Hello all

Already got a challenge I'm looking at.

Done webpage showing what I am looking at and conjecturing solutions
http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231120_skipload/cm_skipload.html
"Skip load - Condurrow mine"

More background on the mine
http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231109_cm1st/231109_condurrow.html
"Condurrow mine"
- has pictures giving general impression of the environment.

I'm trying to broaden the input to this endeavour by posting to RCM.

I'm looking to rope to operate mechanisms because of its lightness and
softness re. being used in a constricted environment with people
around.

On a basic practical level
* keep the ropes as short as possible
* preferably have them hang down the shaft "naturally" as the "parked"
position - not coiling on the floor if can be avoided

I'm visualising capstans/windlasses for the two operations
* open and close the "gates" to the ore bin
* raise and lower the tip of the chute which rotates-out over the
(ore-)skip

There would always be two people there, so one can crank and the other
can tail the rope. Particularly with the "gate" - let go of the tail
of the rope and the "gates" drop in gravity and cut off the flow out
of the ore-bin. That you really want...

(obvious point - no "stopper knot" or anything in the rope - if it's
released it goes, with nothing to catch on anything)

The tip of the chute - you would want it to "fault" to "up" but I
cannot see how to do that readily - however so long as the "gates"
fault to "closed" you only stand to lose a few kg of ore down the
shaft "in-extremis" - a "nothing".

Any thoughts?

Rich Smith

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyttpd3jea.fsf@void.com...

Hello all

Already got a challenge I'm looking at.

Done webpage showing what I am looking at and conjecturing solutions
http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231120_skipload/cm_skipload.html
"Skip load - Condurrow mine"

More background on the mine
http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231109_cm1st/231109_condurrow.html
"Condurrow mine"
- has pictures giving general impression of the environment.

I'm trying to broaden the input to this endeavour by posting to RCM.

I'm looking to rope to operate mechanisms because of its lightness and
softness re. being used in a constricted environment with people
around.

On a basic practical level
* keep the ropes as short as possible
* preferably have them hang down the shaft "naturally" as the "parked"
position - not coiling on the floor if can be avoided

I'm visualising capstans/windlasses for the two operations
* open and close the "gates" to the ore bin
* raise and lower the tip of the chute which rotates-out over the
(ore-)skip

There would always be two people there, so one can crank and the other
can tail the rope. Particularly with the "gate" - let go of the tail
of the rope and the "gates" drop in gravity and cut off the flow out
of the ore-bin. That you really want...

(obvious point - no "stopper knot" or anything in the rope - if it's
released it goes, with nothing to catch on anything)

The tip of the chute - you would want it to "fault" to "up" but I
cannot see how to do that readily - however so long as the "gates"
fault to "closed" you only stand to lose a few kg of ore down the
shaft "in-extremis" - a "nothing".

Any thoughts?

Rich Smith

-----------------------------------------------

Not too sure I understand the problem or your questions. I have several
manual rope/chain lifts around the house and these are my observations on
them.

Braided cotton rope is very easy on the hands. My second choice is braided
polyester. The cotton rope that operates my chimney cleaning brush lasts for
many years outdoors. My hands are hard from handling firewood etc but the
skin dries and cracks in winter.

Given the choice I lift loads up to 3000# above head level with a chainfall,
below it with a lever chain hoist. I just finished stacking logs that pegged
my 1000KG crane scale at one end. The 1.5 ton lever hoist had no trouble
raising them to put timbers underneath.

Winch handles can snap back really hard if your hand slips unless they have
a ratchet, which can become a wear and maintenance issue. The ratchet
doesn't protect you while lowering the load. The person tailing the rope
should be warned not to let it fall under foot where it could grab an ankle.
Two boat trailer winches raise my gantry track to the tops of their
supporting tripods, where I chain them as the winches are rated only 1200#.

A block and tackle isn't bad with cotton or braided synthetic rope, hard on
the hands with twisted nylon or polypropylene. I like a cam-type jam cleat
for backup above the tie-off cleat, so I don't have to maintain tension
while securing the rope to the cleat. One raises and lowers the TV antenna,
another stores heavy and awkward 10' hoisting tripods, a third holds up the
outer end of a hinged extension to the deck roof.
https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/cleat-hitch
I make several crossover passes before securing the final loop so slippery
rope will give warning when it's starting to slip after I've undone the
securing loop with my fingers.

For period authenticity you might look for a Weston differential chain
hoist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_pulley
The loose side of the haul chain bounces around and should be guided onto
the pulley. That applies to chain falls too, but they just jam instead of
dropping the load.

They have the valuable curiosity factor that their method of operation may
not be evident to visitors who see them from a distance.

This may not apply to you, but my chimney rain cap acts like an inverted
pendulum with an extension below the pivot for the operating cord. Its
weight holds it either open or closed and a brief tug on the cord sets it in
motion toward the other direction.

I don't understand the ore chute enough to suggest a fail-safe that closes
it. At the Titanic inquest there was some discussion of the difficulty of
making coal chute doors close automatically because the debris jams them.
The watertight bulkheads between compartments had a fairly complex mechanism
to allow them to close either on command or automatically during flooding
without falling too fast onto someone passing through.

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

>> "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyttpd3jea.fsf@void.com...
>>
>> Hello all
>>
>> Already got a challenge I'm looking at.
>>
>> Done webpage showing what I am looking at and conjecturing solutions
>> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231120_skipload/cm_skipload.html
>> "Skip load - Condurrow mine"
>>
>> More background on the mine
>> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231109_cm1st/231109_condurrow.html
>> "Condurrow mine"
>> - has pictures giving general impression of the environment.
>>
>> I'm trying to broaden the input to this endeavour by posting to RCM.
>>
>> I'm looking to rope to operate mechanisms because of its lightness and
>> softness re. being used in a constricted environment with people
>> around.
>>
>> On a basic practical level
>> * keep the ropes as short as possible
>> * preferably have them hang down the shaft "naturally" as the "parked"
>> position - not coiling on the floor if can be avoided
>>
>> I'm visualising capstans/windlasses for the two operations
>> * open and close the "gates" to the ore bin
>> * raise and lower the tip of the chute which rotates-out over the
>> (ore-)skip
>>
>> There would always be two people there, so one can crank and the other
>> can tail the rope. Particularly with the "gate" - let go of the tail
>> of the rope and the "gates" drop in gravity and cut off the flow out
>> of the ore-bin. That you really want...
>>
>> (obvious point - no "stopper knot" or anything in the rope - if it's
>> released it goes, with nothing to catch on anything)
>>
>> The tip of the chute - you would want it to "fault" to "up" but I
>> cannot see how to do that readily - however so long as the "gates"
>> fault to "closed" you only stand to lose a few kg of ore down the
>> shaft "in-extremis" - a "nothing".
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Rich Smith
>>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> Not too sure I understand the problem or your questions. I have
> several manual rope/chain lifts around the house and these are my
> observations on them.
>
> Braided cotton rope is very easy on the hands. My second choice is
> braided polyester. The cotton rope that operates my chimney cleaning
> brush lasts for many years outdoors. My hands are hard from handling
> firewood etc but the skin dries and cracks in winter.
>
> Given the choice I lift loads up to 3000# above head level with a
> chainfall, below it with a lever chain hoist. I just finished stacking
> logs that pegged my 1000KG crane scale at one end. The 1.5 ton lever
> hoist had no trouble raising them to put timbers underneath.
>
> Winch handles can snap back really hard if your hand slips unless they
> have a ratchet, which can become a wear and maintenance issue. The
> ratchet doesn't protect you while lowering the load. The person
> tailing the rope should be warned not to let it fall under foot where
> it could grab an ankle. Two boat trailer winches raise my gantry track
> to the tops of their supporting tripods, where I chain them as the
> winches are rated only 1200#.
>
> A block and tackle isn't bad with cotton or braided synthetic rope,
> hard on the hands with twisted nylon or polypropylene. I like a
> cam-type jam cleat for backup above the tie-off cleat, so I don't have
> to maintain tension while securing the rope to the cleat. One raises
> and lowers the TV antenna, another stores heavy and awkward 10'
> hoisting tripods, a third holds up the outer end of a hinged extension
> to the deck roof.
> https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/cleat-hitch
> I make several crossover passes before securing the final loop so
> slippery rope will give warning when it's starting to slip after I've
> undone the securing loop with my fingers.
>
> For period authenticity you might look for a Weston differential chain
> hoist.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_pulley
> The loose side of the haul chain bounces around and should be guided
> onto the pulley. That applies to chain falls too, but they just jam
> instead of dropping the load.
>
> They have the valuable curiosity factor that their method of operation
> may not be evident to visitors who see them from a distance.
>
> This may not apply to you, but my chimney rain cap acts like an
> inverted pendulum with an extension below the pivot for the operating
> cord. Its weight holds it either open or closed and a brief tug on the
> cord sets it in motion toward the other direction.
>
> I don't understand the ore chute enough to suggest a fail-safe that
> closes it. At the Titanic inquest there was some discussion of the
> difficulty of making coal chute doors close automatically because the
> debris jams them. The watertight bulkheads between compartments had a
> fairly complex mechanism to allow them to close either on command or
> automatically during flooding without falling too fast onto someone
> passing through.

There is so much you cover here, with what you have written.
If I picked any one thing it would distract from all others and give a
false impression of priority.
I am amazed how many things you have managed to cover.
I recommend to anyone landing on this thread trying to work out what
it's about to read Jim's response in full and consider it for how it
could guide you with in your applications.

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyleapgcgn.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
....
>There is so much you cover here, with what you have written....

-------------------------

Here's a source:
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/tm3_34x86.pdf

It omits synthetic rope. My preference is for braided polyester, or climbing
rope, because sunlight and water negatively affect nylon. Static rope has
low stretch, dynamic rope has more stretch to cushion falls. Arborist "bull"
rope is good too. Marine rope would be great if it wasn't so overpriced. I
rarely have access to fishermans' suppliers, only recreational boaters'. My
sister lives near a harbor but I visit mostly on holidays like today when
everything is closed.

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

> "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyleapgcgn.fsf@void.com...
>
> "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
> ...
>>There is so much you cover here, with what you have written....
>
> -------------------------
>
> Here's a source:
> https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/tm3_34x86.pdf
>
> It omits synthetic rope. My preference is for braided polyester, or
> climbing rope, because sunlight and water negatively affect
> nylon. Static rope has low stretch, dynamic rope has more stretch to
> cushion falls. Arborist "bull" rope is good too. Marine rope would be
> great if it wasn't so overpriced. I rarely have access to fishermans'
> suppliers, only recreational boaters'. My sister lives near a harbor
> but I visit mostly on holidays like today when everything is closed.

Anchored to wooden timber pitwork - need to very much limit strength
so "in-extremis" a mishap cannot have the ropes pulling down the
pitwork. Make the ropes used of deliberately limited strength. So
in-extremis the rope breaks. Lower strength material rope, of smaller
size - and not a braid, which is stronger.

Another reason to use windlasses/capstans - so can use a rope so small
you could only lift a few kg with it by hand - but has a breaking
strength of say half-a-tonne for 6mm (1/4inch) "cheap" cut-film
polypropylene 3-strand laid rope. Small rope dia. works for you with
a small neat windlass.

Any braid is going to send the strength way up.

Another objection to braids in this application - cannot see inside a
braid to inspect condition. Rope for something like rock-climbing
used carefully - yes braid. "Harsh" use on construction sites or in
mines - ability to twist open the lay of a 3-strand rope and inspect
condition if/when/where attention is so drawn - is so valuable.
"Beats" a lot of "higher-level" arguments.

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5y1sm5ws.fsf@void.com...

Anchored to wooden timber pitwork - need to very much limit strength
so "in-extremis" a mishap cannot have the ropes pulling down the
pitwork. Make the ropes used of deliberately limited strength. So
in-extremis the rope breaks. Lower strength material rope, of smaller
size - and not a braid, which is stronger.

Another reason to use windlasses/capstans - so can use a rope so small
you could only lift a few kg with it by hand - but has a breaking
strength of say half-a-tonne for 6mm (1/4inch) "cheap" cut-film
polypropylene 3-strand laid rope. Small rope dia. works for you with
a small neat windlass.

Any braid is going to send the strength way up.

Another objection to braids in this application - cannot see inside a
braid to inspect condition. Rope for something like rock-climbing
used carefully - yes braid. "Harsh" use on construction sites or in
mines - ability to twist open the lay of a 3-strand rope and inspect
condition if/when/where attention is so drawn - is so valuable.
"Beats" a lot of "higher-level" arguments.

---------------------------------------

This looks and handles like traditional rope but is made from cut
polypropylene film:
https://www.knotandrope.com/collections/promanila-rope

The thought I put into this was appreciated by the club when I went to
the mine.
It's started some discussions going.
So that's good.
Helped the guy continuing repair of the compressed air pipe down on the
tramming level yesterday.
Rich S

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyfs0viobx.fsf@void.com...

The thought I put into this was appreciated by the club when I went to
the mine.
It's started some discussions going.
So that's good.
Helped the guy continuing repair of the compressed air pipe down on the
tramming level yesterday.
Rich S

---------------------------

It's good you could help. Wanting to preserve history plus having the skills
to do it aren't that common. This is a local example by people whose
judgment and ability didn't measure up to their intentions.
https://mysteryhillnh.info/

The natives of North America never left the Stone Age though Central and
South America did, to a Bronze Age.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_pre-Columbian_America
Yet they can be completely like us if they choose to, as can Pacific
Islanders, and I suspect we could have stayed primitive except for some
unknown trigger.

I have some experience with rigging, none with mining. The only useful
things in the ground here are sand, gravel and granite.
I do have a rock drill (free, needed repair) and wedges and shims for
splitting rock.

Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
....
> Done webpage showing what I am looking at and conjecturing solutions
> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231120_skipload/cm_skipload.html
> "Skip load - Condurrow mine"
>
> More background on the mine
> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231109_cm1st/231109_condurrow.html
> "Condurrow mine" - has pictures giving general impression of the environment.
....
> I'm looking to rope to operate mechanisms because of its lightness and
> softness re. being used in a constricted environment with people
> around.
....

Is this the mine referred to at <http://www.cbms.org.uk/index.htm>,
with photos as at <http://www.cbms.org.uk/condurrow_photos.htm>,
apparently called Great Condurrow Mine ? The pictures show a
headframe, but whether it has cables isn't clear from pictures, or
which shaft the headframe serves. Also the description mentions King
Edward Mine near Troon -- is that a few km west of Great Condurrow
Mine ?

Do you have a headframe in working order, more or less, to raise and
lower the skip, and what you want to do with ropes is operate skip
gates, or tip trucks, etc? Or is it not working / not present, and
you want to use ropes to raise small loads?

"James Waldby" wrote in message news:ujrtdi$2mh1k$1@dont-email.me...

Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
....
> Done webpage showing what I am looking at and conjecturing solutions
> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231120_skipload/cm_skipload.html
> "Skip load - Condurrow mine"
>
> More background on the mine
> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231109_cm1st/231109_condurrow.html
> "Condurrow mine" - has pictures giving general impression of the
> environment.
....
> I'm looking to rope to operate mechanisms because of its lightness and
> softness re. being used in a constricted environment with people
> around.
....

Is this the mine referred to at <http://www.cbms.org.uk/index.htm>,
with photos as at <http://www.cbms.org.uk/condurrow_photos.htm>,
apparently called Great Condurrow Mine ? The pictures show a
headframe, but whether it has cables isn't clear from pictures, or
which shaft the headframe serves. Also the description mentions King
Edward Mine near Troon -- is that a few km west of Great Condurrow
Mine ?

Do you have a headframe in working order, more or less, to raise and
lower the skip, and what you want to do with ropes is operate skip
gates, or tip trucks, etc? Or is it not working / not present, and
you want to use ropes to raise small loads?

-----------------------------------------
This old photo shows the headframe cable and connects the multiple names:
https://www.cornishmineimages.co.uk/king-edward-mine/

no@no.no (James Waldby) writes:

> Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
> ...
>> Done webpage showing what I am looking at and conjecturing solutions
>> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231120_skipload/cm_skipload.html
>> "Skip load - Condurrow mine"
>>
>> More background on the mine
>> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231109_cm1st/231109_condurrow.html
>> "Condurrow mine" - has pictures giving general impression of the environment.
> ...
>> I'm looking to rope to operate mechanisms because of its lightness and
>> softness re. being used in a constricted environment with people
>> around.
> ...
>
> Is this the mine referred to at <http://www.cbms.org.uk/index.htm>,
> with photos as at <http://www.cbms.org.uk/condurrow_photos.htm>,
> apparently called Great Condurrow Mine ? The pictures show a
> headframe, but whether it has cables isn't clear from pictures, or
> which shaft the headframe serves. Also the description mentions King
> Edward Mine near Troon -- is that a few km west of Great Condurrow
> Mine ?
>
> Do you have a headframe in working order, more or less, to raise and
> lower the skip, and what you want to do with ropes is operate skip
> gates, or tip trucks, etc? Or is it not working / not present, and
> you want to use ropes to raise small loads?

Might be ;-)

The headframe is complete, all is functional including the winder
(electrically powered), etc.

The "haulage shaft" (correct term? - there's "pumping shafts" and
"man-engine shafts" (no there were no women working as miners then) and
shafts with the whim engine (rotative engine) for hauling ore out of
the mine) has the cables and skip(s).

This mine has a shaft for person access down ladders.

King Edward Mine is less than a kilometre away.
It flooded in the 1920's when the neighbouring Grenville mines
closed. They were naughty with their exploration tunnels going beyond
their sett and broke into King Edward workings - which the water in
King Edward mine found a very agreeable flow direction and the
Grenville mines had to pump King Edward mine for free (and the Judge
told them exactly the same seeing as they had intruded into
K.E. sett).

Nothing of King Edward mine was above the water table, so Camborne
School of Mines had to abandon it as their teaching mine and move to
Condurrow - which at the top of the hill has several levels above the
water table.

The ropes are for operating the parts of the chute and mechanism when
transfering from the ore bin to the skip.

Tip of chute into place above skip; open "gate" and ore flows; close
"gate" when skip is nearly full; lift tip of chote up and out of way.
Then signal for skip to be raised.

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

> "James Waldby" wrote in message news:ujrtdi$2mh1k$1@dont-email.me...
>
> Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
> ...
>> Done webpage showing what I am looking at and conjecturing solutions
>> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231120_skipload/cm_skipload.html
>> "Skip load - Condurrow mine"
>>
>> More background on the mine
>> http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/condurrow/231109_cm1st/231109_condurrow.html
>> "Condurrow mine" - has pictures giving general impression of the
>> environment.
> ...
>> I'm looking to rope to operate mechanisms because of its lightness and
>> softness re. being used in a constricted environment with people
>> around.
> ...
>
> Is this the mine referred to at <http://www.cbms.org.uk/index.htm>,
> with photos as at <http://www.cbms.org.uk/condurrow_photos.htm>,
> apparently called Great Condurrow Mine ? The pictures show a
> headframe, but whether it has cables isn't clear from pictures, or
> which shaft the headframe serves. Also the description mentions King
> Edward Mine near Troon -- is that a few km west of Great Condurrow
> Mine ?
>
> Do you have a headframe in working order, more or less, to raise and
> lower the skip, and what you want to do with ropes is operate skip
> gates, or tip trucks, etc? Or is it not working / not present, and
> you want to use ropes to raise small loads?
>
> -----------------------------------------
> This old photo shows the headframe cable and connects the multiple names:
> https://www.cornishmineimages.co.uk/king-edward-mine/

King Edward mine - is flooded to near the surface so "abandoned" - but
the workings are preserved - can process tin ore - recentlyt managed
to produce a few kg. of tin metal mined in Cornwall to make a
presentation medals for the "G7" summit in Carbis Bay.

King Edward has a high-pressure horizontal engine - on an integral frame.

It was unlikely anyone would make beam-engine whim engines again - so
Camborne School of Mines went with the times.

I think that was non-condensing - so was no more efficient than a
Cornish beam engine at 50psi (just over 3 Bar). All was not equal
when it came to Cornish (cycle) beam engines...

But emphasising - this was King Edward mine.

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly8r6lsfpu.fsf_-_@void.com...

The "haulage shaft" (correct term? - there's "pumping shafts" and
"man-engine shafts" (no there were no women working as miners then) and
shafts with the whim engine (rotative engine) for hauling ore out of
the mine) has the cables and skip(s).

This mine has a shaft for person access down ladders.

------------------------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_engine

I suspect it was a strong incentive to arrive at work relatively sober.

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

>> "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly8r6lsfpu.fsf_-_@void.com...
>> ...

> ------------------------------
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_engine
>
> I suspect it was a strong incentive to arrive at work relatively
> sober.

There were "man engines" around here, yes.

Skip and guide design:
https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/PB283776.xhtml

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

> Skip and guide design:
> https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/PB283776.xhtml

Why I come here - you can "strike gold" on any topic :-)

Wonderfully "aspergic" - come back with a 246 pages of
information-packed PDF on skips and haulage shafts for skips !
You've help me line up to get teased for years to come :-)

For "our" teeny little hobby mine...

Best wishes on this joyful day.

PS currently internationally working mining engineer - whose family
has a small commercial mine here - is back in Cornwwall for a break
and might be coming by this cafe I am in shortly...

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly7cm22g4f.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

> Skip and guide design:
> https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/PB283776.xhtml

Why I come here - you can "strike gold" on any topic :-)

Wonderfully "aspergic" - come back with a 246 pages of
information-packed PDF on skips and haulage shafts for skips !
You've help me line up to get teased for years to come :-)

For "our" teeny little hobby mine...

Best wishes on this joyful day.

PS currently internationally working mining engineer - whose family
has a small commercial mine here - is back in Cornwwall for a break
and might be coming by this cafe I am in shortly...

-------------------------

I was looking for older mining technology, rope operated skips and ore
chutes etc. There's a fair amount of old-time industrial reconstruction
around here, except for mines.
https://www.nps.gov/sair/index.htm
That's where as a scientifically interested kid I watched the bloomery
process for making wrought iron without being able to melt it.

This has been an interesting engineering look at a field where the simplest
things are difficult, sort of like the Infantry. I always kept in mind that
everything I designed for the military had to be operable with gloves on. I
spent December 1972 at a snow covered mountaintop communications relay
station near Fulda. To minimize the IR signature there was (officially) very
little heat in the tents and none in the equipment vans.

The group of mostly warm-climate Latinos I was attached to had the
regulation 5 gallon jerry can for the tent stove plainly perched on a
tarp-covered fuel tank trailer that actually kept the stove red hot all
night. Being from New Hampshire, warm enough for them was toasty for me.
Typing on the Teletypes was very slow, though. The operators kept the doors
open to dissipate the hashish smell.

Jim - I've been in Fulda. I had a ladyfriend and friends there.

In the brief time I did it, making equipment for the divers was
likewise - assume very limited to zero visibility, currents - and
gloves on. Makign sure anythign I made would work in "real" conditions.

Still smiling this next morning coming back with a 246-page document
on mine skips - for our teeny little winding arrangement :-)

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

> I was looking for older mining technology, rope operated skips and ore
> chutes etc. There's a fair amount of old-time industrial
> reconstruction around here, except for mines.
> https://www.nps.gov/sair/index.htm
> That's where as a scientifically interested kid I watched the bloomery
> process for making wrought iron without being able to melt it.
>
> ...

Saugus iron works - not melt...

The Abbeydale Industrial Hamlet is near where I grew up - Sheffield, England.
First steel where the process is to melt it - "crucible steel".

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lywmu1rkzj.fsf@void.com...

The Abbeydale Industrial Hamlet is near where I grew up - Sheffield,
England.
First steel where the process is to melt it - "crucible steel".

-----------------------------

The accounts I've read of Huntsman didn't describe how he achieved
temperatures of 1500-1600C. Knowing the carbon content of a steel sample
gives the minimum temperature needed to melt it.
https://bortec-group.com/glossary/iron-carbon-phase-diagram/

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lywmu1rkzj.fsf@void.com...

The Abbeydale Industrial Hamlet is near where I grew up - Sheffield,
England.
First steel where the process is to melt it - "crucible steel".

-----------------------------

The accounts I've read of Huntsman didn't describe how he achieved
temperatures of 1500-1600C. Knowing the carbon content of a steel sample
gives the minimum temperature needed to melt it.
https://bortec-group.com/glossary/iron-carbon-phase-diagram/

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

> "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lywmu1rkzj.fsf@void.com...
>
> The Abbeydale Industrial Hamlet is near where I grew up - Sheffield,
> England.
> First steel where the process is to melt it - "crucible steel".
>
> -----------------------------
>
> The accounts I've read of Huntsman didn't describe how he achieved
> temperatures of 1500-1600C. Knowing the carbon content of a steel
> sample gives the minimum temperature needed to melt it.
> https://bortec-group.com/glossary/iron-carbon-phase-diagram/

Using coke (baked coal).
Is like a tall thin blacksmith's forge.

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly1qc9szs9.fsf@void.com...

In the brief time I did it, making equipment for the divers was
likewise - assume very limited to zero visibility, currents - and
gloves on. Makign sure anythign I made would work in "real" conditions.

---------------------------------
Thanks for reminding me that working under the car on the exhaust yesterday
was far from the worst job, though the freezing temperature and nose to
wrench clearance were similar. And not having the dealer do it was worth
$160 an hour.

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 12:54:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly1qc9szs9.fsf@void.com...
>
>In the brief time I did it, making equipment for the divers was
>likewise - assume very limited to zero visibility, currents - and
>gloves on. Makign sure anythign I made would work in "real" conditions.
>
>---------------------------------
>Thanks for reminding me that working under the car on the exhaust yesterday
>was far from the worst job, though the freezing temperature and nose to
>wrench clearance were similar. And not having the dealer do it was worth
>$160 an hour.
OTOH my dealer service department promotes the use of Nitrogen for
tire inflation, so, when the tire symbol lights up I go there and let
them top up my tires for free!

"Gerry" wrote in message news:mbnimidt6519ib2qvri0jb0sn3rkprfo1i@4ax.com...

OTOH my dealer service department promotes the use of Nitrogen for
tire inflation, so, when the tire symbol lights up I go there and let
them top up my tires for free!
-----------------------
.... and look for something they can charge you to fix, or suggest buying a
new one. Last week I asked to sit in a Ford Bronco and they offered to let
me take it home overnight. A year ago when I tried the Maverick (liked it)
their lot was nearly bare, enough to practice tight parking maneuvers in it.
What I really want is a new 2000 CRV, which I'm slowly getting piece by
piece.