https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/16/2024 11:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under

Has there been a problem with braking? What are they trying to solve?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/16/2024 10:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 11:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
>
> Has there been a problem with braking? What are they trying
> to solve?
>

Wear a mask, stand six feet apart, fasten your seat belt, do
this, do that- wait- don't do that!

'Because we say so'.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/16/2024 11:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 11:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
>
> Has there been a problem with braking? What are they trying to solve?
>

They claim it's a safety issue. A few years ago the UCI banned the
"puppy paws" position where the rider rest his forearms on the handlebar
with the hands hanging down, because they don't want the riders hands
that far from the brake levers.. The trick by many teams was then to
tilt the brifters inward to allow the hands to be ore towards the middle
while keeping them on the hoods. The UCIs response was to restrict that
angle, claiming that moving them too far inward can compromise the
ability of the rider to reach the brake lever while in the drops.

I've used 'puppy paws' for a couple of decades, These past couple of
years I've tried the riding with my hands holding the hoods in the same
crouch I was able to get in 'puppy paws'. I found if ergonomically mush
more difficult - I'm sure that's just me though.

--
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On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 8:23:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Turning the levers too far inwards causes the lever to the bar as the brakes wear down during a rave. This is a problem with disc brakes but not so much with rim brakes that no one uses anymore.

On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 8:59:42 AM UTC-8, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 11:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 1/16/2024 11:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
> >
> > Has there been a problem with braking? What are they trying to solve?
> >
> They claim it's a safety issue. A few years ago the UCI banned the
> "puppy paws" position where the rider rest his forearms on the handlebar
> with the hands hanging down, because they don't want the riders hands
> that far from the brake levers.. The trick by many teams was then to
> tilt the brifters inward to allow the hands to be ore towards the middle
> while keeping them on the hoods. The UCIs response was to restrict that
> angle, claiming that moving them too far inward can compromise the
> ability of the rider to reach the brake lever while in the drops.
>
> I've used 'puppy paws' for a couple of decades, These past couple of
> years I've tried the riding with my hands holding the hoods in the same
> crouch I was able to get in 'puppy paws'. I found if ergonomically mush
> more difficult - I'm sure that's just me though.
>
> --
> Add xx to reply
Everything is just you.

On 1/16/2024 12:00 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 8:23:41 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> a...@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> Turning the levers too far inwards causes the lever to the bar as the brakes wear down during a rave.

I hate it when my brakes wear down during a rave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iAdZQQ0RqI

> This is a problem with disc brakes but not so much with rim brakes that no one uses anymore.

I'm not surprised, after all, this is what Ravers _used_ to sound like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzwM0f3Q5ds

--
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On 1/16/2024 11:59 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 11:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/16/2024 11:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
>>
>> Has there been a problem with braking? What are they trying to solve?
>>
>
> They claim it's a safety issue. A few years ago the UCI banned the
> "puppy paws" position where the rider rest his forearms on the handlebar
> with the hands hanging down, because they don't want the riders hands
> that far from the brake levers.. The trick by many teams was then to
> tilt the brifters inward to allow the hands to be ore towards the middle
> while keeping them on the hoods. The UCIs response was to restrict that
> angle, claiming that moving them too far inward can compromise the
> ability of the rider to reach the brake lever while in the drops.
>
> I've used 'puppy paws' for a couple of decades, These past couple of
> years I've tried the riding with my hands holding the hoods in the same
> crouch I was able to get in 'puppy paws'. I found if ergonomically mush
> more difficult - I'm sure that's just me though.

I understand the general point, but were there lots of instances of
crashes caused by riders either not reaching the levers in time, or not
being able to apply the brakes strongly enough?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 11:59 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 1/16/2024 11:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2024 11:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
>>>
>>> Has there been a problem with braking? What are they trying to solve?
>>>
>>
>> They claim it's a safety issue. A few years ago the UCI banned the
>> "puppy paws" position where the rider rest his forearms on the handlebar
>> with the hands hanging down, because they don't want the riders hands
>> that far from the brake levers.. The trick by many teams was then to
>> tilt the brifters inward to allow the hands to be ore towards the middle
>> while keeping them on the hoods. The UCIs response was to restrict that
>> angle, claiming that moving them too far inward can compromise the
>> ability of the rider to reach the brake lever while in the drops.
>>
>> I've used 'puppy paws' for a couple of decades, These past couple of
>> years I've tried the riding with my hands holding the hoods in the same
>> crouch I was able to get in 'puppy paws'. I found if ergonomically mush
>> more difficult - I'm sure that's just me though.
>
> I understand the general point, but were there lots of instances of
> crashes caused by riders either not reaching the levers in time, or not
> being able to apply the brakes strongly enough?
>
Not aware of it, I mean bunch crashes I’d assume the time to react unless
you can see it some way off isn’t going to be outside of even alert and
vigilant racers.

Possibly don’t want the public mimicking. As apparently is slightly sub
optimal and clearly not the way that the shifters are intended to be used.

Roger Merriman

On 1/16/2024 1:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 11:59 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 1/16/2024 11:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2024 11:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
>>>
>>> Has there been a problem with braking? What are they
>>> trying to solve?
>>>
>>
>> They claim it's a safety issue. A few years ago the UCI
>> banned the "puppy paws" position where the rider rest his
>> forearms on the handlebar with the hands hanging down,
>> because they don't want the riders hands that far from the
>> brake levers.. The trick by many teams was then to tilt
>> the brifters inward to allow the hands to be ore towards
>> the middle while keeping them on the hoods. The UCIs
>> response was to restrict that angle, claiming that moving
>> them too far inward can compromise the ability of the
>> rider to reach the brake lever while in the drops.
>>
>> I've used 'puppy paws' for a couple of decades, These past
>> couple of years I've tried the riding with my hands
>> holding the hoods in the same crouch I was able to get in
>> 'puppy paws'. I found if ergonomically mush more difficult
>> - I'm sure that's just me though.
>
> I understand the general point, but were there lots of
> instances of crashes caused by riders either not reaching
> the levers in time, or not being able to apply the brakes
> strongly enough?
>

'Because we say so!'
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 09:00:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Turning the levers too far inwards causes the lever to the bar

I've seen the bartender or barista do that with a beer faucet tap
handle. It causes beer to spray everywhere.

>as the brakes wear down during a rave.

I didn't know that there were bicycle raves. Thanks for the pointer.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+rave+lights&tbm=isch>
I suggest you use cable or hydraulic brakes, which don't have
batteries to wear down.

>This is a problem with disc brakes but not so much with rim brakes that no one uses anymore.

"No one"? While it's possible to ride with on one brake, methinks two
brakes are more effective.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/16/2024 2:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 11:59 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 1/16/2024 11:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2024 11:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/uci-already-enforcing-its-new-brake-lever-rules-at-santos-tour-down-under
>>>
>>> Has there been a problem with braking? What are they trying to solve?
>>>
>>
>> They claim it's a safety issue. A few years ago the UCI banned the
>> "puppy paws" position where the rider rest his forearms on the
>> handlebar with the hands hanging down, because they don't want the
>> riders hands that far from the brake levers.. The trick by many teams
>> was then to tilt the brifters inward to allow the hands to be ore
>> towards the middle while keeping them on the hoods. The UCIs response
>> was to restrict that angle, claiming that moving them too far inward
>> can compromise the ability of the rider to reach the brake lever while
>> in the drops.
>>
>> I've used 'puppy paws' for a couple of decades, These past couple of
>> years I've tried the riding with my hands holding the hoods in the
>> same crouch I was able to get in 'puppy paws'. I found if
>> ergonomically mush more difficult - I'm sure that's just me though.
>
> I understand the general point, but were there lots of instances of
> crashes caused by riders either not reaching the levers in time, or not
> being able to apply the brakes strongly enough?
>

I'm sure there have been incidents in lower-tiered event where some
knucklehead decided to ride 'puppy paws' when they were in the midst of
other riders, with obvious consequences. I think however as Roger
mentioned the 'copy cats' have just as much to do with it, the UCI
doesn't want to set those examples. They banned the 'top tube tuck' for
the same reason:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-aims-to-stamp-out-super-tuck-descending-as-part-of-broad-safety-measures/

Certainly the top pro's can handle riding in that position, but it
reduces stability rather dramatically, and you can imagine some
pro-wannabe trying to manage a twisty descent on rough pavement needing
a new face.

I'm not so much a fan of banning riding positions, but I've ridden with
a _lot_ of riders who not only don't consider their safety, but the
ignore the safety of those around them as well.

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