There's a free-standing building, almost a kiosk, near my grocery
which consists of one tiny room containing a teller machine, a shelf
to sort your wallet on, and a wastebasket full of receipts.

The machine doesn't issue a receipt unless you specifically request a
receipt -- so why are so many discarded?

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

In article <7k4sai14vhub3i6kkvafoh5dl0t5d93g78@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>There's a free-standing building, almost a kiosk, near my grocery
>which consists of one tiny room containing a teller machine, a shelf
>to sort your wallet on, and a wastebasket full of receipts.
>
>The machine doesn't issue a receipt unless you specifically request a
>receipt -- so why are so many discarded?

(Hal Heydt)
I can't speak to the practices at your local bank, but at mine
one ends up with one or two "most used" transactions and that
carries through to whether or not you want a receipt.

And speaking of ATMs....California has just released Leslie
van Houten. She is to spend a year in a half-way house. While
there, she gets to learn about things like ATMs, debit cards,
cell phones, and the web. She's been locked up for 53 years and
the world has changed....

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <7k4sai14vhub3i6kkvafoh5dl0t5d93g78@4ax.com>,
>Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>There's a free-standing building, almost a kiosk, near my grocery
>>which consists of one tiny room containing a teller machine, a shelf
>>to sort your wallet on, and a wastebasket full of receipts.
>>
>>The machine doesn't issue a receipt unless you specifically request a
>>receipt -- so why are so many discarded?
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>I can't speak to the practices at your local bank, but at mine
>one ends up with one or two "most used" transactions and that
>carries through to whether or not you want a receipt.

Perhaps people get cash from the ATM, put it into their wallet, and notice
all the other receipts from other ATM transactions in there and throw them
all out?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 7/11/2023 9:40 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
>
> There's a free-standing building, almost a kiosk, near my grocery
> which consists of one tiny room containing a teller machine, a shelf
> to sort your wallet on, and a wastebasket full of receipts.
>
> The machine doesn't issue a receipt unless you specifically request a
> receipt -- so why are so many discarded?
>

At least at mine (IIRC, been a while since I've gotten one) the balance
shows on the receipt but not on the screen. So after they check they toss.

In article <u8nsfq$3ide4$1@dont-email.me>, morrisj@epsilon3.comcon (Jay E.
Morris) wrote:

>
>
> At least at mine (IIRC, been a while since I've gotten one) the
> balance shows on the receipt but not on the screen. So after they
> check they toss.

Interesting.

Here in the UK, looking at the last withdrawal I did from an ATM, there
was no balance given. And I don't recall a balance shown on the screen
when you do a withdrawal. I think you can request a balance separately,
but I've never done that and I don't know if that gives a hard copy.

On 7/13/23 7:12 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:
> In article <u8nsfq$3ide4$1@dont-email.me>, morrisj@epsilon3.comcon (Jay E.
> Morris) wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> At least at mine (IIRC, been a while since I've gotten one) the
>> balance shows on the receipt but not on the screen. So after they
>> check they toss.
>
> Interesting.
>
>
> Here in the UK, looking at the last withdrawal I did from an ATM, there
> was no balance given. And I don't recall a balance shown on the screen
> when you do a withdrawal. I think you can request a balance separately,
> but I've never done that and I don't know if that gives a hard copy.

At all US ATMs I've recently used, you can ask for your balance on
screen, but it usually requires a separate step from making a
withdrawal. At my current bank, the receipt includes the balance by default.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

In article <memo.20230713121249.19704A@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <u8nsfq$3ide4$1@dont-email.me>, morrisj@epsilon3.comcon (Jay E.
>Morris) wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> At least at mine (IIRC, been a while since I've gotten one) the
>> balance shows on the receipt but not on the screen. So after they
>> check they toss.
>
>Interesting.
>
>
>Here in the UK, looking at the last withdrawal I did from an ATM, there
>was no balance given. And I don't recall a balance shown on the screen
>when you do a withdrawal. I think you can request a balance separately,
>but I've never done that and I don't know if that gives a hard copy.

(Hal Heydt)
At the ATMs I use, the balance shows on the screen before the
transaction is selected, and the new balance (reflecting any
deposits or withdrawls) is printed on the receipt.

Hal Heydt wrote:
> California has just released Leslie van Houten. She is to spend
> a year in a half-way house. While there, she gets to learn about
> things like ATMs, debit cards, cell phones, and the web. She's been
> locked up for 53 years and the world has changed....

She also has to learn about all the new celebrities. Some are still
around from the 1960s, but aren't likely to be pregnant, making them
suboptimal as murder victims.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 8:19:56 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Hal Heydt wrote:
> > California has just released Leslie van Houten. She is to spend
> > a year in a half-way house. While there, she gets to learn about
> > things like ATMs, debit cards, cell phones, and the web. She's been
> > locked up for 53 years and the world has changed....
> She also has to learn about all the new celebrities. Some are still
> around from the 1960s, but aren't likely to be pregnant, making them
> suboptimal as murder victims.
> --
>

Let's hope she doesn't try to settle scores with the producers and
writers of "The Simpsons."

https://simpsonsfanon.fandom.com/wiki/Leslie_Van_Houten
--
Kevin R

In article <rxr46C.16sE@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>
> (Hal Heydt)
> At the ATMs I use, the balance shows on the screen before the
> transaction is selected, and the new balance (reflecting any
> deposits or withdrawls) is printed on the receipt.

As it happens, I've only used an ATM twice this year, so many places not
only accept cards, they insist on it. I'll have to see what happens with
ATMs in Germany and Austria when I'm on holiday in a week's time.

In article <rxr46C.16sE@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>
> (Hal Heydt)
> At the ATMs I use, the balance shows on the screen before the
> transaction is selected, and the new balance (reflecting any
> deposits or withdrawls) is printed on the receipt.

And, it occurs to me, these days if I need to know my balance before
using an ATM, I'd just log in to my bank app on my phone.

On 7/14/23 7:51 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:
> In article <rxr46C.16sE@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>>
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> At the ATMs I use, the balance shows on the screen before the
>> transaction is selected, and the new balance (reflecting any
>> deposits or withdrawls) is printed on the receipt.
>
> As it happens, I've only used an ATM twice this year, so many places not
> only accept cards, they insist on it. I'll have to see what happens with
> ATMs in Germany and Austria when I'm on holiday in a week's time.

Stores in Germany don't always accept the big-name credit cards, so you
might have to use cash more than in some other countries. The only other
issue I've noticed is that few ATMs accept the old pre-chip bank cards,
but the ones with chips are pretty much universal by now. It just caught
me when Germany was transitioning faster than the US.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

In article <u8rfrc$134v$1@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath)
wrote:

>
> Stores in Germany don't always accept the big-name credit cards, so
> you might have to use cash more than in some other countries. The
> only other issue I've noticed is that few ATMs accept the old
> pre-chip bank cards, but the ones with chips are pretty much
> universal by now. It just caught me when Germany was transitioning
> faster than the US.

I certainly had no trouble in Berlin last year, although a few little
corner shops didn't take cards. It was a very hot week and I kept
needing to buy drinks.

Certainly had chip and PIN cards in the UK for many years. I saw a few
American tourists having problems when the change was made here, the shop
having to get the customer to enter a PIN. What I did find last year in
Germany was that each shop and restaurant had different designs for their
terminals and I had to look to see where to place the card.

begin fnord
prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) writes:

> I certainly had no trouble in Berlin last year, although a few little
> corner shops didn't take cards. It was a very hot week and I kept
> needing to buy drinks.

In Ireland the other Worldcon week, I used Apple Pay *everywhere*
(except the time I used cash just for the experience of paying in
physical euro), and I never once even had to think about things. Find
the symbol, blip my watch, bim bam boom.

--
Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

In article <memo.20230714125117.3244A@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <rxr46C.16sE@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> At the ATMs I use, the balance shows on the screen before the
>> transaction is selected, and the new balance (reflecting any
>> deposits or withdrawls) is printed on the receipt.
>
>As it happens, I've only used an ATM twice this year, so many places not
>only accept cards, they insist on it. I'll have to see what happens with
>ATMs in Germany and Austria when I'm on holiday in a week's time.

(Hal Heydt)
If I encounter some place that will *only* accept cards, that
will be a place I won't do business with. And--just as an
FYI--US paper currency has "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL
DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE" printed on it, so a case can be
made that refusing to accept cash is illegal.

On 7/14/23 11:18 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:

> Certainly had chip and PIN cards in the UK for many years. I saw a few
> American tourists having problems when the change was made here, the shop
> having to get the customer to enter a PIN. What I did find last year in
> Germany was that each shop and restaurant had different designs for their
> terminals and I had to look to see where to place the card.

I'd forgotten to mention that some vending devices wanted a PIN with my
credit card. If I have one, I don't know what it is. That was as recent
as this year.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

In Message-ID:<rxsxEy.1y5M@kithrup.com>,
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>And--just as an
>FYI--US paper currency has "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL
>DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE" printed on it, so a case can be
>made that refusing to accept cash is illegal.

I know someone who actually talked to someone in the government about
this, as they thought the same as you. And they explained that the
word "debt" is important.

Anything which is pay-before-service can refuse cash because there is
no debt. For instance, fast food places require payment before they
give you food, so they could be credit card only. A long time back,
one of our transit systems wanted to go non-cash. They did everywhere
except the lines where you paid as you left.

On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:39:04 PM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
> On 7/14/23 11:18 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:
>
> > Certainly had chip and PIN cards in the UK for many years. I saw a few
> > American tourists having problems when the change was made here, the shop
> > having to get the customer to enter a PIN. What I did find last year in
> > Germany was that each shop and restaurant had different designs for their
> > terminals and I had to look to see where to place the card.
> I'd forgotten to mention that some vending devices wanted a PIN with my
> credit card. If I have one, I don't know what it is. That was as recent
> as this year.
> --

I used up the balance of a gift card I received from my ISP today.
They put fiber-optic cable into my neighborhood some months ago,
and when I switched out the DSL for FOC they gave me the new customer
deal: my monthly rate went down by $40 a month and I got a "thank you"
gift card in the amount of $100. I've been using it to buy snacks at my local
convenience store adjacent to the Dunkin' Donuts and gas station. It has
no chip, so I always had to swipe it. Today I bought beer at the liquor store
with it, and food and some paper products at the supermarket next door.

There was more than $50 left on it. I luckily got a competent cashier who could
instruct me on letting the card reader take all the value, and then pay the balance
due on my regular debit card linked to my checking account. Easy-peasy.

So I've been drinking the best kind of bheer: fhree bheer!* Dinner was the best
kind of pizza: free pizza! One of the housemates got a deal from his regular
pizza delivery joint. On top of that, a well-heeled client gave him a fat tip tonight.
So pizza was on Mr Gotbucks. The driver got a good tip, also. I shared bheer and
ice cream I brought back from the store. Everybody won.

I've switched over to (free) diet cranberry soda, which I also love. I also got some
diet cream soda and diet birch beer. Grilled cheeseburgers, sweet potato fries and
sweet corn are delayed until tomorrow.

* Some Blue Point Toasted Lager and some Yuengling. The BPTL is brewed in my
hometown! (Unless it came from the brewery in Baldwinsville, NY.†)

† AB InBev bought out the craft brewer, just as it or A-B, as it was, bought Goose Island
and Shock Top. Oh, well......

--
Kevin R

On 15/07/2023 05:42, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <memo.20230714125117.3244A@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
> Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <rxr46C.16sE@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> At the ATMs I use, the balance shows on the screen before the
>>> transaction is selected, and the new balance (reflecting any
>>> deposits or withdrawls) is printed on the receipt.
>>
>> As it happens, I've only used an ATM twice this year, so many places not
>> only accept cards, they insist on it. I'll have to see what happens with
>> ATMs in Germany and Austria when I'm on holiday in a week's time.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> If I encounter some place that will *only* accept cards, that
> will be a place I won't do business with. And--just as an
> FYI--US paper currency has "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL
> DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE" printed on it, so a case can be
> made that refusing to accept cash is illegal.

That's not quite how it works in the USA, and in many countries,
refusing to accept cash is *legislated* as being acceptable. Possibly a
hangover from a barter economy, but I don't know. :-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)

In article <m28rbib7qe.fsf@kelutral.omcl.org>, spcoltri@omcl.org (Steve
Coltrin) wrote:

>
> In Ireland the other Worldcon week, I used Apple Pay *everywhere*
> (except the time I used cash just for the experience of paying in
> physical euro), and I never once even had to think about things. Find
> the symbol, blip my watch, bim bam boom.

I finally got round to buying a smart phone just before Christmas after
Dublin and didn't know anything about paying with a phone. Then my
sister came visiting about eighteen months later and we were in a caf�
and she paid with her phone (an Apple). I checked my Android phone and
found Googlepay and installed it, only to fine the phone doesn't have the
necessary chip to do payments. :-( (It also doesn't have a compass. No
use when paying, but would be useful when walking.)

In article <u8sbp5$4bn7$1@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath)
wrote:

>
> I'd forgotten to mention that some vending devices wanted a PIN with
> my credit card. If I have one, I don't know what it is. That was as
> recent as this year.

I use my debit card in supermarkets two of three times a week and
occasionally I have to insert my PIN (which I do remember). I presume it
is some check to make sure it is still me using the card.

In article <rxsxEy.1y5M@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>
> (Hal Heydt)
> If I encounter some place that will *only* accept cards, that
> will be a place I won't do business with. And--just as an
> FYI--US paper currency has "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL
> DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE" printed on it, so a case can be
> made that refusing to accept cash is illegal.

Not the case in the UK. To quote from Wikipedia:

"Legal tender is solely for the guaranteed settlement of debts, and does
not imply a right to pay with cash in other contexts.[1] There is a
misconception that somebody due to be paid a certain amount of money�such
as a shopkeeper�must accept legal tender if proffered for payment;[37] in
reality the payee may choose to refuse or accept any specific type of
payment, whether legal tender or not.[38] As a specific instance,
following the outbreak in 2020 of the covid pandemic, many shops chose
not to accept any form of cash due to the risk of infection, accepting
payment cards only.[39]"

Footnote 39 is a newspaper item saying that many shops have decided to
remain card only after restrictions were lifted.

On 7/15/23 7:34 AM, Paul Dormer wrote:
> In article <m28rbib7qe.fsf@kelutral.omcl.org>, spcoltri@omcl.org (Steve
> Coltrin) wrote:
>
>>
>> In Ireland the other Worldcon week, I used Apple Pay *everywhere*
>> (except the time I used cash just for the experience of paying in
>> physical euro), and I never once even had to think about things. Find
>> the symbol, blip my watch, bim bam boom.
>
> I finally got round to buying a smart phone just before Christmas after
> Dublin and didn't know anything about paying with a phone. Then my
> sister came visiting about eighteen months later and we were in a café
> and she paid with her phone (an Apple). I checked my Android phone and
> found Googlepay and installed it, only to fine the phone doesn't have the
> necessary chip to do payments. :-( (It also doesn't have a compass. No
> use when paying, but would be useful when walking.)

Inspired by this discussion, I decided to try again to set up Google Pay
on my Samsung phone. A couple of years ago I tried and ran into various
complications. This time everything apparently went smoothly for adding
a card, then when I opened the app again it asked for my Google Pay PIN.
Nothing before that had me set one up, unless I carelessly skipped over
a step.

A Web search turns up advice that I can set up the PIN from the Google
Pay app, but I can't do _anything_ from the app without the PIN. Nor can
I find any way to set a PIN up from the browser. So I'm stuck again.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

On 15/07/2023 21:34, Paul Dormer wrote:
> In article <u8sbp5$4bn7$1@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath)
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'd forgotten to mention that some vending devices wanted a PIN with
>> my credit card. If I have one, I don't know what it is. That was as
>> recent as this year.
>
> I use my debit card in supermarkets two of three times a week and
> occasionally I have to insert my PIN (which I do remember). I presume it
> is some check to make sure it is still me using the card.

There is usually a maximum no-PIN value, here in Oz it's $100.

The banks put it up to $200 during the worst of COVID, but it's been
back down for a while now.

It's presumably mentioned in the T&C for your debit card, which you
haven't read. Nobody has read them. ;-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)

On 7/15/23 9:29 AM, Gary McGath wrote:

> Inspired by this discussion, I decided to try again to set up Google Pay
> on my Samsung phone. A couple of years ago I tried and ran into various
> complications. This time everything apparently went smoothly for adding
> a card, then when I opened the app again it asked for my Google Pay PIN.
> Nothing before that had me set one up, unless I carelessly skipped over
> a step.
>
> A Web search turns up advice that I can set up the PIN from the Google
> Pay app, but I can't do _anything_ from the app without the PIN. Nor can
> I find any way to set a PIN up from the browser. So I'm stuck again.
>

Eventually I found a Google support page that explained it was asking
for my _device_ PIN. Entering it worked.

That strikes me as a horrible security feature. Encouraging users to
give their device PIN to apps is just wrong. And why does the app even
know my PIN?

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com