Whenever I scrap a piece of equipment or appliance with pulleys I save
them. I still never have the exact pulley I need for something. Well
until today.

If I am running three or more CNC mills in the shop I still will
occasionally get a thermal shutdown on the compressor motor. I decided
to just try a smaller motor pulley. I dropped from 6 inch to 4 inch.
Of course I didn't have one that would fit, but I did have one with a
smaller shaft size and no key way. I also have a lathe, reamers, and a
set of key way broaches.

I guess I did have the right pulley hanging on the wall after all.

I realize the compressor will run for longer now, but maybe the lighter
load on the motor will let it run cooler do its job without tripping
off. Its also considerably quieter standing next to the compressor when
its running. That's a big plus. I'll probably still jump when I'm
working at the back bench and it turns on.

I did have a five inch, but its easier to bore out a hole than to sleeve
a hole. Particularly when you should be running a key. If it runs to
much I'll order a five inch and try that.

P.S. As the weather has cooled off (high of 70F today) the motor has not
tripped off as often, but it did trip off the other day when I had four
machines running and using air for air seals, tool changes, etc.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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On 11/11/2023 2:55 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

>
> P.S. As the weather has cooled off (high of 70F today) the motor has not
> tripped off as often, but it did trip off the other day when I had four
> machines running and using air for air seals, tool changes, etc.
>

Hey Bob,

Bringing back some very past memories. I was a Maintenance Supervisor
at a Plastic Extrusion Company for 14 years. Don't know if this will
help or not but on the Compressed Air issue we had 2 compressors that
ran 24/7 with one as a backup. When one went down or due for some
service the backup unit was powered up. As production increased
the challenge was getting enough air for all. These compressors were
feeding into a direct line to production. NO Surge Tank!!

I took it on as "MY" engineering project and ran all the numbers which
included a 800 Gallon Surge Tank on a concrete pad outside the
compressor room. Also included 3" bypass valves and all piping and
air regulator.

I calculated the total cost at the time to be about $3,000. I presented
my proposal to my boss who was the Executive VP of Engineering and he
was a bit overwhelmed and wanted to know how I got all my numbers.

My numbers included the power cost of running each compressor 24/7.
I rented a GE or Fluke 3 Phase Power Analyzer and processed the
KW cost to get the usage numbers. He said he would look at the
proposal and let me know. BTW the project at $3,000. would have
paid for itself in about 2-3 months. It took him 3 months to
get back to me with an OK to proceed. &^%$&*%$*&(&(UY%%*

I ordered the 800 gallon tank and started the prep work on the
concrete pad, got it poured and actually placed a PVC Time
Capsule in the pad with some stuff of the day and a letter signed
by the day shift employees. I really don't know if it has been
broken into at this point in time, it was maybe 35+ years ago.

Did all the piping and connected the compressors and opened the
main valve. Once the tank was at full pressure and the air
regulator was set to needed pressure to production the compressors
started to cycle on/off. Sometimes off for maybe 5 minutes or
more. Once the plant was in full production I figured that the
the compressor run time was cut by 40-50%. 🙂

Anyhow, all the above to say that if you can increase the size of
your air surge tank, (if you have one) you would be pleased with
the results and your compressor will run even better.

I hope that the above story was a good read.

Also, it brought back some good memories of another LIFE!!

Have a good week!!

Les

On 11/12/2023 3:29 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
> On 11/11/2023 2:55 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>
>>
>> P.S. As the weather has cooled off (high of 70F today) the motor has
>> not tripped off as often, but it did trip off the other day when I had
>> four machines running and using air for air seals, tool changes, etc.
>>
>
>
> Hey Bob,
>
> Bringing back some very past memories.  I was a Maintenance Supervisor
> at a Plastic Extrusion Company for 14 years.  Don't know if this will
> help or not but on the Compressed Air issue we had 2 compressors that
> ran 24/7 with one as a backup.  When one went down or due for some
> service the backup unit was powered up.  As production increased
> the challenge was getting enough air for all.  These compressors were
> feeding into a direct line to production.  NO Surge Tank!!
>
> I took it on as "MY" engineering project and ran all the numbers which
> included a 800 Gallon Surge Tank on a concrete pad outside the
> compressor room.  Also included 3" bypass valves and all piping and
> air regulator.
>
> I calculated the total cost at the time to be about $3,000.  I presented
> my proposal to my boss who was the Executive VP of Engineering and he
> was a bit overwhelmed and wanted to know how I got all my numbers.
>
> My numbers included the power cost of running each compressor 24/7.
> I rented a GE or Fluke 3 Phase Power Analyzer and processed the
> KW cost to get the usage numbers.  He said he would look at the
> proposal and let me know.  BTW the project at $3,000. would have
> paid for itself in about 2-3 months.  It took him 3 months to
> get back to me with an OK to proceed.  &^%$&*%$*&(&(UY%%*
>
> I ordered the 800 gallon tank and started the prep work on the
> concrete pad, got it poured and actually placed a PVC Time
> Capsule in the pad with some stuff of the day and a letter signed
> by the day shift employees.  I really don't know if it has been
> broken into at this point in time, it was maybe 35+ years ago.
>
> Did all the piping and connected the compressors and opened the
> main valve.  Once the tank was at full pressure and the air
> regulator was set to needed pressure to production the compressors
> started to cycle on/off.  Sometimes off for maybe 5 minutes or
> more.  Once the plant was in full production I figured that the
> the compressor run time was cut by 40-50%.  🙂
>
> Anyhow, all the above to say that if you can increase the size of
> your air surge tank, (if you have one) you would be pleased with
> the results and your compressor will run even better.
>
> I hope that the above story was a good read.
>
> Also, it brought back some good memories of another LIFE!!
>
> Have a good week!!
>
> Les
>
>
>
>

Makes me wish I hadn't turned the tank from my old compressor into a
giant hibachi.

Hi Les, How is retirement treating you? If you are getting bored I have
an unused camper out back of the shop, and I could sure use somebody to
shovel up chips part time. LOL.

I was running three machines for several hours today, and I didn't
notice the compressor kick on more often than normal. Two of those
machines use air seal spindles. From inside my office I didn't notice
it kick on at all (quieter I guess). Several times I walked back to
check the high pressure on the tank to make sure it had been kicking on.
It visually and audibly starts easier, and it has not tripped the
motor thermal even once.

Oh, just heard it kick on, and noticed the back door of my office is
open to the shop floor.

I wonder if in the interest of pushing theoretical CFM for the marketing
department they didn't overload that motor with a to large motor pulley
from the factory. I kinda wish I'd pointed my laser tachometer at the
old pulley before I swapped it out now.

.... and it just kicked off. Now I'm not running max air consumption so
time off is no indicator, but on time just now didn't seem a lot longer
than normal. Maybe not at all. I guess I'll have to wait for a day
when I am running all three machines with air seals and see what
happens. I don't think the 33% reduction in capacity (by the numbers) is
that bad in practice. It might be worth it in motor/compressor life. I
probably won't be able to run air cooling on a steel cutting job, and
all the air sealed high speed spindle machines at the same time. I do
have a couple other smaller compressors I could press into service, but
I wouldn't be able to run them through the air dryer.

Anyway...
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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On 11/12/2023 6:02 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 3:29 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>> On 11/11/2023 2:55 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> P.S. As the weather has cooled off (high of 70F today) the motor has
>>> not tripped off as often, but it did trip off the other day when I
>>> had four machines running and using air for air seals, tool changes,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Bob,
>>
>> Bringing back some very past memories.  I was a Maintenance Supervisor
>> at a Plastic Extrusion Company for 14 years.  Don't know if this will
>> help or not but on the Compressed Air issue we had 2 compressors that
>> ran 24/7 with one as a backup.  When one went down or due for some
>> service the backup unit was powered up.  As production increased
>> the challenge was getting enough air for all.  These compressors were
>> feeding into a direct line to production.  NO Surge Tank!!
>>
>> I took it on as "MY" engineering project and ran all the numbers which
>> included a 800 Gallon Surge Tank on a concrete pad outside the
>> compressor room.  Also included 3" bypass valves and all piping and
>> air regulator.
>>
>> I calculated the total cost at the time to be about $3,000.  I presented
>> my proposal to my boss who was the Executive VP of Engineering and he
>> was a bit overwhelmed and wanted to know how I got all my numbers.
>>
>> My numbers included the power cost of running each compressor 24/7.
>> I rented a GE or Fluke 3 Phase Power Analyzer and processed the
>> KW cost to get the usage numbers.  He said he would look at the
>> proposal and let me know.  BTW the project at $3,000. would have
>> paid for itself in about 2-3 months.  It took him 3 months to
>> get back to me with an OK to proceed.  &^%$&*%$*&(&(UY%%*
>>
>> I ordered the 800 gallon tank and started the prep work on the
>> concrete pad, got it poured and actually placed a PVC Time
>> Capsule in the pad with some stuff of the day and a letter signed
>> by the day shift employees.  I really don't know if it has been
>> broken into at this point in time, it was maybe 35+ years ago.
>>
>> Did all the piping and connected the compressors and opened the
>> main valve.  Once the tank was at full pressure and the air
>> regulator was set to needed pressure to production the compressors
>> started to cycle on/off.  Sometimes off for maybe 5 minutes or
>> more.  Once the plant was in full production I figured that the
>> the compressor run time was cut by 40-50%.  🙂
>>
>> Anyhow, all the above to say that if you can increase the size of
>> your air surge tank, (if you have one) you would be pleased with
>> the results and your compressor will run even better.
>>
>> I hope that the above story was a good read.
>>
>> Also, it brought back some good memories of another LIFE!!
>>
>> Have a good week!!
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Makes me wish I hadn't turned the tank from my old compressor into a
> giant hibachi.
>
> Hi Les, How is retirement treating you?  If you are getting bored I have
> an unused camper out back of the shop, and I could sure use somebody to
> shovel up chips part time.  LOL.
>
> I was running three machines for several hours today, and I didn't
> notice the compressor kick on more often than normal.  Two of those
> machines use air seal spindles.  From inside my office I didn't notice
> it kick on at all (quieter I guess).  Several times I walked back to
> check the high pressure on the tank to make sure it had been kicking on.
>  It visually and audibly starts easier, and it has not tripped the
> motor thermal even once.
>
> Oh, just heard it kick on, and noticed the back door of my office is
> open to the shop floor.
>
> I wonder if in the interest of pushing theoretical CFM for the marketing
> department they didn't overload that motor with a to large motor pulley
> from the factory.  I kinda wish I'd pointed my laser tachometer at the
> old pulley before I swapped it out now.
>
> ... and it just kicked off.  Now I'm not running max air consumption so
> time off is no indicator, but on time just now didn't seem a lot longer
> than normal.  Maybe not at all.  I guess I'll have to wait for a day
> when I am running all three machines with air seals and see what
> happens. I don't think the 33% reduction in capacity (by the numbers) is
> that bad in practice.  It might be worth it in motor/compressor life.  I
> probably won't be able to run air cooling on a steel cutting job, and
> all the air sealed high speed spindle machines at the same time.  I do
> have a couple other smaller compressors I could press into service, but
> I wouldn't be able to run them through the air dryer.
>
> Anyway...

Bob,
As for the retirement word........... Does not exist......... I QUIT!!
However, every day is a SATURDAY!! (almost) Some days it flips!!!

As for the camper... well thanks for the offer.... but no, thanks!! 🙂

As for your compressed air challenge, it seems to me you need to work
on a better plan!! From 2,000 miles away it will be hard for me to
help. This might help you start to do the thinking process!! LOL
https://www.compressedairsystems.com/air-receiver-tanks/

Although, I kinda miss that part of my history.
Working on machines, and stuff!! etc. etc.

We had a pair of cooling fans (32" Diameter) that needed to be placed in
the compressor room. I designed a bracket frame out of 2"x2"x1/8 steel
angle with a support bracket to be mounted on the wall of the room.
The room was about 20'x20' with a ceiling/roof at about 30 feet.
That is when I actually learned (taught myself) how to stick weld.
The welds looked horrible!! But, the cooling fans are still mounted
on the wall today. That was maybe 45 years ago. Yea!!

Again a lot of memories!!

Later,

Les

On 11/12/2023 5:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
> As for the retirement word........... Does not exist......... I QUIT!!
> However, every day is a SATURDAY!!  (almost)  Some days it flips!!!
>
> As for the camper... well thanks for the offer.... but no, thanks!! 🙂
>
> As for your compressed air challenge, it seems to me you need to work
> on a better plan!!  From 2,000 miles away it will be hard for me to
> help.  This might help you start to do the thinking process!!  LOL
> https://www.compressedairsystems.com/air-receiver-tanks/
>
> Although, I kinda miss that part of my history.
> Working on machines, and stuff!! etc. etc.
>
> We had a pair of cooling fans (32" Diameter) that needed to be placed in
> the compressor room.  I designed a bracket frame out of 2"x2"x1/8 steel
> angle with a support bracket to be mounted on the wall of the room.
> The room was about 20'x20' with a ceiling/roof at about 30 feet.
> That is when I actually learned (taught myself) how to stick weld.
> The welds looked horrible!!  But, the cooling fans are still mounted
> on the wall today.  That was maybe 45 years ago.  Yea!!
>
> Again a lot of memories!!
>
> Later,

Its funny. I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in the
shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175. It
carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was also
running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel. I hate to say it
but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine. Fuck Ingersol
Rand. The only reason I bought it was because the motor smoked on the
Kobalt on a Sunday morning and I thought (MISTAKENLY) that the bigger IR
I could buy on a Sunday would do a better job. I'm not sure if I said
this yet, but FUCK INGERSOL RAND. Ordinarily I would have just slapped
a new motor on the Kobalt. I should have bought another Kobalt instead.
FUCK INGERSOL RAND!!! Not that I am bitter or anything.

Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better. I had to work on it all the
time. Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch, etc,
but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 11/12/2023 7:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 5:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>> As for the retirement word........... Does not exist......... I QUIT!!
>> However, every day is a SATURDAY!!  (almost)  Some days it flips!!!
>>
>> As for the camper... well thanks for the offer.... but no, thanks!! 🙂
>>
>> As for your compressed air challenge, it seems to me you need to work
>> on a better plan!!  From 2,000 miles away it will be hard for me to
>> help.  This might help you start to do the thinking process!!  LOL
>> https://www.compressedairsystems.com/air-receiver-tanks/
>>
>> Although, I kinda miss that part of my history.
>> Working on machines, and stuff!! etc. etc.
>>
>> We had a pair of cooling fans (32" Diameter) that needed to be placed in
>> the compressor room.  I designed a bracket frame out of 2"x2"x1/8 steel
>> angle with a support bracket to be mounted on the wall of the room.
>> The room was about 20'x20' with a ceiling/roof at about 30 feet.
>> That is when I actually learned (taught myself) how to stick weld.
>> The welds looked horrible!!  But, the cooling fans are still mounted
>> on the wall today.  That was maybe 45 years ago.  Yea!!
>>
>> Again a lot of memories!!
>>
>> Later,
>
> Its funny.  I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in the
> shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175.  It
> carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was also
> running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel.  I hate to say it
> but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine. Fuck Ingersol
> Rand.  The only reason I bought it was because the motor smoked on the
> Kobalt on a Sunday morning and I thought (MISTAKENLY) that the bigger IR
> I could buy on a Sunday would do a better job.  I'm not sure if I said
> this yet, but FUCK INGERSOL RAND.  Ordinarily I would have just slapped
> a new motor on the Kobalt.  I should have bought another Kobalt instead.
>  FUCK INGERSOL RAND!!!  Not that I am bitter or anything.
>
> Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better.  I had to work on it all the
> time.  Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch, etc,
> but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.
>
>
Bob,

Well it has been a l-o-n-g time but I seem to remember that we had
2 rotary screw compressors and the back up was a two piston unit.
I think the one rotary screw was a 200HP Sullair and the other was a
Ingersol Rand. All were 3 phase machines. From your description of
what you have in comparison, yours are bit of toys!! LOL

From what you have typed compressed air is a vital part of your
shop and needs a serious amount of attention.

Don't take this the wrong way but "cheap" is not always the best
solution!! But, then I guess you know that!!

Hope you have a good week!!

Les

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uirr6q$9sd1$1@dont-email.me...

Its funny. I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in the
shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175. It
carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was also
running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel. I hate to say it
but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine.
....
Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better. I had to work on it all the
time. Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch, etc,
but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.

Bob La Londe

------------------------------

I have the equivalent 3.7HP 80 gallon Husky from Home Depot, bought cheap
because it apparently had fallen over. The pump was gone and perhaps the
pressure switch, I don't remember. I installed an HF air pump and rearranged
the plumbing and wiring from my parts collection to my taste, to monitor and
adjust performance. The Wattmeter showed higher than nameplate motor current
above ~100PSI so I changed to a 4" pulley which brought it down to 13 -
14A. I didn't have a 4-1/2" or 5" to try. The motor stayed cool the few
times I've run it continuously.

I added a 240V 20A outlet so the $16 PZEM-061 Wattmeter can also show the
current and power drawn by external loads when I'm experimenting, like a
Kill-A-Watt for 240V. With CNC milling the opening in an electrical box
cover to snap in the meter display should be easier than on my antique
manual mill.

On 11/13/2023 6:11 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:uirr6q$9sd1$1@dont-email.me...
>
> Its funny.  I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in the
> shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175.  It
> carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was also
> running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel.  I hate to say it
> but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine.
> ...
> Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better.  I had to work on it all the
> time.  Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch, etc,
> but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.
>
> Bob La Londe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> I have the equivalent 3.7HP 80 gallon Husky from Home Depot, bought
> cheap because it apparently had fallen over. The pump was gone and
> perhaps the pressure switch, I don't remember. I installed an HF air
> pump

I can say I really like the Harbor Freight "repair/replacement" pump. I
have one on my roll around and another on the shelf. I have a spare 5HP
motor on the shelf now too. I guess next I should order a backup
pressure switch from McMaster. I already have spare intank check
valves. I think like their electric motors its better than the pumps
that actually come on the compressors they currently sell.

The Smith & Jones farm duty motors are pretty decent. They just don't
sell one big enough for my air compressor.

and rearranged the plumbing and wiring from my parts collection to
> my taste, to monitor and adjust performance. The Wattmeter showed higher
> than nameplate motor current above ~100PSI so I changed to a 4" pulley
> which brought it down to 13 - 14A. I didn't have a 4-1/2" or 5" to try.
> The motor stayed cool the few times I've run it continuously.
>
> I added a 240V 20A outlet so the $16 PZEM-061 Wattmeter can also show
> the current and power drawn by external loads when I'm experimenting,
> like a Kill-A-Watt for 240V. With CNC milling the opening in an
> electrical box cover to snap in the meter display should be easier than
> on my antique manual mill.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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On 11/12/2023 6:26 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 7:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 5:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>>> As for the retirement word........... Does not exist......... I QUIT!!
>>> However, every day is a SATURDAY!!  (almost)  Some days it flips!!!
>>>
>>> As for the camper... well thanks for the offer.... but no, thanks!! 🙂
>>>
>>> As for your compressed air challenge, it seems to me you need to work
>>> on a better plan!!  From 2,000 miles away it will be hard for me to
>>> help.  This might help you start to do the thinking process!!  LOL
>>> https://www.compressedairsystems.com/air-receiver-tanks/
>>>
>>> Although, I kinda miss that part of my history.
>>> Working on machines, and stuff!! etc. etc.
>>>
>>> We had a pair of cooling fans (32" Diameter) that needed to be placed in
>>> the compressor room.  I designed a bracket frame out of 2"x2"x1/8 steel
>>> angle with a support bracket to be mounted on the wall of the room.
>>> The room was about 20'x20' with a ceiling/roof at about 30 feet.
>>> That is when I actually learned (taught myself) how to stick weld.
>>> The welds looked horrible!!  But, the cooling fans are still mounted
>>> on the wall today.  That was maybe 45 years ago.  Yea!!
>>>
>>> Again a lot of memories!!
>>>
>>> Later,
>>
>> Its funny.  I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in the
>> shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175.  It
>> carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was also
>> running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel.  I hate to say it
>> but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine. Fuck Ingersol
>> Rand.  The only reason I bought it was because the motor smoked on the
>> Kobalt on a Sunday morning and I thought (MISTAKENLY) that the bigger
>> IR I could buy on a Sunday would do a better job.  I'm not sure if I
>> said this yet, but FUCK INGERSOL RAND.  Ordinarily I would have just
>> slapped a new motor on the Kobalt.  I should have bought another
>> Kobalt instead.   FUCK INGERSOL RAND!!!  Not that I am bitter or
>> anything.
>>
>> Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better.  I had to work on it all the
>> time.  Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch, etc,
>> but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.
>>
>>

>
> Don't take this the wrong way but "cheap" is not always the best
> solution!!
>
>

How can I help but take it the wrong way. Or maybe its not the wrong
way. So:

"If I can't afford $43K for a 100HP 460 Volt 3 Phase Quincy scroll
compressor and another $43K for a backup, I shouldn't be allowed to have
an air compressor at all?"

"Since I can't afford a hundred grand to bring 460V 3phase into my shop
I shouldn't be allowed to have electricity?"

"If I can't afford $320K-$380K for a tricked out Haas VM-6 I shouldn't
be allowed to own a milling machine?"

"I should tell all my customers I refuse to do all those small jobs from
a few hundred to a few thousand dollars that are my bread and butter? I
shouldn't accept jobs less 10K units and $100K?"

Les, one of those things that drives me bonkers in the machining groups
are guys who look down on what I have and do because, "They can hold
tenths all day long." Yes they can. On the half million dollar Mori
Seiki that belongs to their boss's bank. I hold a couple thousandths
all day long on machines that belong to me. Not my boss, and not my
bank. If I need to make parts hit tolerances better than that I can.
Its just more work, and its me making it happen. Not a machine that
bleeds money. Interestingly many guys who actually own shops/businesses
and own their equipment seem to respect what I do. Even on the Internet
where there is little or no risk of getting poked in the nose. I used
to joke that someday I want to be a real machinist. Michael Yellowhair
(owner of Praxis Precision), told me, "Bob you do real work that people
pay for and you get repeat customers because they are happy with it. You
ARE a real machinist." He was the first one, but I noticed there is a
big difference between the guys who are drawing a paycheck, and the guys
who are risking their own.

Ingersol Rand used to be somebody in the industry, but their two stage
80 gallon compressor is garbage. I jumped at it at the time (because I
could get it on a Sunday and keep working) before I knew they had sold
out their name for profits over all else. Just so you know, there is a
local Quincy dealer. I can't afford a real Quincy, but they make small
units too. I looked at one and was astonished to find it had the EXACT
SAME Indian pump as some store brands. Right down to the same casting
marks and an artifact/defects defect from the mold or pattern. Maybe
they have a better check valve. maybe they have a better pressure
switch. Maybe they have a better unloader. Maybe they even have a
better motor and starting setup, but I sure couldn't see past that cheap
cast pump from India. I'd rather have a Chinese pump from Harbor
Freight. I know its better. I've had one on my Campbell Hausfeld 30
year old roll around for 15 years or so. In fact it has run the shop a
few times when I had to work on the main shop compressor. More so it
was my first shop compressor. I had it running all the plumbing when I
first installed all my air lines. When I reached the point when it was
on more than off I upgraded to my very first stationary compressor.

I do have a couple IR air tools made many years prior that are top
notch, but never again. If I need a "best" air tool in the future I'll
go back to Chicago Pneumatic. In fact the last air tool I bought is a
CP. A pneumatic rivet gun. I had people warning me about going with a
pneumatic instead of an electric, but then I looked up the service
interval on the CP and checked customer reviews. CP recommends checking
the hydraulic fluid level after 100,000 rivets. As a former IR
customers I recommend buy a Chicago Pneumatic. LOL.

FYI: I used to do warranty service on several brands of air
compressors. I worked at a place called Tool & Supply of Yuma before I
started The Security Consultant, and I kept working there for about a
year after. I set us up doing warranty repair and service. I was able
to correctly complete most repairs in about 50% of book time. I'm not
expert, but I know my way around an air compressor. I don't know if its
still true, but back then the Rollaire compressors required less service
or repair than any other brand. Lots of garages and tire shops back
than ran a couple of their two stage 80 gallons. They ran all day long
everyday, and they hardly ever failed. Most of the time they were
outside exposed to the weather. Most with little more than an awning to
keep direct sunlight and rain off of them.

Let me draw a parallel. Back in 1993 when I signed my first contracting
job I didn't have a truck. I hired a buddy by offering to split the net
with him because he had a truck. I didn't have a half inch drill
either. A top of the line name brand was a couple hundred bucks at Tool
and Supply or a "consumer grade" Black & Decker was $29.95 at K-Mart. I
bought the Black & Decker. When I finished the job I bought a corded
and a cordless Makita. The biggest and baddest they had. I still have
the Black & Decker. I've gotten it so hot it smoked more than once, and
it will still drive a forstner bit through a 2x4. If I had refused to
buy anything but best of the best of everything I never would have been
able to say I retired from contracting after 23 years. I've had dozens
of drills and maybe a dozen trucks since then, but if I had held out for
a brand new service truck and all top name brand new tools I would have
never signed that first job.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uiu5co$t77u$2@dont-email.me...

....A top of the line name brand was a couple hundred bucks at Tool
and Supply or a "consumer grade" Black & Decker was $29.95 at K-Mart. I
bought the Black & Decker. When I finished the job I bought a corded
and a cordless Makita. The biggest and baddest they had. I still have
the Black & Decker. I've gotten it so hot it smoked more than once, and
it will still drive a forstner bit through a 2x4. If I had refused to
buy anything but best of the best of everything I never would have been
able to say I retired from contracting after 23 years. I've had dozens
of drills and maybe a dozen trucks since then, but if I had held out for
a brand new service truck and all top name brand new tools I would have
never signed that first job.

--
Bob La Londe

----------------------------

The custom machinery builder I started at bought both Milwaukee and B&D
tools. A 1/2" Milwaukee drill would last forever sawing large conduit holes
in steel JIC boxes. The B&D's might last a month doing that, though I still
have the first inexpensive drills I ever bought and drill steel with them.
My impression was that the life of a consumer grade tool depends very much
on who was using it.

On 11/13/2023 4:44 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 6:26 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 7:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2023 5:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>>>> As for the retirement word........... Does not exist......... I QUIT!!
>>>> However, every day is a SATURDAY!!  (almost)  Some days it flips!!!
>>>>
>>>> As for the camper... well thanks for the offer.... but no, thanks!! 🙂
>>>>
>>>> As for your compressed air challenge, it seems to me you need to work
>>>> on a better plan!!  From 2,000 miles away it will be hard for me to
>>>> help.  This might help you start to do the thinking process!!  LOL
>>>> https://www.compressedairsystems.com/air-receiver-tanks/
>>>>
>>>> Although, I kinda miss that part of my history.
>>>> Working on machines, and stuff!! etc. etc.
>>>>
>>>> We had a pair of cooling fans (32" Diameter) that needed to be
>>>> placed in
>>>> the compressor room.  I designed a bracket frame out of 2"x2"x1/8 steel
>>>> angle with a support bracket to be mounted on the wall of the room.
>>>> The room was about 20'x20' with a ceiling/roof at about 30 feet.
>>>> That is when I actually learned (taught myself) how to stick weld.
>>>> The welds looked horrible!!  But, the cooling fans are still mounted
>>>> on the wall today.  That was maybe 45 years ago.  Yea!!
>>>>
>>>> Again a lot of memories!!
>>>>
>>>> Later,
>>>
>>> Its funny.  I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in
>>> the shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175.
>>> It carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was also
>>> running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel.  I hate to say
>>> it but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine. Fuck
>>> Ingersol Rand.  The only reason I bought it was because the motor
>>> smoked on the Kobalt on a Sunday morning and I thought (MISTAKENLY)
>>> that the bigger IR I could buy on a Sunday would do a better job.
>>> I'm not sure if I said this yet, but FUCK INGERSOL RAND.  Ordinarily
>>> I would have just slapped a new motor on the Kobalt.  I should have
>>> bought another Kobalt instead.   FUCK INGERSOL RAND!!!  Not that I am
>>> bitter or anything.
>>>
>>> Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better.  I had to work on it all
>>> the time.  Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch,
>>> etc, but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>>
>> Don't take this the wrong way but "cheap" is not always the best
>> solution!!
>>
>
> How can I help but take it the wrong way.  Or maybe its not the wrong
> way.  So:
>
> "If I can't afford $43K for a 100HP 460 Volt 3 Phase Quincy scroll
> compressor and another $43K for a backup, I shouldn't be allowed to have
> an air compressor at all?"
>
> "Since I can't afford a hundred grand to bring 460V 3phase into my shop
> I shouldn't be allowed to have electricity?"
>
> "If I can't afford $320K-$380K for a tricked out Haas VM-6 I shouldn't
> be allowed to own a milling machine?"
>
> "I should tell all my customers I refuse to do all those small jobs from
> a few hundred to a few thousand dollars that are my bread and butter?  I
> shouldn't accept jobs less 10K units and $100K?"
>
> Les, one of those things that drives me bonkers in the machining groups
> are guys who look down on what I have and do because, "They can hold
> tenths all day long." Yes they can.  On the half million dollar Mori
> Seiki that belongs to their boss's bank.  I hold a couple thousandths
> all day long on machines that belong to me.  Not my boss, and not my
> bank.  If I need to make parts hit tolerances better than that I can.
> Its just more work, and its me making it happen.  Not a machine that
> bleeds money.  Interestingly many guys who actually own shops/businesses
> and own their equipment seem to respect what I do.  Even on the Internet
> where there is little or no risk of getting poked in the nose.  I used
> to joke that someday I want to be a real machinist.  Michael Yellowhair
> (owner of Praxis Precision), told me, "Bob you do real work that people
> pay for and you get repeat customers because they are happy with it. You
> ARE a real machinist."  He was the first one, but I noticed there is a
> big difference between the guys who are drawing a paycheck, and the guys
> who are risking their own.
>
> Ingersol Rand used to be somebody in the industry, but their two stage
> 80 gallon compressor is garbage.  I jumped at it at the time (because I
> could get it on a Sunday and keep working) before I knew they had sold
> out their name for profits over all else.  Just so you know, there is a
> local Quincy dealer.  I can't afford a real Quincy, but they make small
> units too.  I looked at one and was astonished to find it had the EXACT
> SAME Indian pump as some store brands.  Right down to the same casting
> marks and an artifact/defects defect from the mold or pattern.  Maybe
> they have a better check valve.  maybe they have a better pressure
> switch.  Maybe they have a better unloader.  Maybe they even have a
> better motor and starting setup, but I sure couldn't see past that cheap
> cast pump from India.  I'd rather have a Chinese pump from Harbor
> Freight.  I know its better.  I've had one on my Campbell Hausfeld 30
> year old roll around for 15 years or so.  In fact it has run the shop a
> few times when I had to work on the main shop compressor.  More so it
> was my first shop compressor.  I had it running all the plumbing when I
> first installed all my air lines.  When I reached the point when it was
> on more than off I upgraded to my very first stationary compressor.
>
> I do have a couple IR air tools made many years prior that are top
> notch, but never again.  If I need a "best" air tool in the future I'll
> go back to Chicago Pneumatic.  In fact the last air tool I bought is a
> CP.  A pneumatic rivet gun.  I had people warning me about going with a
> pneumatic instead of an electric, but then I looked up the service
> interval on the CP and checked customer reviews.  CP recommends checking
> the hydraulic fluid level after 100,000 rivets.  As a former IR
> customers I recommend buy a Chicago Pneumatic.  LOL.
>
> FYI:  I used to do warranty service on several brands of air
> compressors.  I worked at a place called Tool & Supply of Yuma before I
> started The Security Consultant, and I kept working there for about a
> year after.  I set us up doing warranty repair and service.  I was able
> to correctly complete most repairs in about 50% of book time.  I'm not
> expert, but I know my way around an air compressor.  I don't know if its
> still true, but back then the Rollaire compressors required less service
> or repair than any other brand.  Lots of garages and tire shops back
> than ran a couple of their two stage 80 gallons.  They ran all day long
> everyday, and they hardly ever failed.  Most of the time they were
> outside exposed to the weather.  Most with little more than an awning to
> keep direct sunlight and rain off of them.
>
> Let me draw a parallel.  Back in 1993 when I signed my first contracting
> job I didn't have a truck.  I hired a buddy by offering to split the net
> with him because he had a truck.  I didn't have a half inch drill
> either.  A top of the line name brand was a couple hundred bucks at Tool
> and Supply or a "consumer grade" Black & Decker was $29.95 at K-Mart.  I
> bought the Black & Decker.  When I finished the job I bought a corded
> and a cordless Makita.  The biggest and baddest they had.  I still have
> the Black & Decker.  I've gotten it so hot it smoked more than once, and
> it will still drive a forstner bit through a 2x4.  If I had refused to
> buy anything but best of the best of everything I never would have been
> able to say I retired from contracting after 23 years.  I've had dozens
> of drills and maybe a dozen trucks since then, but if I had held out for
> a brand new service truck and all top name brand new tools I would have
> never signed that first job.
>

Calm Down Bob!!

I understand, totally!!

On 11/13/2023 4:14 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:uiu5co$t77u$2@dont-email.me...
>
> ...A top of the line name brand was a couple hundred bucks at Tool
> and Supply or a "consumer grade" Black & Decker was $29.95 at K-Mart.  I
> bought the Black & Decker.  When I finished the job I bought a corded
> and a cordless Makita.  The biggest and baddest they had.  I still have
> the Black & Decker.  I've gotten it so hot it smoked more than once, and
> it will still drive a forstner bit through a 2x4.  If I had refused to
> buy anything but best of the best of everything I never would have been
> able to say I retired from contracting after 23 years.  I've had dozens
> of drills and maybe a dozen trucks since then, but if I had held out for
> a brand new service truck and all top name brand new tools I would have
> never signed that first job.
>

I bought the "best" when I could afford to, but I never let it stop me
from getting a job done either.

I used a similarly cheap B&D circular saw for breaking down steel for
years with an abrasive blade. I made a lot of DirecTV and Primestar
dish non-penetrating roof mounts by breaking down old steel bread racks
for the angle iron with one back in the mid 90s. I might still have it,
although now I tend to use other tools, and my dirty saw is a cheap
Ryobi. It sits on the shelf under a work bench right next to my Skil
worm drive.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 11/13/2023 5:19 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
> On 11/13/2023 4:44 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 6:26 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2023 7:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>> On 11/12/2023 5:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>>>>> As for the retirement word........... Does not exist......... I QUIT!!
>>>>> However, every day is a SATURDAY!!  (almost)  Some days it flips!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the camper... well thanks for the offer.... but no, thanks!! 🙂
>>>>>
>>>>> As for your compressed air challenge, it seems to me you need to work
>>>>> on a better plan!!  From 2,000 miles away it will be hard for me to
>>>>> help.  This might help you start to do the thinking process!!  LOL
>>>>> https://www.compressedairsystems.com/air-receiver-tanks/
>>>>>
>>>>> Although, I kinda miss that part of my history.
>>>>> Working on machines, and stuff!! etc. etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> We had a pair of cooling fans (32" Diameter) that needed to be
>>>>> placed in
>>>>> the compressor room.  I designed a bracket frame out of 2"x2"x1/8
>>>>> steel
>>>>> angle with a support bracket to be mounted on the wall of the room.
>>>>> The room was about 20'x20' with a ceiling/roof at about 30 feet.
>>>>> That is when I actually learned (taught myself) how to stick weld.
>>>>> The welds looked horrible!!  But, the cooling fans are still mounted
>>>>> on the wall today.  That was maybe 45 years ago.  Yea!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Again a lot of memories!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Later,
>>>>
>>>> Its funny.  I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in
>>>> the shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175.
>>>> It carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was
>>>> also running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel.  I hate to
>>>> say it but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine. Fuck
>>>> Ingersol Rand.  The only reason I bought it was because the motor
>>>> smoked on the Kobalt on a Sunday morning and I thought (MISTAKENLY)
>>>> that the bigger IR I could buy on a Sunday would do a better job.
>>>> I'm not sure if I said this yet, but FUCK INGERSOL RAND.  Ordinarily
>>>> I would have just slapped a new motor on the Kobalt.  I should have
>>>> bought another Kobalt instead.   FUCK INGERSOL RAND!!!  Not that I
>>>> am bitter or anything.
>>>>
>>>> Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better.  I had to work on it all
>>>> the time.  Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch,
>>>> etc, but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Don't take this the wrong way but "cheap" is not always the best
>>> solution!!
>>>
>>
>> How can I help but take it the wrong way.  Or maybe its not the wrong
>> way.  So:
>>
>> "If I can't afford $43K for a 100HP 460 Volt 3 Phase Quincy scroll
>> compressor and another $43K for a backup, I shouldn't be allowed to
>> have an air compressor at all?"
>>
>> "Since I can't afford a hundred grand to bring 460V 3phase into my
>> shop I shouldn't be allowed to have electricity?"
>>
>> "If I can't afford $320K-$380K for a tricked out Haas VM-6 I shouldn't
>> be allowed to own a milling machine?"
>>
>> "I should tell all my customers I refuse to do all those small jobs
>> from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars that are my bread and
>> butter?  I shouldn't accept jobs less 10K units and $100K?"
>>
>> Les, one of those things that drives me bonkers in the machining
>> groups are guys who look down on what I have and do because, "They can
>> hold tenths all day long." Yes they can.  On the half million dollar
>> Mori Seiki that belongs to their boss's bank.  I hold a couple
>> thousandths all day long on machines that belong to me.  Not my boss,
>> and not my bank.  If I need to make parts hit tolerances better than
>> that I can. Its just more work, and its me making it happen.  Not a
>> machine that bleeds money.  Interestingly many guys who actually own
>> shops/businesses and own their equipment seem to respect what I do.
>> Even on the Internet where there is little or no risk of getting poked
>> in the nose.  I used to joke that someday I want to be a real
>> machinist.  Michael Yellowhair (owner of Praxis Precision), told me,
>> "Bob you do real work that people pay for and you get repeat customers
>> because they are happy with it. You ARE a real machinist."  He was the
>> first one, but I noticed there is a big difference between the guys
>> who are drawing a paycheck, and the guys who are risking their own.
>>
>> Ingersol Rand used to be somebody in the industry, but their two stage
>> 80 gallon compressor is garbage.  I jumped at it at the time (because
>> I could get it on a Sunday and keep working) before I knew they had
>> sold out their name for profits over all else.  Just so you know,
>> there is a local Quincy dealer.  I can't afford a real Quincy, but
>> they make small units too.  I looked at one and was astonished to find
>> it had the EXACT SAME Indian pump as some store brands.  Right down to
>> the same casting marks and an artifact/defects defect from the mold or
>> pattern.  Maybe they have a better check valve.  maybe they have a
>> better pressure switch.  Maybe they have a better unloader.  Maybe
>> they even have a better motor and starting setup, but I sure couldn't
>> see past that cheap cast pump from India.  I'd rather have a Chinese
>> pump from Harbor Freight.  I know its better.  I've had one on my
>> Campbell Hausfeld 30 year old roll around for 15 years or so.  In fact
>> it has run the shop a few times when I had to work on the main shop
>> compressor.  More so it was my first shop compressor.  I had it
>> running all the plumbing when I first installed all my air lines.
>> When I reached the point when it was on more than off I upgraded to my
>> very first stationary compressor.
>>
>> I do have a couple IR air tools made many years prior that are top
>> notch, but never again.  If I need a "best" air tool in the future
>> I'll go back to Chicago Pneumatic.  In fact the last air tool I bought
>> is a CP.  A pneumatic rivet gun.  I had people warning me about going
>> with a pneumatic instead of an electric, but then I looked up the
>> service interval on the CP and checked customer reviews.  CP
>> recommends checking the hydraulic fluid level after 100,000 rivets.
>> As a former IR customers I recommend buy a Chicago Pneumatic.  LOL.
>>
>> FYI:  I used to do warranty service on several brands of air
>> compressors.  I worked at a place called Tool & Supply of Yuma before
>> I started The Security Consultant, and I kept working there for about
>> a year after.  I set us up doing warranty repair and service.  I was
>> able to correctly complete most repairs in about 50% of book time.
>> I'm not expert, but I know my way around an air compressor.  I don't
>> know if its still true, but back then the Rollaire compressors
>> required less service or repair than any other brand.  Lots of garages
>> and tire shops back than ran a couple of their two stage 80 gallons.
>> They ran all day long everyday, and they hardly ever failed.  Most of
>> the time they were outside exposed to the weather.  Most with little
>> more than an awning to keep direct sunlight and rain off of them.
>>
>> Let me draw a parallel.  Back in 1993 when I signed my first
>> contracting job I didn't have a truck.  I hired a buddy by offering to
>> split the net with him because he had a truck.  I didn't have a half
>> inch drill either.  A top of the line name brand was a couple hundred
>> bucks at Tool and Supply or a "consumer grade" Black & Decker was
>> $29.95 at K-Mart.  I bought the Black & Decker.  When I finished the
>> job I bought a corded and a cordless Makita.  The biggest and baddest
>> they had.  I still have the Black & Decker.  I've gotten it so hot it
>> smoked more than once, and it will still drive a forstner bit through
>> a 2x4.  If I had refused to buy anything but best of the best of
>> everything I never would have been able to say I retired from
>> contracting after 23 years.  I've had dozens of drills and maybe a
>> dozen trucks since then, but if I had held out for a brand new service
>> truck and all top name brand new tools I would have never signed that
>> first job.
>>
>
>
> Calm Down Bob!!
>

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

> On 11/12/2023 6:26 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 7:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2023 5:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>>>> As for the retirement word........... Does not exist......... I QUIT!!
>>>> However, every day is a SATURDAY!!  (almost)  Some days it flips!!!
>>>>
>>>> As for the camper... well thanks for the offer.... but no, thanks!! .Ÿ.‚
>>>>
>>>> As for your compressed air challenge, it seems to me you need to work
>>>> on a better plan!!  From 2,000 miles away it will be hard for me
>>>> to help.  This might help you start to do the thinking process!! 
>>>> LOL
>>>> https://www.compressedairsystems.com/air-receiver-tanks/
>>>>
>>>> Although, I kinda miss that part of my history.
>>>> Working on machines, and stuff!! etc. etc.
>>>>
>>>> We had a pair of cooling fans (32" Diameter) that needed to be placed in
>>>> the compressor room.  I designed a bracket frame out of 2"x2"x1/8 steel
>>>> angle with a support bracket to be mounted on the wall of the room.
>>>> The room was about 20'x20' with a ceiling/roof at about 30 feet.
>>>> That is when I actually learned (taught myself) how to stick weld.
>>>> The welds looked horrible!!  But, the cooling fans are still mounted
>>>> on the wall today.  That was maybe 45 years ago.  Yea!!
>>>>
>>>> Again a lot of memories!!
>>>>
>>>> Later,
>>>
>>> Its funny.  I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in
>>> the shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175. 
>>> It carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was
>>> also running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel.  I hate
>>> to say it but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better
>>> machine. Fuck Ingersol Rand.  The only reason I bought it was
>>> because the motor smoked on the Kobalt on a Sunday morning and I
>>> thought (MISTAKENLY) that the bigger IR I could buy on a Sunday
>>> would do a better job.  I'm not sure if I said this yet, but FUCK
>>> INGERSOL RAND.  Ordinarily I would have just slapped a new motor on
>>> the Kobalt.  I should have bought another Kobalt instead.   FUCK
>>> INGERSOL RAND!!!  Not that I am bitter or anything.
>>>
>>> Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better.  I had to work on it all
>>> the time.  Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure
>>> switch, etc, but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>>
>> Don't take this the wrong way but "cheap" is not always the best
>> solution!!
>>
>>
>
> How can I help but take it the wrong way. Or maybe its not the wrong
> way. So:
>
> "If I can't afford $43K for a 100HP 460 Volt 3 Phase Quincy scroll
> compressor and another $43K for a backup, I shouldn't be allowed to
> have an air compressor at all?"
>
> "Since I can't afford a hundred grand to bring 460V 3phase into my
> shop I shouldn't be allowed to have electricity?"
>
> "If I can't afford $320K-$380K for a tricked out Haas VM-6 I shouldn't
> be allowed to own a milling machine?"
>
> "I should tell all my customers I refuse to do all those small jobs
> from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars that are my bread and
> butter? I shouldn't accept jobs less 10K units and $100K?"
>
> Les, one of those things that drives me bonkers in the machining
> groups are guys who look down on what I have and do because, "They can
> hold tenths all day long." Yes they can. On the half million dollar
> Mori Seiki that belongs to their boss's bank. I hold a couple
> thousandths all day long on machines that belong to me. Not my boss,
> and not my bank. If I need to make parts hit tolerances better than
> that I can. Its just more work, and its me making it happen. Not a
> machine that bleeds money. Interestingly many guys who actually own
> shops/businesses and own their equipment seem to respect what I do.
> Even on the Internet where there is little or no risk of getting poked
> in the nose. I used to joke that someday I want to be a real
> machinist. Michael Yellowhair (owner of Praxis Precision), told me,
> "Bob you do real work that people pay for and you get repeat customers
> because they are happy with it. You ARE a real machinist." He was the
> first one, but I noticed there is a big difference between the guys
> who are drawing a paycheck, and the guys who are risking their own.
>
> Ingersol Rand used to be somebody in the industry, but their two stage
> 80 gallon compressor is garbage. I jumped at it at the time (because
> I could get it on a Sunday and keep working) before I knew they had
> sold out their name for profits over all else. Just so you know,
> there is a local Quincy dealer. I can't afford a real Quincy, but
> they make small units too. I looked at one and was astonished to find
> it had the EXACT SAME Indian pump as some store brands. Right down to
> the same casting marks and an artifact/defects defect from the mold or
> pattern. Maybe they have a better check valve. maybe they have a
> better pressure switch. Maybe they have a better unloader. Maybe
> they even have a better motor and starting setup, but I sure couldn't
> see past that cheap cast pump from India. I'd rather have a Chinese
> pump from Harbor Freight. I know its better. I've had one on my
> Campbell Hausfeld 30 year old roll around for 15 years or so. In fact
> it has run the shop a few times when I had to work on the main shop
> compressor. More so it was my first shop compressor. I had it
> running all the plumbing when I first installed all my air lines.
> When I reached the point when it was on more than off I upgraded to my
> very first stationary compressor.
>
> I do have a couple IR air tools made many years prior that are top
> notch, but never again. If I need a "best" air tool in the future
> I'll go back to Chicago Pneumatic. In fact the last air tool I bought
> is a CP. A pneumatic rivet gun. I had people warning me about going
> with a pneumatic instead of an electric, but then I looked up the
> service interval on the CP and checked customer reviews. CP
> recommends checking the hydraulic fluid level after 100,000 rivets.
> As a former IR customers I recommend buy a Chicago Pneumatic. LOL.
>
> FYI: I used to do warranty service on several brands of air
> compressors. I worked at a place called Tool & Supply of Yuma before
> I started The Security Consultant, and I kept working there for about
> a year after. I set us up doing warranty repair and service. I was
> able to correctly complete most repairs in about 50% of book time.
> I'm not expert, but I know my way around an air compressor. I don't
> know if its still true, but back then the Rollaire compressors
> required less service or repair than any other brand. Lots of garages
> and tire shops back than ran a couple of their two stage 80 gallons.
> They ran all day long everyday, and they hardly ever failed. Most of
> the time they were outside exposed to the weather. Most with little
> more than an awning to keep direct sunlight and rain off of them.
>
> Let me draw a parallel. Back in 1993 when I signed my first
> contracting job I didn't have a truck. I hired a buddy by offering to
> split the net with him because he had a truck. I didn't have a half
> inch drill either. A top of the line name brand was a couple hundred
> bucks at Tool and Supply or a "consumer grade" Black & Decker was
> $29.95 at K-Mart. I bought the Black & Decker. When I finished the
> job I bought a corded and a cordless Makita. The biggest and baddest
> they had. I still have the Black & Decker. I've gotten it so hot it
> smoked more than once, and it will still drive a forstner bit through
> a 2x4. If I had refused to buy anything but best of the best of
> everything I never would have been able to say I retired from
> contracting after 23 years. I've had dozens of drills and maybe a
> dozen trucks since then, but if I had held out for a brand new service
> truck and all top name brand new tools I would have never signed that
> first job.
>
> --
> Bob La Londe
> CNC Molds N Stuff

Well said. Great thick layers of reality in there in many planes.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uiuehj$u3s3$1@dont-email.me...

I made a lot of DirecTV and Primestar
dish non-penetrating roof mounts by breaking down old steel bread racks
for the angle iron with one back in the mid 90s.

----------------------------------------

How were they non-penetrating?

I ask because I suspend my roof solar panels from these:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Werner-Stainless-Steel-Permanent-D-Ring-Fall-Protection-Roof-Anchor-A230302W/318086043
https://modernize.com/homeowner-resources/solar/solar-ballast

and depend on their weight and a wide base to keep the wind from moving
them. I'm still looking for a good permanent location for them, having just
removed trees that shaded (and threatened) much of the roof much of the day.
Also the chimney cleaning platform rests on pipe uprights sealed with vent
stack boots and is further secured at the upper end to steel straps run
under the shingles.

If you have another nonintrusive way to mount things on a shingled roof I'd
like to know.

I installed the pipe uprights and boots when I reshingled, and didn't
properly fit the shingles around them, so the next rain dripped onto and
stained my just-paid-off deed in the incoming mail from the mortgage company
on the table below. Karma?

On 11/13/2023 4:44 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 6:26 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
[...]
>> Don't take this the wrong way but "cheap" is not always the best
>> solution!!
>>

As if Bob didn't already know that.

>
> How can I help but take it the wrong way.  Or maybe its not the wrong
> way.  So:
>
> [...]

(A 'spaining about how running a business is a bit different than
working for somebody who does.)

On 11/14/2023 5:20 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:uiuehj$u3s3$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I made a lot of DirecTV and Primestar
> dish non-penetrating roof mounts by breaking down old steel bread racks
> for the angle iron with one back in the mid 90s.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> How were they non-penetrating?
>
> I ask because I suspend my roof solar panels from these:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Werner-Stainless-Steel-Permanent-D-Ring-Fall-Protection-Roof-Anchor-A230302W/318086043
> https://modernize.com/homeowner-resources/solar/solar-ballast
>
> and depend on their weight and a wide base to keep the wind from moving
> them. I'm still looking for a good permanent location for them, having
> just removed trees that shaded (and threatened) much of the roof much of
> the day. Also the chimney cleaning platform rests on pipe uprights
> sealed with vent stack boots and is further secured at the upper end to
> steel straps run under the shingles.
>
> If you have another nonintrusive way to mount things on a shingled roof
> I'd like to know.
>
> I installed the pipe uprights and boots when I reshingled, and didn't
> properly fit the shingles around them, so the next rain dripped onto and
> stained my just-paid-off deed in the incoming mail from the mortgage
> company on the table below. Karma?
>

We used them on flat roof installations. Basically a piece of tube/pipe
the right size for the dish hardware welded/bolted/super-glued (just
kidding) to a rectangular frame. You put the dish on them, and then
filled the frame with concrete blocks. I'm not so sure the roof could
handle the weight load for an adequate number of concrete blocks to wind
load a roof full of solar panels.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 11/14/2023 6:21 AM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
> On 11/13/2023 4:44 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 11/12/2023 6:26 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
> [...]
>>> Don't take this the wrong way but "cheap" is not always the best
>>> solution!!
>>>
>
> As if Bob didn't already know that.
>
>>
>> How can I help but take it the wrong way.  Or maybe its not the wrong
>> way.  So:
>>
>> [...]
>
> (A 'spaining about how running a business is a bit different than
> working for somebody who does.)

To be fair, Les is also a retired communications contractor / business
owner.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 11/14/2023 10:41 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 11/14/2023 5:20 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:uiuehj$u3s3$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> I made a lot of DirecTV and Primestar
>> dish non-penetrating roof mounts by breaking down old steel bread racks
>> for the angle iron with one back in the mid 90s.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>> How were they non-penetrating?
>>
>> I ask because I suspend my roof solar panels from these:
>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Werner-Stainless-Steel-Permanent-D-Ring-Fall-Protection-Roof-Anchor-A230302W/318086043
>> https://modernize.com/homeowner-resources/solar/solar-ballast
>>
>> and depend on their weight and a wide base to keep the wind from
>> moving them. I'm still looking for a good permanent location for them,
>> having just removed trees that shaded (and threatened) much of the
>> roof much of the day. Also the chimney cleaning platform rests on pipe
>> uprights sealed with vent stack boots and is further secured at the
>> upper end to steel straps run under the shingles.
>>
>> If you have another nonintrusive way to mount things on a shingled
>> roof I'd like to know.
>>
>> I installed the pipe uprights and boots when I reshingled, and didn't
>> properly fit the shingles around them, so the next rain dripped onto
>> and stained my just-paid-off deed in the incoming mail from the
>> mortgage company on the table below. Karma?
>>
>
>
> We used them on flat roof installations.  Basically a piece of tube/pipe
> the right size for the dish hardware welded/bolted/super-glued (just
> kidding) to a rectangular frame.  You put the dish on them, and then
> filled the frame with concrete blocks.  I'm not so sure the roof could
> handle the weight load for an adequate number of concrete blocks to wind
> load a roof full of solar panels.
>

The non penetrating roof mounts worked great for the small DishNet,
DirecTV, and PrimeStar dishes. For a short time (year or so) I also
subcontracted service work for a Muzak(tm) installing company. They
used a larger dish, and even many of those were just weighted down with
bricks.

Growing up I installed a fair number of the old C-band dishes. We
always mounted them on heavy steel tube set in concrete in the ground.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uj0bg7$1an63$1@dont-email.me...

On 11/14/2023 5:20 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uiuehj$u3s3$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I made a lot of DirecTV and Primestar
> dish non-penetrating roof mounts by breaking down old steel bread racks
> for the angle iron with one back in the mid 90s.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> How were they non-penetrating?
>
> I ask because I suspend my roof solar panels from these:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Werner-Stainless-Steel-Permanent-D-Ring-Fall-Protection-Roof-Anchor-A230302W/318086043
> https://modernize.com/homeowner-resources/solar/solar-ballast
>
> and depend on their weight and a wide base to keep the wind from moving
> them. I'm still looking for a good permanent location for them, having
> just removed trees that shaded (and threatened) much of the roof much of
> the day. Also the chimney cleaning platform rests on pipe uprights sealed
> with vent stack boots and is further secured at the upper end to steel
> straps run under the shingles.
>
> If you have another nonintrusive way to mount things on a shingled roof
> I'd like to know.
>
> I installed the pipe uprights and boots when I reshingled, and didn't
> properly fit the shingles around them, so the next rain dripped onto and
> stained my just-paid-off deed in the incoming mail from the mortgage
> company on the table below. Karma?
>

We used them on flat roof installations. Basically a piece of tube/pipe
the right size for the dish hardware welded/bolted/super-glued (just
kidding) to a rectangular frame. You put the dish on them, and then
filled the frame with concrete blocks.

<< So ballasted, on a flat roof. >>

I'm not so sure the roof could
handle the weight load for an adequate number of concrete blocks to wind
load a roof full of solar panels.

<< Maybe not, I have only 300W up there and an antenna mast and the platform
support pipe to guy them both ways horizontally. >>

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:uj0chf$1avd6$1@dont-email.me...

<< Maybe not, I have only 300W up there and an antenna mast and the platform
support pipe to guy them both ways horizontally. >>

This is snow country. The panels add less than 2.5 Lbs per square foot,
equal to 2" of snow. Two feet of it is common here.
https://evogov.s3.amazonaws.com/141/media/109213.pdf

The safety eyes are for when I shovel it off. When my grandmother's light
weight all aluminum shovel broke from salt corrosion I extended it ~18" and
it can catapult snow about 30', well beyond the path around the house where
a standard shovel would dump it.

On 11/15/2023 5:01 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:uj0chf$1avd6$1@dont-email.me...
>
> << Maybe not, I have only 300W up there and an antenna mast and the
> platform
> support pipe to guy them both ways horizontally. >>
>
> This is snow country. The panels add less than 2.5 Lbs per square foot,
> equal to 2" of snow. Two feet of it is common here.
> https://evogov.s3.amazonaws.com/141/media/109213.pdf
>
> The safety eyes are for when I shovel it off. When my grandmother's
> light weight all aluminum shovel broke from salt corrosion I extended it
> ~18" and it can catapult snow about 30', well beyond the path around the
> house where a standard shovel would dump it.
>

I don't know what type of wind you get.

If you add bricks for ballast you would add that weight to your snow
load, but the panels would also act as sails. Here snow load is
nothing. Literally. In all my life I have never seen snow that didn't
melt instantly when it hit here in the desert. I have seen snow only a
few times, but it just left little wet spots. My concern was wind load
for a substantial solar array could be significant. Here we get dust
storms with sustained winds in the 45-60 mph range and gusts up to 80
mph. For a dink little dish on a flat roof potentially (almost always)
behind a parapet wall its not a big deal, and if it moves a little its
an easy fix. More bricks. Sure, but that means more weight, and that
weight is added to your snow load.

Here wind and seismic zone are our issues.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uj3bog$1t542$1@dont-email.me...

On 11/15/2023 5:01 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:uj0chf$1avd6$1@dont-email.me...
>
> << Maybe not, I have only 300W up there and an antenna mast and the
> platform
> support pipe to guy them both ways horizontally. >>
>
> This is snow country. The panels add less than 2.5 Lbs per square foot,
> equal to 2" of snow. Two feet of it is common here.
> https://evogov.s3.amazonaws.com/141/media/109213.pdf
>
> The safety eyes are for when I shovel it off. When my grandmother's light
> weight all aluminum shovel broke from salt corrosion I extended it ~18"
> and it can catapult snow about 30', well beyond the path around the house
> where a standard shovel would dump it.
>

I don't know what type of wind you get.

If you add bricks for ballast you would add that weight to your snow
load, but the panels would also act as sails. Here snow load is
nothing. Literally. In all my life I have never seen snow that didn't
melt instantly when it hit here in the desert. I have seen snow only a
few times, but it just left little wet spots. My concern was wind load
for a substantial solar array could be significant. Here we get dust
storms with sustained winds in the 45-60 mph range and gusts up to 80
mph. For a dink little dish on a flat roof potentially (almost always)
behind a parapet wall its not a big deal, and if it moves a little its
an easy fix. More bricks. Sure, but that means more weight, and that
weight is added to your snow load.

Here wind and seismic zone are our issues.

Bob La Londe

-------------------------------

I'm in a shallow valley that runs at an angle to the prevailing wind, so it
mostly affects the tree tops. I just had five of them taken down because
they could have fallen on the roof, cut up the firewood and am stacking the
lumber logs to cover for the winter. That 16' long gantry hoist I built is
getting a workout, plus a few mods.

My roof solar array isn't "substantial" and will stay up there if the wind
shifts it, because it hangs from the safety eyes. 300W will recharge the
battery for the freezer in up to moderate overcast or light rain and I have
another 200W to add at a December sun angle after finishing the more
critical winter prep tasks. Their price has fallen below $0.70 per Watt, and
these tested at 91% of rating from low November sun near 42 North. By mid
February I've measured full rated power from older panels. They work much
better at lower temperature, enough that the full sun power production is
nearly constant from February through November.

This is a DC version of the Wattmeter I mentioned, and used with a large
rheostat to test panel maximum power, and see if an MPPT controller would be
worth the extra cost, vs adding another panel to a much cheaper PWM
controller. I agree with the advice that PWM is better below 500W.
https://www.amazon.com/PEACEFAIR-PZEM-051-6-5-100V-Electric-Amperage/dp/B07GDM19TD
They come in several current ratings, the 20A one has an internal shunt and
is a little easier to package, or use as-is.
It reads current in only one direction so it's not a battery
charge/discharge meter.