -0500
Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

<snip>
>We could have paid cash for a newer car , I just didn't like the
>local offerings . Newer stuff has way too much electronics for my taste
>- especially stuff like onstar and other tracking stuff .

I pulled the fuses for OnStar in my used 2013 Impala shortly after
getting it. Has been a few articles that older vehicles like mine
were losing it anyway due to 3G cellular shutting down. For instance:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39301678/3g-internet-sunset-cars/
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

-------------

4G LTE support allegedly will continue at least to 2030.
https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/2g-3g-4g-lte-network-shutdown-updates

On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 09:41:14 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u8u4s9$ctq3$1@dont-email.me...
>
>On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 19:49:56 -0500
>Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>We could have paid cash for a newer car , I just didn't like the
>>local offerings . Newer stuff has way too much electronics for my taste
>>- especially stuff like onstar and other tracking stuff .
>
>I pulled the fuses for OnStar in my used 2013 Impala shortly after
>getting it. Has been a few articles that older vehicles like mine
>were losing it anyway due to 3G cellular shutting down. For instance:
>
>https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39301678/3g-internet-sunset-cars/
>Leon Fisk
>Grand Rapids MI
>
>-------------
>
>4G LTE support allegedly will continue at least to 2030.
>https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/2g-3g-4g-lte-network-shutdown-updates
>

My Electric company was using 3G to read their meters too. The new
meter with remote read was only in place for maybe 8 years. Just got
the new to replace the old new ~two months ago. They've been scrambling
since 3G went dark in January to replace or upgrade. Seems they
couldn't source new meters due to parts shortages... 🙄

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On 7/15/2023 5:53 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 19:49:56 -0500
> Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> We could have paid cash for a newer car , I just didn't like the
>> local offerings . Newer stuff has way too much electronics for my taste
>> - especially stuff like onstar and other tracking stuff .
>
> I pulled the fuses for OnStar in my used 2013 Impala shortly after
> getting it. Has been a few articles that older vehicles like mine
> were losing it anyway due to 3G cellular shutting down. For instance:
>
> https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39301678/3g-internet-sunset-cars/
>

I do not know if they are still available, but there used to be an
aftermarket replacement unit for the early Onstar radio modules that
would integrate your in vehicle mic/speaker/radio management with your
cell phone. I debated using one for the onstar in my 2007 Silverado,
but even when I had Onstar service I never used it.

I do not know at what level the data is stored these days, but the
onboard computer of newer modern vehicles has some black box like
telemetry storage. I read some casual big brother articles on it and
the NHTSA requirements some time back, but I never really got into it.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u8ug6l$e5rg$1@dont-email.me...

I do not know at what level the data is stored these days, but the
onboard computer of newer modern vehicles has some black box like
telemetry storage. I read some casual big brother articles on it and
the NHTSA requirements some time back, but I never really got into it.

Bob La Londe

---------------------

At least 10 and perhaps 20 years ago a former mechanic told me a story about
a warranty claim denial based on stored data. I didn't hear or don't clearly
remember the make or year of the vehicle, it may have been a GM in the 90's.

The claim was for a broken transmission on a car the owner said was a lemon.
The mechanic downloaded data proving the owner had shifted into reverse at
over 120 MPH to intentionally destroy it.

The CAN Bus that enabled and standardized 2-wire communications between
automotive electronic modules was introduced around 1990.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

GM introduced their proprietary "Computer Command Control" data transmission
and storage in 1981. OBD-II diagnostic code data collection has been
mandatory since 1996.

Memory chips that can retain data with only a tiny keep-alive power drain
have been available since the early 80's. I incorporated some into my
homebrew computer around 1983 to allow it to save its operating state when
power was off, like Sleep or Hibernation but faster since it wasn't on disk.

On 7/15/2023 9:59 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u8ug6l$e5rg$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I do not know at what level the data is stored these days, but the
> onboard computer of newer modern vehicles has some black box like
> telemetry storage.  I read some casual big brother articles on it and
> the NHTSA requirements some time back, but I never really got into it.
>
> Bob La Londe
>
> ---------------------
>
> At least 10 and perhaps 20 years ago a former mechanic told me a story
> about a warranty claim denial based on stored data. I didn't hear or
> don't clearly remember the make or year of the vehicle, it may have been
> a GM in the 90's.
>
> The claim was for a broken transmission on a car the owner said was a
> lemon. The mechanic downloaded data proving the owner had shifted into
> reverse at over 120 MPH to intentionally destroy it.
>
> The CAN Bus that enabled and standardized 2-wire communications between
> automotive electronic modules was introduced around 1990.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus
>
> GM introduced their proprietary "Computer Command Control" data
> transmission and storage in 1981. OBD-II diagnostic code data collection
> has been mandatory since 1996.
>
> Memory chips that can retain data with only a tiny keep-alive power
> drain have been available since the early 80's. I incorporated some into
> my homebrew computer around 1983 to allow it to save its operating state
> when power was off, like Sleep or Hibernation but faster since it wasn't
> on disk.
>

My father in law was a principal exec (and an engineer) at General
Motors Hydramatic. One of the thing he did there was setup the M16A1
manufacturing line. Anyway, one day we argued about manual vs
automatics, and he claimed that automatics were more reliable and lasted
longer than manual transmissions, BUT shifting from forward to reverse
or reverse to forward without coming to a full stop would kill them more
quickly.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 09:06:45 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>
>I do not know if they are still available, but there used to be an
>aftermarket replacement unit for the early Onstar radio modules that
>would integrate your in vehicle mic/speaker/radio management with your
>cell phone. I debated using one for the onstar in my 2007 Silverado,
>but even when I had Onstar service I never used it.

The owner ahead of me had a JVC KW-V250BT Radio, Monitor with DVD
Receiver installed, replacing the factory unit. Lost the controls on
the steering wheel and clock but they gained Bluetooth hands-free
integration with their cell phone. Seems they had an iPhone, it still
shows one in the programming setup. Separate microphone mounted next
to the sun visor.

I average receiving maybe one phone call a month. Haven't bothered to
set it up with my phone...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

In <u8u1rt$cnc6$1@dont-email.me> "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

[snip]

>Now that ROHS (Reduction of Hazardous Substances) has banned the long-proven
>optimal chemistry of materials, failures can occur at any time in the
>product's life. Significantly the restrictions have been waived where the
>higher chance of failure risks human life.
>https://www.getenviropass.com/rohs-exemption/

reminds me of NYC Electrical Code in the 1975ish Rules.
They had a hefty book which expanded greatly on the
more common NEC, with lots of tighter rules. FOr example,
just about no use of what's generally called Romex but
instead, metal conduits.

Anyway, I recall the table for different cable insulations
such as rubber and the various plastics. There was an
entry for Asbestos Sheathed, with the notation it was
NOT to be used in any location except...

... except ... as a "traveling elevator" cable...

(super high risk environment...)

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]