https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music

On 8/2/23 9:16 AM, Mr. Mike wrote:
> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music

Well, dang.

"Streaming technology is environmentally destructive, resulting in the release of up to 1.57 million metric tons of carbon per day. "

For all those RMCR-ers (2) who keep posting youtube links, saying you're in a cave if you don't join the YT future blabla.

On 2023-08-02 14:16:14 +0000, Mr. Mike said:

> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
>

Behind a paywall.

-Owen

"The downside of this information overload is a familiar one: with myriad possibilities accessible at the flick of a finger, it becomes harder to concentrate on a single album or on a single work. Gluttony takes hold, indigestion sets in. For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the experience is finite and complete, with silence on both ends."

On 8/2/2023 10:53 AM, Owen Hartnett wrote:
> On 2023-08-02 14:16:14 +0000, Mr. Mike said:
>
>> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
>
> Behind a paywall.
>
> -Owen
>

I was able to read it. I'm sorry I did. Don't know why it worked for me and not you. (accessed via computer not phone, if that makes the difference).

Op woensdag 2 augustus 2023 om 16:16:47 UTC+2 schreef Mr. Mike:
> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music

Thanks. Interesting article.

Henk

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> "The downside of this information overload is a familiar one: with myriad possibilities accessible at the flick of a finger, it becomes harder to concentrate on a single album or on a single work. Gluttony takes hold, indigestion sets in. For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the experience is finite and complete, with silence on both ends."

Very well said Herman. I’ve thought about this a great deal. Imagine a very young person, with an interest in classical music, looking up a certain piece and finding 278 different recordings. Performers become like names in a telephone directory. It’s overload for a young person - it makes it all the more difficult to focus as you say. Maybe one good thing about it is that CDs are very difficult to recycle. Less of them might help a little bit.

In article <3635c25b-2ce0-480e-bb47-0fe1d45cace2n@googlegroups.com>,
JohnGavin <dagdern@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
>For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the experience is
>finite and complete, with silence on both ends.

It was really the shift in review copies that got me to use more
digital formats.... (And now the higher resolution formats in many
cases.) It starts to seem convenient after a while, at least for
someone actively involved in music, but I agree about this "continuous
play" feature that some services use. I make sure I'm only hearing
what I consciously choose to hear.

>Imagine a very young person, with an interest in classical music,
>looking up a certain piece and finding 278 different recordings.

As I've said here before, the volume of readily available material
means not that someone no longer needs discussion or orientation,
but often the reverse.... As a resource library, it's tremendous.

I was commenting just this past weekend in my personal life how
"music projects" have changed so much... how it used to take weeks,
maybe a couple of months, to receive a recording to audition, then
likely that interval again if there are followup materials, maybe
again....

So as a library it's great. And in the past, we wouldn't tell young
people "Here's a public library with 100k books. Have fun!" with no
other discussion....

Herman <herstx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> "The downside of this information overload is a familiar one: with myriad
> possibilities accessible at the flick of a finger, it becomes harder to
> concentrate on a single album or on a single work. Gluttony takes hold,
> indigestion sets in. For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the
> experience is finite and complete, with silence on both ends."
>

I use Apple Music, which in turn gives me access to Apple Classical and I
like it a lot. But I think I am using it different than most people. I have
a ton of CD’s which I no longer have a player for, and I have been able to
find the majority of those on Apple Music and Classical. So when I want to
hear something, I am searching for a particular CD that I already have or
have heard about. I rarely go in and just randomly search for a piece of
music. Being able to then stream it to my stereo system works great for me.

—
Paul Goodman

On 8/2/2023 11:17 AM, Herman wrote:
>
> "The downside of this information overload is a familiar one: with myriad possibilities accessible at the flick of a finger, it becomes harder to concentrate on a single album or on a single work. Gluttony takes hold, indigestion sets in. For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the experience is finite and complete, with silence on both ends."

The "problem" is pervasive in a wealthy society like ours (yes, I realize some participants might possibly be in a poverty-ridden place). Think of the varieties of laundry detergents. Tide alone must make 5 or 6 different versions). Or the number of brands and models of practically anything. Sure it can be frustrating to have to make a choice. Heck, I have a current problem of choosing warm white vs. cool white for my new recessed lights in my living room. Would we prefer to live in a world where there was little or no choice? Not me.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 6:45:59 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > "The downside of this information overload is a familiar one: with myriad possibilities accessible at the flick of a finger, it becomes harder to concentrate on a single album or on a single work. Gluttony takes hold, indigestion sets in. For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the experience is finite and complete, with silence on both ends."
> Very well said Herman. I’ve thought about this a great deal. Imagine a very young person, with an interest in classical music, looking up a certain piece and finding 278 different recordings. Performers become like names in a telephone directory. It’s overload for a young person - it makes it all the more difficult to focus as you say. Maybe one good thing about it is that CDs are very difficult to recycle. Less of them might help a little bit.

These weren't my words, but those of Alex Ross. But I quoted them because I have tried to make the same point frequently.
Listening to youtube clips makes one less likely to listen longer than a couple of minutes, or even less, because the algorythm pushes something else forward. It facilitates this quick and easy verdict mentality, in which it is no longer about the music, but about our listening acumen.

In article <27e1581c-67ec-4e98-b440-64969c0d55b3n@googlegroups.com>,
Herman <herstx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Listening to youtube clips makes one less likely to listen longer
>than a couple of minutes, or even less, because the algorythm
>pushes something else forward. It facilitates this quick and easy
>verdict mentality, in which it is no longer about the music, but
>about our listening acumen.

I did get the impression that some posters here were actually
listening to only a few seconds of much longer performances before
stating definitive opinions.... (At some level, this is shocking
to me, but I guess it should be seen as normal in our society
today....) One can of course avail oneself of a greater variety
of musical material online while refusing such nonsense, although
I do also think it's worth considering these issues for oneself
consciously.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music

In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?

In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;

(2023 Y. upload):

"$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
>
> In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
>
> (2023 Y. upload):
>
> "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"

It's very much quantity over quality.

Modern people just want more of something, more of ANYTHING.

Just so long as it's MORE.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 8:20:26 PM UTC+2, Todd M. McComb wrote:
>
> I did get the impression that some posters here were actually
> listening to only a few seconds of much longer performances before
> stating definitive opinions.... (At some level, this is shocking
> to me, but I guess it should be seen as normal in our society
> today....)

That's my impression, too.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:37:03 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> > In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
> >
> > In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
> >
> > (2023 Y. upload):
> >
> > "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"
> It's very much quantity over quality.
>
> Modern people just want more of something, more of ANYTHING.
>
> Just so long as it's MORE.

(from "Key Largo"):

Johnny Rocco: There's only one Johnny Rocco.
James Temple: How do you account for it?
Frank McCloud: He knows what he wants. Don't you, Rocco?
Johnny Rocco: Sure.
James Temple: What's that?
Frank McCloud: Tell him, Rocco.
Johnny Rocco: Well, I want uh ...
Frank McCloud: He wants more, don't you, Rocco?
Johnny Rocco: Yeah. That's it. More. That's right! I want more!
James Temple: Will you ever get enough?
Frank McCloud: Will you, Rocco?
Johnny Rocco: Well, I never have. No, I guess I won't....

On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 04:14:27 UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 6:45:59 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > "The downside of this information overload is a familiar one: with myriad possibilities accessible at the flick of a finger, it becomes harder to concentrate on a single album or on a single work. Gluttony takes hold, indigestion sets in. For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the experience is finite and complete, with silence on both ends."
> > Very well said Herman. I’ve thought about this a great deal. Imagine a very young person, with an interest in classical music, looking up a certain piece and finding 278 different recordings. Performers become like names in a telephone directory. It’s overload for a young person - it makes it all the more difficult to focus as you say. Maybe one good thing about it is that CDs are very difficult to recycle. Less of them might help a little bit.
> These weren't my words, but those of Alex Ross. But I quoted them because I have tried to make the same point frequently.
> Listening to youtube clips makes one less likely to listen longer than a couple of minutes, or even less, because the algorythm pushes something else forward. It facilitates this quick and easy verdict mentality, in which it is no longer about the music, but about our listening acumen.

I use YouTube clips this way, but solely to find out whether I'm in the right ballpark with respect to the music I believe I have the experience to make more immediate judgement upon. But this judgement will be backed up by reviews or articles about the composer. Only then will I look to buy the CD if available. Apart from which I have untold amount of music on CD I haven't even listened to, let alone the mountains of stuff I can play yet again by simply reaching up on a shelf. YouTube, and PCs are for gaining information, and do not, in my case, replace specific listening time with a CD.

I am appalled that some here might just flick a switch and just let any old waveforms 'of the moment' tickle their sense buds, and that they might actually regard this as a real listening experience.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 12:39:34 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 04:14:27 UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 6:45:59 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > > "The downside of this information overload is a familiar one: with myriad possibilities accessible at the flick of a finger, it becomes harder to concentrate on a single album or on a single work. Gluttony takes hold, indigestion sets in. For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the experience is finite and complete, with silence on both ends."
> > > Very well said Herman. I’ve thought about this a great deal. Imagine a very young person, with an interest in classical music, looking up a certain piece and finding 278 different recordings. Performers become like names in a telephone directory. It’s overload for a young person - it makes it all the more difficult to focus as you say. Maybe one good thing about it is that CDs are very difficult to recycle. Less of them might help a little bit.
> > These weren't my words, but those of Alex Ross. But I quoted them because I have tried to make the same point frequently.
> > Listening to youtube clips makes one less likely to listen longer than a couple of minutes, or even less, because the algorythm pushes something else forward. It facilitates this quick and easy verdict mentality, in which it is no longer about the music, but about our listening acumen.
> I use YouTube clips this way, but solely to find out whether I'm in the right ballpark with respect to the music I believe I have the experience to make more immediate judgement upon. But this judgement will be backed up by reviews or articles about the composer. Only then will I look to buy the CD if available. Apart from which I have untold amount of music on CD I haven't even listened to, let alone the mountains of stuff I can play yet again by simply reaching up on a shelf. YouTube, and PCs are for gaining information, and do not, in my case, replace specific listening time with a CD.
>
> I am appalled that some here might just flick a switch and just let any old waveforms 'of the moment' tickle their sense buds, and that they might actually regard this as a real listening experience.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

- A musical education is necessary for musical judgement. What most people relish is hardly music; it is rather a drowsy reverie relieved by nervous thrills.

George Santayana

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
>
> In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
>
> (2023 Y. upload):
>
> "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"

(Y. upload):

"America's Most Luxurious Buffet | $155 Spectacular Lobster Seafood Caviar Brunch"

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 2:44:48 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> > In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
> >
> > In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
> >
> > (2023 Y. upload):
> >
> > "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"
> (Y. upload):
>
> "America's Most Luxurious Buffet | $155 Spectacular Lobster Seafood Caviar Brunch"

(Y. upload):

"Is it worth it? $250 Unlimited Caviar Lobster Seafood Brunch in California, Bay Area - Ritz-Carlton"

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 2:48:01 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 2:44:48 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > > > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> > > In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
> > >
> > > In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
> > >
> > > (2023 Y. upload):
> > >
> > > "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"
> > (Y. upload):
> >
> > "America's Most Luxurious Buffet | $155 Spectacular Lobster Seafood Caviar Brunch"
> (Y. upload):
>
> "Is it worth it? $250 Unlimited Caviar Lobster Seafood Brunch in California, Bay Area - Ritz-Carlton"

"Shrinking appetite for Las Vegas buffets?...":

https://www.fox5vegas.com/2023/08/02/shrinking-appetite-las-vegas-buffets-new-operators-wont-bring-back-rios-famous-buffet/

On Wed, 02 Aug 2023 11:02:05 -0700, Frank Berger wrote:

> On 8/2/2023 11:17 AM, Herman wrote:
> >
> > "The downside of this information overload is a familiar one: with myriad possibilities accessible at the flick of a finger, it becomes harder to concentrate on a single album or on a single work. Gluttony takes hold, indigestion sets in. For that reason, I still prefer CDs or LPs: the experience is finite and complete, with silence on both ends."
>
> The "problem" is pervasive in a wealthy society like ours (yes, I realize some participants might possibly be in a poverty-ridden place). Think of the varieties of laundry detergents. Tide alone must make 5 or 6 different versions). Or the number of brands and models of practically anything. Sure it can be frustrating to have to make a choice. Heck, I have a current problem of choosing warm white vs. cool white for my new recessed lights in my living room. Would we prefer to live in a world where there was little or no choice? Not me.

There's also the illusion of consumer choice, like scores of
yogurts that are all the one type, low-fat, or shelves of
toothpastes that are all that nasty tasting "whitening" type.
I've seen that, meaning there was no choice but to leave the
supermarket empty handed, which I do often enough.

There are hundreds of toasters it seems, however they
are all wide slot, narrow slot toasters unavailable to
consumers this century, all are bagel toasters, not the
narrow slot type that's made for sliced bread. Narrow slot
toasters are unavailable at any price, not even for
restaurants. No choice, and no competition.

On Wed, 02 Aug 2023 07:53:41 -0700, Owen Hartnett wrote:

> On 2023-08-02 14:16:14 +0000, Mr. Mike said:
>
> > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
>
> Behind a paywall.

To sum up he supports Idagio and Presto and finds
the others, including Apple, spotify, etc., to be garbage.

Good streaming service + bad search engine equals bad streaming
service. I agree. Bad search engines make bad service. This
certainly also applies to amazon, arkivmusic, barnes and noble,
etc.

As he pointed out, on Qobuz a search for beethoven fifth
will not show a single relevant result:

"A search for the Beethoven Fifth brought up the disco hit "A Fifth of Beethoven," the fifteenth variation of Bach´s Goldberg Variations, and Allan Sherman´s "Beethoven´s Fifth Cha Cha"-but no recordings of the symphony."

Apple doesn't allow searching by label? Garbage!
That's like Barnes and Noble, no label searches.

On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 06:41:47 UTC+1, Pluted Pup wrote:

> There are hundreds of toasters it seems, however they
> are all wide slot, narrow slot toasters unavailable to
> consumers this century, all are bagel toasters, not the
> narrow slot type that's made for sliced bread. Narrow slot
> toasters are unavailable at any price, not even for
> restaurants. No choice, and no competition.

I've never seen a wide slot toaster. I've only ever had narrow slot toasters, which are in use daily.

But I'm in the UK....