On 15/03/2024 22:47, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "David Billington"  wrote in message news:ut2am8$2ev2g$1@dont-email.me...
>
> Richard,
>
> Have you tried or considered the old method of dry wood hammered into
> the holes and then wetting it, not something I've tried but an article
> here
> https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Rock-split-by-using-the-swelling-pressure-of-wood-Egypt-2001_fig5_267834899
>
> .
> ---------------------------------
> I don't put much faith in academic scholars' guesses about Egyptian
> tech. The pyramid stones weigh around 5000 Lbs, a weight a small crew
> with j-bars can slide onto a flat bed truck, BTDT. I've lifted 4000 Lb
> logs to block them up off the damp ground.
> https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment-rental/forklifts/johnson-bar/1501085/
>
It was a technique I was told about decades ago as being a traditional
method, the scholar's paper was just the first I came across when I
searched for information.
>
> There are similar splitting cuts in stones at Mystery Hill in Salem
> NH, USA. The guides' explanation is that they were cut with a thin
> chisel for iron splitting wedges before the star drill was invented in
> the early 1800's. Water is easily squeezed out of wet wood.
> https://mysteryhillnh.info/
>
> A similar but undercut slot is used to lift stones:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_(lifting_appliance)
> The 3 legged one was a status symbol for Church officials.
>

On 15/03/2024 20:22, David Billington wrote:
> On 15/03/2024 18:35, Richard Smith wrote:

>>>> http://www.weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/240314_rocksplit/240314_rocksplit_drill_feathers.html
>>>> "Rock-split granite with "cordless" SDS drill and "feathers""

Yeaay!

>
> Have you tried or considered the old method of dry wood hammered into
> the holes and then wetting it, not something I've tried but an article
> here
> https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Rock-split-by-using-the-swelling-pressure-of-wood-Egypt-2001_fig5_267834899 .

I believe there is a modern high-tech variant, famously exemplified when
Jason Statham uses an expanding plug to crack the glass bottom of a
mid-air swimming pool.

Ah yes, Dexpan, Crackamite and/or Expando. I thought it was real ...

Peter Fairbrother

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> writes:

> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 18:35:24 +0000
> Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>There are some large feathers for the 32mm to 34mm hole.
>>Thing is, from my observation, they work no better than the small
>>feathers on this granite.
>
> My thinking was if there were already big holes drilled and the piece
> hadn't been split you wouldn't have to make more holes.
>
> Regarding whether to make a webpage with stuff like this... I gain info
> from lots of web pages that aren't exactly about the problem I'm trying
> to solve. I find them useful. You do a lot of the same. You're able to
> apply a concept or idea elsewhere in a completely unrelated field. As
> I've aged I now realize a lot of people can't do this😑

I had that explained to me when I was in my mid-20's. I was confused -
by just about everything - then chance had a significant encounter.
Husband of a lady who grew up next door.

He explained - the problem is everyone else - because as he explained i
was seeing things - correlations - they would never see.
With people I like I have learned to handle that - let them see that I
see these things and can make good results happen. If you otherwise fit
in, they will relate to things like "this is the sole employer in town
and we need it to survive". Was a happy time when I lived in "cider
country" in England. The technical part of my brain was very functional
then - warnings of becoming a "local yokel" were unfounded. "Win-win"
situation.

I've told you something jolly.
In Britain I have to work in jobs like welder because the ability is
frightening in a highly managerialised society.
Any difference from "mainstream average of averages" is instant
rejection.
That said - the vision of them hiding under their desks and whispering
to each other "Has he gone yet?" is amusing. I tend to pour it on
thickly when it's obvious this interview is going nowhere.

David Billington <djb@invalid.com> writes:

> On 15/03/2024 18:35, Richard Smith wrote:
>> Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:31:43 +0000
>>> Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> http://www.weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/240314_rocksplit/240314_rocksplit_drill_feathers.html
>>>> "Rock-split granite with "cordless" SDS drill and "feathers""
>>> Rich,
>>>
>>> NICE job! You have a working solution to this problem👍
>>>
>>> Forgive me... but my mind immediately went to why not make (or buy)
>>> some larger feathers to fit the Pneumatic drill hole and maybe some
>>> smaller feathers so your battery drill could use a smaller drill hole🤔
>> Not at all "forgive" - comment welcomed.
>>
>> There are some large feathers for the 32mm to 34mm hole.
>> Thing is, from my observation, they work no better than the small
>> feathers on this granite.
>> Line of small holes with matching feathers is "it".
>>
>> Problem is the compressor isn't running all the time.
>> Would be in a working mine, but this is a "hobby" mine.
>> Splitting rocks and clearing debris is like an infil job which comes
>> when it comes.
>> Takes several people and some time to get the compressor running.
>> Not going to happen when you find yourself with some time mid-way
>> through a club morning at the mine.
>>
>> If I could make some wedges of the same taper but thinner, maybe could
>> come down to a 12mm / half-inch hole
>> Area-ratio, so proportional to diameter-squared
>> (/f (expt 14 2) (expt 12 2)) ;; 1.3611111111111112
>> (/f (expt 12 2) (expt 14 2)) ;; 0.7346938775510204
>> 73% of the area.
>> Would be well worth having.
>>
>> Yes absolutely {thumbs-up}
>>
>> Best wishes, Rich Smith
>
> Richard,
>
> Have you tried or considered the old method of dry wood hammered into
> the holes and then wetting it, not something I've tried but an article
> here
> https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Rock-split-by-using-the-swelling-pressure-of-wood-Egypt-2001_fig5_267834899
> .

Not tried it - should, to respect forebearers and live their experience.
Modern there is "splitting compound". Mix the powder with water - is
expansile when "sets" - can be used to burst rocks. Never tried that.
But yes if find opportunity would be good to try the ancient method and
experience it. Would be good feeling of treading prior footsteps should
I get it to work.

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1wmq28ws5.fsf@void.com...

Not tried it - should, to respect forebearers and live their experience.
Modern there is "splitting compound". Mix the powder with water - is
expansile when "sets" - can be used to burst rocks. Never tried that.
But yes if find opportunity would be good to try the ancient method and
experience it. Would be good feeling of treading prior footsteps should
I get it to work.

----------------------------

I have a 10,000# pressure load cell and lots of dry wedge-shaped oak chips
created by the log splitter, so I'll try it after today's chores. My
experience from splitting heavy wet firewood small enough to lift to the top
of the stack is that an axe hit inadequate to split the wood forces water
from it on both sides.

On 16/03/2024 11:05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Richard Smith"  wrote in message news:m1wmq28ws5.fsf@void.com...
>
> Not tried it - should, to respect forebearers and live their experience.
> Modern there is "splitting compound".  Mix the powder with water - is
> expansile when "sets" - can be used to burst rocks.  Never tried that.
> But yes if find opportunity would be good to try the ancient method and
> experience it.  Would be good feeling of treading prior footsteps should
> I get it to work.
>
> ----------------------------
>
> I have a 10,000# pressure load cell and lots of dry wedge-shaped oak
> chips created by the log splitter, so I'll try it after today's
> chores. My experience from splitting heavy wet firewood small enough
> to lift to the top of the stack is that an axe hit inadequate to split
> the wood forces water from it on both sides.
>
What sort of oak? I'm reminded my doctor had an oak mail box made at
some expense and it didn't fare well outdoors and from what I was told
by a couple of woodworkers it must have been red oak as that's not
durable outdoors. English oak, European oak and American white oak is
durable so maybe some wood is better for splitting rock than others.

I had another look at the wet wood splitting and saw mention of wet wood
being hammered in and allowed to freeze in the winter to cause splitting.

"David Billington" wrote in message news:ut476u$2tjvv$1@dont-email.me...

What sort of oak? I'm reminded my doctor had an oak mail box made at
some expense and it didn't fare well outdoors and from what I was told
by a couple of woodworkers it must have been red oak as that's not
durable outdoors. English oak, European oak and American white oak is
durable so maybe some wood is better for splitting rock than others.

I had another look at the wet wood splitting and saw mention of wet wood
being hammered in and allowed to freeze in the winter to cause splitting.

--------------------------------
Waiting for laundry water to heat on the woodstove.

The red oak chips are too irregular, I found some extra pine wedges sold to
shim doors and windows.

I've heard that white oak lasts longer but the fungus here attacks it
faster. The red oaks I marked to cut for firewood could stand for 10 years
after dying and still only be rotted at the damp base and top branches, the
trunks were solid and dry enough to split and burn immediately. Pallets made
of red oak last outdoors for decades unless directly on damp ground. It's
used for flooring on construction trailers that stay outdoors. White oaks
rotted inward from the bark and went bad much sooner. I looked for it to saw
into furniture lumber but found no unrotted dead white oak in the forest,
only one in my yard that I cut down soon after dying.

"David Billington" wrote in message news:ut476u$2tjvv$1@dont-email.me...

On 16/03/2024 11:05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1wmq28ws5.fsf@void.com...
>
What sort of oak? I'm reminded my doctor had an oak mail box made at
some expense and it didn't fare well outdoors and from what I was told
by a couple of woodworkers it must have been red oak as that's not
durable outdoors. English oak, European oak and American white oak is
durable so maybe some wood is better for splitting rock than others.

I had another look at the wet wood splitting and saw mention of wet wood
being hammered in and allowed to freeze in the winter to cause splitting.

---------------------------

The load cell is an older model of this, last calibrated in 1992.
https://rwelectrodes.com/products/tuffaloy-10000-lb-gauge
The rest of the fixture is a C clamp pressing the wood against the plunger.

Two thin pine wedges tapped together gave a splitting force around 100 Lbs.
I doubled it to 200 Lbs, one tick mark, on a 3/8" thick square of red oak
in a plastic bag and added water about 20 minutes ago. So far the gauge
needle hasn't moved.

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:ut4jh5$309ec$1@dont-email.me...

I doubled it to 200 Lbs, one tick mark, on a 3/8" thick square of red oak
in a plastic bag and added water about 20 minutes ago. So far the gauge
needle hasn't moved.
-----------------------
4 hours later, if anything the pressure has decreased by the pointer width.
Into the freezer with it, until I need the space for the kettle of beef stew
I'm cooking.

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:ut5195$334ch$1@dont-email.me...

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:ut4jh5$309ec$1@dont-email.me...

I doubled it to 200 Lbs, one tick mark, on a 3/8" thick square of red oak
in a plastic bag and added water about 20 minutes ago. So far the gauge
needle hasn't moved.
-----------------------
4 hours later, if anything the pressure has decreased by the pointer width.
Into the freezer with it, until I need the space for the kettle of beef stew
I'm cooking.
----------------------------------------
2 more hours, 0F, the pressure is zero and the C clamp isn't tight. Out to
see if the pressure recovers as the gauge warms.

It does, a little.

Either wet wedging doesn't work or I missed something.

On 16/03/2024 23:36, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
>
> "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:ut5195$334ch$1@dont-email.me...
>
> "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:ut4jh5$309ec$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I doubled it to 200 Lbs, one tick mark,  on a 3/8" thick square of red
> oak
> in a plastic bag and added water about 20 minutes ago. So far the gauge
> needle hasn't moved.
> -----------------------
> 4 hours later, if anything the pressure has decreased by the pointer
> width.
> Into the freezer with it, until I need the space for the kettle of
> beef stew
> I'm cooking.
> ----------------------------------------
> 2 more hours, 0F, the pressure is zero and the C clamp isn't tight.
> Out to see if the pressure recovers as the gauge warms.
>
> It does, a little.
>
> Either wet wedging doesn't work or I missed something.

Why I asked about the type of oak is that I was told red oak has an open
cell structure and can allow water to wick into the wood easily which
isn't the case with other types of oak, maybe in this case that is
preventing any cellular swelling or allowing any pressure to squeeze the
water out. Can you repeat the test with white oak. I have some English
oak here but my force gauge is out of action until I replace the
loadcell lead.

"David Billington" wrote in message news:ut5b5o$352d4$1@dont-email.me...

On 16/03/2024 23:36, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
>
> "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:ut5195$334ch$1@dont-email.me...
>
> "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:ut4jh5$309ec$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I doubled it to 200 Lbs, one tick mark, on a 3/8" thick square of red oak
> in a plastic bag and added water about 20 minutes ago. So far the gauge
> needle hasn't moved.
> -----------------------
> 4 hours later, if anything the pressure has decreased by the pointer
> width.
> Into the freezer with it, until I need the space for the kettle of beef
> stew
> I'm cooking.
> ----------------------------------------
> 2 more hours, 0F, the pressure is zero and the C clamp isn't tight. Out to
> see if the pressure recovers as the gauge warms.
>
> It does, a little.
>
> Either wet wedging doesn't work or I missed something.

Why I asked about the type of oak is that I was told red oak has an open
cell structure and can allow water to wick into the wood easily which
isn't the case with other types of oak, maybe in this case that is
preventing any cellular swelling or allowing any pressure to squeeze the
water out. Can you repeat the test with white oak. I have some English
oak here but my force gauge is out of action until I replace the
loadcell lead.
---------------------------------
My white oak is still in logs so sample prep could take a while and this is
a busy time of year, I need to split and stack next year's firewood to dry,
upgrade a few things on the sawmill and get the logs out of my front yard. I
paused outdoor projects in mid December and began again in February. The
question is academic if steel wedges and feathers are available.

The gauge has warmed up and the pressure recovered, so maybe the gauge oil
shrank?

More on splitting stone:
https://www.dartmoorcam.co.uk/CAM/SplittingGranite.htm

On 17/03/2024 00:23, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "David Billington"  wrote in message news:ut5b5o$352d4$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 16/03/2024 23:36, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:ut5195$334ch$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:ut4jh5$309ec$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> I doubled it to 200 Lbs, one tick mark,  on a 3/8" thick square of
>> red oak
>> in a plastic bag and added water about 20 minutes ago. So far the gauge
>> needle hasn't moved.
>> -----------------------
>> 4 hours later, if anything the pressure has decreased by the pointer
>> width.
>> Into the freezer with it, until I need the space for the kettle of
>> beef stew
>> I'm cooking.
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 2 more hours, 0F, the pressure is zero and the C clamp isn't tight.
>> Out to see if the pressure recovers as the gauge warms.
>>
>> It does, a little.
>>
>> Either wet wedging doesn't work or I missed something.
>
> Why I asked about the type of oak is that I was told red oak has an open
> cell structure and can allow water to wick into the wood easily which
> isn't the case with other types of oak, maybe in this case that is
> preventing any cellular swelling or allowing any pressure to squeeze the
> water out. Can you repeat the test with white oak. I have some English
> oak here but my force gauge is out of action until I replace the
> loadcell lead.
> ---------------------------------
> My white oak is still in logs so sample prep could take a while and
> this is a busy time of year, I need to split and stack next year's
> firewood to dry, upgrade a few things on the sawmill and get the logs
> out of my front yard. I paused outdoor projects in mid December and
> began again in February. The question is academic if steel wedges and
> feathers are available.
>
> The gauge has warmed up and the pressure recovered, so maybe the gauge
> oil shrank?
>
> More on splitting stone:
> https://www.dartmoorcam.co.uk/CAM/SplittingGranite.htm
>
>
Did you read that page as they mention the process I mentioned and you
were trying to test.

"David Billington" wrote in message news:ut5l7s$3aes8$1@dont-email.me...

On 17/03/2024 00:23, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "David Billington" wrote in message news:ut5b5o$352d4$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 16/03/2024 23:36, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:ut5195$334ch$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:ut4jh5$309ec$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> I doubled it to 200 Lbs, one tick mark, on a 3/8" thick square of red
>> oak
>> in a plastic bag and added water about 20 minutes ago. So far the gauge
>> needle hasn't moved.
>> -----------------------
>> 4 hours later, if anything the pressure has decreased by the pointer
>> width.
>> Into the freezer with it, until I need the space for the kettle of beef
>> stew
>> I'm cooking.
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 2 more hours, 0F, the pressure is zero and the C clamp isn't tight. Out
>> to see if the pressure recovers as the gauge warms.
>>
>> It does, a little.
>>
>> Either wet wedging doesn't work or I missed something.
>
> Why I asked about the type of oak is that I was told red oak has an open
> cell structure and can allow water to wick into the wood easily which
> isn't the case with other types of oak, maybe in this case that is
> preventing any cellular swelling or allowing any pressure to squeeze the
> water out. Can you repeat the test with white oak. I have some English
> oak here but my force gauge is out of action until I replace the
> loadcell lead.
> ---------------------------------
> My white oak is still in logs so sample prep could take a while and this
> is a busy time of year, I need to split and stack next year's firewood to
> dry, upgrade a few things on the sawmill and get the logs out of my front
> yard. I paused outdoor projects in mid December and began again in
> February. The question is academic if steel wedges and feathers are
> available.
>
> The gauge has warmed up and the pressure recovered, so maybe the gauge oil
> shrank?
>
> More on splitting stone:
> https://www.dartmoorcam.co.uk/CAM/SplittingGranite.htm
>
>
Did you read that page as they mention the process I mentioned and you
were trying to test.
-------------------------------------
Of course, that's why I posted it. I was looking for more detail like
species of wood or hands-on experience, which are usually missing from
accounts of ancient technology, even Heron, Vitruvius and Frontinus. Until
the incomplete Greek temple at Didyma was examined scholars had only guessed
at Greek construction methods. The rough walls of the temple foundation
revealed the geometric layout inscribed full-size on them, to be erased and
lost when the walls were polished. The subtle convex curvature of straight
lines that counters the eye's tendency to distort had been laid out as a
short arc and then the offsets transferred to the full size layout of the
stone work, like copying a wooden ship's hull frames from the half model.
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Entasis

Hands-on technique wasn't recorded until the medieval and renaissance books
by Theophilius, Biringuccio, Agricola and Cellini. Before printing literacy
was very unusual, the first Wilkins in the Roanoke Colony, in 1619, became a
plantation owner, judge and member of the House of Burgesses yet couldn't
write his own name.

Supposedly tree roots can split boulders. I pulled a live root out of a
crack and squeezed it with pliers, and found that it was soft and easily
compressed.

MatWeb gives the tensile strength of granite as 7-25MPa, 1-3.6ksi. My wet
oak sample crushes at 400 Lbs from the 0.52" diameter C clamp pad, about
1.9ksi. Maybe it could force apart its own area of granite. Steel wedges
placed and used as directed don't split it easily, the advice is to tap them
all in to the same high pitched Tink and wait.

I suspect that bronze or iron wedges were always used, and wooden ones have
the same validity as needing the urine of a red-headed boy for quenching
steel. Sacrificial wood shims might have served to reduce the high friction
and damage I found with soft iron wedges rubbing on rough rock. A visitor
seeing them after the valuable iron wedges had been removed could have
guessed or been told a tradesmans' idiot-test joke like that the nails in a
box that point away from the wall being built are for the other side.

This experiment showed that my 10,000 Lb hydraulic load cell isn't right for
the this task. One tick mark is 200 Lbs. For critical work it's recommended
to make measurements at around half scale or more.

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:13:18 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>Supposedly tree roots can split boulders. I pulled a live root out of a
>crack and squeezed it with pliers, and found that it was soft and easily
>compressed.

One only has to observe misc plants pushing through pavement to
realize there are some interesting properties involving force
involved...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:ut73f5$3ji4l$1@dont-email.me...

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:13:18 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>Supposedly tree roots can split boulders. I pulled a live root out of a
>crack and squeezed it with pliers, and found that it was soft and easily
>compressed.

One only has to observe misc plants pushing through pavement to
realize there are some interesting properties involving force
involved...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI
---------------------------------------
The condition of our paved and dirt roads during spring thaw/freeze cycles
shows the powerful effects of water without plants being involved. I think
plants merely take advantage of existing opportunity.

On the same line I believed a strong enough wind could drive straws into
tree trunks until I closely examined a tree that had been bent by another
falling onto it. The convex upwind side had many open cracks that closed and
vanished when the tree was released.

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:45:32 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>The condition of our paved and dirt roads during spring thaw/freeze cycles
>shows the powerful effects of water without plants being involved. I think
>plants merely take advantage of existing opportunity.

I usually observe this with relatively new pavement laid down over
an area that had weeds growing but graded off. The "weed" will push the
pavement up, volcano like and continue growing. Some examples of
questionable authenticity:

https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-weed-growing-crack-pavement-green-plant-asphalt-image62240672

https://www.alamy.com/plant-growing-through-pavement-image60063689.html

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:ut7cmt$3li6e$1@dont-email.me...

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:45:32 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>The condition of our paved and dirt roads during spring thaw/freeze cycles
>shows the powerful effects of water without plants being involved. I think
>plants merely take advantage of existing opportunity.

I usually observe this with relatively new pavement laid down over
an area that had weeds growing but graded off. The "weed" will push the
pavement up, volcano like and continue growing. Some examples of
questionable authenticity:

https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-weed-growing-crack-pavement-green-plant-asphalt-image62240672

https://www.alamy.com/plant-growing-through-pavement-image60063689.html

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

---------------------------------
I haven't personally seen that but I won't deny the possibility. The grass
that tries to grow through joints in my decades old driveway pavement hasn't
succeeded in opening them up. A contractor offered to pretty up the driveway
until I told him I fix cars on it.

Much talk, minimal data:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turgor_pressure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_torture

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 15:28:35 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>Much talk, minimal data:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turgor_pressure

Some data with footnotes down the page for plants, roots and fungi...

===
"The action of turgor pressure on extensible cell walls is usually said
to be the driving force of growth within the cell.[17] An increase of
turgor pressure causes expansion of cells and extension of apical
cells, pollen tubes, and other plant structures such as root tips. Cell
expansion and an increase in turgor pressure is due to inward diffusion
of water into the cell, and turgor pressure increases due to the
increasing volume of vacuolar sap. A growing root cell's turgor
pressure can be up to 0.6 MPa, which is over three times that of a car
tire. Epidermal cells in a leaf can have pressures ranging from 1.5 to
2.0 MPa.[18] These high pressures can explain why plants can grow
through asphalt and other hard surfaces."
===

I hastily done paving job or hole patch with asphalt during the summer
quite often demonstrates this...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:ut7hlp$3li6e$2@dont-email.me...

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 15:28:35 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>Much talk, minimal data:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turgor_pressure

Some data with footnotes down the page for plants, roots and fungi...

----------------------

Good catch. Botany isn't among my strengths, at least I knew the word.

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 14:27:41 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:45:32 -0400
>"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>The condition of our paved and dirt roads during spring thaw/freeze cycles
>>shows the powerful effects of water without plants being involved. I think
>>plants merely take advantage of existing opportunity.
>
>I usually observe this with relatively new pavement laid down over
>an area that had weeds growing but graded off. The "weed" will push the
>pavement up, volcano like and continue growing. Some examples of
>questionable authenticity:
>
>
>https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-weed-growing-crack-pavement-green-plant-asphalt-image62240672
>
>https://www.alamy.com/plant-growing-through-pavement-image60063689.html

They are authentic all right!!! I've seen even worse after some
fly-by-night driveway pavers have "enlarged" a driveway.

Hello again all. Another update:

http://www.weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/240314_rocksplit/240321_rocksplit_dr_fth_conf.html
"Rock-split granite boulders confirmed"

"Batching" - all equipment works fine and good "production-rate".
Seems "proven".
Very unexpected bonus.
Plans now on what end-point sought for mine with clearing boulders.

All seeming brilliant.
Rich S