Herman schrieb am Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 09:29:34 UTC+2:
> On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:22:02 AM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> >
> >
> > No, I am not a Neonazi
> you definitely are

It is your right to believe this, and I will defend your right to believe this :)

Marc S schrieb am Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 09:31:46 UTC+2:
> Herman schrieb am Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 09:29:34 UTC+2:
> > On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:22:02 AM UTC+2, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > No, I am not a Neonazi
> > you definitely are
> It is your right to believe this, and I will defend your right to believe this :)

But I will also defend the rights of people ridiculing you for your beliefs :) Which is what I am doing btw.

On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 01:37:56 UTC+1, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> Even more reason to highlight Israeli government atrocities, isn't it?
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

No thinking, caring person in 2023 is going to "hate all Jews" including women, children, and a huge number of very nice people in the diaspora with no particular links to the current Israeli state - the idea is absurd.

No thinking, caring person in 2023 is going to condone and whitewash the illegal invasion of the West Bank by Netanyahu's bunch of murdering carpetbaggers - the idea is equally absurd. But since international politics is a dirty game of power, Israel as a state which poses no threat to the West and additionally acts as a very useful buffer against even worse regimes like Iran, gets all its actions bankrolled by the USA, and the international community largely keeps its mouth shut. Nothing will change, and in the fullness of time the West Bank will be entirely taken over by new settlers. After that presumably comes the Gaza strip, and then the job will finally be done..

Andy Evans schrieb am Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 10:17:33 UTC+2:
> On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 01:37:56 UTC+1, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> > Even more reason to highlight Israeli government atrocities, isn't it?
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
>
> No thinking, caring person in 2023 is going to "hate all Jews" including women, children, and a huge number of very nice people in the diaspora with no particular links to the current Israeli state - the idea is absurd.
>
> No thinking, caring person in 2023 is going to condone and whitewash the illegal invasion of the West Bank by Netanyahu's bunch of murdering carpetbaggers - the idea is equally absurd. But since international politics is a dirty game of power, Israel as a state which poses no threat to the West and additionally acts as a very useful buffer against even worse regimes like Iran, gets all its actions bankrolled by the USA, and the international community largely keeps its mouth shut. Nothing will change, and in the fullness of time the West Bank will be entirely taken over by new settlers. After that presumably comes the Gaza strip, and then the job will finally be done.

What a load of antisemitic and antiamerican bullshit; you almost sound like Khamenei ;D

"West Bank"?! It's Judea and Samaria you fool.

"The international community keeps its mouth shut"?! Lol... The international community rages about Israel about whatever they do ;D being completely untruthul in their reports btw.

The international community which consists of ignorant idiots actually like you keep its mouth shut on the human rights violations by the Palestinians - say how they treat homosexuals, women and Jews etc.

Time to move from Londonistan to Iran Andy ;)

This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.

Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.

On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 10:08:02 UTC+1, JohnGavin wrote:
> This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.
>
> Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.

Hello John. I had no knowledge of her singing but I did check out some of her performances on YT to become acquainted with her work. I liked what I heard and said so, I think on the other thread about her. In my case her repertoire was mostly pre-modern and of no real interest to me so I didn't follow it up any further.

I'd love to discuss music of the 20th century and beyond here, but 90% of all the posts here are pre-modern. I don't listen to Mozart at all, so I just sit out most of the dances.

Op vrijdag 30 juni 2023 om 11:08:02 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:
> This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.
>
> Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.

Interesting observation. Where you come from is more important than who you are. It's a sign of the times. Identity versus individuality.

Henk

JohnGavin schrieb am Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 11:08:02 UTC+2:
> This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.
>
> Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.

You realize Andy was the reason it all went south? How about opening your eyes you stupid fuck ;D

HT schrieb am Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 11:44:00 UTC+2:
> Op vrijdag 30 juni 2023 om 11:08:02 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:
> > This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.
> >
> > Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.
> Interesting observation. Where you come from is more important than who you are. It's a sign of the times. Identity versus individuality.
>
> Henk

What a load of bullshit as usual... So if you come from the Taliban, that's more important than your individual human nature? You are completely deranged as you have often demonstrated - not able to form a signle coherent thought on anything.

Marc S schrieb am Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 11:48:56 UTC+2:
> HT schrieb am Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 11:44:00 UTC+2:
> > Op vrijdag 30 juni 2023 om 11:08:02 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:
> > > This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.
> > >
> > > Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.
> > Interesting observation. Where you come from is more important than who you are. It's a sign of the times. Identity versus individuality.
> >
> > Henk
> What a load of bullshit as usual... So if you come from the Taliban, that's more important than your individual human nature? You are completely deranged as you have often demonstrated - not able to form a signle coherent thought on anything.

If Henk had learned anything of what the Nazis did wrong, he would have noticed, that they hated individuality and were supportive of a collective identity; Henk does seem to be similar to Nazis in a way -- Identity over Individuality; just goes on to show what a sick person Henk is.

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 2:08:02 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.
>
> Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her
> life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate
> into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings
> later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.

Did anyone prevent you (or anyone else) from posting material
thet would have been more hermane to the original topic?

If so, please provide evidence. Otherwise STFU!

dk

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 6:33:12 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 2:08:02 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> > This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.
> >
> > Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her
> > life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate
> > into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings
> > later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.
> Did anyone prevent you (or anyone else) from posting material
> thet would have been more hermane to the original topic?
>
> If so, please provide evidence. Otherwise STFU!
>
> dk

I know nothing about Rachel Yakar. There is no implication that anyone is obliged to post on any subject here or elsewhere. It would have been a good opportunity to learn something from a knowledgeable poster, but everything seems to have been reduced to who is anti-Semitic and which musicians Dan Koren hates or likes.

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 12:43:17 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 6:33:12 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 2:08:02 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> > >
> > Did anyone prevent you (or anyone else) from posting material
> > thet would have been more hermane to the original topic?
> >
There is no implication that anyone is obliged to post on any subject here or elsewhere. It would have been a good opportunity to learn something from a knowledgeable poster, but everything seems to have been reduced to who is anti-Semitic and which musicians Dan Koren hates or likes.

Also IF you post on topic, you get immediately shot down by DK and his litte buttboy, because you're taking away space from them. Or 'you're dancing about architecture' another one of his tired bon mots. So the answer is yes, bad people prevent good people from doing good stuff. This is pretty obvious.

On 6/30/2023 4:17 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 01:37:56 UTC+1, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>> Even more reason to highlight Israeli government atrocities, isn't it?
>>
>> Ray Hall, Taree
>
> No thinking, caring person in 2023 is going to "hate all Jews" including women, children, and a huge number of very nice people in the diaspora with no particular links to the current Israeli state - the idea is absurd.
>
> No thinking, caring person in 2023 is going to condone and whitewash the illegal invasion of the West Bank by Netanyahu's bunch of murdering carpetbaggers - the idea is equally absurd. But >since international politics is a dirty game of power, Israel as a state which poses no threat to the West and additionally acts as a very useful buffer against even worse regimes like Iran, >gets all its actions bankrolled by the USA, and the international community largely keeps its mouth shut. Nothing will change, and in the fullness of time the West Bank will be entirely taken >over by new settlers. After that presumably comes the Gaza strip, and then the job will finally be done.

All based on the premise that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, which is bullshit. Any thinking, caring person who knows anything about history will recognize that this is disputed territory not an illegal occupation. I don't believe Israel as any interest in Gaza, by the way.

On 6/30/2023 5:07 AM, JohnGavin wrote:
> This thread was initially about the passing of a French vocalist.
>
> Without having said anything about her or paying homage to her life or career, and despite Andy’s pleading that it not degenerate into a tribal discussion, the bomb was dropped and 75 postings later, not a single word about Rachel Yakar the musician.
>
>
>

That is too bad, but Andy's post brought up antisemitism for no reason whatsoever. Had he not done so there is no reason to think the thread would have degenerated.

On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 14:48:08 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> I don't believe Israel as any interest in Gaza, by the way.

Not yet......

On 6/30/2023 10:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 14:48:08 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> I don't believe Israel as any interest in Gaza, by the way.
>
> Not yet......

Israel occupied Gaza during the 1967 war. When Israel and Egypt concluded a peace treaty, they evacuated Gaza. Gaza is not part of historical Israel. It seems you know very little about Israel. Why don't you learn something? You could visit, even. All sorts of people visit Israel, Jews, Gentiles, religious, not religious, doesn't matter. Spectacular beaches, restaurants, history. You could donate an equal sum to what you spend there to the Palestinian cause to make up for supporting Israelis with your money and the State with the taxes you would pay.

Op vrijdag 30 juni 2023 om 15:48:08 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:

> All based on the premise that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, which is bullshit. Any thinking, caring person who knows anything about history will recognize that this is disputed territory not an illegal occupation. I don't believe Israel as any interest in Gaza, by the way.

Frank, I cannot just let this go unnoticed. You cannot call the occupation of disputed territory legal or more precisely: not-illegal. Not that it will make a difference. The Palestinians will have to leave the West Bank and East Jerusalem, legally or illegally.

It doesn't make matters better by telling us that caring persons with a knowledge of history believe it to be alright. Politics goes its own way, right or wrong. You won't be able to stop it or speed it up. You and I won't live long enough to witness the consequences.

History will judge, as it judges colonialism these days. In my young days, we were proud descendants of the heroes of the United East-Indian Company. These days we remove their statues and street names.

Henk

On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 15:43:00 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 6/30/2023 10:08 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 14:48:08 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> I don't believe Israel as any interest in Gaza, by the way.
> >
> > Not yet......
> Israel occupied Gaza during the 1967 war. When Israel and Egypt concluded a peace treaty, they evacuated Gaza. Gaza is not part of historical Israel.. It seems you know very little about Israel. Why don't you learn something? You could visit, even. All sorts of people visit Israel, Jews, Gentiles, religious, not religious, doesn't matter. Spectacular beaches, restaurants, history. You could donate an equal sum to what you spend there to the Palestinian cause to make up for supporting Israelis with your money and the State with the taxes you would pay.

I'm sure I would learn a lot from visiting Israel, that's true. But these days I stay closer to home and avoid hot weather.

On 6/30/2023 10:43 AM, HT wrote:
> Op vrijdag 30 juni 2023 om 15:48:08 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
>
>> All based on the premise that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, which is bullshit. Any thinking, caring person who knows anything about history will recognize that this is disputed territory not an illegal occupation. I don't believe Israel as any interest in Gaza, by the way.
>
> Frank, I cannot just let this go unnoticed. You cannot call the occupation of disputed territory legal or more precisely: not-illegal. Not that it will make a difference.

Why can't I?

The Palestinians will have to leave the West Bank and East Jerusalem, legally or illegally.
>

I don't see that happening. Most likely they will just be citizens of Israel, as the Arabs of East Jerusalem already are.

> It doesn't make matters better by telling us that caring persons with a knowledge of history believe it to be alright. Politics goes its own way, right or wrong. You won't be able to stop it or speed it up. You and I won't live long enough to witness the consequences.
>

It is true that reasonable people can take one side or the other. It seems to me that the only Palestinian claim is that they are there now. There is no Palestinian nation in history. You know that until after WWII, "Palestinian" mean a Palestinian Jew, right. The concept of a Palestinian nation didn't exist until Arafat came along in the 1960s. Sympathy for "Palestinan" suffering does not translate simply into a Palestinian state. Other options exist, such as become citizens of a 'Greater Israel," or becoming citizens of a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation, which has been proposed by Saudi Arabia and totally ignored by the faithful adherents of the obsolete two-state solution.

> History will judge, as it judges colonialism these days. In my young days, we were proud descendants of the heroes of the United East-Indian Company. These days we remove their statues and street names.
>

As I implied, Israel's actions are not colonialism.

> Henk