In “The Star Beast”, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to generate
defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that can then be moved
around by hand. A wheelchair can shoot rockets without any annoying third
law of motion kickback.

In “Wild Blue Yonder”, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent in the
wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped deformation in a frying
pan in a Tom and Jerry short. Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere
as the aliens from beyond space deform and change size randomly.

In “The Giggle”, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into balloons
and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating doorways in the floor
that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is unable to turn his hand into a
large catcher’s mitt … and one individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART
BY THE ARMS. Later, the new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new
TARDIS into existence out of nothing.

In “The Church on Ruby Road”, the Doctor emerges unscathed from having a
giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing ships fly
undetected through the skies of London manned by beings who survive on
coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck - an unlucky baby is a
three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba the Hutt’s ugly cousin. The
Doctor has absolutely no basis for knowing any of the things he knows, and
the goblins aren’t aliens - they’re just fantasy goblins, and they vanish
like tears in rain when thwarted by the Doctor’s magical powers.

All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a lot like
Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change towards accepting the
truly unbelievable as part of the stories. I’d hoped that trend - driven
mainly by Moffat - had been damped down by Chibnall (one of the few
positives of his era for me), but it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.

How do we feel about that?

Disclaimer - none of the above was written by or researched using ChatGPT
or any other AI crutch. It’s all my own work.

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

The Last Doctor wrote:

>
> In “The Star Beast”, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to
> generate defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that
> can then be moved around by hand. A wheelchair can shoot rockets
> without any annoying third law of motion kickback.
>
> In “Wild Blue Yonder”, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent
> in the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped
> deformation in a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short. Matter
> appears and disappears out of nowhere as the aliens from beyond
> space deform and change size randomly.
>
> In “The Giggle”, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into
> balloons and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating
> doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is
> unable to turn his hand into a large catcher’s mitt … and one
> individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART BY THE ARMS. Later,
> the new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into
> existence out of nothing.
>
> In “The Church on Ruby Road”, the Doctor emerges unscathed from
> having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing
> ships fly undetected through the skies of London manned by beings
> who survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck -
> an unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba
> the Hutt’s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for
> knowing any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren’t aliens
> - they’re just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain
> when thwarted by the Doctor’s magical powers.
>
> All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a
> lot like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change
> towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories.
> I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped
> down by Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but
> it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
>
> How do we feel about that?

There's a definite trend in modern 'Who' leaning towards more
fantasy elements... the recent 2023 episodes are a prime example of
that, as mentioned. But it has been there for years, RTD just seems
to like it a bit more. Doctor Who has evolved in to that sort of
show now. I don't blame it on the Disney influence as RTD is his own
man with his own ideas, the Disney $$ just makes the fantasy look
better!

Some of it is stupid... banging the TARDIS with a hammer to knock a
new one out for instance! The fantasy elements can also be an easy
'way out' for the writer. But if the episodes are entertaining to
watch I actually don't mind, as Doctor Who isn't written for 59 year
old men!

In article <urf69e$1q9fe$1@dont-email.me>,
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>
>In “The Star Beast”, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to generate
>defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that can then be moved
>around by hand. A wheelchair can shoot rockets without any annoying third
>law of motion kickback.
>
>In “Wild Blue Yonder”, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent in the
>wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped deformation in a frying
>pan in a Tom and Jerry short. Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere
>as the aliens from beyond space deform and change size randomly.
>
>In “The Giggle”, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into balloons
>and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating doorways in the floor
>that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is unable to turn his hand into a
>large catcher’s mitt … and one individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART
>BY THE ARMS. Later, the new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new
>TARDIS into existence out of nothing.
>
>In “The Church on Ruby Road”, the Doctor emerges unscathed from having a
>giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing ships fly
>undetected through the skies of London manned by beings who survive on
>coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck - an unlucky baby is a
>three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba the Hutt’s ugly cousin. The
>Doctor has absolutely no basis for knowing any of the things he knows, and
>the goblins aren’t aliens - they’re just fantasy goblins, and they vanish
>like tears in rain when thwarted by the Doctor’s magical powers.
>
>All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a lot like
>Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change towards accepting the
>truly unbelievable as part of the stories. I’d hoped that trend - driven
>mainly by Moffat - had been damped down by Chibnall (one of the few
>positives of his era for me), but it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
>
>How do we feel about that?
>
>Disclaimer - none of the above was written by or researched using ChatGPT
>or any other AI crutch. It’s all my own work.
>

Well let's see if you get picked up!

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <xn0oihw8ragnfp2000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Last Doctor wrote:
>
>>
>> In “The Star Beast”, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to
>> generate defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that
>> can then be moved around by hand. A wheelchair can shoot rockets
>> without any annoying third law of motion kickback.
>>
>> In “Wild Blue Yonder”, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent
>> in the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped
>> deformation in a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short. Matter
>> appears and disappears out of nowhere as the aliens from beyond
>> space deform and change size randomly.
>>
>> In “The Giggle”, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into
>> balloons and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating
>> doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is
>> unable to turn his hand into a large catcher’s mitt … and one
>> individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART BY THE ARMS. Later,
>> the new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into
>> existence out of nothing.
>>
>> In “The Church on Ruby Road”, the Doctor emerges unscathed from
>> having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing
>> ships fly undetected through the skies of London manned by beings
>> who survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck -
>> an unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba
>> the Hutt’s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for
>> knowing any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren’t aliens
>> - they’re just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain
>> when thwarted by the Doctor’s magical powers.
>>
>> All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a
>> lot like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change
>> towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories.
>> I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped
>> down by Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but
>> it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
>>
>> How do we feel about that?
>
>
>There's a definite trend in modern 'Who' leaning towards more
>fantasy elements... the recent 2023 episodes are a prime example of
>that, as mentioned. But it has been there for years, RTD just seems
>to like it a bit more. Doctor Who has evolved in to that sort of
>show now. I don't blame it on the Disney influence as RTD is his own
>man with his own ideas, the Disney $$ just makes the fantasy look
>better!
>
>Some of it is stupid... banging the TARDIS with a hammer to knock a
>new one out for instance! The fantasy elements can also be an easy
>'way out' for the writer. But if the episodes are entertaining to
>watch I actually don't mind, as Doctor Who isn't written for 59 year
>old men!

Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <xn0oihw8ragnfp2000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> The Last Doctor wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In “The Star Beast”, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to
>>> generate defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that
>>> can then be moved around by hand. A wheelchair can shoot rockets
>>> without any annoying third law of motion kickback.
>>>
>>> In “Wild Blue Yonder”, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent
>>> in the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped
>>> deformation in a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short. Matter
>>> appears and disappears out of nowhere as the aliens from beyond
>>> space deform and change size randomly.
>>>
>>> In “The Giggle”, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into
>>> balloons and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating
>>> doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is
>>> unable to turn his hand into a large catcher’s mitt … and one
>>> individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART BY THE ARMS. Later,
>>> the new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into
>>> existence out of nothing.
>>>
>>> In “The Church on Ruby Road”, the Doctor emerges unscathed from
>>> having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing
>>> ships fly undetected through the skies of London manned by beings
>>> who survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck -
>>> an unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba
>>> the Hutt’s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for
>>> knowing any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren’t aliens
>>> - they’re just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain
>>> when thwarted by the Doctor’s magical powers.
>>>
>>> All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a
>>> lot like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change
>>> towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories.
>>> I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped
>>> down by Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but
>>> it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
>>>
>>> How do we feel about that?
>>
>>
>> There's a definite trend in modern 'Who' leaning towards more
>> fantasy elements... the recent 2023 episodes are a prime example of
>> that, as mentioned. But it has been there for years, RTD just seems
>> to like it a bit more. Doctor Who has evolved in to that sort of
>> show now. I don't blame it on the Disney influence as RTD is his own
>> man with his own ideas, the Disney $$ just makes the fantasy look
>> better!
>>
>> Some of it is stupid... banging the TARDIS with a hammer to knock a
>> new one out for instance! The fantasy elements can also be an easy
>> 'way out' for the writer. But if the episodes are entertaining to
>> watch I actually don't mind, as Doctor Who isn't written for 59 year
>> old men!
>
> Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!

Whether true or not, that is not germane to this conversation, Dave. The
Timeless Child did not cause “Fear Her”, “Night Terrors”, “The Doctor, The
Widow and the Wardrobe”, “Kill the Moon”, “Robot of Sherwood”, “In the
Forest of the Night”, nor, although they came afterwards, the 60th
anniversary episodes or the 2023 Christmas episode - all of which lean
heavily into overt fantasy and latterly, as per my thread title, Looney
Tunes logic (the Toymaker’s disappearing door is on the same level as a
tunnel entrance painted on a cliff face that Road Runner disappears into,
only to have Wile E Coyote run after him but run slap bang into solid
rock*, and as for bigeneration and the doubling of the TARDIS, these are
straight out of the animated cartoon playbook).

*and then, as he stands bemused in front of the fake tunnel, gets run down
by a train emerging from it.

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

On 2/25/2024 09:45, The Last Doctor wrote:

>>
>> Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
>
> Whether true or not, that is not germane to this conversation, Dave. The
> Timeless Child did not cause “Fear Her”, “Night Terrors”, “The Doctor, The
> Widow and the Wardrobe”, “Kill the Moon”, “Robot of Sherwood”, “In the
> Forest of the Night”, nor, although they came afterwards, the 60th
> anniversary episodes or the 2023 Christmas episode - all of which lean
> heavily into overt fantasy and latterly, as per my thread title, Looney
> Tunes logic (the Toymaker’s disappearing door is on the same level as a
> tunnel entrance painted on a cliff face that Road Runner disappears into,
> only to have Wile E Coyote run after him but run slap bang into solid
> rock*, and as for bigeneration and the doubling of the TARDIS, these are
> straight out of the animated cartoon playbook).
>
> *and then, as he stands bemused in front of the fake tunnel, gets run down
> by a train emerging from it.
>

Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything in
existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even need to be
Who related.

I agree, the show is much more fantasy now as opposed to sci-fi...to the
point there is almost no sci-fi left in it. And even if I can get some
entertainment out of the show now, it does bug me that what really drew
me to the show when I watched it (late) Sunday nights on the Chicago PBS
channel when I was 8 or 9 was I saw Jon Pertwee and/or Tom Baker
demonstrating to me how to solve problems, or get out of a sticky
situation by using my /brain/, and not using violence unless it was the
last, last resort.

--

Intelligence is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
--Carl Sagan

The Last Doctor let us know:

>
> All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and
> felt a lot like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear
> change towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of
> the stories. I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had
> been damped down by Chibnall (one of the few positives of
> his era for me), but it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
>
> How do we feel about that?
>

To be fair, the classic series had its share of fantasy stories too.
However, it usually tried to justify them either by setting them
outside the regular universe, where its rules didn’t apply (e.g.
Mind Robber, Warriors Gate) or by having the Doctor use some
unconvincing technobabble to deny the fantasy elements (e.g.
Dæmons, Planet of Evil) or both (e.g. Three Doctors, State of
Decay).

You might also argue that they were also less cartoonish and
more realistic. But that was probably just the lower budget and
primitive effects. Was the TARDIS breaking up in The Mind Robber
really less silly than duplicating itself in The Giggle?

--
solar penguin

On 25.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:

> In ?The Star Beast?, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to
> generate defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that can
> then be moved around by hand.

Maybe new and improved sonic screwdriver?

> A wheelchair can shoot rockets without any annoying third law of
> motion kickback.

That I could accept as special technology, even if that means one of
those make-weightless things from the Cyberman+Dalek incident in London
Torchwood tower had temporarily fixed the wheelchair to the floor
underneath. (Episode Army of Ghosts.)

> In ?Wild Blue Yonder?, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent in
> the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped deformation in
> a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short.

Well, it got stuck in all sorts of odd positions (though usually in the
ground) before. :)

> Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere as the aliens from beyond
> space deform and change size randomly.

Alien Space Magic. Oh wait, that's my router. ;P

Still, they were from beyond space, so had beyondy abilities. I can
accept that.

> In ?The Giggle?, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into
> balloons and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating
> doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is
> unable to turn his hand into alarge catcher?s mitt ? and one
> individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART BY THE ARMS. Later, the
> new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into
> existence out of nothing.

Oh crap, you're right!

> In ?The Church on Ruby Road?, the Doctor emerges unscathed from
> having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing
> ships fly undetected through the skies of London manned by beings who
> survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck - an
> unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba the
> Hutt?s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for knowing
> any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren?t aliens - they?re
> just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain when
> thwarted by the Doctor?s magical powers.

The goblins are beyond cartoon logic, like beyond space from cartoon,
right past fairy tale space, and plucked out of folklore next universe.
They just don't fit, without even some attempt at them being aliens, or
parrallel dimension little people from behind that boulder over there.
(Because someone accidentally walked around it three times, reciting the
right local rhymes, unlocking what had been closed away for decades.)

> All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a lot
> like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change towards
> accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories. I?d hoped
> that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped down by
> Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but it seems
> RTD is now tripling down on it.

Names again. I vaguely guess that's producers? What did that Moffat guy
do, which episodes stand out with this trend? (I'm rewatching the new
series right now, so I'll get there soon enough, I guess.)

> How do we feel about that?

Please go back to what it was! Like, what it was first time round with
Tennant!

> Disclaimer - none of the above was written by or researched using
> ChatGPT or any other AI crutch. It?s all my own work.

_Thumbsup_!

--

Mickmane

The Last Doctor let us know:

>Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere
> as the aliens from beyond space deform and change
> size randomly.
>

Here’s an actual example to illustrate my point:

Matter appears out of nowhere as Kerensky’s chicken grows
to adulthood instead of just starving to death faster. Pure cartoon
logic, but we don’t notice it because of
the technobabble
about time bubbles and because the special effects aren’t realistic
enough to show how unrealistic it is.

--
solar penguin

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oihw8ragnfp2000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > Some of it is stupid... banging the TARDIS with a hammer to
> > knock a new one out for instance! The fantasy elements can also
> > be an easy 'way out' for the writer. But if the episodes are
> > entertaining to watch I actually don't mind, as Doctor Who isn't
> > written for 59 year old men!
>
> Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!

I see it as the show evolving for modern audiences.

Hornplayer9599 wrote:

> On 2/25/2024 09:45, The Last Doctor wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
> >
> > Whether true or not, that is not germane to this conversation,
> > Dave. The Timeless Child did not cause “Fear Her”, “Night
> > Terrors”, “The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe”, “Kill the
> > Moon”, “Robot of Sherwood”, “In the Forest of the Night”, ...
> >
> > [SNIP]
>
> Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything in
> existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even need
> to be Who related.

Back when Jodie Whittaker was cast as the 13th Doctor Dave was
against a female Doctor... and that was before the "Timeless Child"
was even known about!

So being against things is just what Dave does. Give it time and
he'll move on and find something else to be like a broken record
about!

Blueshirt wrote:
> Hornplayer9599 wrote:
>
>> On 2/25/2024 09:45, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
>>>
>>> Whether true or not, that is not germane to this conversation,
>>> Dave. The Timeless Child did not cause “Fear Her”, “Night
>>> Terrors”, “The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe”, “Kill the
>>> Moon”, “Robot of Sherwood”, “In the Forest of the Night”, ...
>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>
>> Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything in
>> existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even need
>> to be Who related.
>
> Back when Jodie Whittaker was cast as the 13th Doctor Dave was
> against a female Doctor... and that was before the "Timeless Child"
> was even known about!
>
> So being against things is just what Dave does. Give it time and
> he'll move on and find something else to be like a broken record
> about!
>
well , i defeated you easily enough

In article <urfnbk$1u444$1@dont-email.me>,
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <xn0oihw8ragnfp2000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> The Last Doctor wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In “The Star Beast”, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to
>>>> generate defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that
>>>> can then be moved around by hand. A wheelchair can shoot rockets
>>>> without any annoying third law of motion kickback.
>>>>
>>>> In “Wild Blue Yonder”, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent
>>>> in the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped
>>>> deformation in a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short. Matter
>>>> appears and disappears out of nowhere as the aliens from beyond
>>>> space deform and change size randomly.
>>>>
>>>> In “The Giggle”, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into
>>>> balloons and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating
>>>> doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is
>>>> unable to turn his hand into a large catcher’s mitt … and one
>>>> individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART BY THE ARMS. Later,
>>>> the new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into
>>>> existence out of nothing.
>>>>
>>>> In “The Church on Ruby Road”, the Doctor emerges unscathed from
>>>> having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing
>>>> ships fly undetected through the skies of London manned by beings
>>>> who survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck -
>>>> an unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba
>>>> the Hutt’s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for
>>>> knowing any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren’t aliens
>>>> - they’re just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain
>>>> when thwarted by the Doctor’s magical powers.
>>>>
>>>> All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a
>>>> lot like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change
>>>> towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories.
>>>> I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped
>>>> down by Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but
>>>> it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
>>>>
>>>> How do we feel about that?
>>>
>>>
>>> There's a definite trend in modern 'Who' leaning towards more
>>> fantasy elements... the recent 2023 episodes are a prime example of
>>> that, as mentioned. But it has been there for years, RTD just seems
>>> to like it a bit more. Doctor Who has evolved in to that sort of
>>> show now. I don't blame it on the Disney influence as RTD is his own
>>> man with his own ideas, the Disney $$ just makes the fantasy look
>>> better!
>>>
>>> Some of it is stupid... banging the TARDIS with a hammer to knock a
>>> new one out for instance! The fantasy elements can also be an easy
>>> 'way out' for the writer. But if the episodes are entertaining to
>>> watch I actually don't mind, as Doctor Who isn't written for 59 year
>>> old men!
>>
>> Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
>
>Whether true or not, that is not germane to this conversation, Dave. The
>Timeless Child did not cause “Fear Her”, “Night Terrors”, “The
>Doctor, The
>Widow and the Wardrobe”, “Kill the Moon”, “Robot of Sherwood”,
>“In the
>Forest of the Night”, nor, although they came afterwards, the 60th
>anniversary episodes or the 2023 Christmas episode - all of which lean
>heavily into overt fantasy and latterly, as per my thread title, Looney
>Tunes logic (the Toymaker’s disappearing door is on the same level as a
>tunnel entrance painted on a cliff face that Road Runner disappears into,
>only to have Wile E Coyote run after him but run slap bang into solid
>rock*, and as for bigeneration and the doubling of the TARDIS, these are
>straight out of the animated cartoon playbook).
>
>*and then, as he stands bemused in front of the fake tunnel, gets run down
>by a train emerging from it.

Bye the other way around in destruction ...

>
>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <QMJCN.10420888$ee1.2203871@fx16.ams4>,
Hornplayer9599 <Hornplayer9599@aol.com> wrote:
>On 2/25/2024 09:45, The Last Doctor wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
>>
>> Whether true or not, that is not germane to this conversation, Dave. The
>> Timeless Child did not cause “Fear Her”, “Night Terrors”,
>“The Doctor, The
>> Widow and the Wardrobe”, “Kill the Moon”, “Robot of
>Sherwood”, “In the
>> Forest of the Night”, nor, although they came afterwards, the 60th
>> anniversary episodes or the 2023 Christmas episode - all of which lean
>> heavily into overt fantasy and latterly, as per my thread title, Looney
>> Tunes logic (the Toymaker’s disappearing door is on the same level as a
>> tunnel entrance painted on a cliff face that Road Runner disappears into,
>> only to have Wile E Coyote run after him but run slap bang into solid
>> rock*, and as for bigeneration and the doubling of the TARDIS, these are
>> straight out of the animated cartoon playbook).
>>
>> *and then, as he stands bemused in front of the fake tunnel, gets run down
>> by a train emerging from it.
>>
>
>Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything in
>existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even need to be
>Who related.
>
>I agree, the show is much more fantasy now as opposed to sci-fi...to the
>point there is almost no sci-fi left in it. And even if I can get some
>entertainment out of the show now, it does bug me that what really drew
>me to the show when I watched it (late) Sunday nights on the Chicago PBS
>channel when I was 8 or 9 was I saw Jon Pertwee and/or Tom Baker
>demonstrating to me how to solve problems, or get out of a sticky
>situation by using my /brain/, and not using violence unless it was the
>last, last resort.
>

Are you AGA in disguise?

>--
>
>Intelligence is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
>--Carl Sagan
>

--
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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <urfv1v$1vuen$1@dont-email.me>,
solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>The Last Doctor let us know:
>
>>
>> All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and
>> felt a lot like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear
>> change towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of
>> the stories. I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had
>> been damped down by Chibnall (one of the few positives of
>> his era for me), but it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
>>
>> How do we feel about that?
>>
>
>To be fair, the classic series had its share of fantasy stories too.
>However, it usually tried to justify them either by setting them
>outside the regular universe, where its rules didn’t apply (e.g.
>Mind Robber, Warriors Gate) or by having the Doctor use some
>unconvincing technobabble to deny the fantasy elements (e.g.
>Dæmons, Planet of Evil) or both (e.g. Three Doctors, State of
>Decay).
>
>You might also argue that they were also less cartoonish and
>more realistic. But that was probably just the lower budget and
>primitive effects. Was the TARDIS breaking up in The Mind Robber
>really less silly than duplicating itself in The Giggle?
>

Eek!!!

>--
>solar penguin

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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <GZXRfFnLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 25.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>
>> In ?The Star Beast?, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to
>> generate defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that can
>> then be moved around by hand.
>
>Maybe new and improved sonic screwdriver?
>
>> A wheelchair can shoot rockets without any annoying third law of
>> motion kickback.
>
>That I could accept as special technology, even if that means one of
>those make-weightless things from the Cyberman+Dalek incident in London
>Torchwood tower had temporarily fixed the wheelchair to the floor
>underneath. (Episode Army of Ghosts.)
>
>> In ?Wild Blue Yonder?, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent in
>> the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped deformation in
>> a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short.
>
>Well, it got stuck in all sorts of odd positions (though usually in the
>ground) before. :)
>
>> Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere as the aliens from beyond
>> space deform and change size randomly.
>
>Alien Space Magic. Oh wait, that's my router. ;P
>
>Still, they were from beyond space, so had beyondy abilities. I can
>accept that.
>
>> In ?The Giggle?, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into
>> balloons and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating
>> doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is
>> unable to turn his hand into alarge catcher?s mitt ? and one
>> individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART BY THE ARMS. Later, the
>> new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into
>> existence out of nothing.
>
>Oh crap, you're right!
>
>> In ?The Church on Ruby Road?, the Doctor emerges unscathed from
>> having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing
>> ships fly undetected through the skies of London manned by beings who
>> survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck - an
>> unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba the
>> Hutt?s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for knowing
>> any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren?t aliens - they?re
>> just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain when
>> thwarted by the Doctor?s magical powers.
>
>The goblins are beyond cartoon logic, like beyond space from cartoon,
>right past fairy tale space, and plucked out of folklore next universe.
>They just don't fit, without even some attempt at them being aliens, or
>parrallel dimension little people from behind that boulder over there.
>(Because someone accidentally walked around it three times, reciting the
>right local rhymes, unlocking what had been closed away for decades.)
>
>> All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a lot
>> like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change towards
>> accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories. I?d hoped
>> that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped down by
>> Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but it seems
>> RTD is now tripling down on it.
>
>Names again. I vaguely guess that's producers? What did that Moffat guy
>do, which episodes stand out with this trend? (I'm rewatching the new
>series right now, so I'll get there soon enough, I guess.)
>
>> How do we feel about that?
>
>Please go back to what it was! Like, what it was first time round with
>Tennant!
>
>> Disclaimer - none of the above was written by or researched using
>> ChatGPT or any other AI crutch. It?s all my own work.
>
>_Thumbsup_!
>

And then ....

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <urg0gd$209t3$1@dont-email.me>,
solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>The Last Doctor let us know:
>
>>Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere
>> as the aliens from beyond space deform and change
>> size randomly.
>>
>
>Here’s an actual example to illustrate my point:
>
>Matter appears out of nowhere as Kerensky’s chicken grows
>to adulthood instead of just starving to death faster. Pure cartoon
>logic, but we don’t notice it because of
>the technobabble
>about time bubbles and because the special effects aren’t realistic
>enough to show how unrealistic it is.
>

What about time acceleration!
>--
>solar penguin

--
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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <xn0oii5zcatqlvj006@reader.xsnews.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0oihw8ragnfp2000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> >
>> > Some of it is stupid... banging the TARDIS with a hammer to
>> > knock a new one out for instance! The fantasy elements can also
>> > be an easy 'way out' for the writer. But if the episodes are
>> > entertaining to watch I actually don't mind, as Doctor Who isn't
>> > written for 59 year old men!
>>
>> Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
>
>I see it as the show evolving for modern audiences.

Sideways evolution.
--
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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <xn0oii65iatziyk007@reader.xsnews.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>Hornplayer9599 wrote:
>
>> On 2/25/2024 09:45, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>
>> > >
>> > > Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
>> >
>> > Whether true or not, that is not germane to this conversation,
>> > Dave. The Timeless Child did not cause “Fear Her”, “Night
>> > Terrors”, “The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe”, “Kill the
>> > Moon”, “Robot of Sherwood”, “In the Forest of the Night”, ...
>> >
>> > [SNIP]
>>
>> Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything in
>> existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even need
>> to be Who related.
>
>Back when Jodie Whittaker was cast as the 13th Doctor Dave was
>against a female Doctor... and that was before the "Timeless Child"
>was even known about!
>
>So being against things is just what Dave does. Give it time and
>he'll move on and find something else to be like a broken record
>about!

TYhe Whole Chibnall Era was a botch!
--
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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <W6qcnSLbVrBDAkb4nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>,
% <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote:
>Blueshirt wrote:
>> Hornplayer9599 wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/25/2024 09:45, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
>>>>
>>>> Whether true or not, that is not germane to this conversation,
>>>> Dave. The Timeless Child did not cause “Fear Her”, “Night
>>>> Terrors”, “The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe”, “Kill the
>>>> Moon”, “Robot of Sherwood”, “In the Forest of the Night”, ...
>>>>
>>>> [SNIP]
>>>
>>> Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything in
>>> existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even need
>>> to be Who related.
>>
>> Back when Jodie Whittaker was cast as the 13th Doctor Dave was
>> against a female Doctor... and that was before the "Timeless Child"
>> was even known about!
>>
>> So being against things is just what Dave does. Give it time and
>> he'll move on and find something else to be like a broken record
>> about!
>>
>well , i defeated you easily enough

Good one!
--
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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oii65iatziyk007@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Hornplayer9599 wrote:
> >>
> >> Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything
> >> in existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even
> >> need to be Who related.
> >
> > Back when Jodie Whittaker was cast as the 13th Doctor Dave was
> > against a female Doctor... and that was before the "Timeless
> > Child" was even known about!
> >
> > So being against things is just what Dave does. Give it time and
> > he'll move on and find something else to be like a broken record
> > about!
>
> TYhe Whole Chibnall Era was a botch!

In other words... you didn't like a female being cast as the Doctor
so the whole Chris Chibnall era was a botch!

Blueshirt wrote:
> The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0oii65iatziyk007@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> Hornplayer9599 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything
>>>> in existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even
>>>> need to be Who related.
>>>
>>> Back when Jodie Whittaker was cast as the 13th Doctor Dave was
>>> against a female Doctor... and that was before the "Timeless
>>> Child" was even known about!
>>>
>>> So being against things is just what Dave does. Give it time and
>>> he'll move on and find something else to be like a broken record
>>> about!
>>
>> TYhe Whole Chibnall Era was a botch!
>
> In other words... you didn't like a female being cast as the Doctor
> so the whole Chris Chibnall era was a botch!
>

TYhe , LOL

Binky bleated:

> In article <urg0gd$209t3$1@dont-email.me>,
> solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Matter appears out of nowhere as Kerensky’s chicken grows
>> to adulthood instead of just starving to death faster. Pure cartoon
>> logic, but we don’t notice it because of the technobabble
>> about time bubbles and because the special effects aren’t realistic
>> enough to show how unrealistic it is.
>>
>
> What about time acceleration!

That should’ve just allowed the chicken to starve faster (and
suffocate faster if oxygen can’t enter the accelerated
time bubble)

But apparently accelerating time means chickens no longer need
to eat or breathe!

Pure cartoon logic!

--
solar penguin

In article <xn0oii6thauy75w00b@reader.xsnews.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0oii65iatziyk007@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> > Hornplayer9599 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Don't confuse Dave with the word "germane". To him everything
>> >> in existence can be blamed on the Timeless Child; doesn't even
>> >> need to be Who related.
>> >
>> > Back when Jodie Whittaker was cast as the 13th Doctor Dave was
>> > against a female Doctor... and that was before the "Timeless
>> > Child" was even known about!
>> >
>> > So being against things is just what Dave does. Give it time and
>> > he'll move on and find something else to be like a broken record
>> > about!
>>
>> TYhe Whole Chibnall Era was a botch!
>
>In other words... you didn't like a female being cast as the Doctor
>so the whole Chris Chibnall era was a botch!

Nope! The Timelss Child was so anti-Doctor Who that it usurped
Doctor Who!
--
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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown

In article <urg9gb$22ckp$1@dont-email.me>,
solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Binky bleated:
>
>> In article <urg0gd$209t3$1@dont-email.me>,
>> solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Matter appears out of nowhere as Kerensky’s chicken grows
>>> to adulthood instead of just starving to death faster. Pure cartoon
>>> logic, but we don’t notice it because of the technobabble
>>> about time bubbles and because the special effects aren’t realistic
>>> enough to show how unrealistic it is.
>>>
>>
>> What about time acceleration!
>
>That should’ve just allowed the chicken to starve faster (and
>suffocate faster if oxygen can’t enter the accelerated
>time bubble)
>
>But apparently accelerating time means chickens no longer need
>to eat or breathe!
>
>Pure cartoon logic!
>

Are you like it!

>--
>solar penguin

--
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What worth the power of law that won't stop lawlessness? -unknown