It's good to see more posts in this newsgroup. But only if they're on
topic. On topic means they involve conventions, fanzines, members of
fandom, or other things of interest to members of fandom. There's a
lot of tolerance for other topics, as there should be, but there
shouldn't be unlimited tolerance.

Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific long-running
British TV show have almost completely taken over this newsgroup. I
count 345 such posts so far, and they show no signs of slowing, or of
making any attempt to show any fannish nexus. They don't even bother
to trim quoted text: Some long URLs have appeared as many as 25 times.

So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
them to please get off our lawn.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> It's good to see more posts in this newsgroup. But only if they're
> on topic. On topic means they involve conventions, fanzines,
> members of fandom, or other things of interest to members of
> fandom. There's a lot of tolerance for other topics, as there
> should be, but there shouldn't be unlimited tolerance.
>
> Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific
> long-running British TV show have almost completely taken over this
> newsgroup.

Do you mean, "the longest running sci-fi show in the Universe"?!!!

> I count 345 such posts so far, and they show no signs
> of slowing, or of making any attempt to show any fannish nexus.
> They don't even bother to trim quoted text: Some long URLs have
> appeared as many as 25 times.
>
> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
> them to please get off our lawn.

Requesting people not to post to a certain newsgroup could result in
people of mischievous minds posting even more!

Good luck with that. ;-)

On 11/25/23 10:46 AM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific long-running
> British TV show have almost completely taken over this newsgroup. I
> count 345 such posts so far, and they show no signs of slowing, or of
> making any attempt to show any fannish nexus. They don't even bother
> to trim quoted text: Some long URLs have appeared as many as 25 times.
>
> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
> them to please get off our lawn.

Are they? With the filters I've set, it's been a while since I've seen
any. For the past week, activity on this group just seems to have slowed
down.

I'm reminded of things like the "Pearl Jam Rules" battle of decades ago,
where trolls would crosspost nonsense to lots of newsgroups, idiots or
perhaps other trolls would argue with them, and all attempts to persuade
them to stop just added to the noise.

Killfiles are your friend.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

On Nov 25, 2023, Keith F. Lynch wrote
(in article <ujt4ta$cer$1@reader2.panix.com>):

> It's good to see more posts in this newsgroup. But only if they're on
> topic. On topic means they involve conventions, fanzines, members of
> fandom, or other things of interest to members of fandom. There's a
> lot of tolerance for other topics, as there should be, but there
> shouldn't be unlimited tolerance.
>
> Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific long-running
> British TV show have almost completely taken over this newsgroup. I
> count 345 such posts so far, and they show no signs of slowing, or of
> making any attempt to show any fannish nexus. They don't even bother
> to trim quoted text: Some long URLs have appeared as many as 25 times.
>
> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
> them to please get off our lawn.

Boyo, the vast majority of the xposts are:

1. posted by someone calling himself ’the doctor’

2. xposted to rec.arts.drwho and/or uk.media.tv.sf.drwho

A properly formatted killfile eats at least 95% of the posts. Problem done.

On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 11:16:55 -0500, Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com>
wrote:

>On 11/25/23 10:46 AM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>
>> Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific long-running
>> British TV show have almost completely taken over this newsgroup. I
>> count 345 such posts so far, and they show no signs of slowing, or of
>> making any attempt to show any fannish nexus. They don't even bother
>> to trim quoted text: Some long URLs have appeared as many as 25 times.
>>
>> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
>> them to please get off our lawn.
>
>Are they? With the filters I've set, it's been a while since I've seen
>any. For the past week, activity on this group just seems to have slowed
>down.
>
>I'm reminded of things like the "Pearl Jam Rules" battle of decades ago,
>where trolls would crosspost nonsense to lots of newsgroups, idiots or
>perhaps other trolls would argue with them, and all attempts to persuade
>them to stop just added to the noise.
>
>Killfiles are your friend.

And Doctor Who is on topic.
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

In article <fuk4mi5uqimpk7dc0o2m80eo2nv7q8to61@4ax.com>,
Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 11:16:55 -0500, Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 11/25/23 10:46 AM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>
>>> Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific long-running
>>> British TV show have almost completely taken over this newsgroup. I
>>> count 345 such posts so far, and they show no signs of slowing, or of
>>> making any attempt to show any fannish nexus. They don't even bother
>>> to trim quoted text: Some long URLs have appeared as many as 25 times.
>>>
>>> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
>>> them to please get off our lawn.
>>
>>Are they? With the filters I've set, it's been a while since I've seen
>>any. For the past week, activity on this group just seems to have slowed
>>down.
>>
>>I'm reminded of things like the "Pearl Jam Rules" battle of decades ago,
>>where trolls would crosspost nonsense to lots of newsgroups, idiots or
>>perhaps other trolls would argue with them, and all attempts to persuade
>>them to stop just added to the noise.
>>
>>Killfiles are your friend.
>
>And Doctor Who is on topic.

Correct!

>--
>
>Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.
>
>Tim Merrigan
>
>--
>This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
>www.avg.com

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <nnd$44a47813$311bebc0@8292a2b4ecdeb729>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>
>> It's good to see more posts in this newsgroup. But only if they're
>> on topic. On topic means they involve conventions, fanzines,
>> members of fandom, or other things of interest to members of
>> fandom. There's a lot of tolerance for other topics, as there
>> should be, but there shouldn't be unlimited tolerance.
>>
>> Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific
>> long-running British TV show have almost completely taken over this
>> newsgroup.
>
>Do you mean, "the longest running sci-fi show in the Universe"?!!!
>
>> I count 345 such posts so far, and they show no signs
>> of slowing, or of making any attempt to show any fannish nexus.
>> They don't even bother to trim quoted text: Some long URLs have
>> appeared as many as 25 times.
>>
>> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
>> them to please get off our lawn.
>
>Requesting people not to post to a certain newsgroup could result in
>people of mischievous minds posting even more!
>
>Good luck with that. ;-)
>

No wonder you are known as BS.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <ujt4ta$cer$1@reader2.panix.com>,
Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>It's good to see more posts in this newsgroup. But only if they're on
>topic. On topic means they involve conventions, fanzines, members of
>fandom, or other things of interest to members of fandom. There's a
>lot of tolerance for other topics, as there should be, but there
>shouldn't be unlimited tolerance.
>
>Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific long-running
>British TV show have almost completely taken over this newsgroup. I
>count 345 such posts so far, and they show no signs of slowing, or of
>making any attempt to show any fannish nexus. They don't even bother
>to trim quoted text: Some long URLs have appeared as many as 25 times.
>
>So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
>them to please get off our lawn.
>--
>Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
>Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keep the content relevant.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 15:46:50 -0000 (UTC), Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> It's good to see more posts in this newsgroup. But only if they're on
> topic. On topic means they involve conventions, fanzines, members of
> fandom, or other things of interest to members of fandom. There's a
> lot of tolerance for other topics, as there should be, but there
> shouldn't be unlimited tolerance.
>
> Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific long-running
> British TV show have almost completely taken over this newsgroup.

It is a long-standing net-kook, called David Yadallee (aka Yads),
that is starting all the cross-posting (and not just to this group).
Others either don't notice or don't trim the newsgroups lines.

> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
> them to please get off our lawn.

It will not work. People have asked until they are blue in the face
to keep the newsgroups line down to the most relevant groups.
I think you will have to resort to killfiles.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>And Doctor Who is on topic.
>
>Correct!

Not really. This is a group not about SF itself but about fandom, so it is
a meta-SF group. If these were postings of Dr. Who conventions or about
Dr. Who fans, that would be on-topic. But postings just about Dr. Who
programs aren't really.

So yeah, I think I am going to killfile this stuff, and I think most of us
in this group would appreciate if it wasn't crossposted here.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Tim Merrigan wrote:
>
> And Doctor Who is on topic.

I would have thought so, as SF newsgroups could be seen as part of
Doctor Who fandom.

Doctor Who is a sci-fi show and we are fans talking about the show.
<shrugs>

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <nnd$44a47813$311bebc0@8292a2b4ecdeb729>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> >>
> >> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to
> >> ask them to please get off our lawn.
> >
> > Requesting people not to post to a certain newsgroup could result
> > in people of mischievous minds posting even more!
> >
> > Good luck with that. ;-)
>
> No wonder you are known as BS.

Yes Dave, I did actually mean YOU. So thanks for proving my point...

Andy Leighton wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 15:46:50 -0000 (UTC), Keith F. Lynch
> <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >
> > Starting in September, crossposts relating to a specific
> > long-running British TV show have almost completely taken over
> > this newsgroup.
>
> It is a long-standing net-kook, called David Yadallee (aka Yads),
> that is starting all the cross-posting (and not just to this group).
> Others either don't notice or don't trim the newsgroups lines.
>
> > So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
> > them to please get off our lawn.
>
> It will not work. People have asked until they are blue in the face
> to keep the newsgroups line down to the most relevant groups.
> I think you will have to resort to killfiles.

And not being funny, but Doctor Who clearly is on topic so providing
the posts ARE relevant they are fine. Plus there is no Boss of
rec.arts.sf.fandom to dictate on who can post here.

This is Usenet, filters and killfiles are the only way to have a
pleasant experience using it.

On 11/25/23 5:01 PM, Blueshirt wrote:
> And not being funny, but Doctor Who clearly is on topic so providing
> the posts ARE relevant they are fine. Plus there is no Boss of
> rec.arts.sf.fandom to dictate on who can post here.
>
> This is Usenet, filters and killfiles are the only way to have a
> pleasant experience using it.

I don't currently have any of those posts visible to check, but at least
some of the earlier ones were posted to lots of newsgroups. Except in
the most unusual circumstances, I consider anything cross-posted to more
than three newsgroups to be bad netiquette and worthy of filtering out.
Thunderbird lets me ignore a whole thread with a click.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

Gary McGath wrote:

> On 11/25/23 5:01 PM, Blueshirt wrote:
> >
> > This is Usenet, filters and killfiles are the only way to have a
> > pleasant experience using it.
>
> I don't currently have any of those posts visible to check, but at
> least some of the earlier ones were posted to lots of newsgroups.
> Except in the most unusual circumstances, I consider anything
> cross-posted to more than three newsgroups to be bad netiquette and
> worthy of filtering out. Thunderbird lets me ignore a whole thread
> with a click.

Yes, the excessive cross-posting is bad form and that is the work of
one man!

The evidence is there for all to see with his Doctor Who "review"
post from earlier, which is cross-posted to six newsgroups.

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
> Not really. This is a group not about SF itself but about fandom,
> so it is a meta-SF group. If these were postings of Dr. Who
> conventions or about Dr. Who fans, that would be on-topic. But
> postings just about Dr. Who programs aren't really.

Or better yet, if they were about Dr. Who related events in general SF
conventions. The upcoming Worldcon will be in Britain, for the first
time in a decade. If writers or actors from that show will appear at
that convention, it would be good to post that fact here.

But if everyone here who didn't want to read vast numbers of off-topic
messages were to simply killfile every mention of Dr. Who, as has been
recommended, then we'd never see that one on-topic post.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> Doctor Who is a sci-fi show and we are fans talking about the show.

Exactly. About the show, not about its fandom. And even if you were
talking about its fandom, it doesn't outweigh the rest of fandom put
together, so it shouldn't drown out everything else in this newsgroup.

Several people have suggested simply killfiling (blocking) all mentions
of Dr. Who. But if we did that, then we'd miss the rare on-topic message
that involves that show or its fandom. For instance if the actor who
plays the doctor's current incarnation will be at the upcoming Worldcon,
you could post that here, but nobody would see it, since we would have
long since blocked all messages mentioning that show.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Doctor Who is a sci-fi show and we are fans talking about the
> > show.
>
> Exactly. About the show, not about its fandom. And even if you
> were talking about its fandom, it doesn't outweigh the rest of
> fandom put together, so it shouldn't drown out everything else in
> this newsgroup.
That's fair enough.

Although it is good to see this group get a bit more traffic than
usual... so maybe judging individual posters and the content of their
messages - in conjunction with the use of a killfile - is the way to
go?

On Nov 25, 2023, Keith F. Lynch wrote
(in article <ujtv0l$dic$2@reader2.panix.com>):

> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Doctor Who is a sci-fi show and we are fans talking about the show.
>
> Exactly. About the show, not about its fandom. And even if you were
> talking about its fandom, it doesn't outweigh the rest of fandom put
> together, so it shouldn't drown out everything else in this newsgroup.
>
> Several people have suggested simply killfiling (blocking) all mentions

silly boy.

I, for one, suggested killfiling based on specific criteria: that the poster
was ’the doctor’ and/or that xposts go to two specific newsgroups. If you
do that, then Dr. Who posts sent just to this group, presumably on-topic, go
through without any trouble while the nutcase’s posts vanish.

You could also tell the kf to kill any posts to more than, say, three or four
groups. That’d kill a bunch of posts, too.
>
> of Dr. Who. But if we did that, then we'd miss the rare on-topic message
> that involves that show or its fandom.

not if you set your kf up properly.
> For instance if the actor who
> plays the doctor's current incarnation will be at the upcoming Worldcon,
> you could post that here, but nobody would see it, since we would have
> long since blocked all messages mentioning that show.

only if you’re an idiot.

which you are.

Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>But if everyone here who didn't want to read vast numbers of off-topic
>messages were to simply killfile every mention of Dr. Who, as has been
>recommended, then we'd never see that one on-topic post.

That would be a bad move. Just killfile anything with more than two
commas in the Newsgroups: line and regexp your way to a cleaner newsgroup.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 15:46:50 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
<kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

> So if nobody objects, I plan to post to the relevant groups to ask
> them to please get off our lawn.

Dr. Who threads are easy to skip over.

Including this one.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

In article <ujt6ln$2ru3l$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>I'm reminded of things like the "Pearl Jam Rules" battle of decades ago,
>where trolls would crosspost nonsense to lots of newsgroups, idiots or
>perhaps other trolls would argue with them, and all attempts to persuade
>them to stop just added to the noise.
>
>Killfiles are your friend.

Or (much like this issue) way back when The Wheel Of Time ate all
of rec.arts.sf.written. No fault of the people posting those; it
was clearly on-topic, I just had no interest in it.

I wrote a set of kill files to de-Wheel my Usenet, and it worked
great. I'm considering doing it here for the Who stuff. I enjoyed
the pre-hiatus Who, but the new stuff, for the most part, just
doesn't grab me.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

In article <uk3rjk$5a0m$1@dont-email.me>,
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>In article <ujt6ln$2ru3l$1@dont-email.me>,
>Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>>I'm reminded of things like the "Pearl Jam Rules" battle of decades ago,
>>where trolls would crosspost nonsense to lots of newsgroups, idiots or
>>perhaps other trolls would argue with them, and all attempts to persuade
>>them to stop just added to the noise.
>>
>>Killfiles are your friend.
>
>Or (much like this issue) way back when The Wheel Of Time ate all
>of rec.arts.sf.written. No fault of the people posting those; it
>was clearly on-topic, I just had no interest in it.
>
>I wrote a set of kill files to de-Wheel my Usenet, and it worked
>great. I'm considering doing it here for the Who stuff. I enjoyed
>the pre-hiatus Who, but the new stuff, for the most part, just
>doesn't grab me.

Just kill anything posted to at least three groups at a time. Search for
two or more commas in the newsgroup line and it will all go away. In
general this is a beneficial thing on most Usenet groups. Anything that
extensively crossposted probably shouldn't have been.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article <uk4o10$k1$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>Just kill anything posted to at least three groups at a time. Search for
>two or more commas in the newsgroup line and it will all go away. In
>general this is a beneficial thing on most Usenet groups. Anything that
>extensively crossposted probably shouldn't have been.

The way I used to do it in trn:

/,.*,/KHNewsgroups:,

That will kill anything posted to more than two newsgroups, and all
replies to any such message, and put a copy of the kill file line
into the group's permanent kill file.

What I just did here:

/drwho/KHNewsgroups:,

Which kills anything crossposted to any of the drwho groups.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
> Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>> Just kill anything posted to at least three groups at a time.
>> Search for two or more commas in the newsgroup line and it will
>> all go away. In general this is a beneficial thing on most Usenet
>> groups. Anything that extensively crossposted probably shouldn't
>> have been.

> The way I used to do it in trn:
> /,.*,/KHNewsgroups:,

The three of us can easily do that. But what about the many Usenet
users who can't, e.g. those who use a web interface? The 616 (so far)
messages crossposted into rasff from that TV show's group are likely
to drive away every rasff regular who doesn't have access to killfiles,
as they greatly outnumber messages about conventions, fanzines, and
members of fandom.

It's also likely to get every rasff regular to hate that show, or at
least its fans.

So again I ask fans of the show to please use only the appropriate
newsgroup. Unless they want to be thought to be inconsiderate assholes.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.