On 4/4/2024 10:29 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>> The sad thing is you can't always tell what the dog is going to do.
>
> You pay attention to the dog's ears, his head position, and his tail.
> They make it quite clear. Also, dogs pay attention TO YOU, so show
> leadership by standing tall with a proper stride. Don't approach the dog
> in a way he might feel threatened, like with your from above trying to
> pet the top of his head. If he's willing to be petted, he'll let you but
> do it from below eye level on his chest.
>
> Some dogs, like herding dogs, might be aggressive with their mouths,
> like grabbing wrists or ankles, but that's trying to dominate and not
> trying to kill. A dog that attacks the neck or face is quite dangerous.
>
>> I run into dogs being walked by their owners all the time and most dogs
>> are just happy to see anyone but I've run into a few who seemed like
>> they wanted some attention as they came over to me as I was walking by
>> but clearly didn't actually want to be touched. That's taught me to
>> always be cautious when going to pet a dog even though the owner is
>> right there so I'll keep my fingers closed in my hand just in case the
>> dog wants to take a nip.
>
> Right. NEVER offer dog a finger.
>
Generally you want to put your hand out, back of the hand towards the
dog so it can smell you and let it come to you if it wants to be
friendly. Don't make a fist, dogs are smart enough to recognize that as
being aggressive.

>> That said I can't imagine why the guy is running around with a gun. If
>> he's just worried about pets attacking him a gun is massive overkill
>> when something like pepper spray would do the job and not cause
>> permanent harm or death.

If he's worried about being attacked by dogs he's in the wrong job.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 4/4/24 10:28 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 4/4/2024 6:08 AM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 4/3/24 1:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 4/3/2024 5:59 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>> On 4/3/24 4:38 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:45:56 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13261563/Angie-Harmon-reveals-Instacart-driver-shot-KILLED-dogs.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The actress Angie Harmon shared the devastating news that one of
>>>>>>> her family's
>>>>>> dogs was shot and killed by an InstaCart delivery person over the
>>>>>> Easter
>>>>>> weekend. The 51-year-old former LAW & ORDER star revealed on
>>>>>> Instagram on
>>>>>> Monday that her dog Oliver had been killed by the delivery person
>>>>>> after he
>>>>>> dropped off groceries to their home in Charlotte, North Carolina.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "This Easter weekend a man delivering groceries for InstaCart
>>>>>>> shot & killed
>>>>>> our precious Oliver," she wrote, alongside several sweet photos of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> deceased pet. "He got out of his car, delivered the food & THEN
>>>>>> shot our
>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>> Our Ring camera was charging in the house, which he saw & then
>>>>>> knew he
>>>>>> wasn’t
>>>>>> being recorded. The police let him go because he claimed
>>>>>> self-defense. He
>>>>>> did
>>>>>> not have a scratch or bite on him nor were his pants torn. He was
>>>>>> shopping
>>>>>> under a woman's identity named Merle. He shot our dog with my
>>>>>> daughters and
>>>>>> myself at home and just kept saying, "Yeah, I shot your dog. Yeah,
>>>>>> I did."
>>>>>> We
>>>>>> are completely traumatized and beyond devastated at the loss of
>>>>>> our beloved
>>>>>> boy and family member."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> InstaCart responded to Harmon's claims with a statement to
>>>>>>> DailyMail.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We were deeply saddened and disturbed to hear about this
>>>>>>> incident. We have no
>>>>>> tolerance for violence of any kind and the shopper account was
>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>> suspended from our platform," it said. "We have been in direct
>>>>>> contact with
>>>>>> the customer and are cooperating with law enforcement on their
>>>>>> investigation."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In an update from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department to
>>>>>>> TMZ, law
>>>>>> enforcement officials confirmed that the InstaCart driver claimed
>>>>>> he shot
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> dog in self-defense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The investigation revealed that a delivery driver arrived at the
>>>>>>> residence to
>>>>>> deliver consumable goods. The driver told officers that a dog
>>>>>> attacked him
>>>>>> while he was at the residence and that he defended himself by
>>>>>> firing a
>>>>>> single
>>>>>> gunshot, striking and mortally wounding the dog. Another dog was
>>>>>> present at
>>>>>> the residence but did not attack."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They added that the department's Animal Control division was also
>>>>>>> involved in
>>>>>> the response to the shooting but the department confirmed that no
>>>>>> charges
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> been filed against the driver at this time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The police department added that it was not seeking out any other
>>>>>>> individuals
>>>>>> in response to the shooting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve looked at the postings online and have some questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ring doorbells are rechargeable? You can just stick them up to the
>>>>>> front of
>>>>>> the house and move them in and out? How come they don’t get stolen
>>>>>> all the
>>>>>> time?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, that has to be the case because most of them (all that I see
>>>>> around here) are just stuck to the door so there's no power
>>>>> connection. I haven't checked but assumed that the ring is locked to
>>>>> the case until you use the app to unlock the ring device.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The groceries delivered Were a very small package left at the
>>>>>> front door. I
>>>>>> thought from the story presented he/she/it must’ve come inside to
>>>>>> see that
>>>>>> her ring doorbell was recharging. So I’m not sure how he/she/it knew.
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume the actual device was missing (since it was inside
>>>>> recharging) so the easier way to put it is that the driver saw that
>>>>> there was no camera. He may not even have known they had a Ring device
>>>>> unless he delivered items there before.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ring is currently heavily advertising that every big moment in
>>>>>> your life
>>>>>> happens on your front porch and is captured by your ring doorbell
>>>>>> video
>>>>>> which is just galactically stupid but will they continue this
>>>>>> campaign?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder what Instacart and the local police policy is on Instacart,
>>>>>> drivers carrying weapons, potentially concealed?
>>>>>
>>>>> My guess is just the what ever the local laws are.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They won’t do anything to he/she/it. PETA goes to peoples homes
>>>>>> and steals
>>>>>> their animals and kills them because they don’t think animals
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>> pets and it’s just a small fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, without a video of what the guy did I don't expect anything to
>>>>> happen to him.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You're kidding, right?  Without him having proof of self defense,
>>>> he's going to get his ass sued off.
>>>>
>>>> As far as criminal charges go, that'll depend on what, if anything,
>>>> he's charged with - as well as his past record, if he has one.
>>>
>>> I don't want to believe there are people who'd shoot a dog with zero
>>> provocation, and I'm guessing a jury might not want to either.
>>
>> You're confused.  Try "not enough provocation."  A dog growling isn't
>> reason to execute it.
>
> "Not enough" is much more subjective than "zero".

Is a dog growling zero provaction? How about sticking to the real
world? If the guy shot a dog that wasn't even taking notice of him then
there's mental illness to consider. Life is complicated.

On 4/5/24 4:55 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 4/4/2024 10:29 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> . . .
>>
>>> The sad thing is you can't always tell what the dog is going to do.
>>
>> You pay attention to the dog's ears, his head position, and his tail.
>> They make it quite clear. Also, dogs pay attention TO YOU, so show
>> leadership by standing tall with a proper stride. Don't approach the dog
>> in a way he might feel threatened, like with your from above trying to
>> pet the top of his head. If he's willing to be petted, he'll let you but
>> do it from below eye level on his chest.
>>
>> Some dogs, like herding dogs, might be aggressive with their mouths,
>> like grabbing wrists or ankles, but that's trying to dominate and not
>> trying to kill. A dog that attacks the neck or face is quite dangerous.
>>
>>> I run into dogs being walked by their owners all the time and most dogs
>>> are just happy to see anyone but I've run into a few who seemed like
>>> they wanted some attention as they came over to me as I was walking by
>>> but clearly didn't actually want to be touched. That's taught me to
>>> always be cautious when going to pet a dog even though the owner is
>>> right there so I'll keep my fingers closed in my hand just in case the
>>> dog wants to take a nip.
>>
>> Right. NEVER offer dog a finger.
>>
> Generally you want to put your hand out, back of the hand towards the
> dog so it can smell you and let it come to you if it wants to be
> friendly.  Don't make a fist, dogs are smart enough to recognize that as
> being aggressive.
>
>>> That said I can't imagine why the guy is running around with a gun. If
>>> he's just worried about pets attacking him a gun is massive overkill
>>> when something like pepper spray would do the job and not cause
>>> permanent harm or death.
>
> If he's worried about being attacked by dogs he's in the wrong job.
>

Proper response is to ignore the dog. Don't look at it, don't attempt
to touch it or go up to it.

If the dog wants to be friendly, it will come up to you. You don't make
eye contact unless they want to initiate contact.

This is the preferred method of approaching strange dogs. You don't.
Tail wagging doesn't mean friendly, it means excitement.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

On 4/4/24 10:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 4/4/2024 8:06 PM, FPP wrote:
>> On 4/4/24 11:31 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 4/4/2024 6:51 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>> On 4/3/24 2:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 4/3/2024 5:59 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/3/24 4:38 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:45:56 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13261563/Angie-Harmon-reveals-Instacart-driver-shot-KILLED-dogs.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The actress Angie Harmon shared the devastating news that one
>>>>>>>>> of her family's
>>>>>>>> dogs was shot and killed by an InstaCart delivery person over
>>>>>>>> the Easter
>>>>>>>> weekend. The 51-year-old former LAW & ORDER star revealed on
>>>>>>>> Instagram on
>>>>>>>> Monday that her dog Oliver had been killed by the delivery
>>>>>>>> person after he
>>>>>>>> dropped off groceries to their home in Charlotte, North Carolina.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "This Easter weekend a man delivering groceries for InstaCart
>>>>>>>>> shot & killed
>>>>>>>> our precious Oliver," she wrote, alongside several sweet photos
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> deceased pet. "He got out of his car, delivered the food & THEN
>>>>>>>> shot our
>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>> Our Ring camera was charging in the house, which he saw & then
>>>>>>>> knew he
>>>>>>>> wasn’t
>>>>>>>> being recorded. The police let him go because he claimed
>>>>>>>> self-defense. He
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> not have a scratch or bite on him nor were his pants torn. He
>>>>>>>> was shopping
>>>>>>>> under a woman's identity named Merle. He shot our dog with my
>>>>>>>> daughters and
>>>>>>>> myself at home and just kept saying, "Yeah, I shot your dog.
>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did."
>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>> are completely traumatized and beyond devastated at the loss of
>>>>>>>> our beloved
>>>>>>>> boy and family member."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> InstaCart responded to Harmon's claims with a statement to
>>>>>>>>> DailyMail.com:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We were deeply saddened and disturbed to hear about this
>>>>>>>>> incident. We have no
>>>>>>>> tolerance for violence of any kind and the shopper account was
>>>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>>>> suspended from our platform," it said. "We have been in direct
>>>>>>>> contact with
>>>>>>>> the customer and are cooperating with law enforcement on their
>>>>>>>> investigation."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In an update from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department
>>>>>>>>> to TMZ, law
>>>>>>>> enforcement officials confirmed that the InstaCart driver
>>>>>>>> claimed he shot
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> dog in self-defense.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The investigation revealed that a delivery driver arrived at
>>>>>>>>> the residence to
>>>>>>>> deliver consumable goods. The driver told officers that a dog
>>>>>>>> attacked him
>>>>>>>> while he was at the residence and that he defended himself by
>>>>>>>> firing a
>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>> gunshot, striking and mortally wounding the dog. Another dog was
>>>>>>>> present at
>>>>>>>> the residence but did not attack."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They added that the department's Animal Control division was
>>>>>>>>> also involved in
>>>>>>>> the response to the shooting but the department confirmed that
>>>>>>>> no charges
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> been filed against the driver at this time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The police department added that it was not seeking out any
>>>>>>>>> other individuals
>>>>>>>> in response to the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I’ve looked at the postings online and have some questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ring doorbells are rechargeable? You can just stick them up to
>>>>>>>> the front of
>>>>>>>> the house and move them in and out? How come they don’t get
>>>>>>>> stolen all the
>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, that has to be the case because most of them (all that I see
>>>>>>> around here) are just stuck to the door so there's no power
>>>>>>> connection. I haven't checked but assumed that the ring is locked to
>>>>>>> the case until you use the app to unlock the ring device.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The groceries delivered Were a very small package left at the
>>>>>>>> front door. I
>>>>>>>> thought from the story presented he/she/it must’ve come inside
>>>>>>>> to see that
>>>>>>>> her ring doorbell was recharging. So I’m not sure how he/she/it
>>>>>>>> knew.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I assume the actual device was missing (since it was inside
>>>>>>> recharging) so the easier way to put it is that the driver saw that
>>>>>>> there was no camera. He may not even have known they had a Ring
>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>> unless he delivered items there before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ring is currently heavily advertising that every big moment in
>>>>>>>> your life
>>>>>>>> happens on your front porch and is captured by your ring
>>>>>>>> doorbell video
>>>>>>>> which is just galactically stupid but will they continue this
>>>>>>>> campaign?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder what Instacart and the local police policy is on
>>>>>>>> Instacart,
>>>>>>>> drivers carrying weapons, potentially concealed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My guess is just the what ever the local laws are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They won’t do anything to he/she/it. PETA goes to peoples homes
>>>>>>>> and steals
>>>>>>>> their animals and kills them because they don’t think animals
>>>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>>> pets and it’s just a small fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, without a video of what the guy did I don't expect anything to
>>>>>>> happen to him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're kidding, right?  Without him having proof of self defense,
>>>>>> he's going to get his ass sued off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as criminal charges go, that'll depend on what, if
>>>>>> anything, he's charged with - as well as his past record, if he
>>>>>> has one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't want to believe there are people who'd shoot a dog with
>>>>> zero provocation, and I'm guessing a jury might not want to either.
>>>>
>>>> Wow, pig.  So you've never been on a jury before, have you?
>>>
>>> No, I fail the voir dire.  But in this instance it's the word of the
>>> victim and only witness against the owners' speculative "certainty".
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The guy doing the shooting is the one who needs to show his reason for
>> shooting in the first place.
>>
>> You don't want to believe that people treat animals badly?  Do you
>> live under a rock?
>
> I couldn't convict the guy based simply on my angry suspicions.
>
>

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 4/4/2024 10:29 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

>>>>. . .

>>>The sad thing is you can't always tell what the dog is going to do.

>>You pay attention to the dog's ears, his head position, and his tail.
>>They make it quite clear. Also, dogs pay attention TO YOU, so show
>>leadership by standing tall with a proper stride. Don't approach the dog
>>in a way he might feel threatened, like with your from above trying to
>>pet the top of his head. If he's willing to be petted, he'll let you but
>>do it from below eye level on his chest.

>>Some dogs, like herding dogs, might be aggressive with their mouths,
>>like grabbing wrists or ankles, but that's trying to dominate and not
>>trying to kill. A dog that attacks the neck or face is quite dangerous.

>>>I run into dogs being walked by their owners all the time and most dogs
>>>are just happy to see anyone but I've run into a few who seemed like
>>>they wanted some attention as they came over to me as I was walking by
>>>but clearly didn't actually want to be touched. That's taught me to
>>>always be cautious when going to pet a dog even though the owner is
>>>right there so I'll keep my fingers closed in my hand just in case the
>>>dog wants to take a nip.

>>Right. NEVER offer dog a finger.

>Generally you want to put your hand out, back of the hand towards the
>dog so it can smell you and let it come to you if it wants to be
>friendly. Don't make a fist, dogs are smart enough to recognize that as
>being aggressive.

Yes.

Barbara Woodhouse was against letting the dog sniff the back of the hand
approaching from the front, as that's not enough for the dog not to
perceive a threat. She recommended approaching from the side as the dog
can get a better look at you. As their eyes are on either side of their
snouts, they never look straight ahead with both eyes, something people
fail to understand.

>>>. . .

On 4/5/2024 9:37 AM, FPP wrote:
> On 4/4/24 10:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 4/4/2024 8:06 PM, FPP wrote:
>>> On 4/4/24 11:31 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>> On 4/4/2024 6:51 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>> On 4/3/24 2:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 5:59 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 4:38 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:45:56 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13261563/Angie-Harmon-reveals-Instacart-driver-shot-KILLED-dogs.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The actress Angie Harmon shared the devastating news that one
>>>>>>>>>> of her family's
>>>>>>>>> dogs was shot and killed by an InstaCart delivery person over
>>>>>>>>> the Easter
>>>>>>>>> weekend. The 51-year-old former LAW & ORDER star revealed on
>>>>>>>>> Instagram on
>>>>>>>>> Monday that her dog Oliver had been killed by the delivery
>>>>>>>>> person after he
>>>>>>>>> dropped off groceries to their home in Charlotte, North Carolina.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "This Easter weekend a man delivering groceries for InstaCart
>>>>>>>>>> shot & killed
>>>>>>>>> our precious Oliver," she wrote, alongside several sweet photos
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> deceased pet. "He got out of his car, delivered the food & THEN
>>>>>>>>> shot our
>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>> Our Ring camera was charging in the house, which he saw & then
>>>>>>>>> knew he
>>>>>>>>> wasn’t
>>>>>>>>> being recorded. The police let him go because he claimed
>>>>>>>>> self-defense. He
>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>> not have a scratch or bite on him nor were his pants torn. He
>>>>>>>>> was shopping
>>>>>>>>> under a woman's identity named Merle. He shot our dog with my
>>>>>>>>> daughters and
>>>>>>>>> myself at home and just kept saying, "Yeah, I shot your dog.
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did."
>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>> are completely traumatized and beyond devastated at the loss of
>>>>>>>>> our beloved
>>>>>>>>> boy and family member."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart responded to Harmon's claims with a statement to
>>>>>>>>>> DailyMail.com:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "We were deeply saddened and disturbed to hear about this
>>>>>>>>>> incident. We have no
>>>>>>>>> tolerance for violence of any kind and the shopper account was
>>>>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>>>>> suspended from our platform," it said. "We have been in direct
>>>>>>>>> contact with
>>>>>>>>> the customer and are cooperating with law enforcement on their
>>>>>>>>> investigation."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In an update from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department
>>>>>>>>>> to TMZ, law
>>>>>>>>> enforcement officials confirmed that the InstaCart driver
>>>>>>>>> claimed he shot
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> dog in self-defense.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "The investigation revealed that a delivery driver arrived at
>>>>>>>>>> the residence to
>>>>>>>>> deliver consumable goods. The driver told officers that a dog
>>>>>>>>> attacked him
>>>>>>>>> while he was at the residence and that he defended himself by
>>>>>>>>> firing a
>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>> gunshot, striking and mortally wounding the dog. Another dog
>>>>>>>>> was present at
>>>>>>>>> the residence but did not attack."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They added that the department's Animal Control division was
>>>>>>>>>> also involved in
>>>>>>>>> the response to the shooting but the department confirmed that
>>>>>>>>> no charges
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> been filed against the driver at this time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The police department added that it was not seeking out any
>>>>>>>>>> other individuals
>>>>>>>>> in response to the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I’ve looked at the postings online and have some questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ring doorbells are rechargeable? You can just stick them up to
>>>>>>>>> the front of
>>>>>>>>> the house and move them in and out? How come they don’t get
>>>>>>>>> stolen all the
>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, that has to be the case because most of them (all that I see
>>>>>>>> around here) are just stuck to the door so there's no power
>>>>>>>> connection. I haven't checked but assumed that the ring is
>>>>>>>> locked to
>>>>>>>> the case until you use the app to unlock the ring device.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The groceries delivered Were a very small package left at the
>>>>>>>>> front door. I
>>>>>>>>> thought from the story presented he/she/it must’ve come inside
>>>>>>>>> to see that
>>>>>>>>> her ring doorbell was recharging. So I’m not sure how he/she/it
>>>>>>>>> knew.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I assume the actual device was missing (since it was inside
>>>>>>>> recharging) so the easier way to put it is that the driver saw that
>>>>>>>> there was no camera. He may not even have known they had a Ring
>>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>>> unless he delivered items there before.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ring is currently heavily advertising that every big moment in
>>>>>>>>> your life
>>>>>>>>> happens on your front porch and is captured by your ring
>>>>>>>>> doorbell video
>>>>>>>>> which is just galactically stupid but will they continue this
>>>>>>>>> campaign?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder what Instacart and the local police policy is on
>>>>>>>>> Instacart,
>>>>>>>>> drivers carrying weapons, potentially concealed?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My guess is just the what ever the local laws are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They won’t do anything to he/she/it. PETA goes to peoples homes
>>>>>>>>> and steals
>>>>>>>>> their animals and kills them because they don’t think animals
>>>>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>>>> pets and it’s just a small fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, without a video of what the guy did I don't expect
>>>>>>>> anything to
>>>>>>>> happen to him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're kidding, right?  Without him having proof of self defense,
>>>>>>> he's going to get his ass sued off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as criminal charges go, that'll depend on what, if
>>>>>>> anything, he's charged with - as well as his past record, if he
>>>>>>> has one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't want to believe there are people who'd shoot a dog with
>>>>>> zero provocation, and I'm guessing a jury might not want to either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow, pig.  So you've never been on a jury before, have you?
>>>>
>>>> No, I fail the voir dire.  But in this instance it's the word of the
>>>> victim and only witness against the owners' speculative "certainty".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The guy doing the shooting is the one who needs to show his reason
>>> for shooting in the first place.
>>>
>>> You don't want to believe that people treat animals badly?  Do you
>>> live under a rock?
>>
>> I couldn't convict the guy based simply on my angry suspicions.
>>
>>
>
> What provocation justifies killing an animal?  Because unless there was
> some kind of justification, he shot a dog in the dog's own home.
>
> You condone abusing animals that haven't done anything to warrant it?

On 4/5/2024 2:05 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 4/4/2024 10:29 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> . . .
>
>>>> The sad thing is you can't always tell what the dog is going to do.
>
>>> You pay attention to the dog's ears, his head position, and his tail.
>>> They make it quite clear. Also, dogs pay attention TO YOU, so show
>>> leadership by standing tall with a proper stride. Don't approach the dog
>>> in a way he might feel threatened, like with your from above trying to
>>> pet the top of his head. If he's willing to be petted, he'll let you but
>>> do it from below eye level on his chest.
>
>>> Some dogs, like herding dogs, might be aggressive with their mouths,
>>> like grabbing wrists or ankles, but that's trying to dominate and not
>>> trying to kill. A dog that attacks the neck or face is quite dangerous.
>
>>>> I run into dogs being walked by their owners all the time and most dogs
>>>> are just happy to see anyone but I've run into a few who seemed like
>>>> they wanted some attention as they came over to me as I was walking by
>>>> but clearly didn't actually want to be touched. That's taught me to
>>>> always be cautious when going to pet a dog even though the owner is
>>>> right there so I'll keep my fingers closed in my hand just in case the
>>>> dog wants to take a nip.
>
>>> Right. NEVER offer dog a finger.
>
>> Generally you want to put your hand out, back of the hand towards the
>> dog so it can smell you and let it come to you if it wants to be
>> friendly. Don't make a fist, dogs are smart enough to recognize that as
>> being aggressive.
>
> Yes.
>
> Barbara Woodhouse was against letting the dog sniff the back of the hand
> approaching from the front, as that's not enough for the dog not to
> perceive a threat. She recommended approaching from the side as the dog
> can get a better look at you. As their eyes are on either side of their
> snouts, they never look straight ahead with both eyes, something people
> fail to understand.
>
>>>> . . .

If they don't look straight ahead with both eyes, then they don't see
parallax 3D ...which I'm not prepared to accept, particularly since my
dog watches me intently with both eyes, face-on.

On 4/5/2024 1:23 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 4/5/2024 2:05 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/4/2024 10:29 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> . . .
>>
>>>>> The sad thing is you can't always tell what the dog is going to do.
>>
>>>> You pay attention to the dog's ears, his head position, and his tail.
>>>> They make it quite clear. Also, dogs pay attention TO YOU, so show
>>>> leadership by standing tall with a proper stride. Don't approach the
>>>> dog
>>>> in a way he might feel threatened, like with your from above trying to
>>>> pet the top of his head. If he's willing to be petted, he'll let you
>>>> but
>>>> do it from below eye level on his chest.
>>
>>>> Some dogs, like herding dogs, might be aggressive with their mouths,
>>>> like grabbing wrists or ankles, but that's trying to dominate and not
>>>> trying to kill. A dog that attacks the neck or face is quite dangerous.
>>
>>>>> I run into dogs being walked by their owners all the time and most
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> are just happy to see anyone but I've run into a few who seemed like
>>>>> they wanted some attention as they came over to me as I was walking by
>>>>> but clearly didn't actually want to be touched. That's taught me to
>>>>> always be cautious when going to pet a dog even though the owner is
>>>>> right there so I'll keep my fingers closed in my hand just in case the
>>>>> dog wants to take a nip.
>>
>>>> Right. NEVER offer dog a finger.
>>
>>> Generally you want to put your hand out, back of the hand towards the
>>> dog so it can smell you and let it come to you if it wants to be
>>> friendly.  Don't make a fist, dogs are smart enough to recognize that as
>>> being aggressive.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> Barbara Woodhouse was against letting the dog sniff the back of the hand
>> approaching from the front, as that's not enough for the dog not to
>> perceive a threat. She recommended approaching from the side as the dog
>> can get a better look at you. As their eyes are on either side of their
>> snouts, they never look straight ahead with both eyes, something people
>> fail to understand.
>>
>>>>> . . .
>
> If they don't look straight ahead with both eyes, then they don't see
> parallax 3D ...which I'm not prepared to accept, particularly since my
> dog watches me intently with both eyes, face-on.
>
And dogs are predators. Predators tend to have eyes in front to focus
on prey. Prey tends to have eyes on the sides to see predators coming.

In any event, I grew up with dogs. Almost all dobermans and rottweilers
(which are NOT the instinctive rabid killer attack dogs everyone thinks
they are). Crouching down a couple feet away and holding my hand out
for the dog to approach works 99% of the time in my experience and the
1% are dogs that no approach is going to work with.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 4/5/24 4:15 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 4/5/2024 9:37 AM, FPP wrote:
>> On 4/4/24 10:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 4/4/2024 8:06 PM, FPP wrote:
>>>> On 4/4/24 11:31 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 4/4/2024 6:51 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/3/24 2:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 5:59 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 4:38 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:45:56 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13261563/Angie-Harmon-reveals-Instacart-driver-shot-KILLED-dogs.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The actress Angie Harmon shared the devastating news that one
>>>>>>>>>>> of her family's
>>>>>>>>>> dogs was shot and killed by an InstaCart delivery person over
>>>>>>>>>> the Easter
>>>>>>>>>> weekend. The 51-year-old former LAW & ORDER star revealed on
>>>>>>>>>> Instagram on
>>>>>>>>>> Monday that her dog Oliver had been killed by the delivery
>>>>>>>>>> person after he
>>>>>>>>>> dropped off groceries to their home in Charlotte, North Carolina.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "This Easter weekend a man delivering groceries for InstaCart
>>>>>>>>>>> shot & killed
>>>>>>>>>> our precious Oliver," she wrote, alongside several sweet
>>>>>>>>>> photos of the
>>>>>>>>>> deceased pet. "He got out of his car, delivered the food &
>>>>>>>>>> THEN shot our
>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>> Our Ring camera was charging in the house, which he saw & then
>>>>>>>>>> knew he
>>>>>>>>>> wasn’t
>>>>>>>>>> being recorded. The police let him go because he claimed
>>>>>>>>>> self-defense. He
>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> not have a scratch or bite on him nor were his pants torn. He
>>>>>>>>>> was shopping
>>>>>>>>>> under a woman's identity named Merle. He shot our dog with my
>>>>>>>>>> daughters and
>>>>>>>>>> myself at home and just kept saying, "Yeah, I shot your dog.
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did."
>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>> are completely traumatized and beyond devastated at the loss
>>>>>>>>>> of our beloved
>>>>>>>>>> boy and family member."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart responded to Harmon's claims with a statement to
>>>>>>>>>>> DailyMail.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "We were deeply saddened and disturbed to hear about this
>>>>>>>>>>> incident. We have no
>>>>>>>>>> tolerance for violence of any kind and the shopper account was
>>>>>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>>>>>> suspended from our platform," it said. "We have been in direct
>>>>>>>>>> contact with
>>>>>>>>>> the customer and are cooperating with law enforcement on their
>>>>>>>>>> investigation."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In an update from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department
>>>>>>>>>>> to TMZ, law
>>>>>>>>>> enforcement officials confirmed that the InstaCart driver
>>>>>>>>>> claimed he shot
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> dog in self-defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "The investigation revealed that a delivery driver arrived at
>>>>>>>>>>> the residence to
>>>>>>>>>> deliver consumable goods. The driver told officers that a dog
>>>>>>>>>> attacked him
>>>>>>>>>> while he was at the residence and that he defended himself by
>>>>>>>>>> firing a
>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>> gunshot, striking and mortally wounding the dog. Another dog
>>>>>>>>>> was present at
>>>>>>>>>> the residence but did not attack."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They added that the department's Animal Control division was
>>>>>>>>>>> also involved in
>>>>>>>>>> the response to the shooting but the department confirmed that
>>>>>>>>>> no charges
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> been filed against the driver at this time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The police department added that it was not seeking out any
>>>>>>>>>>> other individuals
>>>>>>>>>> in response to the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I’ve looked at the postings online and have some questions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ring doorbells are rechargeable? You can just stick them up to
>>>>>>>>>> the front of
>>>>>>>>>> the house and move them in and out? How come they don’t get
>>>>>>>>>> stolen all the
>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that has to be the case because most of them (all that I see
>>>>>>>>> around here) are just stuck to the door so there's no power
>>>>>>>>> connection. I haven't checked but assumed that the ring is
>>>>>>>>> locked to
>>>>>>>>> the case until you use the app to unlock the ring device.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The groceries delivered Were a very small package left at the
>>>>>>>>>> front door. I
>>>>>>>>>> thought from the story presented he/she/it must’ve come inside
>>>>>>>>>> to see that
>>>>>>>>>> her ring doorbell was recharging. So I’m not sure how
>>>>>>>>>> he/she/it knew.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I assume the actual device was missing (since it was inside
>>>>>>>>> recharging) so the easier way to put it is that the driver saw
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there was no camera. He may not even have known they had a Ring
>>>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>>>> unless he delivered items there before.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ring is currently heavily advertising that every big moment in
>>>>>>>>>> your life
>>>>>>>>>> happens on your front porch and is captured by your ring
>>>>>>>>>> doorbell video
>>>>>>>>>> which is just galactically stupid but will they continue this
>>>>>>>>>> campaign?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder what Instacart and the local police policy is on
>>>>>>>>>> Instacart,
>>>>>>>>>> drivers carrying weapons, potentially concealed?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My guess is just the what ever the local laws are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They won’t do anything to he/she/it. PETA goes to peoples
>>>>>>>>>> homes and steals
>>>>>>>>>> their animals and kills them because they don’t think animals
>>>>>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>>>>> pets and it’s just a small fine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, without a video of what the guy did I don't expect
>>>>>>>>> anything to
>>>>>>>>> happen to him.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're kidding, right?  Without him having proof of self
>>>>>>>> defense, he's going to get his ass sued off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as criminal charges go, that'll depend on what, if
>>>>>>>> anything, he's charged with - as well as his past record, if he
>>>>>>>> has one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't want to believe there are people who'd shoot a dog with
>>>>>>> zero provocation, and I'm guessing a jury might not want to either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, pig.  So you've never been on a jury before, have you?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I fail the voir dire.  But in this instance it's the word of
>>>>> the victim and only witness against the owners' speculative
>>>>> "certainty".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The guy doing the shooting is the one who needs to show his reason
>>>> for shooting in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> You don't want to believe that people treat animals badly?  Do you
>>>> live under a rock?
>>>
>>> I couldn't convict the guy based simply on my angry suspicions.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What provocation justifies killing an animal?  Because unless there
>> was some kind of justification, he shot a dog in the dog's own home.
>>
>> You condone abusing animals that haven't done anything to warrant it?
>
> In this instance, it seems to be a question of evidence, and there's
> only the victim's.  It'd take a helluva lot of testimony about past
> behavior -- probably about both victim and dog -- to outweigh that.
>
>
>

On 4/5/24 4:23 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 4/5/2024 2:05 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/4/2024 10:29 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> . . .
>>
>>>>> The sad thing is you can't always tell what the dog is going to do.
>>
>>>> You pay attention to the dog's ears, his head position, and his tail.
>>>> They make it quite clear. Also, dogs pay attention TO YOU, so show
>>>> leadership by standing tall with a proper stride. Don't approach the
>>>> dog
>>>> in a way he might feel threatened, like with your from above trying to
>>>> pet the top of his head. If he's willing to be petted, he'll let you
>>>> but
>>>> do it from below eye level on his chest.
>>
>>>> Some dogs, like herding dogs, might be aggressive with their mouths,
>>>> like grabbing wrists or ankles, but that's trying to dominate and not
>>>> trying to kill. A dog that attacks the neck or face is quite dangerous.
>>
>>>>> I run into dogs being walked by their owners all the time and most
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> are just happy to see anyone but I've run into a few who seemed like
>>>>> they wanted some attention as they came over to me as I was walking by
>>>>> but clearly didn't actually want to be touched. That's taught me to
>>>>> always be cautious when going to pet a dog even though the owner is
>>>>> right there so I'll keep my fingers closed in my hand just in case the
>>>>> dog wants to take a nip.
>>
>>>> Right. NEVER offer dog a finger.
>>
>>> Generally you want to put your hand out, back of the hand towards the
>>> dog so it can smell you and let it come to you if it wants to be
>>> friendly.  Don't make a fist, dogs are smart enough to recognize that as
>>> being aggressive.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> Barbara Woodhouse was against letting the dog sniff the back of the hand
>> approaching from the front, as that's not enough for the dog not to
>> perceive a threat. She recommended approaching from the side as the dog
>> can get a better look at you. As their eyes are on either side of their
>> snouts, they never look straight ahead with both eyes, something people
>> fail to understand.
>>
>>>>> . . .
>
> If they don't look straight ahead with both eyes, then they don't see
> parallax 3D ...which I'm not prepared to accept, particularly since my
> dog watches me intently with both eyes, face-on.
>
>

You always let the dog come to the stranger, never the other way around.
You always let the dog do the sniffing, you don't offer your hand.

That's a great way to get bit. The dog has to be comfortable first
before you approach it.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

On 4/9/2024 9:17 AM, FPP wrote:
> On 4/5/24 4:15 PM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 4/5/2024 9:37 AM, FPP wrote:
>>> On 4/4/24 10:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>> On 4/4/2024 8:06 PM, FPP wrote:
>>>>> On 4/4/24 11:31 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/4/2024 6:51 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 2:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 5:59 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 4:38 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:45:56 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13261563/Angie-Harmon-reveals-Instacart-driver-shot-KILLED-dogs.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The actress Angie Harmon shared the devastating news that
>>>>>>>>>>>> one of her family's
>>>>>>>>>>> dogs was shot and killed by an InstaCart delivery person over
>>>>>>>>>>> the Easter
>>>>>>>>>>> weekend. The 51-year-old former LAW & ORDER star revealed on
>>>>>>>>>>> Instagram on
>>>>>>>>>>> Monday that her dog Oliver had been killed by the delivery
>>>>>>>>>>> person after he
>>>>>>>>>>> dropped off groceries to their home in Charlotte, North
>>>>>>>>>>> Carolina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "This Easter weekend a man delivering groceries for
>>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart shot & killed
>>>>>>>>>>> our precious Oliver," she wrote, alongside several sweet
>>>>>>>>>>> photos of the
>>>>>>>>>>> deceased pet. "He got out of his car, delivered the food &
>>>>>>>>>>> THEN shot our
>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>> Our Ring camera was charging in the house, which he saw &
>>>>>>>>>>> then knew he
>>>>>>>>>>> wasn’t
>>>>>>>>>>> being recorded. The police let him go because he claimed
>>>>>>>>>>> self-defense. He
>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>> not have a scratch or bite on him nor were his pants torn. He
>>>>>>>>>>> was shopping
>>>>>>>>>>> under a woman's identity named Merle. He shot our dog with my
>>>>>>>>>>> daughters and
>>>>>>>>>>> myself at home and just kept saying, "Yeah, I shot your dog.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did."
>>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>>> are completely traumatized and beyond devastated at the loss
>>>>>>>>>>> of our beloved
>>>>>>>>>>> boy and family member."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart responded to Harmon's claims with a statement to
>>>>>>>>>>>> DailyMail.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "We were deeply saddened and disturbed to hear about this
>>>>>>>>>>>> incident. We have no
>>>>>>>>>>> tolerance for violence of any kind and the shopper account
>>>>>>>>>>> was immediately
>>>>>>>>>>> suspended from our platform," it said. "We have been in
>>>>>>>>>>> direct contact with
>>>>>>>>>>> the customer and are cooperating with law enforcement on their
>>>>>>>>>>> investigation."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In an update from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police
>>>>>>>>>>>> Department to TMZ, law
>>>>>>>>>>> enforcement officials confirmed that the InstaCart driver
>>>>>>>>>>> claimed he shot
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> dog in self-defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "The investigation revealed that a delivery driver arrived
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the residence to
>>>>>>>>>>> deliver consumable goods. The driver told officers that a dog
>>>>>>>>>>> attacked him
>>>>>>>>>>> while he was at the residence and that he defended himself by
>>>>>>>>>>> firing a
>>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>>> gunshot, striking and mortally wounding the dog. Another dog
>>>>>>>>>>> was present at
>>>>>>>>>>> the residence but did not attack."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They added that the department's Animal Control division was
>>>>>>>>>>>> also involved in
>>>>>>>>>>> the response to the shooting but the department confirmed
>>>>>>>>>>> that no charges
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> been filed against the driver at this time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The police department added that it was not seeking out any
>>>>>>>>>>>> other individuals
>>>>>>>>>>> in response to the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve looked at the postings online and have some questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ring doorbells are rechargeable? You can just stick them up
>>>>>>>>>>> to the front of
>>>>>>>>>>> the house and move them in and out? How come they don’t get
>>>>>>>>>>> stolen all the
>>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that has to be the case because most of them (all that I
>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>> around here) are just stuck to the door so there's no power
>>>>>>>>>> connection. I haven't checked but assumed that the ring is
>>>>>>>>>> locked to
>>>>>>>>>> the case until you use the app to unlock the ring device.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The groceries delivered Were a very small package left at the
>>>>>>>>>>> front door. I
>>>>>>>>>>> thought from the story presented he/she/it must’ve come
>>>>>>>>>>> inside to see that
>>>>>>>>>>> her ring doorbell was recharging. So I’m not sure how
>>>>>>>>>>> he/she/it knew.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I assume the actual device was missing (since it was inside
>>>>>>>>>> recharging) so the easier way to put it is that the driver saw
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there was no camera. He may not even have known they had a
>>>>>>>>>> Ring device
>>>>>>>>>> unless he delivered items there before.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ring is currently heavily advertising that every big moment
>>>>>>>>>>> in your life
>>>>>>>>>>> happens on your front porch and is captured by your ring
>>>>>>>>>>> doorbell video
>>>>>>>>>>> which is just galactically stupid but will they continue this
>>>>>>>>>>> campaign?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder what Instacart and the local police policy is on
>>>>>>>>>>> Instacart,
>>>>>>>>>>> drivers carrying weapons, potentially concealed?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My guess is just the what ever the local laws are.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They won’t do anything to he/she/it. PETA goes to peoples
>>>>>>>>>>> homes and steals
>>>>>>>>>>> their animals and kills them because they don’t think animals
>>>>>>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>>>>>> pets and it’s just a small fine.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, without a video of what the guy did I don't expect
>>>>>>>>>> anything to
>>>>>>>>>> happen to him.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You're kidding, right?  Without him having proof of self
>>>>>>>>> defense, he's going to get his ass sued off.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As far as criminal charges go, that'll depend on what, if
>>>>>>>>> anything, he's charged with - as well as his past record, if he
>>>>>>>>> has one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't want to believe there are people who'd shoot a dog with
>>>>>>>> zero provocation, and I'm guessing a jury might not want to either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow, pig.  So you've never been on a jury before, have you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I fail the voir dire.  But in this instance it's the word of
>>>>>> the victim and only witness against the owners' speculative
>>>>>> "certainty".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The guy doing the shooting is the one who needs to show his reason
>>>>> for shooting in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't want to believe that people treat animals badly?  Do you
>>>>> live under a rock?
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't convict the guy based simply on my angry suspicions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What provocation justifies killing an animal?  Because unless there
>>> was some kind of justification, he shot a dog in the dog's own home.
>>>
>>> You condone abusing animals that haven't done anything to warrant it?
>>
>> In this instance, it seems to be a question of evidence, and there's
>> only the victim's.  It'd take a helluva lot of testimony about past
>> behavior -- probably about both victim and dog -- to outweigh that.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Not how things work, pig.  The guy who put the bullet in the dog has to
> account for his actions, not the other way around.
>
> The burden isn't on the victim.
>
> You run down an old man in his back yard, you'd better have a pretty
> good excuse.

On 4/9/2024 8:32 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 4/9/2024 9:17 AM, FPP wrote:
>> On 4/5/24 4:15 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2024 9:37 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>> On 4/4/24 10:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 4/4/2024 8:06 PM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/4/24 11:31 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/4/2024 6:51 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 2:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 5:59 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 4:38 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:45:56 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13261563/Angie-Harmon-reveals-Instacart-driver-shot-KILLED-dogs.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The actress Angie Harmon shared the devastating news that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of her family's
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs was shot and killed by an InstaCart delivery person
>>>>>>>>>>>> over the Easter
>>>>>>>>>>>> weekend. The 51-year-old former LAW & ORDER star revealed on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Instagram on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Monday that her dog Oliver had been killed by the delivery
>>>>>>>>>>>> person after he
>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped off groceries to their home in Charlotte, North
>>>>>>>>>>>> Carolina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "This Easter weekend a man delivering groceries for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart shot & killed
>>>>>>>>>>>> our precious Oliver," she wrote, alongside several sweet
>>>>>>>>>>>> photos of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> deceased pet. "He got out of his car, delivered the food &
>>>>>>>>>>>> THEN shot our
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Our Ring camera was charging in the house, which he saw &
>>>>>>>>>>>> then knew he
>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn’t
>>>>>>>>>>>> being recorded. The police let him go because he claimed
>>>>>>>>>>>> self-defense. He
>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>> not have a scratch or bite on him nor were his pants torn.
>>>>>>>>>>>> He was shopping
>>>>>>>>>>>> under a woman's identity named Merle. He shot our dog with
>>>>>>>>>>>> my daughters and
>>>>>>>>>>>> myself at home and just kept saying, "Yeah, I shot your dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did."
>>>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>>>> are completely traumatized and beyond devastated at the loss
>>>>>>>>>>>> of our beloved
>>>>>>>>>>>> boy and family member."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart responded to Harmon's claims with a statement to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DailyMail.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "We were deeply saddened and disturbed to hear about this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incident. We have no
>>>>>>>>>>>> tolerance for violence of any kind and the shopper account
>>>>>>>>>>>> was immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>> suspended from our platform," it said. "We have been in
>>>>>>>>>>>> direct contact with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the customer and are cooperating with law enforcement on their
>>>>>>>>>>>> investigation."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In an update from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department to TMZ, law
>>>>>>>>>>>> enforcement officials confirmed that the InstaCart driver
>>>>>>>>>>>> claimed he shot
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog in self-defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The investigation revealed that a delivery driver arrived
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the residence to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver consumable goods. The driver told officers that a
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog attacked him
>>>>>>>>>>>> while he was at the residence and that he defended himself
>>>>>>>>>>>> by firing a
>>>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>>>> gunshot, striking and mortally wounding the dog. Another dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> was present at
>>>>>>>>>>>> the residence but did not attack."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They added that the department's Animal Control division
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was also involved in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the response to the shooting but the department confirmed
>>>>>>>>>>>> that no charges
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> been filed against the driver at this time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The police department added that it was not seeking out any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>> in response to the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve looked at the postings online and have some questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring doorbells are rechargeable? You can just stick them up
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the front of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the house and move them in and out? How come they don’t get
>>>>>>>>>>>> stolen all the
>>>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that has to be the case because most of them (all that
>>>>>>>>>>> I see
>>>>>>>>>>> around here) are just stuck to the door so there's no power
>>>>>>>>>>> connection. I haven't checked but assumed that the ring is
>>>>>>>>>>> locked to
>>>>>>>>>>> the case until you use the app to unlock the ring device.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The groceries delivered Were a very small package left at
>>>>>>>>>>>> the front door. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought from the story presented he/she/it must’ve come
>>>>>>>>>>>> inside to see that
>>>>>>>>>>>> her ring doorbell was recharging. So I’m not sure how
>>>>>>>>>>>> he/she/it knew.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I assume the actual device was missing (since it was inside
>>>>>>>>>>> recharging) so the easier way to put it is that the driver
>>>>>>>>>>> saw that
>>>>>>>>>>> there was no camera. He may not even have known they had a
>>>>>>>>>>> Ring device
>>>>>>>>>>> unless he delivered items there before.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring is currently heavily advertising that every big moment
>>>>>>>>>>>> in your life
>>>>>>>>>>>> happens on your front porch and is captured by your ring
>>>>>>>>>>>> doorbell video
>>>>>>>>>>>> which is just galactically stupid but will they continue
>>>>>>>>>>>> this campaign?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder what Instacart and the local police policy is on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Instacart,
>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers carrying weapons, potentially concealed?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My guess is just the what ever the local laws are.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They won’t do anything to he/she/it. PETA goes to peoples
>>>>>>>>>>>> homes and steals
>>>>>>>>>>>> their animals and kills them because they don’t think
>>>>>>>>>>>> animals should be
>>>>>>>>>>>> pets and it’s just a small fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, without a video of what the guy did I don't expect
>>>>>>>>>>> anything to
>>>>>>>>>>> happen to him.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You're kidding, right?  Without him having proof of self
>>>>>>>>>> defense, he's going to get his ass sued off.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As far as criminal charges go, that'll depend on what, if
>>>>>>>>>> anything, he's charged with - as well as his past record, if
>>>>>>>>>> he has one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't want to believe there are people who'd shoot a dog with
>>>>>>>>> zero provocation, and I'm guessing a jury might not want to
>>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wow, pig.  So you've never been on a jury before, have you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I fail the voir dire.  But in this instance it's the word of
>>>>>>> the victim and only witness against the owners' speculative
>>>>>>> "certainty".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guy doing the shooting is the one who needs to show his reason
>>>>>> for shooting in the first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't want to believe that people treat animals badly?  Do you
>>>>>> live under a rock?
>>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't convict the guy based simply on my angry suspicions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What provocation justifies killing an animal?  Because unless there
>>>> was some kind of justification, he shot a dog in the dog's own home.
>>>>
>>>> You condone abusing animals that haven't done anything to warrant it?
>>>
>>> In this instance, it seems to be a question of evidence, and there's
>>> only the victim's.  It'd take a helluva lot of testimony about past
>>> behavior -- probably about both victim and dog -- to outweigh that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Not how things work, pig.  The guy who put the bullet in the dog has
>> to account for his actions, not the other way around.
>>
>> The burden isn't on the victim.
>>
>> You run down an old man in his back yard, you'd better have a pretty
>> good excuse.
>
> The shooter says the dog viciously menaced him.  What else is there?
>
Character references from neighbors and friends who knew the dog. 1
"bad dog" versus half-a-dozen "sweet loving pup".

On 4/9/2024 9:05 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 4/9/2024 8:32 AM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 4/9/2024 9:17 AM, FPP wrote:
>>> On 4/5/24 4:15 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>> On 4/5/2024 9:37 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>> On 4/4/24 10:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/4/2024 8:06 PM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/4/24 11:31 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/4/2024 6:51 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 2:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 5:59 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 4:38 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:45:56 -0700, anim8rfsk
>>>>>>>>>>>> <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13261563/Angie-Harmon-reveals-Instacart-driver-shot-KILLED-dogs.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The actress Angie Harmon shared the devastating news that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of her family's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs was shot and killed by an InstaCart delivery person
>>>>>>>>>>>>> over the Easter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weekend. The 51-year-old former LAW & ORDER star revealed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Instagram on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monday that her dog Oliver had been killed by the delivery
>>>>>>>>>>>>> person after he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped off groceries to their home in Charlotte, North
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carolina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "This Easter weekend a man delivering groceries for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart shot & killed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> our precious Oliver," she wrote, alongside several sweet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> photos of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deceased pet. "He got out of his car, delivered the food &
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THEN shot our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our Ring camera was charging in the house, which he saw &
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then knew he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn’t
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being recorded. The police let him go because he claimed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-defense. He
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have a scratch or bite on him nor were his pants torn.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was shopping
>>>>>>>>>>>>> under a woman's identity named Merle. He shot our dog with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my daughters and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself at home and just kept saying, "Yeah, I shot your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog. Yeah, I did."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are completely traumatized and beyond devastated at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> loss of our beloved
>>>>>>>>>>>>> boy and family member."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart responded to Harmon's claims with a statement to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DailyMail.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "We were deeply saddened and disturbed to hear about this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incident. We have no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tolerance for violence of any kind and the shopper account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspended from our platform," it said. "We have been in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> direct contact with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the customer and are cooperating with law enforcement on their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> investigation."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In an update from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department to TMZ, law
>>>>>>>>>>>>> enforcement officials confirmed that the InstaCart driver
>>>>>>>>>>>>> claimed he shot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog in self-defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The investigation revealed that a delivery driver arrived
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the residence to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver consumable goods. The driver told officers that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog attacked him
>>>>>>>>>>>>> while he was at the residence and that he defended himself
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by firing a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>>>>> gunshot, striking and mortally wounding the dog. Another
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog was present at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the residence but did not attack."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They added that the department's Animal Control division
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was also involved in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the response to the shooting but the department confirmed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no charges
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been filed against the driver at this time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The police department added that it was not seeking out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in response to the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve looked at the postings online and have some questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring doorbells are rechargeable? You can just stick them up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the house and move them in and out? How come they don’t get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stolen all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that has to be the case because most of them (all that
>>>>>>>>>>>> I see
>>>>>>>>>>>> around here) are just stuck to the door so there's no power
>>>>>>>>>>>> connection. I haven't checked but assumed that the ring is
>>>>>>>>>>>> locked to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the case until you use the app to unlock the ring device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The groceries delivered Were a very small package left at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the front door. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought from the story presented he/she/it must’ve come
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inside to see that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> her ring doorbell was recharging. So I’m not sure how
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he/she/it knew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I assume the actual device was missing (since it was inside
>>>>>>>>>>>> recharging) so the easier way to put it is that the driver
>>>>>>>>>>>> saw that
>>>>>>>>>>>> there was no camera. He may not even have known they had a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring device
>>>>>>>>>>>> unless he delivered items there before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring is currently heavily advertising that every big moment
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your life
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens on your front porch and is captured by your ring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doorbell video
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is just galactically stupid but will they continue
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this campaign?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder what Instacart and the local police policy is on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instacart,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers carrying weapons, potentially concealed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess is just the what ever the local laws are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They won’t do anything to he/she/it. PETA goes to peoples
>>>>>>>>>>>>> homes and steals
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their animals and kills them because they don’t think
>>>>>>>>>>>>> animals should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pets and it’s just a small fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, without a video of what the guy did I don't expect
>>>>>>>>>>>> anything to
>>>>>>>>>>>> happen to him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You're kidding, right?  Without him having proof of self
>>>>>>>>>>> defense, he's going to get his ass sued off.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As far as criminal charges go, that'll depend on what, if
>>>>>>>>>>> anything, he's charged with - as well as his past record, if
>>>>>>>>>>> he has one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't want to believe there are people who'd shoot a dog
>>>>>>>>>> with zero provocation, and I'm guessing a jury might not want
>>>>>>>>>> to either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wow, pig.  So you've never been on a jury before, have you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I fail the voir dire.  But in this instance it's the word of
>>>>>>>> the victim and only witness against the owners' speculative
>>>>>>>> "certainty".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The guy doing the shooting is the one who needs to show his
>>>>>>> reason for shooting in the first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You don't want to believe that people treat animals badly?  Do
>>>>>>> you live under a rock?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I couldn't convict the guy based simply on my angry suspicions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What provocation justifies killing an animal?  Because unless there
>>>>> was some kind of justification, he shot a dog in the dog's own home.
>>>>>
>>>>> You condone abusing animals that haven't done anything to warrant it?
>>>>
>>>> In this instance, it seems to be a question of evidence, and there's
>>>> only the victim's.  It'd take a helluva lot of testimony about past
>>>> behavior -- probably about both victim and dog -- to outweigh that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not how things work, pig.  The guy who put the bullet in the dog has
>>> to account for his actions, not the other way around.
>>>
>>> The burden isn't on the victim.
>>>
>>> You run down an old man in his back yard, you'd better have a pretty
>>> good excuse.
>>
>> The shooter says the dog viciously menaced him.  What else is there?
>>
> Character references from neighbors and friends who knew the dog.  1
> "bad dog" versus half-a-dozen "sweet loving pup".

On 4/9/24 11:32 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 4/9/2024 9:17 AM, FPP wrote:
>> On 4/5/24 4:15 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2024 9:37 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>> On 4/4/24 10:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 4/4/2024 8:06 PM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/4/24 11:31 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/4/2024 6:51 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 2:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 5:59 AM, FPP wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/24 4:38 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 23:45:56 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13261563/Angie-Harmon-reveals-Instacart-driver-shot-KILLED-dogs.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The actress Angie Harmon shared the devastating news that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of her family's
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs was shot and killed by an InstaCart delivery person
>>>>>>>>>>>> over the Easter
>>>>>>>>>>>> weekend. The 51-year-old former LAW & ORDER star revealed on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Instagram on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Monday that her dog Oliver had been killed by the delivery
>>>>>>>>>>>> person after he
>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped off groceries to their home in Charlotte, North
>>>>>>>>>>>> Carolina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "This Easter weekend a man delivering groceries for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart shot & killed
>>>>>>>>>>>> our precious Oliver," she wrote, alongside several sweet
>>>>>>>>>>>> photos of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> deceased pet. "He got out of his car, delivered the food &
>>>>>>>>>>>> THEN shot our
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Our Ring camera was charging in the house, which he saw &
>>>>>>>>>>>> then knew he
>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn’t
>>>>>>>>>>>> being recorded. The police let him go because he claimed
>>>>>>>>>>>> self-defense. He
>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>> not have a scratch or bite on him nor were his pants torn.
>>>>>>>>>>>> He was shopping
>>>>>>>>>>>> under a woman's identity named Merle. He shot our dog with
>>>>>>>>>>>> my daughters and
>>>>>>>>>>>> myself at home and just kept saying, "Yeah, I shot your dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I did."
>>>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>>>> are completely traumatized and beyond devastated at the loss
>>>>>>>>>>>> of our beloved
>>>>>>>>>>>> boy and family member."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> InstaCart responded to Harmon's claims with a statement to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DailyMail.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "We were deeply saddened and disturbed to hear about this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incident. We have no
>>>>>>>>>>>> tolerance for violence of any kind and the shopper account
>>>>>>>>>>>> was immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>> suspended from our platform," it said. "We have been in
>>>>>>>>>>>> direct contact with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the customer and are cooperating with law enforcement on their
>>>>>>>>>>>> investigation."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In an update from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department to TMZ, law
>>>>>>>>>>>> enforcement officials confirmed that the InstaCart driver
>>>>>>>>>>>> claimed he shot
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog in self-defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The investigation revealed that a delivery driver arrived
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the residence to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver consumable goods. The driver told officers that a
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog attacked him
>>>>>>>>>>>> while he was at the residence and that he defended himself
>>>>>>>>>>>> by firing a
>>>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>>>> gunshot, striking and mortally wounding the dog. Another dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> was present at
>>>>>>>>>>>> the residence but did not attack."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They added that the department's Animal Control division
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was also involved in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the response to the shooting but the department confirmed
>>>>>>>>>>>> that no charges
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> been filed against the driver at this time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The police department added that it was not seeking out any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>> in response to the shooting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve looked at the postings online and have some questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring doorbells are rechargeable? You can just stick them up
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the front of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the house and move them in and out? How come they don’t get
>>>>>>>>>>>> stolen all the
>>>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that has to be the case because most of them (all that
>>>>>>>>>>> I see
>>>>>>>>>>> around here) are just stuck to the door so there's no power
>>>>>>>>>>> connection. I haven't checked but assumed that the ring is
>>>>>>>>>>> locked to
>>>>>>>>>>> the case until you use the app to unlock the ring device.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The groceries delivered Were a very small package left at
>>>>>>>>>>>> the front door. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought from the story presented he/she/it must’ve come
>>>>>>>>>>>> inside to see that
>>>>>>>>>>>> her ring doorbell was recharging. So I’m not sure how
>>>>>>>>>>>> he/she/it knew.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I assume the actual device was missing (since it was inside
>>>>>>>>>>> recharging) so the easier way to put it is that the driver
>>>>>>>>>>> saw that
>>>>>>>>>>> there was no camera. He may not even have known they had a
>>>>>>>>>>> Ring device
>>>>>>>>>>> unless he delivered items there before.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ring is currently heavily advertising that every big moment
>>>>>>>>>>>> in your life
>>>>>>>>>>>> happens on your front porch and is captured by your ring
>>>>>>>>>>>> doorbell video
>>>>>>>>>>>> which is just galactically stupid but will they continue
>>>>>>>>>>>> this campaign?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder what Instacart and the local police policy is on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Instacart,
>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers carrying weapons, potentially concealed?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My guess is just the what ever the local laws are.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They won’t do anything to he/she/it. PETA goes to peoples
>>>>>>>>>>>> homes and steals
>>>>>>>>>>>> their animals and kills them because they don’t think
>>>>>>>>>>>> animals should be
>>>>>>>>>>>> pets and it’s just a small fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, without a video of what the guy did I don't expect
>>>>>>>>>>> anything to
>>>>>>>>>>> happen to him.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You're kidding, right?  Without him having proof of self
>>>>>>>>>> defense, he's going to get his ass sued off.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As far as criminal charges go, that'll depend on what, if
>>>>>>>>>> anything, he's charged with - as well as his past record, if
>>>>>>>>>> he has one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't want to believe there are people who'd shoot a dog with
>>>>>>>>> zero provocation, and I'm guessing a jury might not want to
>>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wow, pig.  So you've never been on a jury before, have you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I fail the voir dire.  But in this instance it's the word of
>>>>>>> the victim and only witness against the owners' speculative
>>>>>>> "certainty".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guy doing the shooting is the one who needs to show his reason
>>>>>> for shooting in the first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't want to believe that people treat animals badly?  Do you
>>>>>> live under a rock?
>>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't convict the guy based simply on my angry suspicions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What provocation justifies killing an animal?  Because unless there
>>>> was some kind of justification, he shot a dog in the dog's own home.
>>>>
>>>> You condone abusing animals that haven't done anything to warrant it?
>>>
>>> In this instance, it seems to be a question of evidence, and there's
>>> only the victim's.  It'd take a helluva lot of testimony about past
>>> behavior -- probably about both victim and dog -- to outweigh that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Not how things work, pig.  The guy who put the bullet in the dog has
>> to account for his actions, not the other way around.
>>
>> The burden isn't on the victim.
>>
>> You run down an old man in his back yard, you'd better have a pretty
>> good excuse.
>
> The shooter says the dog viciously menaced him.  What else is there?

On 4/9/24 8:19 AM, FPP wrote:
> On 4/5/24 4:23 PM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 4/5/2024 2:05 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> On 4/4/2024 10:29 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> . . .
>>>
>>>>>> The sad thing is you can't always tell what the dog is going to do.
>>>
>>>>> You pay attention to the dog's ears, his head position, and his tail.
>>>>> They make it quite clear. Also, dogs pay attention TO YOU, so show
>>>>> leadership by standing tall with a proper stride. Don't approach
>>>>> the dog
>>>>> in a way he might feel threatened, like with your from above trying to
>>>>> pet the top of his head. If he's willing to be petted, he'll let
>>>>> you but
>>>>> do it from below eye level on his chest.
>>>
>>>>> Some dogs, like herding dogs, might be aggressive with their mouths,
>>>>> like grabbing wrists or ankles, but that's trying to dominate and not
>>>>> trying to kill. A dog that attacks the neck or face is quite
>>>>> dangerous.
>>>
>>>>>> I run into dogs being walked by their owners all the time and most
>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>> are just happy to see anyone but I've run into a few who seemed like
>>>>>> they wanted some attention as they came over to me as I was
>>>>>> walking by
>>>>>> but clearly didn't actually want to be touched. That's taught me to
>>>>>> always be cautious when going to pet a dog even though the owner is
>>>>>> right there so I'll keep my fingers closed in my hand just in case
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> dog wants to take a nip.
>>>
>>>>> Right. NEVER offer dog a finger.
>>>
>>>> Generally you want to put your hand out, back of the hand towards the
>>>> dog so it can smell you and let it come to you if it wants to be
>>>> friendly.  Don't make a fist, dogs are smart enough to recognize
>>>> that as
>>>> being aggressive.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> Barbara Woodhouse was against letting the dog sniff the back of the hand
>>> approaching from the front, as that's not enough for the dog not to
>>> perceive a threat. She recommended approaching from the side as the dog
>>> can get a better look at you. As their eyes are on either side of their
>>> snouts, they never look straight ahead with both eyes, something people
>>> fail to understand.
>>>
>>>>>> . . .
>>
>> If they don't look straight ahead with both eyes, then they don't see
>> parallax 3D ...which I'm not prepared to accept, particularly since my
>> dog watches me intently with both eyes, face-on.
>>
>>
>
> You always let the dog come to the stranger, never the other way around.
>  You always let the dog do the sniffing, you don't offer your hand.
>
> That's a great way to get bit.  The dog has to be comfortable first
> before you approach it.

Couldn't disagree more. You don't get bit because you offer your hand,
you get bit because the dog senses fear. 100%

On 4/11/24 5:35 PM, trotsky wrote:
> On 4/9/24 8:19 AM, FPP wrote:
>> On 4/5/24 4:23 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2024 2:05 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/4/2024 10:29 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>>>>> The sad thing is you can't always tell what the dog is going to do.
>>>>
>>>>>> You pay attention to the dog's ears, his head position, and his tail.
>>>>>> They make it quite clear. Also, dogs pay attention TO YOU, so show
>>>>>> leadership by standing tall with a proper stride. Don't approach
>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>> in a way he might feel threatened, like with your from above
>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>> pet the top of his head. If he's willing to be petted, he'll let
>>>>>> you but
>>>>>> do it from below eye level on his chest.
>>>>
>>>>>> Some dogs, like herding dogs, might be aggressive with their mouths,
>>>>>> like grabbing wrists or ankles, but that's trying to dominate and not
>>>>>> trying to kill. A dog that attacks the neck or face is quite
>>>>>> dangerous.
>>>>
>>>>>>> I run into dogs being walked by their owners all the time and
>>>>>>> most dogs
>>>>>>> are just happy to see anyone but I've run into a few who seemed like
>>>>>>> they wanted some attention as they came over to me as I was
>>>>>>> walking by
>>>>>>> but clearly didn't actually want to be touched. That's taught me to
>>>>>>> always be cautious when going to pet a dog even though the owner is
>>>>>>> right there so I'll keep my fingers closed in my hand just in
>>>>>>> case the
>>>>>>> dog wants to take a nip.
>>>>
>>>>>> Right. NEVER offer dog a finger.
>>>>
>>>>> Generally you want to put your hand out, back of the hand towards the
>>>>> dog so it can smell you and let it come to you if it wants to be
>>>>> friendly.  Don't make a fist, dogs are smart enough to recognize
>>>>> that as
>>>>> being aggressive.
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> Barbara Woodhouse was against letting the dog sniff the back of the
>>>> hand
>>>> approaching from the front, as that's not enough for the dog not to
>>>> perceive a threat. She recommended approaching from the side as the dog
>>>> can get a better look at you. As their eyes are on either side of their
>>>> snouts, they never look straight ahead with both eyes, something people
>>>> fail to understand.
>>>>
>>>>>>> . . .
>>>
>>> If they don't look straight ahead with both eyes, then they don't see
>>> parallax 3D ...which I'm not prepared to accept, particularly since
>>> my dog watches me intently with both eyes, face-on.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You always let the dog come to the stranger, never the other way
>> around.   You always let the dog do the sniffing, you don't offer your
>> hand.
>>
>> That's a great way to get bit.  The dog has to be comfortable first
>> before you approach it.
>
>
> Couldn't disagree more.  You don't get bit because you offer your hand,
> you get bit because the dog senses fear.  100%
>

When we got a pitbull, we got a trainer.
(An ex-Marine dog trainer, in fact.)
We've consulted the American Kennel Club. They all say this.

> Let the Dog Approach You
>Rather than sticking your hand in the dog’s face or reaching out for pets, wait for the dog to come to you. If the dog approaches you, they are saying they want to meet you. If they hang back, respect they simply aren’t in the mood, despite what their owner said. Not all owners accurately read their dog’s emotional state and some mistakenly believe their anxious dog will get over their fear if enough people say hello. Let the dog have the final word.

> To make yourself appear as friendly as possible, turn your body slightly to the side and look at the dog with your peripheral vision. In dog language, head-on approaches and direct eye contact are threatening, so avoid them if possible. You can also kneel down to the dog’s level so you aren’t looming overhead. However, if you are in any way uncertain about the dog, stay standing. After all, kneeling will put your face at bite level.
>
> Dogs don’t shake hands like people do, they use their nose to say hello. So, hold your hand in a fist so they can approach and sniff if they choose. Don’t thrust your hand at the dog. They can smell you just fine from a distance, and the sudden movement could startle them.

Avoid eye contact. Don't approach the dog. The dog doesn't understand
your motives.

> Once the dog approaches, it’s finally time to greet them. But, be sure to do so in dog-appropriate ways. Restrict your pats to the dog’s side, neck, back, or chest. Avoid reaching over the dog’s head as that is frightening. And don’t hug or restrain the dog in any way. Most dogs dislike pats on the head and hugs. They might tolerate them from their family members, but strangers are a different story.
>
> Go slowly at first and keep your movements calm and steady. You don’t want to startle them. Read their body language to see whether they’ve had enough after a few moments or if they’re interested in further interaction. Hopefully, it will be clear if you’ve made a new friend.

> All kids should know the “Be a Tree” technique for whenever they encounter a dog on the loose. Be a Tree refers to standing still, with your arms tucked into your sides and your hands folded in front of you, while you look down. This is the safest posture for kids around a loose dog because they aren’t doing anything to threaten or spook the dog like making eye contact or triggering the dog’s chase response with movement

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/advice/how-to-safely-greet-a-strange-dog/

Yeah, I know... all dogs are different. But they're all dangerous too.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

Again, this is not the look of a dog that wants to have your hand stuck
in her face...

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0