On 8/3/2023 4:41 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 06:41:47 UTC+1, Pluted Pup wrote:
>
>> There are hundreds of toasters it seems, however they
>> are all wide slot, narrow slot toasters unavailable to
>> consumers this century, all are bagel toasters, not the
>> narrow slot type that's made for sliced bread. Narrow slot
>> toasters are unavailable at any price, not even for
>> restaurants. No choice, and no competition.
>
> I've never seen a wide slot toaster. I've only ever had narrow slot toasters, which are in use daily.
>
> But I'm in the UK....

If Pluted's observation is true it's simply because no one wants a toaster unable to toast a bagel. Who wants two toasters occupying space? Does he think it's a conspiracy or something?

On 8/3/23 8:39 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 8/3/2023 4:41 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 06:41:47 UTC+1, Pluted Pup wrote:
>>
>>> There are hundreds of toasters it seems, however they
>>> are all wide slot, narrow slot toasters unavailable to
>>> consumers this century, all are bagel toasters, not the
>>> narrow slot type that's made for sliced bread. Narrow slot
>>> toasters are unavailable at any price, not even for
>>> restaurants. No choice, and no competition.
>>
>> I've never seen a wide slot toaster. I've only ever had narrow slot
>> toasters, which are in use daily.
>>
>> But I'm in the UK....
>
>
> If Pluted's observation is true it's simply because no one wants a
> toaster unable to toast a bagel.  Who wants two toasters occupying
> space? Does he think it's a conspiracy or something?

Even a toaster is wasted space when you can make toast in a toaster oven
or something with air frying capability.

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have English muffins in England.

Back to the topic: Apple Music has Atmos, which is important to some
listeners.

On 2023-08-03 05:57:02 +0000, Pluted Pup said:

> On Wed, 02 Aug 2023 07:53:41 -0700, Owen Hartnett wrote:
>
>> On 2023-08-02 14:16:14 +0000, Mr. Mike said:
>>
>>> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
>>>
>>
>> Behind a paywall.
>
> To sum up he supports Idagio and Presto and finds
> the others, including Apple, spotify, etc., to be garbage.
>
> Good streaming service + bad search engine equals bad streaming
> service. I agree. Bad search engines make bad service. This
> certainly also applies to amazon, arkivmusic, barnes and noble,
> etc.
>
> As he pointed out, on Qobuz a search for beethoven fifth
> will not show a single relevant result:
>
> "A search for the Beethoven Fifth brought up the disco hit "A Fifth of
> Beethoven," the fifteenth variation of Bach´s Goldberg Variations, and
> Allan Sherman´s "Beethoven´s Fifth Cha Cha"-but no recordings of the
> symphony."
>
> Apple doesn't allow searching by label? Garbage!
> That's like Barnes and Noble, no label searches.

I just don't trust Apple Music to not erase all my music and substitute
their own copy protected versions which they'll erase if I stop paying.
(And I'm a long time Apple-devotee). The music app does have horrible
searching. Spotify is better, but still has issues. The original
iTunes was much better. Haven't tried the others because after paying
spotify, that pretty much is my preferred monthly payment amount for on
demand music.

-Owen

-Owen

On 2023-08-03 7:39 a.m., Frank Berger wrote:
> On 8/3/2023 4:41 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 06:41:47 UTC+1, Pluted Pup wrote:
>>
>>> There are hundreds of toasters it seems, however they
>>> are all wide slot, narrow slot toasters unavailable to
>>> consumers this century, all are bagel toasters, not the
>>> narrow slot type that's made for sliced bread. Narrow slot
>>> toasters are unavailable at any price, not even for
>>> restaurants. No choice, and no competition.
>>
>> I've never seen a wide slot toaster. I've only ever had narrow slot
>> toasters, which are in use daily.
>>
>> But I'm in the UK....
>
>
> If Pluted's observation is true it's simply because no one wants a
> toaster unable to toast a bagel.

Does toasting make a bagel edible? :-)

On 8/3/2023 1:19 PM, Graham wrote:
> On 2023-08-03 7:39 a.m., Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 8/3/2023 4:41 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 06:41:47 UTC+1, Pluted Pup wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are hundreds of toasters it seems, however they
>>>> are all wide slot, narrow slot toasters unavailable to
>>>> consumers this century, all are bagel toasters, not the
>>>> narrow slot type that's made for sliced bread. Narrow slot
>>>> toasters are unavailable at any price, not even for
>>>> restaurants. No choice, and no competition.
>>>
>>> I've never seen a wide slot toaster. I've only ever had narrow slot toasters, which are in use daily.
>>>
>>> But I'm in the UK....
>>
>>
>> If Pluted's observation is true it's simply because no one wants a toaster unable to toast a bagel.
>
> Does toasting make a bagel edible? :-)
>

It makes all the difference, though many crazy people eat them untoasted. There's also a huge difference between a good bagel and a bad bagel.

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 12:53:11 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> "Streaming technology is environmentally destructive, resulting in the release of up to 1.57 million metric tons of carbon per day. "
>
> For all those RMCR-ers (2) who keep posting youtube links, saying you're in a cave if you don't join the YT future blabla.

Am I the only man on the planet who buys downloads? Easy to buy, quick to process, available when the Internet isn't?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

In article <d54ad502-8210-49c4-a468-6148fbde6d92n@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com> wrote:
>Am I the only man on the planet who buys downloads?

No.

On 8/3/2023 9:16 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 12:53:11 AM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
>> "Streaming technology is environmentally destructive, resulting in the release of up to 1.57 million metric tons of carbon per day. "
>>
>> For all those RMCR-ers (2) who keep posting youtube links, saying you're in a cave if you don't join the YT future blabla.
>
> Am I the only man on the planet who buys downloads? Easy to buy, quick to process, available when the Internet isn't?
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

If I calculate correctly, the above carbon emission from streaming is around .04 percent (that's .0004) of the total daily carbon emissions. Humans breathing results in about 4 percent of total carbon emissions, so it would be more effective to kill off some millions of people than eliminating streaming. Just sayin'.

Regarding your question, I am a CD guy. I download if there's something I want that isn't on CD, but I usually lose track of it.

On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 10:53:41 -0400, Owen Hartnett
<ads@clipboardinc.com> wrote:

>On 2023-08-02 14:16:14 +0000, Mr. Mike said:
>
>> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
>>
>
>Behind a paywall.
>
>-Owen

To deal with paywalls (most of them):

Go to the site.

As soon as you see the article and before the paywall pop up clicks
in, do Control-A (select all) and Control-C (copy).

Open up some word processor (Word, Notepad, Write (Wordpad), etc.),
click near the top and do Control-V (paste).

There is a certain technique to doing this.

I did this for the article in question, it works for most others.

On 8/4/23 8:36 AM, Mr. Mike wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 10:53:41 -0400, Owen Hartnett
> <ads@clipboardinc.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-08-02 14:16:14 +0000, Mr. Mike said:
>>
>>> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
>>>
>>
>> Behind a paywall.
>>
>> -Owen
>
> To deal with paywalls (most of them):
>
> Go to the site.
>
> As soon as you see the article and before the paywall pop up clicks
> in, do Control-A (select all) and Control-C (copy).
>
> Open up some word processor (Word, Notepad, Write (Wordpad), etc.),
> click near the top and do Control-V (paste).
>
> There is a certain technique to doing this.
>
> I did this for the article in question, it works for most others.

Thanks! The reader mode works for some cases, but not this one.

On Thu, 03 Aug 2023 07:04:45 -0700, mINE109 wrote:

> On 8/3/23 8:39 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 8/3/2023 4:41 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 06:41:47 UTC+1, Pluted Pup wrote:
> > >
> > > > There are hundreds of toasters it seems, however they
> > > > are all wide slot, narrow slot toasters unavailable to
> > > > consumers this century, all are bagel toasters, not the
> > > > narrow slot type that's made for sliced bread. Narrow slot
> > > > toasters are unavailable at any price, not even for
> > > > restaurants. No choice, and no competition.
> > >
> > > I've never seen a wide slot toaster. I've only ever had narrow slot
> > > toasters, which are in use daily.
> > >
> > > But I'm in the UK....
> >
> >
> > If Pluted's observation is true it's simply because no one wants a
> > toaster unable to toast a bagel. Who wants two toasters occupying
> > space? Does he think it's a conspiracy or something?

Yes, a conspiracy of consolidation -- monopolization
of industry and commerce -- retail poverty --
a lack of choice masquerading as choice.

>
> Even a toaster is wasted space when you can make toast in a toaster oven
> or something with air frying capability.

A toaster is supposed to have the heating elements close
to the surface of a standard sized slice of pre-sliced
bread.

A toaster oven is not the same thing. The oven bakes,
but does not toast properly.

Perhaps a bagel or unsliced bread could be used if you
had a way to slice it as thin as pre-sliced bread,
but that stuff would work better in a toaster oven.

Reading the 15 year or so thread on ba.food educated
me on what a toaster is and does and how it is not
made anymore.

>
> I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have English muffins in England.
>
> Back to the topic: Apple Music has Atmos, which is important to some
> listeners.

Can Atmos be turned off? Otherwise that would be a
reason to avoid Apple. Music with fake surround sounds
awful.

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 11:32:25 AM UTC+10, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <d54ad502-8210-49c4...@googlegroups.com>,
> Andrew Clarke <andrewc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Am I the only man on the planet who buys downloads?
> No.

My sense of existential dread is now very considerably diminished ... There must be a few of us left, or else people like Presto wouldn't continue to make downloads available. I also like to think that the performers are making royalties from my download that is rather more than they get from a streaming service.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:29:29 PM UTC+10, Frank Berger wrote:

> Regarding your question, I am a CD guy. I download if there's something I want that isn't on CD, but I usually lose track of it.

File management is all, Frank. You need a prominent folder somewhere on your device called Music. Mine is further subdivided by period, then by major composer, then A-Z. Can't go wrong.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

In article <c09b3623-6a45-41b9-8b30-fbadd9c73d15n@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com> wrote:
>I also like to think that the performers are making royalties from
>my download that is rather more than they get from a streaming
>service.

For some sources, I'm sure that's true. I'm unsure how true it is
across the board.... (Presto has put out some statements regarding
their streaming service too. But I haven't done a lot of research.)

On Fri, 04 Aug 2023 21:10:06 -0700, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:29:29???PM UTC+10, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > Regarding your question, I am a CD guy. I download if there's something I want that isn't on CD, but I usually lose track of it.
>
> File management is all, Frank. You need a prominent folder somewhere on your device called Music. Mine is further subdivided by period, then by major composer, then A-Z. Can't go wrong.

That's a tall order. Basically I have to edit the tags
for everything classical I rip, before I rip it, because
Gracenotes are usually false. There's plenty to go wrong.

And why should I be forced to rip a CD first before I
play it? CD players are great things to play CDs.
No ripping required!

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
>
> In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
>
> (2023 Y. upload):
>
> "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"

And even over $200?

(Y. upload):

"Is it worth it? $250 Unlimited Caviar Lobster Seafood Brunch in California, Bay Area - Ritz-Carlton"

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 11:49:34 AM UTC+10, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2023 21:10:06 -0700, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 12:29:29???PM UTC+10, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > > Regarding your question, I am a CD guy. I download if there's something I want that isn't on CD, but I usually lose track of it.
> >
> > File management is all, Frank. You need a prominent folder somewhere on your device called Music. Mine is further subdivided by period, then by major composer, then A-Z. Can't go wrong.
> That's a tall order. Basically I have to edit the tags
> for everything classical I rip, before I rip it, because
> Gracenotes are usually false. There's plenty to go wrong.
>
> And why should I be forced to rip a CD first before I
> play it? CD players are great things to play CDs.
> No ripping required!

Plute, we're not talking about ripped CDs here, we're talking about digital files downloaded from people like Presto Music. No physical media involved.. In my particular case, I do have a lot of rips from physical CDs as well, but Frank isn't into that. In fact I have ripped DVDs, too - the only physical discs I rely on are BluRays.

Personally, I'm not fussy about editing metadata either - for retrieval, I rely on browsing through my file structure, as previously described. But then I don't have an enormous collection, I don't buy boxed sets, and I don't have 53 different versions of Beethoven's Ninth.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:27:09 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> > In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
> >
> > In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
> >
> > (2023 Y. upload):
> >
> > "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"
> And even over $200?
> (Y. upload):
>
> "Is it worth it? $250 Unlimited Caviar Lobster Seafood Brunch in California, Bay Area - Ritz-Carlton"

Would you pay $400 for a meal?

(Y upload):

"My Best Vegas Meal! Bazaar Meat's $400 Experience"

On Mon, 07 Aug 2023 21:03:54 -0700, gggg gggg wrote:

> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:27:09???PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52???AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47???AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > > > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> > > In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
> > >
> > > In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
> > >
> > > (2023 Y. upload):
> > >
> > > "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"
> > And even over $200?
> > (Y. upload):
> >
> > "Is it worth it? $250 Unlimited Caviar Lobster Seafood Brunch in California, Bay Area - Ritz-Carlton"
>
> Would you pay $400 for a meal?

A better question: what is a better deal, a 400 dollar meal
or a 400 dollar CD box set?

Which one is ephemeral and which one is tangible?

Which is the waste of money?

On Wed, 02 Aug 2023 11:29:49 -0700, gggg gggg wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47???AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
>
> In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
>
> In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
>
> (2023 Y. upload):
>
> "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"

You didn't describe or even give the link so I assume
it's a comparison video about which is a better deal,
a 140 dollar buffet or a 140 dollar CD box set?

Which one is ephemeral and which one is tangible?

Which is the waste of money?

I get an inkling that "anti-consumerists" are not against
spending money, but they are just against the notion of
personal property.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 12:05:09 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:37:03 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:29:52 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 7:16:47 AM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:
> > > > https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
> > > In a consumer society, don't people want options/choices more than anything else? Even more than quality?
> > >
> > > In the world of restaurants, isn't that why buffets have become so popular to the point where they can now charge over $100?;
> > >
> > > (2023 Y. upload):
> > >
> > > "$140 Whole LOBSTER & KING CRAB Luxurious Buffet In LA"
> > It's very much quantity over quality.
> >
> > Modern people just want more of something, more of ANYTHING.
> >
> > Just so long as it's MORE.
> (from "Key Largo"):
>
> Johnny Rocco: There's only one Johnny Rocco.
> James Temple: How do you account for it?
> Frank McCloud: He knows what he wants. Don't you, Rocco?
> Johnny Rocco: Sure.
> James Temple: What's that?
> Frank McCloud: Tell him, Rocco.
> Johnny Rocco: Well, I want uh ...
> Frank McCloud: He wants more, don't you, Rocco?
> Johnny Rocco: Yeah. That's it. More. That's right! I want more!
> James Temple: Will you ever get enough?
> Frank McCloud: Will you, Rocco?
> Johnny Rocco: Well, I never have. No, I guess I won't....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITs-YX1yQ7o