Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
any comment?
Ciao
C

On Monday, 19 June 2023 at 14:42:38 UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> any comment?
> Ciao
> C

A bit wilful for me - I like more overall control of the architecture.

On Monday, 19 June 2023 at 14:42:38 UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelievable
> https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos

Not what I expect from a good Kreisleriana and Mephisto.

Henk

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 6:42:38 AM UTC-7, CSX wrote:
>
> Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> any comment?

Ugly percussive sound. Clownish interpretation.
Hiccups everywhere. Not the slightest trace of
expression. Suelement pour épater les bourgeois.

Take care -- and check Oticon.

dk

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 10:14:34 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 19 June 2023 at 14:42:38 UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> > Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> > https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> > any comment?
> > Ciao
> > C
> A bit wilful for me - I like more
> overall control of the architecture.

Are you talking about a
construction project?

dk

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 6:42:38 AM UTC-7, CSX wrote:
>
> Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> any comment?

https://youtu.be/HbpA6LzK-is

dk

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 10:48:15 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> On Monday, 19 June 2023 at 14:42:38 UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> > Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelievable
> > https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
>
> Not what I expect from a good Kreisleriana and Mephisto.

Not what I expect from a good pianist.

dk

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 6:42:38 AM UTC-7, CSX wrote:
> Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> any comment?

In what sense "unbelievable" ?!?

That no one could perform
them as grotesquely as
this this person ?!?

dk

Il giorno martedì 20 giugno 2023 alle 07:14:40 UTC+2 Dan Koren ha scritto:
> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 6:42:38 AM UTC-7, CSX wrote:
> > Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> > https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> > any comment?
> In what sense "unbelievable" ?!?
>
> That no one could perform
> them as grotesquely as
> this this person ?!?
>
> dk

How tranchant...
hard to reply.
C

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 12:49:02 AM UTC-7, CSX wrote:
> Il giorno martedì 20 giugno 2023 alle 07:14:40 UTC+2 Dan Koren ha scritto:
> > On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 6:42:38 AM UTC-7, CSX wrote:
> > > Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> > > https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> > > any comment?
> >
> > In what sense "unbelievable" ?!?
> >
> > That no one could perform
> > them as grotesquely as
> > this this person ?!?
>
> How tranchant...
> hard to reply.

Replies are optional, not required. You
say what you like (or not). Anyone else
can also say what he/she likes (or not).

Such is the nature of the internet. Open
and symmetrical. No special rights or
privileges for anyone.

dk

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 2:42:38 PM UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> any comment?
> Ciao
> C

Thanks for that. I'm listening to the Kreisleriana now, and it crossed my mind that you may enjoy Natan Brand's live performance too. I think both performances have free spirit vibes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50hLgtpbH_M&t=3s&ab_channel=ThePianoFiles

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 10:59:47 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> Replies are optional, not required. You
> say what you like (or not). Anyone else
> can also say what he/she likes (or not).
>
Clearly the RMCR owner instructing a newbie.

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 2:46:16 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 10:59:47 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > Replies are optional, not required. You
> > say what you like (or not). Anyone else
> > can also say what he/she likes (or not).
>
> Clearly the RMCR owner instructing a newbie.

ROTFL !!!

There is no "owner", this is an open internet
group.

There are no "newbies". The archives of this
newsgroup go back 30+ years. Anyone who
posts should know exactly what to expect.

Stop whining.

dk

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 11:57:14 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
>
> Stop whining.
>
Clearly the RMCR owner speaking.

Il giorno martedì 20 giugno 2023 alle 11:14:48 UTC+2 Mandryka ha scritto:
> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 2:42:38 PM UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> > Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> > https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> > any comment?
> > Ciao
> > C
> Thanks for that. I'm listening to the Kreisleriana now, and it crossed my mind that you may enjoy Natan Brand's live performance too. I think both performances have free spirit vibes.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50hLgtpbH_M&t=3s&ab_channel=ThePianoFiles

I know NB Kreisleriana and all his rare recordings. Deep admiration, but this Demaray is more refined subtle and clean, one of the best, if not the one, Kreisleriana I ever heard. If rankings have any sense, I put VMargulis, Pollini (yes), Cortot and Horowitz-CBS. But even with respect to them, Demaray sounds more intense to me.
C

Il giorno lunedì 19 giugno 2023 alle 19:14:34 UTC+2 Andy Evans ha scritto:
> On Monday, 19 June 2023 at 14:42:38 UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> > Kreisleriana and Mephisto are unbelivable
> > https://www.youtube.com/@michieldpiano/videos
> > any comment?
> > Ciao
> > C
> A bit wilful for me - I like more overall control of the architecture.

Not so easy define the architecture of those Schumann large scale works, but in Demaray's playing I find very coherent also his sense for a structure. If I listen to the way he builds the phrasing on the different parts in the first movement, I find it as a splendid narrative and expressive approach, and in the end "architectural".
C

On Tuesday, 20 June 2023 at 13:36:02 UTC+1, CSX wrote:

> Not so easy define the architecture of those Schumann large scale works....

That's very true. But there is still the architecture of the individual pieces in works like this and Carnaval etc.

And also how the individual pieces fit together - choice of tempo, style etc.

Basically I just don't relate to the way Demaray thinks or interprets. Just a personal thing.

But when I think of it, too much control in Schumann is equally not a good thing. Which is why I often enjoy female pianists in Schumann. They seem to have the right instinct for mixing sensitivity and charm within the architecture. A number of big name male pianists just don't get inside the many quirks in the music.

>Which is why I often enjoy female pianists in Schumann. They seem to have the right instinct for mixing sensitivity and charm within the architecture.. A number of big name male pianists just don't get inside the many quirks in the music.

Do you know Maria Tipo op.13? It is fantastic.
On the other hand, I tend to prefer, also in Schumann, clean lines and textures... if I think to something feminine in Schumann (apart from Reine Gianoli) it comes to my mind the Fantasie of Maria Yudina. Not so clean, not so luminous, almost disturbing, that is a proper achievement with Schumann, but Pletnev and Fiorentino they fly higher.
C

On Tuesday, 20 June 2023 at 14:02:36 UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> Do you know Maria Tipo op.13? It is fantastic.

I can believe that

> On the other hand, I tend to prefer, also in Schumann, clean lines and textures... if I think to something feminine in Schumann (apart from Reine Gianoli) it comes to my mind the Fantasie of Maria Yudina. Not so clean, not so luminous, almost disturbing, that is a proper achievement with Schumann, but Pletnev and Fiorentino they fly higher.
> C

Maria Yudina is pretty special. I wouldn't say 'feminine" is the first word that comes to mind. I think it's the Fantasie itself that is "disturbing". There's something spooky about it. Hard to explain. I find it quite uncomfortable to listen to. Yudina certainly meets it full in the face.

I compared several versions of Carnaval at one time - Rachmaninov and Cortot are pretty wonderful. Of the ladies I liked Myra Hess, De Larrocha, Bella Davidovich, Virsaladze, Novaes, Leonskaja. Not Annie Fischer, though.

> I compared several versions of Carnaval at one time - Rachmaninov and Cortot are pretty wonderful. Of the ladies I liked Myra Hess, De Larrocha, Bella Davidovich, Virsaladze, Novaes, Leonskaja. Not Annie Fischer, though.

Too bad we do not have Eileen Joyce... it would have been a fantastic rendering.
C

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 5:06:58 AM UTC-7, CSX wrote:
>
> I know NB Kreisleriana and all his rare recordings.
> Deep admiration, but this Demaray is more refined
> subtle and clean, one of the best, if not the one,
> Kreisleriana I ever heard. If rankings have any
> sense, I put VMargulis, Pollini (yes), Cortot and
> Horowitz-CBS. But even with respect to them,
> Demaray sounds more intense to me.

He also sounds cruder, louder, more vulgar. His
sound is harsh and ugly. This is definitely not a
top tier pianist. "Intensity" is not the only metric
that matters.

dk

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 9:16:41 AM UTC-7, CSX wrote:
>
> Too bad we do not have Eileen Joyce...

Too bad we do not have Schumann
himself. So what?

> it would have been a fantastic rendering.

You are fantasizing and speculating.
There is no shortage of superb more
recent Kreisleriana recordings. Get
oout of your cave.

dk

On Tuesday, 20 June 2023 at 17:16:41 UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> > I compared several versions of Carnaval at one time - Rachmaninov and Cortot are pretty wonderful. Of the ladies I liked Myra Hess, De Larrocha, Bella Davidovich, Virsaladze, Novaes, Leonskaja. Not Annie Fischer, though.
> Too bad we do not have Eileen Joyce... it would have been a fantastic rendering.
> C

Inspired by your interest I looked up Joyce in Schumann and found Papillons, which I liked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv6X-AgDfqQ

An interesting person, and very popular in her time. Wiki has this....

"Although small in stature, Joyce was strikingly beautiful, with chestnut hair and green eyes. She changed her evening gowns to suit the music she was playing: blue for Beethoven, red for Tchaikovsky, lilac for Liszt, black for Bach, green for Chopin, sequins for Debussy, and red and gold for Schumann. She also arranged her hair differently depending on the composer – up for Beethoven, falling free for Grieg and Debussy, and drawn back for Mozart."

How about that!

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 2:02:36 PM UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> >Which is why I often enjoy female pianists in Schumann. They seem to have the right instinct for mixing sensitivity and charm within the architecture. A number of big name male pianists just don't get inside the many quirks in the music.
> Do you know Maria Tipo op.13? It is fantastic.
> On the other hand, I tend to prefer, also in Schumann, clean lines and textures... if I think to something feminine in Schumann (apart from Reine Gianoli) it comes to my mind the Fantasie of Maria Yudina. Not so clean, not so luminous, almost disturbing, that is a proper achievement with Schumann, but Pletnev and Fiorentino they fly higher.
> C

Tipo’s Schumann etudes are completely lost on me I’m afraid! Must be some sort of marmite I guess, or I must be deaf to her qualities on that recording.

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 8:47:55 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2023 at 17:16:41 UTC+1, CSX wrote:
> > > I compared several versions of Carnaval at one time - Rachmaninov and Cortot are pretty wonderful. Of the ladies I liked Myra Hess, De Larrocha, Bella Davidovich, Virsaladze, Novaes, Leonskaja. Not Annie Fischer, though..
> > Too bad we do not have Eileen Joyce... it would have been a fantastic rendering.
> > C
> Inspired by your interest I looked up Joyce in Schumann and found Papillons, which I liked.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv6X-AgDfqQ
>
> An interesting person, and very popular in her time. Wiki has this....
>
> "Although small in stature, Joyce was strikingly beautiful, with chestnut hair and green eyes. She changed her evening gowns to suit the music she was playing: blue for Beethoven, red for Tchaikovsky, lilac for Liszt, black for Bach, green for Chopin, sequins for Debussy, and red and gold for Schumann. She also arranged her hair differently depending on the composer – up for Beethoven, falling free for Grieg and Debussy, and drawn back for Mozart."
>
> How about that!

There’s a transfer on APR or her Parlophone and Columbia recordings.. Very historic sound, but attractive playing in the Grieg Ballade - sweet and delicate, and yet forceful too - sorry for the near oxymoron. And I recall the Mozart sonatas for Columbia were worth a butchers.