On 26/01/2024 22:38, Chris Holmes wrote:
> <Snip>
>
> So. last weekend I swapped the batteries between the two cars…
>
> My car still has the issues, and the other is fine. Which is what I
> suspected would happen.
>
> One dark morning this week I stalled the car after about half an hour (with
> dipped headlights on)….
>
> Tried to restart without getting out to put the jump pack on…
>
> Not only did it not start due to turning over very slowly, but I couldn’t
> get it to stop trying to start (It has a start / stop button, which wasn’t
> responding).
>
> Fortunately, it started when I got the jump pack connected.
>
> I begin to wonder if It has 2 faults….
>
> One, the alternator isn’t putting out enough current to run “the car”
> (involuting headlights) while also putting a decent amount of charge back
> into the battery (but the voltmeter plugged into the cigar lighter shows
> 14ish V when running)
>
> Two, it takes more current than it should to crank the engine.

or you have a high resistance connection starter motor to +ve, starter
motor to engine fixing, -ve battery to engine or chassis. It only has to
be much less than 1 Ohm when a starter motor can take 150 Amps to cause
theses types of problem. Electrolytic corrosion between different
metals for starter motor and engine?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Saturday 27 January 2024 at 12:10:54 UTC, Chris Holmes wrote:
> Animal <tabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <Snip>
> >
> > What battery voltage do you get during cranking? 9-10v is ok. High means
> > a high resistance point in the start circuit, low means the battery isn't coping.
> > 14v is a little low in warm weather, I'd expect more midwinter. That
> > might be your primary problem.
> > Charge endpoint at 0degC: 15.3v. At 10degC: 15.06v
> > Sounds like either your meter or alternator isn't right.
> >
> >
> Thanks for that, I’ll check the voltage when cranking…..
>
> Hmm…. the cigar lighter gets turned off then I think, so I’ll have to find
> another way to monitor it.
>
> Are you saying that 5.3V would be normal / ok when a car is running /
> charging?
>
> When my last car was up around that voltage (with a “supercacacitor” in //
> with the battery), someone on another forum told me anything over 14.5
> could fry things.

cars routinely go above 14.5v. Lead acids need more volts to charge fully in winter.

> In other news, yesterday in a nice warm multi-storey car park, (with the
> jump pack) it span over really quick and started immediately.

On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:38:05 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>or you have a high resistance connection starter motor to +ve, starter
>motor to engine fixing, -ve battery to engine or chassis. It only has to
>be much less than 1 Ohm when a starter motor can take 150 Amps to cause
>theses types of problem. Electrolytic corrosion between different
>metals for starter motor and engine?

.... and one way to find that is to monitor the voltage and its drop along the
path from battery to starter...

Thomas Prufer

Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:38:05 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> or you have a high resistance connection starter motor to +ve, starter
>> motor to engine fixing, -ve battery to engine or chassis. It only has to
>> be much less than 1 Ohm when a starter motor can take 150 Amps to cause
>> theses types of problem. Electrolytic corrosion between different
>> metals for starter motor and engine?
>
> ... and one way to find that is to monitor the voltage and its drop along the
> path from battery to starter...
>
> Thomas Prufer
>

Thanks both.

One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
its very difficult to get to the starter.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Thanks both.
>
>One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>its very difficult to get to the starter.

Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under, using the
extra space for comfort.

BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.

Thomas Prufer

On Monday 29 January 2024 at 13:34:43 UTC, Chris Holmes wrote:
> Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
> > On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:38:05 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> or you have a high resistance connection starter motor to +ve, starter
> >> motor to engine fixing, -ve battery to engine or chassis. It only has to
> >> be much less than 1 Ohm when a starter motor can take 150 Amps to cause
> >> theses types of problem. Electrolytic corrosion between different
> >> metals for starter motor and engine?
> >
> > ... and one way to find that is to monitor the voltage and its drop along the
> > path from battery to starter...
> >
> > Thomas Prufer
> >
> Thanks both.
>
> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
> its very difficult to get to the starter.

you don't need to, as already explained

On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks both.
>>
>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>
> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under, using the
> extra space for comfort.
>
> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.

Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way to
a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I got
hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while I
changed it :(

On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
> On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
>> <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks both.
>>>
>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>>
>> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
>> using the
>> extra space for comfort.
>>
>> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
>
> Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way to
> a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I got
> hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while I
> changed it :(
>
I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my back
in 4" of SNOW.

--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

In article <upbcma$135h0$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
> > On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> >> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
> >> <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks both.
> >>>
> >>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
> >>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
> >>
> >> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
> >> using the
> >> extra space for comfort.
> >>
> >> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
> >
> > Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way to
> > a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I got
> > hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while I
> > changed it :(
> >
> I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my back
> in 4" of SNOW.

I had a colleague who dismanted his A35 gearbox in a similar situation. He
brought a shaft into work and rebuilt the cogs with araldite and then
re-assembled it

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In message <upbcma$135h0$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
>> On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
>>><chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks both.
>>>>
>>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>>>
>>> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
>>>using the
>>> extra space for comfort.
>>>
>>> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
>> Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way
>>to a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I
>>got hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while
>>I changed it :(
>>
>I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my
>back in 4" of SNOW.
I have a pair of ramps and plenty of concrete floored barns.
>

--
Tim Lamb

On Tuesday 30 January 2024 at 20:00:06 UTC, charles wrote:
> In article <upbcma$135h0$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
> > > On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
> > >> <chrisp...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Thanks both.
> > >>>
> > >>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
> > >>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
> > >>
> > >> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
> > >> using the
> > >> extra space for comfort.
> > >>
> > >> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
> > >
> > > Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way to
> > > a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I got
> > > hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while I
> > > changed it :(
> > >
> > I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my back
> > in 4" of SNOW.
> I had a colleague who dismanted his A35 gearbox in a similar situation. He
> brought a shaft into work and rebuilt the cogs with araldite and then
> re-assembled it

hard to believe that lasted 5 minutes. Araldite, if set cold, turns to gloop when it gets hottish

In article <cBi6bloXMVulFwMv@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>,
Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <upbcma$135h0$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
> >On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
> >> On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
> >>><chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks both.
> >>>>
> >>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
> >>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
> >>>
> >>> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
> >>>using the
> >>> extra space for comfort.
> >>>
> >>> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
> >> Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way
> >>to a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I
> >>got hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while
> >>I changed it :(
> >>
> >I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my
> >back in 4" of SNOW.
> I have a pair of ramps and plenty of concrete floored barns.
> >

At our last house, I built a garage - with an inspection pit.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Animal <tabbypurr@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday 29 January 2024 at 13:34:43 UTC, Chris Holmes wrote:
>> Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:38:05 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> or you have a high resistance connection starter motor to +ve, starter
>>>> motor to engine fixing, -ve battery to engine or chassis. It only has to
>>>> be much less than 1 Ohm when a starter motor can take 150 Amps to cause
>>>> theses types of problem. Electrolytic corrosion between different
>>>> metals for starter motor and engine?
>>>
>>> ... and one way to find that is to monitor the voltage and its drop along the
>>> path from battery to starter...
>>>
>>> Thomas Prufer
>>>
>> Thanks both.
>>
>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>
> you don't need to, as already explained
>

I was thinking of the taking the starter off to check / clean the
connections (though I suppose depending on what the meter tells me, there
may be no point).

Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <upbcma$135h0$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
>>> On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
>>>> <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks both.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>>>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>>>>
>>>> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
>>>> using the
>>>> extra space for comfort.
>>>>
>>>> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
>>> Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way
>>> to a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I
>>> got hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while
>>> I changed it :(
>>>
>> I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my
>> back in 4" of SNOW.
> I have a pair of ramps and plenty of concrete floored barns.
>>
>

Nobody likes a showoff! :)

Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <upbcma$135h0$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
>>> On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
>>>> <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks both.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>>>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>>>>
>>>> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
>>>> using the
>>>> extra space for comfort.
>>>>
>>>> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
>>> Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way
>>> to a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I
>>> got hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while
>>> I changed it :(
>>>
>> I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my
>> back in 4" of SNOW.
> I have a pair of ramps and plenty of concrete floored barns.
>>
>

Are you offering? :)

In message <upgru6$2702h$3@dont-email.me>, Chris Holmes
<chrispvholmes@gmail.com> writes
>Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <upbcma$135h0$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>> On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
>>>> On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
>>>>> <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>>>>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
>>>>> using the
>>>>> extra space for comfort.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
>>>> Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way
>>>> to a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I
>>>> got hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while
>>>> I changed it :(
>>>>
>>> I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my
>>> back in 4" of SNOW.
>> I have a pair of ramps and plenty of concrete floored barns.
>>>
>>
>
>Are you offering? :)

You would not be the first! Local lad rebuilt a camper van.

Care needed as town planners take a dim view of motor repairs using
agricultural premises.
>

--
Tim Lamb

In message <upgru5$2702h$2@dont-email.me>, Chris Holmes
<chrispvholmes@gmail.com> writes
>Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <upbcma$135h0$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>> On 30/01/2024 17:32, SteveW wrote:
>>>> On 29/01/2024 16:23, Thomas Prufer wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:34:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes
>>>>> <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>>>>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drive up on a kerb, on the side where the starter is. Crawl under,
>>>>> using the
>>>>> extra space for comfort.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTDTGTTS. It's about as great and exciting and *fun* as it sounds.
>>>> Yes. I changed my clutch cable that way, after it snapped on the way
>>>> to a friend's house. Unfortunately it was raining hard by the time I
>>>> got hold of one, so I was effectively lying in a shallow stream while
>>>> I changed it :(
>>>>
>>> I trump that with replacing a split lower radiator hose lying on my
>>> back in 4" of SNOW.
>> I have a pair of ramps and plenty of concrete floored barns.
>>>
>>
>
>Nobody likes a showoff! :)

:-) Removing the undertray will be tricky using the pavement method.
>

--
Tim Lamb

In message <upgru5$2702h$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Holmes
<chrispvholmes@gmail.com> writes
>Animal <tabbypurr@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday 29 January 2024 at 13:34:43 UTC, Chris Holmes wrote:
>>> Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:38:05 +0000, alan_m
>>>><ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> or you have a high resistance connection starter motor to +ve, starter
>>>>> motor to engine fixing, -ve battery to engine or chassis. It only has to
>>>>> be much less than 1 Ohm when a starter motor can take 150 Amps to cause
>>>>> theses types of problem. Electrolytic corrosion between different
>>>>> metals for starter motor and engine?
>>>>
>>>> ... and one way to find that is to monitor the voltage and its drop
>>>>along the
>>>> path from battery to starter...
>>>>
>>>> Thomas Prufer
>>>>
>>> Thanks both.
>>>
>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way lift,
>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>>
>> you don't need to, as already explained
>>
>
>I was thinking of the taking the starter off to check / clean the
>connections (though I suppose depending on what the meter tells me, there
>may be no point).

I have never had a winding failure on a starter motor. Worn/jammed
brushes yes. Tractors of my vintage have solenoids to engage the Bendix.
Modern cars are rather different.
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 01/02/2024 19:54, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <upgru5$2702h$1@dont-email.me>, Chris Holmes
> <chrispvholmes@gmail.com> writes
>> Animal <tabbypurr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday 29 January 2024 at 13:34:43 UTC, Chris Holmes wrote:
>>>> Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:38:05 +0000, alan_m
>>>>> <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> or you have a high resistance connection starter motor to +ve,
>>>>>> starter
>>>>>> motor to engine fixing, -ve battery to engine or chassis. It only
>>>>>> has to
>>>>>> be much less than 1 Ohm when a starter motor can take 150 Amps to
>>>>>> cause
>>>>>> theses types of problem. Electrolytic corrosion between different
>>>>>> metals for starter motor and engine?
>>>>>
>>>>> ... and one way to find that is to monitor the voltage and its drop
>>>>> along the
>>>>> path from battery to starter...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas Prufer
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks both.
>>>>
>>>> One of the problems is that without a nice warm garage and a 4 way
>>>> lift,
>>>> its very difficult to get to the starter.
>>>
>>> you don't need to, as already explained
>>>
>>
>> I was thinking of the taking the starter off to check / clean the
>> connections (though I suppose depending on what the meter tells me, there
>> may be no point).
>
> I have never had a winding failure on a starter motor.

I have. Using it to move a camper van into a parking spot with a motor
that wouldn't start... :-)

>Worn/jammed
> brushes yes. Tractors of my vintage have solenoids to engage the Bendix.
> Modern cars are rather different.
>>
>>
>

--
“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”

H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy

On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 19:37:41 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes <chrispvholmes@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I was thinking of the taking the starter off to check / clean the
>connections (though I suppose depending on what the meter tells me, there
>may be no point).

Come to think of it: try when it won't start, and after a bit of cranking, to
feel along the wiring path if there's a bit that's noticeably warm. That could
be a/the spot of higher resistance.

Bit of a hit&miss method, but hey, no tools, no helper required.

Another method for reluctant starting is to hit the starter and/or starter
solenoid...

Thomas Prufer

On Friday 2 February 2024 at 08:11:15 UTC, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 19:37:41 -0000 (UTC), Chris Holmes <chrisp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >I was thinking of the taking the starter off to check / clean the
> >connections (though I suppose depending on what the meter tells me, there
> >may be no point).
> Come to think of it: try when it won't start, and after a bit of cranking, to
> feel along the wiring path if there's a bit that's noticeably warm. That could
> be a/the spot of higher resistance.
>
> Bit of a hit&miss method, but hey, no tools, no helper required.
>
> Another method for reluctant starting is to hit the starter and/or starter
> solenoid...
>
>
> Thomas Prufer

Red hot connection plus molten pvc, what could possibly go wrong?
The op apparently done the obvious yet, so no point offering suggestions.