I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.

As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
> broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
> interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
> by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
> nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>
> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> preconceived ideas?
>

Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

On Wed 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
> broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
> interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
> by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
> nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>
> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> preconceived ideas?
>
When I heard that I would have said 60/70/80, but in the light of the
other comment why not 55/65/75?

On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
> broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
> interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
> by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
> nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>
> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> preconceived ideas?
>
What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.

As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 19:21:41 +0000, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
>> broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
>> interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
>> by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
>> nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>>
>> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>> preconceived ideas?
>>
>What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
>same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
>sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
>
>As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
>money to run these extra stations coming from?

Depleting the local radio services in England?

In message <l2i3i5FcfolU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 7 Feb 2024
19:21:41, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
>> broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
>> interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
>> by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
>> nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>>
>> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>> preconceived ideas?

Was Rock and Roll (and similar) considered "American"? When did it
become popular here?

Though I fear you're right, and light orchestral will get very little
look in. (There's probably enough material - in the BBC's own vaults if
nowhere else - but it won't be considered "cool".*)
>>
>What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
>same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
>sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
>
>As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
>money to run these extra stations coming from?
>
And, will they be online only? The announcements I've heard so far have
- I'm sure deliberately - been quiet on that subject. I suspect they
will (or make other, existing, stations go there), as that's their
not-very-well-hidden aim for everything.

* I'm of the narrow generation that considers "cool" to be an
old-fashioned expression (thus not cool!) - popular with those half a
generation earlier, as epitomised by for example the Fonz; however, I'm
aware it came back (in about the late '80s or 90s?0 and stayed.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[What's your guilty pleasure?] Why should you feel guilty about pleasure? -
Michel Roux Jr in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 19:21:41 +0000, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
>> broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
>> interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
>> by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
>> nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>>
>> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>> preconceived ideas?
>>
>What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
>same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
>sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
>
>As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
>money to run these extra stations coming from?

The licence fee is obviously too high and since the BBC appears to be
cutting its public service output (local radio) to compete with the
commercial sector I suggest they may be in breach of their Charter.
Given the huge change in technology that has taken place, I think they
should bring back Royal Commissions and the next Government should
re-evaluate the role and funding of the BBC.

Could these extra channels not be made subscription services to boost
BBC finances with the licence fee going to core services only?

What about the old days when you paid extra for a colour TV licence?
Could they not apply this principle to digital only services? Then
people wanting the core services only could pay X and those wanting
the add-ons could pay Y. (I appreciate the 'TV licence' technically
does not cover radio but I am making the point in general principle.)

On 07/02/2024 20:26, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 19:21:41 +0000, John Williamson
> <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
>> money to run these extra stations coming from?
>
> Depleting the local radio services in England?
>
Given what I've heard on air lately, that would be difficult.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed 07/02/2024 20:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <l2i3i5FcfolU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 7 Feb 2024
> 19:21:41, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>> On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>> I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
>>> broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s.  From the
>>> interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
>>> by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
>>> nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>>>
>>> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>>> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>>> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>>> preconceived ideas?
>
> Was Rock and Roll (and similar) considered "American"? When did it
> become popular here?
>
> Though I fear you're right, and light orchestral will get very little
> look in. (There's probably enough material - in the BBC's own vaults if
> nowhere else - but it won't be considered "cool".*)
>>>
>> What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
>> same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
>> sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
>>
>> As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
>> money to run these extra stations coming from?
>>
> And, will they be online only? The announcements I've heard so far have
> - I'm sure deliberately - been quiet on that subject. I suspect they
> will (or make other, existing, stations go there), as that's their
> not-very-well-hidden aim for everything.
>
> * I'm of the narrow generation that considers "cool" to be an
> old-fashioned expression (thus not cool!) - popular with those half a
> generation earlier, as epitomised by for example the Fonz; however, I'm
> aware it came back (in about the late '80s or 90s?0 and stayed.

The will be DAB+ over air, but since much 'early' music was mono then
will the station(s) be mono?

Tim Jones <timjones@invalid.invlaid> wrote:

> On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
> > broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
> > interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
> > by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
> > nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
> >
> > As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> > orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> > revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> > preconceived ideas?
> >
>
> Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
'60s.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> preconceived ideas?

There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

> On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> > orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> > revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> > preconceived ideas?
>
>
> There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept. With orchestras on
hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
were 'deemed' not to exist).

There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
repertoire is fairly limited. It was much more common for a popular
tune to be played by many different orchestras, each with their own
distinctive style, so the BBC could broadcast considerable variety with
only a small repertoire of tunes. A commercial recording represented a
significant investment for a record company, so they would only record
one version of the tune (or at most two) by whichever orchestra they
already had under contract, that they thought was best suited to it.

A significant proportion of the early editions of the BBC training
handbook "The Technique of the Sound Studio" by Alec Nisbett and BBC
training notes for Studio Managers is given over to microphone placement
for recording solo instruments, small combinations of instruments and
light orchestras for popular music. It was a normal bread-and-butter
thing to book a studio, a small band or orchestra, a soloist and an
announcer* to produce a 'live' half-hour light music programme; very
rarely was there any need to record one.

The best source of recordings would be transcription discs for
distribution to overseas transmitting staions and military bases, but
there were often destroyed after they had served their purpose. A lot
of the surviving ones are in bad condition and the equipment to play
them properly is very specialised because they were not recorded to RIAA
standards. A lot of American material of this type has survived, but
relatively little British.

*...and of course, a Studio Engineer, but nobody was concerned about
them.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 22:31:19 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

>Tim Jones <timjones@invalid.invlaid> wrote:
>
>> On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> > I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
>> > broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
>> > interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
>> > by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
>> > nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>> >
>> > As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>> > orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>> > revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>> > preconceived ideas?
>> >
>>
>> Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc
>
>That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
>'60s.

And was then largely neglected by the BBC until nearly 1970. Their own
pop station, Radio 1, was only created because the popularity of the
so-called "pirate" stations could by then no longer be ignored.

These offshore radio stations were broadcasting a lot of pop records
that couldn't be heard at all on the BBC, the excuse being that the
BBC were restricted to a certain amount of "needle time" so had to use
live musicians rather than records. This was a restriction until
somehow it wasn't, with the start of Radio 1. Presumably they struck a
deal with the record companies or the Musicians' Union but it seems
unlikely they would have bothered to do this of their own accord if
the public had not been made aware, by the "pirates", of what they
were missing.

Rod.

In article <1qolqqr.10djtmoyxt6gwN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

> > On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > > As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> > > orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> > > revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> > > preconceived ideas?
> >
> >
> > There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

> Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept. With orchestras on
> hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
> destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
> were 'deemed' not to exist).

> There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
> repertoire is fairly limited. It was much more common for a popular
> tune to be played by many different orchestras, each with their own
> distinctive style, so the BBC could broadcast considerable variety with
> only a small repertoire of tunes. A commercial recording represented a
> significant investment for a record company, so they would only record
> one version of the tune (or at most two) by whichever orchestra they
> already had under contract, that they thought was best suited to it.

> A significant proportion of the early editions of the BBC training
> handbook "The Technique of the Sound Studio" by Alec Nisbett and BBC
> training notes for Studio Managers is given over to microphone placement
> for recording solo instruments, small combinations of instruments and
> light orchestras for popular music. It was a normal bread-and-butter
> thing to book a studio, a small band or orchestra, a soloist and an
> announcer* to produce a 'live' half-hour light music programme; very
> rarely was there any need to record one.

> The best source of recordings would be transcription discs for
> distribution to overseas transmitting staions and military bases, but
> there were often destroyed after they had served their purpose. A lot
> of the surviving ones are in bad condition and the equipment to play
> them properly is very specialised because they were not recorded to RIAA
> standards. A lot of American material of this type has survived, but
> relatively little British.

> *...and of course, a Studio Engineer, but nobody was concerned about
> them.

Last year, I managed to buy a couple of CDs which have been made of
recordings of the BBC Scottish Variety and Scottish Radio Orchestras.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 22:31:19 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
>
> >Tim Jones <timjones@invalid.invlaid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> >> > I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
> >> > broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
> >> > interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
> >> > by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
> >> > nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
> >> >
> >> > As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> >> > orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> >> > revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> >> > preconceived ideas?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc
> >
> >That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
> >'60s.
>
> And was then largely neglected by the BBC until nearly 1970.

It was more complicated than that. The BBC did a poll of whether
listeners preferred light (orchestral) music or 'pop' music (mainly
guitar groups). The actual results of that poll were not made available
until recently but it was announced that it heavily favoured pop music.
The BBC then used this as the reason to to increase their output from
commercial pop records and scrap its light orchestras.

Eventually they instructed presenters that they were not to play
anything more than a few years old, which effectively banned light music
from the playlists. Even the term "light music", as a genre of music,
was dropped and has hardly ever been mentioned since the 1960s. Several
generations have now grown up without being exposed to it, except as
film scores and programme signature tunes.

Recently the results of the poll were made public and it turns out that
it had been in favour of light music.

Orchestras cost money whereas pop groups on record are cheap by
comparison. Both the BBC and the record companies benefitted
financially from this.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On Thu 08/02/2024 11:15, charles wrote:
> In article <1qolqqr.10djtmoyxt6gwN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>> On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>>>> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>>>> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>>>> preconceived ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>> There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.
>
>> Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept. With orchestras on
>> hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
>> destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
>> were 'deemed' not to exist).
>
>> There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
>> repertoire is fairly limited. It was much more common for a popular
>> tune to be played by many different orchestras, each with their own
>> distinctive style, so the BBC could broadcast considerable variety with
>> only a small repertoire of tunes. A commercial recording represented a
>> significant investment for a record company, so they would only record
>> one version of the tune (or at most two) by whichever orchestra they
>> already had under contract, that they thought was best suited to it.
>
>> A significant proportion of the early editions of the BBC training
>> handbook "The Technique of the Sound Studio" by Alec Nisbett and BBC
>> training notes for Studio Managers is given over to microphone placement
>> for recording solo instruments, small combinations of instruments and
>> light orchestras for popular music. It was a normal bread-and-butter
>> thing to book a studio, a small band or orchestra, a soloist and an
>> announcer* to produce a 'live' half-hour light music programme; very
>> rarely was there any need to record one.
>
>> The best source of recordings would be transcription discs for
>> distribution to overseas transmitting staions and military bases, but
>> there were often destroyed after they had served their purpose. A lot
>> of the surviving ones are in bad condition and the equipment to play
>> them properly is very specialised because they were not recorded to RIAA
>> standards. A lot of American material of this type has survived, but
>> relatively little British.
>
>
>> *...and of course, a Studio Engineer, but nobody was concerned about
>> them.
>
> Last year, I managed to buy a couple of CDs which have been made of
> recordings of the BBC Scottish Variety and Scottish Radio Orchestras.
>

A few years (decades?) ago I got some CDs from the US of things like
Beyond Our Ken/Round The Horne and The Navy Lark. Some seem to be of
original quality but a couple had obviously been recorded off AM radio!
Still good listening nonetheless - they don't make clever and really
funny programs like that any more!

"Hello, I'm Julian and this is my friend Sandy - ooh, its Mr Horne isn't
it?"

"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit Chief"
"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit it is Sir."

In article <1qokkoi.1negrb8perhngN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:

>As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't see
why you think not playing it would be "to suit their preconceived
ideas".

-- Richard

Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> In article <1qokkoi.1negrb8perhngN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> >orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> >revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> >preconceived ideas?
>
> If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't see
> why you think not playing it would be "to suit their preconceived
> ideas".

Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned, they
have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what the BBC
tells people happened, not on what actually happened.

Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how much
of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to 'pop'.
That's what really happened.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On Thu 08/02/2024 13:33, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <1qokkoi.1negrb8perhngN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>>> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>>> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>>> preconceived ideas?
>>
>> If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't see
>> why you think not playing it would be "to suit their preconceived
>> ideas".
>
> Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
> survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
> ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
> term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned, they
> have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what the BBC
> tells people happened, not on what actually happened.
>
> Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how much
> of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to 'pop'.
> That's what really happened.
>
As in MWYW
Steve Race's afternoon music prog
etc
etc

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:

> In article <1qolqqr.10djtmoyxt6gwN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>
> > > On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > > > As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
> > > > orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
> > > > revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
> > > > preconceived ideas?
> > >
> > >
> > > There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.
>
> > Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept. With orchestras on
> > hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
> > destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
> > were 'deemed' not to exist).
>
> > There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
> > repertoire is fairly limited.

[...]
> Last year, I managed to buy a couple of CDs which have been made of
> recordings of the BBC Scottish Variety and Scottish Radio Orchestras.

There are some recordings, but not enough to keep a radio station
running for long. If you search YouTube for "Ladies Palm Court
Orchestra:" you will see their repertoire is well over 100 pieces of
light music, which was only a fraction of the total published. I have
been collecting records of these light music pieces since the 1960s and
I have never come across recordings of at least a third of these pieces,
they were only played 'live'.

This was just a 'scratch' orchestra put together for a few short novelty
seasons in the 1990s, but there were dozens of others in the 1950s who
played selections at hotels, seasides, parks and on the BBC for years on
end. The whole genre has been erased from popular history.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 22:31:19 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

>Tim Jones <timjones@invalid.invlaid> wrote:
>
>> On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> > I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
>> > broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
>> > interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
>> > by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
>> > nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>> >
>> > As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>> > orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>> > revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>> > preconceived ideas?
>> >
>> Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc
>
>That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
>'60s.

I lost money years ago in a bet with an American student. I said Elvis
had more hits in the 60s than the 50s and lost.

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 22:25:08 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>On Wed 07/02/2024 20:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <l2i3i5FcfolU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 7 Feb 2024
>> 19:21:41, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>>> On 07/02/2024 18:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
>>>> broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s.  From the
>>>> interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
>>>> by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
>>>> nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
>>>>
>>>> As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
>>>> orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
>>>> revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
>>>> preconceived ideas?
>>
>> Was Rock and Roll (and similar) considered "American"? When did it
>> become popular here?
>>
>> Though I fear you're right, and light orchestral will get very little
>> look in. (There's probably enough material - in the BBC's own vaults if
>> nowhere else - but it won't be considered "cool".*)
>>>>
>>> What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
>>> same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
>>> sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
>>>
>>> As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
>>> money to run these extra stations coming from?
>>>
>> And, will they be online only? The announcements I've heard so far have
>> - I'm sure deliberately - been quiet on that subject. I suspect they
>> will (or make other, existing, stations go there), as that's their
>> not-very-well-hidden aim for everything.
>>
>> * I'm of the narrow generation that considers "cool" to be an
>> old-fashioned expression (thus not cool!) - popular with those half a
>> generation earlier, as epitomised by for example the Fonz; however, I'm
>> aware it came back (in about the late '80s or 90s?0 and stayed.
>
>The will be DAB+ over air, but since much 'early' music was mono then
>will the station(s) be mono?

Where will the capacity come from? Will some existing stations move to
DAB+ or will DAB be further degraded?

On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 17:51:29 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
[snip]

My mum was an actress and I thought she got 50% as a repeat fee each
time the broadcast was repeated. Does this system exist? If not, are
there some 'grandfather' rights for older material?

On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 11:47:43 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>A few years (decades?) ago I got some CDs from the US of things like
>Beyond Our Ken/Round The Horne and The Navy Lark. Some seem to be of
>original quality but a couple had obviously been recorded off AM radio!
>Still good listening nonetheless - they don't make clever and really
>funny programs like that any more!
>
>"Hello, I'm Julian and this is my friend Sandy - ooh, its Mr Horne isn't
>it?"
>
>"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit Chief"
>"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit it is Sir."

Bona!

Rod.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 17:51:29 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
> [snip]
>
> My mum was an actress and I thought she got 50% as a repeat fee each
> time the broadcast was repeated. Does this system exist? If not, are
> there some 'grandfather' rights for older material?

Was this in the 1950s, when most of the recording was done on disk? In
those days only major productions would have been recorded for repeats;
it wasn't unusual to repeat small productions by having the artists come
back and do them again. I believe nowadays repeat fees are all agreed
by a standardised contract system worked out with the relevant unions.

I've only taken part in broacasts where there was no budget for
performer's fees. After one of them I unexpectedly.received a cheque
for 'catering fees' because I had supplied the producer and the
presenter with sandwiches, pork pies and cups of tea. I should have put
cucumber in the sandwiches, then I might have had a repeat fee.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk