On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>
> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "

Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
any sense.

The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.

ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
will change nothing.

> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!

I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
overuse trigger words.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>
>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>
> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
> any sense.
>
> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>
> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
> will change nothing.

Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
so on.

Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
a substitute while they are assessed.
>
>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>
> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
> overuse trigger words.

Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis

Roger Merriman
>

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
> >>
> >> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
> >> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
> >> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
> >
> > Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
> > any sense.
> >
> > The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
> > way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
> > vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
> > bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
> > And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
> >
> > ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures..
> > Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
> > will change nothing.
> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
> so on.
>
> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
> a substitute while they are assessed.
> >
> >> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
> >
> > I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
> > overuse trigger words.
> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>
> Roger Merriman
> >
Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't be noticeably effected.

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 21:50:38 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>
>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
>> any sense.
>>
>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>>
>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
>> will change nothing.
>
>Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
>as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
>they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
>of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
>so on.
>
>Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
>a substitute while they are assessed.
>>
>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>
>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>> overuse trigger words.
>
>Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>
>Roger Merriman
>>

Well, the solution seems obvious. Simply install a speed control on
all racing bicycles that will restrict the maximum speed to, oh say, 5
mph.

Which may sound illogical but no more so then the original "report".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 10/11/2023 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>
>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the
>> realm of sports and penetrates the corporate world: the
>> notion that safety can take a back seat in the pursuit of
>> performance or profit. "
>
> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't
> mean they made any sense.
>
> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim
> through it all the way. But the authors seem to think that
> bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound vehicle, typical speed ~25
> mph) should have the same "safety" bureaucracy as Formula 1
> racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph. And this is
> based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>
> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want
> handlebar failures. Instituting a "safety culture" that says
> "No more handlebar failures!" will change nothing.
>
>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>
> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You
> shouldn't overuse trigger words.
>

'penetrates the corporate world... pursuit of ... profits'

It's a common faux analysis and misplaced cause (of
everything Marxist authors dislike) to besmirch any aspect
of free markets.

And typically unrelated to the supposed evils or failures,
as usual.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>>
>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>>
>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
>>> any sense.
>>>
>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>>>
>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
>>> will change nothing.
>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
>> so on.
>>
>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
>> a substitute while they are assessed.
>>>
>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>>
>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>>> overuse trigger words.
>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>>
> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
> be noticeably effected.
>
Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
are.

I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
some performance compromises.

Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
work but not effectively and so on.

Roger Merriman

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:00:27 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41?PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>>>
>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>>>
>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
>>>> any sense.
>>>>
>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>>>>
>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
>>>> will change nothing.
>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
>>> so on.
>>>
>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
>>>>
>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>>>> overuse trigger words.
>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
>> be noticeably effected.
>>
>Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
>Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
>are.
>
>I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
>some performance compromises.
>
>Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
>work but not effectively and so on.
>
>Roger Merriman

The "lightest" bike seems to be one built by a German guy named Gunter
Mai who logged over 20,000km on the machine for a couple years and it
weighed at around 3.2kg. He has now built a lighter one weighing 2.7
kg. (:-)
10 speed cassette, double chain ring, total 20 speed
https://antranik.org/worlds-lightest-road-bike-at-2-7kg/
(:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
> >>>>
> >>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
> >>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
> >>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
> >>>
> >>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
> >>> any sense.
> >>>
> >>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
> >>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
> >>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
> >>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph..
> >>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
> >>>
> >>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
> >>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
> >>> will change nothing.
> >> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
> >> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
> >> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
> >> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
> >> so on.
> >>
> >> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
> >> a substitute while they are assessed.
> >>>
> >>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
> >>>
> >>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
> >>> overuse trigger words.
> >> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >>>
> > Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
> > road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
> > grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
> > knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
> > doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
> > they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
> > be noticeably effected.
> >
> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
> are.
>
> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
> some performance compromises.
>
> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
> work but not effectively and so on.
>
> Roger Merriman

The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete bullshit.

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:00:27 GMT, Roger Meriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41?PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
>>>>> any sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
>>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
>>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
>>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>>>>>
>>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
>>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
>>>>> will change nothing.
>>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
>>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
>>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
>>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
>>>> so on.
>>>>
>>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
>>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>>>>> overuse trigger words.
>>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
>>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
>>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
>>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
>>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
>>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
>>> be noticeably effected.
>>>
>> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
>> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
>> are.
>>
>> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
>> some performance compromises.
>>
>> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
>> work but not effectively and so on.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> The "lightest" bike seems to be one built by a German guy named Gunter
> Mai who logged over 20,000km on the machine for a couple years and it
> weighed at around 3.2kg. He has now built a lighter one weighing 2.7
> kg. (:-)
> 10 speed cassette, double chain ring, total 20 speed
> https://antranik.org/worlds-lightest-road-bike-at-2-7kg/
> (:-)

Most of the hill climb bikes tend to be under the UCI limit but not by
much, get a few headline 4kg but would seem performance trumps absolute
weight.

Note UCI doesn’t run these events.

Roger Merriman

funkma...@hotmail.com <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
>>>>> any sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
>>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
>>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
>>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>>>>>
>>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
>>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
>>>>> will change nothing.
>>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
>>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
>>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
>>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
>>>> so on.
>>>>
>>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
>>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>>>>> overuse trigger words.
>>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
>>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
>>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
>>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
>>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
>>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
>>> be noticeably effected.
>>>
>> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
>> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
>> are.
>>
>> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
>> some performance compromises.
>>
>> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
>> work but not effectively and so on.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete bullshit.
>
If anything I’d expect weight to climb as XC races are becoming more
technical at least I’m told!

Roger Merriman

On 10/12/2023 6:46 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
>>>>> any sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
>>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
>>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
>>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>>>>>
>>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
>>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
>>>>> will change nothing.
>>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
>>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
>>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
>>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
>>>> so on.
>>>>
>>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
>>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>>>>> overuse trigger words.
>>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
>>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
>>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
>>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
>>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
>>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
>>> be noticeably effected.
>>>
>> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
>> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
>> are.
>>
>> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
>> some performance compromises.
>>
>> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
>> work but not effectively and so on.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete bullshit.

Well, possible if perhaps not optimal for intended use maybe:
https://bikerumor.com/bfs2018-the-worlds-lightest-29er-mountain-bikes-are-a-scott-spark-scale/

Note the date on that,
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 10/12/2023 6:46 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>>>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>>>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
>>>>>> any sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
>>>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
>>>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>>>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
>>>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
>>>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
>>>>>> will change nothing.
>>>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
>>>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
>>>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
>>>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
>>>>> so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
>>>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>>>>>> overuse trigger words.
>>>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
>>>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
>>>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
>>>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
>>>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
>>>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
>>>> be noticeably effected.
>>>>
>>> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
>>> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
>>> are.
>>>
>>> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
>>> some performance compromises.
>>>
>>> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
>>> work but not effectively and so on.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete bullshit.
>
> Well, possible if perhaps not optimal for intended use maybe:
> https://bikerumor.com/bfs2018-the-worlds-lightest-29er-mountain-bikes-are-a-scott-spark-scale/
>
> Note the date on that,

Those disks look like they would warp just if you looked at them the wrong
way! Be fine on fire roads and similar and for 2015 sort of gravel type
bike stuff the london 2012 XC mountain bike course is very much rideable by
a gravel bike bar perhaps some of the drop offs!

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:51 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/12/2023 6:46 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
> >>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
> >>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
> >>>>> any sense.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
> >>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
> >>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
> >>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
> >>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
> >>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
> >>>>> will change nothing.
> >>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
> >>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
> >>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
> >>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
> >>>> so on.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
> >>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
> >>>>> overuse trigger words.
> >>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>>>
> >>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
> >>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
> >>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
> >>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
> >>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
> >>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
> >>> be noticeably effected.
> >>>
> >> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
> >> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
> >> are.
> >>
> >> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
> >> some performance compromises.
> >>
> >> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
> >> work but not effectively and so on.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete bullshit.
> Well, possible if perhaps not optimal for intended use maybe:
> https://bikerumor.com/bfs2018-the-worlds-lightest-29er-mountain-bikes-are-a-scott-spark-scale/
>
> Note the date on that,
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

At one time Flunky used to have the ability to read. I suppose that disappeared when he claimed to be an engineer. I said that a sub 15 kg full suspension 29er COULD be built, not that it presently was being built. Even my Ridley is 8 kg because I wouldn't pay for superlight parts. I could save a full kilogram in wheels and tires alone. But I prefer reliability and braking to a kg which I couldn't feel. I did have a Look KG 685 that was 16 lbs with heavy wheels and tire and a Chorus group in a 58 cm so plainly building superlight bikes is easy now.

On 10/11/2023 9:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/11/2023 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>
>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
....
>>
>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>
>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>> overuse trigger words.
>>
>
> 'penetrates the corporate world... pursuit of ... profits'
>
> It's a common faux analysis and misplaced cause (of everything Marxist
> authors dislike) to besmirch any aspect of free markets.

Sorry, Andrew, while I disagree with the slant of the article under
discussion, I just don't believe that "free markets" should be _totally_
free. Profit-making companies have a long, long history of putting
profits above safety, and of externalizing their problems, letting
others deal with them.

As I've mentioned, before I was born, my grandfather was killed in an
industrial accident that OSHA would have prevented, had it existed. I
would have liked to meet him.

But that company and its allies in the industry also made the local
river into an industrial sewer. It's been almost 50 years that their
pollution has been stopped, and it's only recently that the river has
resumed some appearance of normality. But people are still warned not to
eat many fish, and not to stand where they'll sink into the industrial
waste muck just under the surface.

Other examples abound. Companies need at least some reasonable regulation.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/12/2023 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/12/2023 6:46 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of
>>>>>>> sports
>>>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can
>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> any sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it
>>>>>> all the
>>>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15
>>>>>> pound
>>>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>>>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200
>>>>>> mph.
>>>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's
>>>>>> weird.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar
>>>>>> failures.
>>>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar
>>>>>> failures!"
>>>>>> will change nothing.
>>>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed
>>>>> though
>>>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol
>>>>> clearly
>>>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own
>>>>> choice as one
>>>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m
>>>>> fine” and
>>>>> so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for
>>>>> example have
>>>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>>>>>> overuse trigger words.
>>>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
>>>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
>>>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though
>>>> they
>>>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
>>>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
>>>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health
>>>> won't
>>>> be noticeably effected.
>>>>
>>> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro
>>> level.
>>> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
>>> are.
>>>
>>> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to
>>> make
>>> some performance compromises.
>>>
>>> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes
>>> that do
>>> work but not effectively and so on.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete
>> bullshit.
>
> Well, possible if perhaps not optimal for intended use maybe:
> https://bikerumor.com/bfs2018-the-worlds-lightest-29er-mountain-bikes-are-a-scott-spark-scale/
>
> Note the date on that,

Still, the FS one is over 17 pounds. Is someone selling one under 15
pounds?

Not that I'm interested in one. Stupid light, chasing diminishing
returns, etc. etc.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 10/12/2023 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 10/12/2023 6:46 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of
>>>>>>>> sports
>>>>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can
>>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they
>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>> any sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it
>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15
>>>>>>> pound
>>>>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
>>>>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200
>>>>>>> mph.
>>>>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's
>>>>>>> weird.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar
>>>>>>> failures.
>>>>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar
>>>>>>> failures!"
>>>>>>> will change nothing.
>>>>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed
>>>>>> though
>>>>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol
>>>>>> clearly
>>>>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own
>>>>>> choice as one
>>>>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m
>>>>>> fine” and
>>>>>> so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for
>>>>>> example have
>>>>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
>>>>>>> overuse trigger words.
>>>>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
>>>>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
>>>>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though
>>>>> they
>>>>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
>>>>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
>>>>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health
>>>>> won't
>>>>> be noticeably effected.
>>>>>
>>>> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro
>>>> level.
>>>> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
>>>> are.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to
>>>> make
>>>> some performance compromises.
>>>>
>>>> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes
>>>> that do
>>>> work but not effectively and so on.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete
>>> bullshit.
>>
>> Well, possible if perhaps not optimal for intended use maybe:
>> https://bikerumor.com/bfs2018-the-worlds-lightest-29er-mountain-bikes-are-a-scott-spark-scale/
>>
>> Note the date on that,
>
> Still, the FS one is over 17 pounds. Is someone selling one under 15
> pounds?
>
> Not that I'm interested in one. Stupid light, chasing diminishing
> returns, etc. etc.
>
Very unlikely to be faster or perform better, even within the uk hill climb
doesn’t seem to go that low, particularly the folks who win!

Full suspension MTB light weight rotors and tires are asking for trouble,
in terms of performance ie grip/braking let alone durability.

Need to be used in quite narrow type of areas/terrain.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 9:00:51 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/12/2023 6:46 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> >>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
> >>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
> >>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
> >>>>> any sense.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
> >>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
> >>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
> >>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
> >>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
> >>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
> >>>>> will change nothing.
> >>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
> >>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
> >>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
> >>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
> >>>> so on.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
> >>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
> >>>>> overuse trigger words.
> >>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>>>
> >>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
> >>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
> >>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
> >>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
> >>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
> >>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
> >>> be noticeably effected.
> >>>
> >> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
> >> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
> >> are.
> >>
> >> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
> >> some performance compromises.
> >>
> >> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
> >> work but not effectively and so on.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete bullshit.
> Well, possible if perhaps not optimal for intended use maybe:
> https://bikerumor.com/bfs2018-the-worlds-lightest-29er-mountain-bikes-are-a-scott-spark-scale/

"while Gustav has got the bike down as low as 7.33kg with the same light and sketchy wheel setup as on the hardtail, the complete build here uses some DT Swiss rims & Dugast tubulars for a more race-ready 7.86kg (17.33lb) complete weight."

Tom wrote "Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI road limit"
The UCI road limit is 15 pounds (6.8 Kg)

7.33 > 6.8

> Note the date on that,

and?

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 10:03:40 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:51 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 10/12/2023 6:46 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 6:00:31 AM UTC-4, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 2:50:41 PM UTC-7, Roger Meriman wrote:
> > >>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>>>> On 10/11/2023 1:51 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/elite-cycling-has-a-safety-problem-says-report/
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> "study unearths a systemic issue that goes beyond the realm of sports
> > >>>>>> and penetrates the corporate world: the notion that safety can take a
> > >>>>>> back seat in the pursuit of performance or profit. "
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Well, someone found a way to get published. That doesn't mean they made
> > >>>>> any sense.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The paper didn't hold my interest enough to even skim through it all the
> > >>>>> way. But the authors seem to think that bicycle racing (on a ~15 pound
> > >>>>> vehicle, typical speed ~25 mph) should have the same "safety"
> > >>>>> bureaucracy as Formula 1 racing, with 1800 pound cars hitting 200 mph.
> > >>>>> And this is based on five incidents of handlebar failure? That's weird.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ISTM that neither the rider, mechanics or teams want handlebar failures.
> > >>>>> Instituting a "safety culture" that says "No more handlebar failures!"
> > >>>>> will change nothing.
> > >>>> Indeed I suspect that the UCI weight limit for example isn’t needed though
> > >>>> as evidenced by Stefan Kung while they have a head injury protocol clearly
> > >>>> they aren’t following it, athletes will not stop of their own choice as one
> > >>>> of the symptoms of concussion is the desire to keep going, “I’m fine” and
> > >>>> so on.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Nature of road cycling does make it challenging, ie can’t for example have
> > >>>> a substitute while they are assessed.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> O deliver us from 'experts' especially Marxist experts!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I don't believe that fits Marx's definition of Marxism. You shouldn't
> > >>>>> overuse trigger words.
> > >>>> Indeed doesn’t sound remotely Marxis
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Roger Merriman
> > >>>>>
> > >>> Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI
> > >>> road limit. Never doubt the foolishness of a pro with visions of
> > >>> grandeur. EVERYONE that could afford it was taking drugs even though they
> > >>> knew that it could cause cancer and shorten their lifespans. I have no
> > >>> doubt that they are still doping but with the present health passport
> > >>> they have to be very careful perhaps to the point that their health won't
> > >>> be noticeably effected.
> > >>>
> > >> Road bikes, absolutely could and can be sub 7 kg at least at the pro level.
> > >> Though with the more focus on aero not sure how close to the limit they
> > >> are.
> > >>
> > >> I suspect for a XC MTB even a hardtail to reach sub 7kg you’d need to make
> > >> some performance compromises.
> > >>
> > >> Bit like some of the kit at hill climb bikes, ie ultralight brakes that do
> > >> work but not effectively and so on.
> > >>
> > >> Roger Merriman
> > >
> > > The claim that someone is selling a 29er FS under 15 lbs is complete bullshit.
> > Well, possible if perhaps not optimal for intended use maybe:
> > https://bikerumor.com/bfs2018-the-worlds-lightest-29er-mountain-bikes-are-a-scott-spark-scale/
> >
> > Note the date on that,
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> At one time Flunky used to have the ability to read. I suppose that disappeared when he claimed to be an engineer.

Funny coming from someone who doesn't remember what he wrote a few hours ago

> I said that a sub 15 kg full suspension 29er COULD be built, not that it presently was being built.

No, you wrote "Right now they can make full suspension 29ers that weigh under the UCI road limit. "

The UCI road limit is 15 pounds (6.8 Kg)

No one, not even from the link Andrew provided, is making a FS 29r under 15 pounds.

You're still a fucking idiot.