Melmoth?

On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 07:06:00 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> Melmoth?

Just the police being heavy handed again, but in this case a wholly unnecessary killing.

I lived for a few years in France around the end of the 60s and early 70s, and had a girlfriend from Marseilles who was a real soixante-huitarde. We made and sold jewellery on the Cote d'Azur and from time to time witnessed the CRS breaking up demonstrations, like when the farmers dumped all their melons in a pyramid on the town square because they couldn't sell them. The CRS had an appalling reputation and when they appeared you sought cover if you had any sense.

The latest shooting incident was just an ordinary policeman, I believe, but France clearly has issues.

On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:31:18 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 07:06:00 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > Melmoth?
>
> Just the police being heavy handed again,
> but in this case a wholly unnecessary killing.
>
> The latest shooting incident was just an
> ordinary policeman, I believe, but France
> clearly has issues.

Why do the French put up with Le Macaron?

dk

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 10:04:21 UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:31:18 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 07:06:00 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > Melmoth?
> >
> > Just the police being heavy handed again,
> > but in this case a wholly unnecessary killing.
> >
> > The latest shooting incident was just an
> > ordinary policeman, I believe, but France
> > clearly has issues.
> Why do the French put up with Le Macaron?
>
> dk

Maybe because Le Pen was the other option.

Ray Hall, Taree

On 7/2/2023 9:41 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 10:04:21 UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:31:18 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 07:06:00 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>> Melmoth?
>>>
>>> Just the police being heavy handed again,
>>> but in this case a wholly unnecessary killing.
>>>
>>> The latest shooting incident was just an
>>> ordinary policeman, I believe, but France
>>> clearly has issues.
>> Why do the French put up with Le Macaron?
>>
>> dk
>
> Maybe because Le Pen was the other option.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

After this, Le Pen, or somebody similar might be more attractive to voters. The major media seems not to be covering it, but the crowds are shouting a*t*s*e*m*t*c slogans and attacking Jewish institutions.

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 03:03:57 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> The major media seems not to be covering it, but the crowds are shouting a*t*s*e*m*t*c slogans and attacking Jewish institutions.

How do you know this? But anyway, from what I read

"Since the end of the war, antisemitic violence has never completely disappeared. It comes and goes in cycles,
The peaks of violence have followed Israeli Defence Force interventions in the occupied territories. Widely publicised by the media, resulting civilian deaths function as an emotional trigger among those who for reasons of origin or ideology identify with the Palestinians and project their resentment against French Jews who are simply
assumed to be supporters of Israel and Zionism".

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Religion/Submissions/NonnaMayer2.pdf

Violence against Jews is something nobody should support, just like violence against women, blacks or any other ethnic groups. Lets's make that completely clear. But non-violent mass demonstrations against the actions of the State of Israel are entirely understandable. Frank's interpretation of events in the West Bank are a world away from those of a large part of the international community, who see Netanyahu's regime as a bunch of murdering carpetbaggers. A lot of people are not going to remain silent about the violent invasion of the West Bank, which they see as war crimes. Their frustration is only increased by the fact that their governments refuse to publicly censor the invasion. So some of the responsibility lies with government policies, hence the demonstrations.

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:20:42 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> Frank's interpretation of events in the West Bank are a world
>

Frank knows far more about day to day life and events in Israel
than you do. And he knows what he knows first hand rather than
through the filters or traditionally anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic
Western European papers.

> away from those of a large part of the international community,

The "international community" doesn't know shit about what really
goes on in Israel. On must be seriously deranged to think otherwise.

You have every right to fuck your own brain as much as you like, but
you have absolutely no rights to fuck other people's brains. STFU !!!

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 10:57:38 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:

There is mass international criticism of Israel's invasion of the Left Bank which is getting worse and worse and which is steadily adding up to war crimes.

As usual you think you're right and the rest of the world can go to hell.

Could it be that it's actually the other way around......

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:57:38 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> You have every right to fuck your own brain as much as you like, but
> you have absolutely no rights to fuck other people's brains. STFU !!!

RMCR owner speaking?

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 3:13:46 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 10:57:38 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> There is mass international criticism of

Yada, yada. Millions parroting one another
does not amount to "mass criticism".

> Israel's invasion of the Left Bank

Hold it! Israel did not "invade" the Left Bank.
It was ATTACKED by Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.
In fact, Golda Meir met with King Hussein in
secret days before the war started to ask him
to stay out of the fracas, and promised Israel
would not attack if he stayed put. This is so
well known and widely documented that to
ignore it amounts to deliberate provocation.
Read som ehistory, man.

> which is getting worse and worse and which
> is steadily adding up to war crimes.

Parroting Palestinian Propaganda?

> As usual you think you're right

As usual, I know what I am talking about.
As usual, you don't.

> and the rest of the world can go to hell.

The "rest of the world" has no business
trying to adjudicate a conflict they either
do not understand, or actually triggered.
> Could it be that it's actually the other
> way around......

Brainfucked imbecile and terrorist.

GO FUCK YOURSELF !!!

On 7/3/2023 4:20 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 03:03:57 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> The major media seems not to be covering it, but the crowds are shouting a*t*s*e*m*t*c slogans and attacking Jewish institutions.
>
> How do you know this? But anyway, from what I read
>
> "Since the end of the war, antisemitic violence has never completely disappeared. It comes and goes in cycles,
> The peaks of violence have followed Israeli Defence Force interventions in the occupied territories. Widely publicised by the media, resulting civilian deaths function as an emotional trigger among those who for reasons of origin or ideology identify with the Palestinians and project their resentment against French Jews who are simply
> assumed to be supporters of Israel and Zionism".
>
> https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Religion/Submissions/NonnaMayer2.pdf
>
> Violence against Jews is something nobody should support, just like violence against women, blacks or any other ethnic groups. Lets's make that completely clear. But non-violent mass demonstrations against the actions of the State of Israel are entirely understandable. Frank's interpretation of events in the West Bank are a world away from those of a large part of the international community, who see Netanyahu's regime as a bunch of murdering carpetbaggers. A lot of people are not going to remain silent about the violent invasion of the West Bank, which they see as war crimes. Their frustration is only increased by the fact that their governments refuse to publicly censor the invasion. So some of the responsibility lies with government policies, hence the demonstrations.

So despite saying violence against French Jews is not justifiable, you come within a hair[s breadth of condoning it.

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 13:21:05 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:

> So despite saying violence against French Jews is not justifiable, you come within a hair[s breadth of condoning it.

No, that's not true. What I said was that non-violent mass demonstrations are understandable in this case. As you well know, there are mass demonstrations in Israel against the government. It's not just a French issue.

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 12:53:31 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote.....

However loudly you shout it doesn't make you any more right.

The idea that "you have to know the country to arrive at the correct political viewpoint" is laughable. Why does every country have right and left political parties that don't agree with each other if they all "know the country" perfectly well?

You have one interpretation of the Israeli conflict, others have other interpretations. The idea that you're right because you "know the country" is a purely juvenile piece of sloppy thinking.

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:53:31 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> As usual, I know what I am talking about.
> As usual, you don't.

> Brainfucked imbecile and terrorist.
>
> GO FUCK YOURSELF !!!

Sez Mr I get all my information from youtube

On 7/3/2023 8:42 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 12:53:31 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote.....
>
> However loudly you shout it doesn't make you any more right.
>
> The idea that "you have to know the country to arrive at the correct political viewpoint" is laughable. Why does every country have right and left political parties that don't agree with each other if they all "know the country" perfectly well?
i Are you aware that there is little difference between the moderate left and the moderate right in Israeli politics when it comes to the defense of Israeli citizens and it is the right that made peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan? I've said this before but you never respond, preferring to demonize the "current government."

>
> You have one interpretation of the Israeli conflict, others have other interpretations. The idea that you're right because you "know the country" is a purely juvenile piece of sloppy thinking.
>

Sloppy thinking is that the Palestinian leadership even wants a two-state solution, and that thinking that a two-state solution is even possible.

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:05:35 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
........ I've said this before but you never respond, preferring to demonize the "current government."
> >

Frank, I'm completely aware that you are heavily invested in Israel and that you love the country.

But I can't see any way of justifying the invasion of the West Bank and the number of Palestinians who are being killed day by day just for protesting against the illegal occupation of the land they live in and the relentless advance of new homes built on their land. I know you're going to tell me it's not their land, but I just don't buy that, and neither do many, many others including the UN itself. You will then tell me that the UN is biased, and so it goes on.

On 7/3/2023 8:37 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 13:21:05 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> So despite saying violence against French Jews is not justifiable, you come within a hair[s breadth of condoning it.
>
> No, that's not true. What I said was that non-violent mass demonstrations are understandable in this case. As you well know, there are mass demonstrations in Israel against the government. It's not just a French issue.

There are also almost as large mass demonstrations in favor of the government and judicial reform. Perhaps if you were more educated about Israeli society and/or read middle of the road or even conservative leaning media, you might learn something.

Simply, there is simply no one for Israel to even talk to about a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. No one in Palestinian leadership wants anything than to destroy Israel. Until there is Palestinian leadership that is sincere about existing peacefully (and can enforce that) with Israel, there is simply nothing for Israel to talk about. The Islamic Jihad, Hamas Hezbollah and other groups, supported by Iran are waging war on Israel, not to get possession of the West Bank (they already have Gaza, because Israel gave it to them). They have been designated "terrorist groups" by much of the international community you love to cite.

More points. When terrorists fire rockets from within civilian areas, like apartment building rooftops, the Geneva Convention holds that as a war crime, the targeted entity has the legal right to respond, even though the likelihood of civilian casualties is high. Do you know that? You never engage in discussing details. Do you think Israel should just allow the civilian populations to be subject to rocket fire?

Why do the Palestinians have a greater claim to the West Bank than Israel? Make your own judgement. Look at the history. Don't cite the "international community." Most of them have given up on the Palestinians anyway. It's only the General Assembly, with it's myriad little Arab and African countries that constitutes your "international community" anyway.

If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first place, or at least are uncomfortable with it. You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why. It follow than that since bad old Israel is stealing the Palestinian's land, and the only thing they can do about it is terrorism, then terrorism is "understandable," which really means sort of OK. What you don't get is that the facts the Palestinian leadership is to blame for the lack of progress in negotiating peace with Israel. I would bet that if the Jewish Israeli population had good reason to believe a Palestinian state would exist in peace with them, I bet 75% of them would support such a state.

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:

> If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.

No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.

< You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.

The reason why is that the land is lived on by Palestinians, whose homes are being destroyed by the encroaching settlers.

<I would bet that if the Jewish Israeli population had good reason to believe a Palestinian state would exist in peace with them, I bet 75% of them would support such a state.

Netanyahu and his supporters have made it perfectly clear that there will never be a partition with the Palestinians.

On 7/3/2023 12:32 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.
>
> No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.

Yes, there are about 2,000,000 Arab citizens of Israel, who have full legal and civil rights, and who, for the most part, do not commit acts of terrorism. So the basis for your view is that the Palestinians are there (in the West Bank), and you ignore the history of the area. I thought you were more thoughfull than that.

>
> < You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.
>
> The reason why is that the land is lived on by Palestinians, whose homes are being destroyed by the encroaching settlers.
>

Not really true. Israel is establishes "settlements" on land that is not occupied by Palestinians. Your facts are simply wrong.

> <I would bet that if the Jewish Israeli population had good reason to believe a Palestinian state would exist in peace with them, I bet 75% of them would support such a state.
>
> Netanyahu and his supporters have made it perfectly clear that there will never be a partition with the Palestinians.

Neither of us will be alive to see the day that an agreement is reached, most likely by a conservative government. Everybody always says that Israeli settlements are an "obstacle to peace." That is ridiculous. The opposite is true. The only thing that could encourage the Palestinians to actually negotiate would be the fear of losing too much territory if they don't.
I predict that the solution will be a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation that includes much of the West Bank. You know, or you should, that Jordan was carved out of then-Palestine in 1917 (amounting to 78% of then-Palestine and there is no distinction culturally and religiously between the Palestinians and the majority of Jordanians.

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 18:08:59 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> Neither of us will be alive to see the day that an agreement is reached..

That's for sure...

> I predict that the solution will be a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation that includes much of the West Bank. You know, or you should, that Jordan was carved out of then-Palestine in 1917 (amounting to 78% of then-Palestine and there is no distinction culturally and religiously between the Palestinians and the majority of Jordanians.

That's an interesting point of view, and one which seems plausible to me. Thanks for that.

On 7/3/2023 1:21 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 18:08:59 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> Neither of us will be alive to see the day that an agreement is reached..
>
> That's for sure...
>
>> I predict that the solution will be a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation that includes much of the West Bank. You know, or you should, that Jordan was carved out of then-Palestine in 1917 (amounting to 78% of then-Palestine and there is no distinction culturally and religiously between the Palestinians and the majority of Jordanians.
>
> That's an interesting point of view, and one which seems plausible to me. Thanks for that.

The proposal for a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation comes from a Saudi Arabian prince. The mainstream media and politicians have completely ignored this proposal, being so heavily invested in the two-state solution.

You didn't comment on the facts I presented, which means there already is a Palestinian state, called Jordan which comprises 78% of historical Palestine. I wonder if you know that there was no place called Palestine, until the Romans destroyed the Jewish state and renamed it "Palestine" (derived from Philistine, the Philistines having nothing to do with anything).

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 10:08:59 AM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/3/2023 12:32 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > < You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.
> >
> > The reason why is that the land is lived on by Palestinians, whose homes are being destroyed by the encroaching settlers.
> >
> Not really true. Israel is establishes "settlements" on land that is not occupied by Palestinians. Your facts are simply wrong.

It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!

dk

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 20:33:18 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
>
> dk

You really have no idea, do you.......

This is completely unintelligible, and not for the first time.

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 9:32:03 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that
> > you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first
> > place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.
>
> No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would
> not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.

This is beyond bizarre. Brits are not the only people living in the
UK. By your argument, every one of UK's tribes deserves a state
of their own. Why doesn't the UK split itself apart into Scotland,
Wales, and whatever else is left? Fix your own problems before
lecturing others!

dk

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 5:37:14 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 13:21:05 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > So despite saying violence against French Jews is not justifiable,
> > you come within a hair[s breadth of condoning it.
>
> No, that's not true. What I said was that non-violent mass demonstrations
> are understandable in this case. As you well know, there are mass
> demonstrations in Israel against the government. It's not just a
> French issue.

But they are not the same government!
You need to trim your brush. Your logic
is broken!

dk