I have just been reading the comments on Who Ate All The Pies Hurwitz's latest Red Scarf review of a recent HIP recording of Handel's Water and Firework's Musicks, which is chock full of people who applaud everything that Big Dave has to say, despite the fact that as the recording will not be available commercially until 14 July, none of them can have possibly heard it.

There seems to by a flourishing online market for abusive comments about classical music. Why?

One thing that WAATPH ridicules is the use of two harpsichords in the ensemble. I've seen quite a few performances of French baroque opera where there are two in the orchestra, one for the conductor and the other somewhere between the chitaronnes and the lirone.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 11:22:02 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> There seems to by a flourishing online market for
> abusive comments about classical music. Why?
>

I wish I knew. Maybe I could monetize some of
my r.m.c.r. posts for the benefit of my kittens'
trust fund ! ;-)

dk

Well, Hurwitz is just an old fuddy duddy who thinks it's still 1980 when HIP was relatively new, and it was considered connoisseurly to blast away at anything new.... esp in America, which is decades behind.

But in general there are people who want to pose as connoisseur by being negative, it's showing one has taste, even if it's founded on nothing. We've got two examples here on RMCR. Mr Music Is Like Chocolate, no use discussing music, unless it's him. And there is the kid from Germany who attacked Mandryka / Howie for never being negative.

Also the tone online has become more hateful and negative in general since Trump and Covid.
There are a lot of dead-enders out there holed up with their laptops / phones.
You can see it in the streets too. There are so many people who never unlock their gaze from their screens.

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 11:40:28 PM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
>
> Also the tone online has become more hateful
> and negative in general since Trump and Covid.

Stop gaslighting us. The "negative tone" first
appeared in r.m.c.r. when you started to post.

A thorough, detailed analysis of your posts
shows that you never provide any useful
information about the subject matter. All
you do is question other people's motives
and accuse everyone of ignorance, racism,
or just "negative" behavior.

Polish that mirror. If you need professional
help and cannot afford to pay for it, we can
raise a few dimes on your behalf by selling
Gouda futures.

> There are a lot of dead-enders out there
> holed up with their laptops / phones. You
> can see it in the streets too. There are so
> many people who never unlock their gaze
> from their screens.

Do you believe it is possible to write software
for a living without looking at screens? The
days of punched cards are long gone.

Regards,

dk

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 11:22:02 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> I have just been reading the comments on Who Ate
> All The Pies Hurwitz's latest Red Scarf review of a
> recent HIP recording of Handel's Water and Firework's
> Musicks, which is chock full of people who applaud
> everything that Big Dave has to say, despite the fact
> that as the recording will not be available commercially
> until 14 July, none of them can have possibly heard it.
>

Not so fast. There are often "pre-release" or "review"
copies available to friends and family.

You need to revisit your German. The correct form is
(or would be) Die Kunst der Kvetch -- not "von Kvetch".

dk

In article <1906200c-2382-48c4-9e11-4f581e4c89e0n@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com> wrote:
>There seems to by a flourishing online market for abusive comments
>about classical music. Why?

There even seems to be such a "market" here, among people who
actually choose to be in a classical music group....

Haters gotta hate, as the saying goes.

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 5:01:22 PM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 11:22:02 PM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> > I have just been reading the comments on Who Ate
> > All The Pies Hurwitz's latest Red Scarf review of a
> > recent HIP recording of Handel's Water and Firework's
> > Musicks, which is chock full of people who applaud
> > everything that Big Dave has to say, despite the fact
> > that as the recording will not be available commercially
> > until 14 July, none of them can have possibly heard it.
> >
> Not so fast. There are often "pre-release" or "review"
> copies available to friends and family.
>
> You need to revisit your German. The correct form is
> (or would be) Die Kunst der Kvetch -- not "von Kvetch".
>
> dk

My theory, given the state of Belgian politics, is that someone in Liege got hold of a review copy issued by Pentatone in Vlanderen and sent it off to Classics Today so that Big Dave would give it a Red Scarf and kill its sales.

May I suggest that your art history is defective? Otto von Kvetch was one of the original founders of the 'Blau Ritter' group: the Kaiser himself, visiting an exhibition in which a Kvetch was displayed, was heard to remark, 'What stupid Kunst painted this?"

Why is kvetch feminine?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:50:15 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> May I suggest that your art history is defective?
> Otto von Kvetch was one of the original founders
> of the 'Blau Ritter' group: the Kaiser himself, visiting
> an exhibition in which a Kvetch was displayed, was
> heard to remark, 'What stupid Kunst painted this?"

I had something different in mind.

In Yiddish, to "kvetch" means to
whine or to complain. I had no
idea you were referring to a
person.

dk

In article <4a364dee-692c-4b0d-bdf6-240f17ac99e5n@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Clarke <andrewclarke437@gmail.com> wrote:
>May I suggest that your art history is defective? Otto von Kvetch
>was one of the original founders of the 'Blau Ritter' group: the
>Kaiser himself, visiting an exhibition in which a Kvetch was
>displayed, was heard to remark, 'What stupid Kunst painted this?"

You outclowned the clown, and this did make me laugh.

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:55:31 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:50:15 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> > May I suggest that your art history is defective?
> > Otto von Kvetch was one of the original founders
> > of the 'Blau Ritter' group: the Kaiser himself, visiting
> > an exhibition in which a Kvetch was displayed, was
> > heard to remark, 'What stupid Kunst painted this?"
> I had something different in mind.
>
> In Yiddish, to "kvetch" means to
> whine or to complain. I had no
> idea you were referring to a
> person.

Per Bard:

The word "kvetch" is a Yiddish word that means "to
complain," especially in a habitual or nagging way. It
is often used to describe someone who is constantly
complaining about something, even if it is a minor
inconvenience.

The word "kvetch" can be traced back to the Middle
High German word "quetschen," which means "to
crush" or "to press." In Yiddish, the word "kvetshn"
means "to squeeze" or "to complain."

The word "kvetch" first entered English in the early
20th century, and it has become increasingly common
in recent years. It is often used in a humorous or ironic
way, but it can also be used to express genuine frustration
or annoyance.

Here are some examples of how the word "kvetch" can
be used in a sentence:

* "My boss is always kvetching about the workload."
* "I'm so tired of hearing her kvetch about her ex-boyfriend."
* "I'm going to go home and kvetch to my wife about my day."

dk

Dan Koren schrieb am Sonntag, 25. Juni 2023 um 10:03:13 UTC+2:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:55:31 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:50:15 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> > > May I suggest that your art history is defective?
> > > Otto von Kvetch was one of the original founders
> > > of the 'Blau Ritter' group: the Kaiser himself, visiting
> > > an exhibition in which a Kvetch was displayed, was
> > > heard to remark, 'What stupid Kunst painted this?"
> > I had something different in mind.
> >
> > In Yiddish, to "kvetch" means to
> > whine or to complain. I had no
> > idea you were referring to a
> > person.
> Per Bard:
>
> The word "kvetch" is a Yiddish word that means "to
> complain," especially in a habitual or nagging way. It
> is often used to describe someone who is constantly
> complaining about something, even if it is a minor
> inconvenience.
>
> The word "kvetch" can be traced back to the Middle
> High German word "quetschen," which means "to
> crush" or "to press." In Yiddish, the word "kvetshn"
> means "to squeeze" or "to complain."
>
> The word "kvetch" first entered English in the early
> 20th century, and it has become increasingly common
> in recent years. It is often used in a humorous or ironic
> way, but it can also be used to express genuine frustration
> or annoyance.
>
> Here are some examples of how the word "kvetch" can
> be used in a sentence:
>
> * "My boss is always kvetching about the workload."
> * "I'm so tired of hearing her kvetch about her ex-boyfriend."
> * "I'm going to go home and kvetch to my wife about my day."
>
>
> dk

Another example:

Herman is always kvetching about you or me or Trump or Hurwitz ;D All his life consists of is kvetching... like shit man... imagine you were his girlfriend... or his daughter ;D Seems he has an ex-wife... wonder why things didn't work out - haha.

Furthermore: In German it's neither "Die Kunst von Kvetch" nor "Die Kunst der Kvetch"... it's "Die Kunst des Kvetchens". While Herman may kvetch all the time, he has not mastered die Kunst des Kvetchens... unlike Moses who kvetched to God about not doing anything about the suffering the Jews endured at the hands of the Egyptians, or unlike the German kid on this board who always kvetches about the tits of girls being cut off in the name of transgender-ideology... for Herman it is not about doing good or just things when kvetching... no, for Herman it's all about elevating his ego: complain about others, so he can feel better about himself... quite pathetic. Must be quite embarrassing to be a child of his.

Herman schrieb am Sonntag, 25. Juni 2023 um 08:40:28 UTC+2:
> There are a lot of dead-enders out there holed up with their laptops / phones.
> You can see it in the streets too. There are so many people who never unlock their gaze from their screens.

Then there are also people who never unlock their gazes from DK, Hurwitz, Trump or myself ;D poor dudes...

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 8:57:17 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> Do you believe it is possible to write software
> for a living without looking at screens? The
> days of punched cards are long gone.
>
Some time ago you pompously announced you were retiring, as a sort of world event.
I guess that was a typo.
If you spend so much time on screen to make a living, some people would suggest getting offline outside work hours, and connect with people IRL.
Or just be quiet.
Many people are addicted. And have the concomitant anger and powerlessness issues.

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 2:50:21 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 8:57:17 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > Do you believe it is possible to write software
> > for a living without looking at screens? The
> > days of punched cards are long gone.
> >
> Some time ago you pompously announced
> you were retiring, as a sort of world event.

I announced I was going to retire from r.m.c.r.
Go read the archives.

> I guess that was a typo.

Nope. It was you misreading as usual what
people write, and taking everything out of
context.

> If you spend so much time on screen to
> make a living, some people would suggest
> getting offline outside work hours, and connect
> with people IRL.

I connect with over 70 people daily. Thanks for
the advice anyway.

dk

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:05:47 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> Nope. It was you misreading as usual what
> people write, and taking everything out of
> context.

Weird, how could I misread that 'retiring'?
You're by far the most prolific RMCR poster,
how could I know this is your definition of 'retiring'?

Does it ever strike people that the exact same dynamic existed here 1 year ago and 2 years ago and before that?
When negative atmosphere stagnates it’s time for some introspection..

Here’s one hard-to-swallow truth (IMO). When one constantly has issues with another, you will find, if you are clear, honest and sincere with yourself that the other person embodies qualities that you possess but don’t see it clearly. I know the first impulse is to reject this adamantly, but it’s true IMHO.

This need to continually confront that person demonstrates an addiction or attachment that can’t be thrown off easily. If you know deep down that these confrontations will not change the other person for the better, why not just stop the pattern by withdrawing, at least for a month, or a year, or for good. Losing your inner peace is too high a price to pay.

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 3:36:13 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
>
> Does it ever strike people that the exact same dynamic
> existed here 1 year ago and 2 years ago and before that?

Do we need to go all the way back to the Genesis ?!?

> When negative atmosphere stagnates it’s time for some
> introspection.

Matter of taste. I'd rather see some extrospection.

> Here’s one hard-to-swallow truth (IMO). When one constantly
> has issues with another, you will find, if you are clear, honest
> and sincere with yourself that the other person embodies
> qualities that you possess but don’t see it clearly.

You obesess too much about people. This ng is supposed to
be about recordings, not people.

> I know the first impulse is to reject this adamantly, but it’s
> true IMHO.
>
> This need to continually confront that person demonstrates
> an addiction or attachment that can’t be thrown off easily. If
> you know deep down that these confrontations will not change
> the other person for the better, why not just stop the pattern by
> withdrawing, at least for a month, or a year, or for good. Losing
> your inner peace is too high a price to pay.

You appear to be obsessed with other people and other "persons".
Let's stick to recordings (no firewood please!)

dk

Since DK's reverse retirement (i.e. his need to dominate the entire RMCR discourse) it has become completely unrewarding to post about music here.

I went to a beautiful piano recital Saturday and nothing could bring me to say a word about because this ghoulish psycho demolishes each and every musical topic with his hate and negativity.
It needs to be about him and nothing else.
And usually his Robin comes in tow to write about his Jewish obsessions and his 'cutting of tits' crap.

Posting about music is over here.

There was a brief attempt to create a DK/MS free zone by posting about post-1940 music, i.e. music that doesn't exist in the awareness of these idiots, however fat chance that was going to fly...

Again the morons took over.

JohnGavin schrieb am Sonntag, 25. Juni 2023 um 12:36:13 UTC+2:
> Does it ever strike people that the exact same dynamic existed here 1 year ago and 2 years ago and before that?
> When negative atmosphere stagnates it’s time for some introspection.
>
> Here’s one hard-to-swallow truth (IMO). When one constantly has issues with another, you will find, if you are clear, honest and sincere with yourself that the other person embodies qualities that you possess but don’t see it clearly. I know the first impulse is to reject this adamantly, but it’s true IMHO.

It is true about Herman, but it's not always true. Say my hatred for people who cut of the tits of teenagers in the name of transgender-ideology is rationally grounded; and my hatred for people who take no issues with such barbaric practices is rationally grounded as well. Herman's issues with Dan are irrational, furthermore - as mswd and others have already pointed out - he is acting the way he deems dan to be acting ;D and this donkey doesn't even realize it. It's kind of amusing - if you have an eye for it - to follow Herman on this board; he is always being a bitch.

>
> This need to continually confront that person demonstrates an addiction or attachment that can’t be thrown off easily. If you know deep down that these confrontations will not change the other person for the better, why not just stop the pattern by withdrawing, at least for a month, or a year, or for good. Losing your inner peace is too high a price to pay.

There is no inner peace within Herman... he's got nothing to lose, which is why he will carry on like this until his last breath.

To find inner peace Herman must first realize what a donkey he is haha.

Dan Koren schrieb am Sonntag, 25. Juni 2023 um 12:53:27 UTC+2:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 3:36:13 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> >
> > Does it ever strike people that the exact same dynamic
> > existed here 1 year ago and 2 years ago and before that?
> Do we need to go all the way back to the Genesis ?!?
> > When negative atmosphere stagnates it’s time for some
> > introspection.
> Matter of taste. I'd rather see some extrospection.
> > Here’s one hard-to-swallow truth (IMO). When one constantly
> > has issues with another, you will find, if you are clear, honest
> > and sincere with yourself that the other person embodies
> > qualities that you possess but don’t see it clearly.
> You obesess too much about people. This ng is supposed to
> be about recordings, not people.

The problem, Dan, is... there are not many good recordings worthy to be talked about ;)

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 6:03:13 PM UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:55:31 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:50:15 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > >
> > > May I suggest that your art history is defective?
> > > Otto von Kvetch was one of the original founders
> > > of the 'Blau Ritter' group: the Kaiser himself, visiting
> > > an exhibition in which a Kvetch was displayed, was
> > > heard to remark, 'What stupid Kunst painted this?"
> > I had something different in mind.
> >
> > In Yiddish, to "kvetch" means to
> > whine or to complain. I had no
> > idea you were referring to a
> > person.
> Per Bard:
>
> The word "kvetch" is a Yiddish word that means "to
> complain," especially in a habitual or nagging way. It
> is often used to describe someone who is constantly
> complaining about something, even if it is a minor
> inconvenience.
>
> The word "kvetch" can be traced back to the Middle
> High German word "quetschen," which means "to
> crush" or "to press." In Yiddish, the word "kvetshn"
> means "to squeeze" or "to complain."
>
> The word "kvetch" first entered English in the early
> 20th century, and it has become increasingly common
> in recent years. It is often used in a humorous or ironic
> way, but it can also be used to express genuine frustration
> or annoyance.
>
> Here are some examples of how the word "kvetch" can
> be used in a sentence:
>
> * "My boss is always kvetching about the workload."
> * "I'm so tired of hearing her kvetch about her ex-boyfriend."
> * "I'm going to go home and kvetch to my wife about my day."
>
>
> dk

Shake and shake
The kvetch-up bottle:
None'll come
And then a lottle ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
with apologies to Ogden Nash

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 4:38:09 PM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> Well, Hurwitz is just an old fuddy duddy who thinks it's still 1980 when HIP was relatively new, and it was considered connoisseurly to blast away at anything new.... esp in America, which is decades behind.
>
> But in general there are people who want to pose as connoisseur by being negative, it's showing one has taste, even if it's founded on nothing. We've got two examples here on RMCR. Mr Music Is Like Chocolate, no use discussing music, unless it's him. And there is the kid from Germany who attacked Mandryka / Howie for never being negative.

The interesting thing about Big Dave is that he isn't old: he's in his early sixties. I'm actually about fifteen years older than he is. At the time of Baroness Thatcher's government in the 1980s there were a lot of youngish men and women who were categorised as "Young Fogies" - tweed suits, cocker spaniels, read The Spectator, christened their sons Jaspar and their daughters Caroline, that sort of thing. Sadly, Dave is about twenty-five years too old to be a Young Fogie, and ten years too old to be an Old Fogie. And there's no such thing as a Mesofogie - yet.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 11:38:51 AM UTC-4, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 4:38:09 PM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > Well, Hurwitz is just an old fuddy duddy who thinks it's still 1980 when HIP was relatively new, and it was considered connoisseurly to blast away at anything new.... esp in America, which is decades behind.
> >
> > But in general there are people who want to pose as connoisseur by being negative, it's showing one has taste, even if it's founded on nothing. We've got two examples here on RMCR. Mr Music Is Like Chocolate, no use discussing music, unless it's him. And there is the kid from Germany who attacked Mandryka / Howie for never being negative.
> The interesting thing about Big Dave is that he isn't old: he's in his early sixties. I'm actually about fifteen years older than he is. At the time of Baroness Thatcher's government in the 1980s there were a lot of youngish men and women who were categorised as "Young Fogies" - tweed suits, cocker spaniels, read The Spectator, christened their sons Jaspar and their daughters Caroline, that sort of thing. Sadly, Dave is about twenty-five years too old to be a Young Fogie, and ten years too old to be an Old Fogie. And there's no such thing as a Mesofogie - yet.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

“I was a Teenage Fogie” sounds like an excellent movie project….I think I was a teenage Fogie, and have mostly been so for the next decades. As far as performance tastes, that is…..always wanted to go back in time a bit, but time marches on. I’m open to whatever style works, but probably am a bit harsher on contemporaries, at least the ones that seem to throw the baby out with the bath water. I’m definitely with Hurwitz on barfing at Xavier-Ruth’s ghastly Eroica, with those ridiculous arpeggiated opening string chords, but he’s done some good stuff too. It’s funny though, seeing that baroque HIP goes back to before some of us were born, you’d think it would be the current old fogies hankering for that too. As long as the HIPsters don’t deny the right to exist for the Karl Richters, Helmut Walchas, Edwin Fischers, Harold Samuels….even Wanda L, they’re free to go for it. They don’t have to like it or play like them, but live and let live. I like Mahan Esfahani because he’s got elements of both camps…..lots of notes inegales, ornamentation, but he’s still got that old timey slightly over the top grandeur/grandiosity, maybe even with a dollop of pomposity. Dave H gives it to you the way he sees it, and if he craps on stuff he doesn’t dig, he also lets you know what he thinks is the cat’s meow. Isn’t that what we all do??