On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 00:49:15 +1100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:

> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which haven't
>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I gather
>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>
>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>
>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>
>>>> +, 1.
>>>>
>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>> available
>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red, blue,
>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not used
>>>> to
>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>
>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>> or morse code.
>>>
>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to be an
>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>> articles I come across.
>>>
>>> eg:
>>>
>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>> articles, I come across.
>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>> Surely you need a comma or even a full stop after the *Oxford comma*
>> bit

> I was taught by an English graduate that if you can remove the phrase
> between the comms and the sentence still makes sense, then that is
> acceptable.

That is a rather superficial claim. It also matters
if the commas make it more readable.

> For example:
> "increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts"
> and
> "increased use of unnecessary commas in many posts"

> are both acceptable.

But the first one isnt saying the same thing.

> The use of the comma in this case is for emphasis.

The word random is saying more. It isnt just for emphasis.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 00:57:16 +1100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk>
wrote:

> On 23/02/2024 13:49, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which
>>>>>>>> haven't yet
>>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I
>>>>>> gather
>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>
>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>>> available
>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red, blue,
>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not used
>>>>> to
>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>>> or morse code.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to be an
>>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>>> articles I come across.
>>>>
>>>> eg:
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>>> articles, I come across.
>>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>>>
>>> Surely you need a comma or even a full stop after the *Oxford comma*
>>> bit
>> I was taught by an English graduate that if you can remove the phrase
>> between the comms and the sentence still makes sense, then that is
>> acceptable. For example:
>> "increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts"
>> and
>> "increased use of unnecessary commas in many posts"
>> are both acceptable. The use of the comma in this case is for emphasis.
>
> Yes, I was taught the same. Also where someone would naturally pause for
> breath.

Not just pause for breath, pause to make the sentence more meaningful.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 06:36:06 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
dennis@home to retarded trolling senile Rodent:
"sod off rod you don't have a clue about anything."
Message-ID: <uV9lE.196195$cx5.41611@fx46.iad>

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 06:33:49 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Cursitor Doom about Rodent Speed:
"I'm not the least surprised. The man is a conspicuous and unashamed
ignoramus."
MID: <pgbeg9$bv4$8@dont-email.me>

On 23/02/2024 16:36, Spike wrote:
> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which haven't
>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I gather
>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>
>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is available
>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red, blue,
>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not used to
>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>>> or morse code.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to be an
>>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>>> articles I come across.
>>>>
>>>> eg:
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>>> articles, I come across.
>>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>>
>> I'd use "Red, Orange and Yellow", but I'd also use "Red, Orange, Yellow
>> and Green, and Blue"
>
> “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green, and yellow”
>
> vs
>
> “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green and yellow”.

Good example, although I suppose it could be written as “Wiring comes in
several colours: green and yellow, brown and blue”.

Quite often I have to list things in technical specs and sometimes use
"&" to group two items as one and "and" to separate the last item in the
list, to remove any ambiguity.

In message <uravp3$nsbr$1@dont-email.me>, SteveW
<steve@walker-family.me.uk> writes
>On 23/02/2024 16:36, Spike wrote:
>> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>>>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which haven't
>>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I gather
>>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is available
>>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red, blue,
>>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not used to
>>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>>>> or morse code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to be an
>>>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>>>> articles I come across.
>>>>>
>>>>> eg:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>>>> articles, I come across.
>>>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>>>
>>> I'd use "Red, Orange and Yellow", but I'd also use "Red, Orange, Yellow
>>> and Green, and Blue"
>> “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green, and yellow”
>> vs
>> “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green and yellow”.
>
>Good example, although I suppose it could be written as “Wiring comes
>in several colours: green and yellow, brown and blue”.
>
>Quite often I have to list things in technical specs and sometimes use
>"&" to group two items as one and "and" to separate the last item in
>the list, to remove any ambiguity.

Umm. Couldn't that be misread as a single green/yellow cable etc?
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 23/02/2024 20:56, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <uravp3$nsbr$1@dont-email.me>, SteveW
> <steve@walker-family.me.uk> writes
>> On 23/02/2024 16:36, Spike wrote:
>>> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>>>>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman
>>>>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which
>>>>>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I
>>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red,
>>>>>>> blue,
>>>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not
>>>>>>> used to
>>>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>>>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>>>>> or morse code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to
>>>>>> be an
>>>>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>>>>> articles I come across.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> eg:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>>>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>>>>> articles, I come across.
>>>>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>>>>
>>>> I'd use "Red, Orange and Yellow", but I'd also use "Red, Orange, Yellow
>>>> and Green, and Blue"
>>>  “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green, and yellow”
>>>  vs
>>>  “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green and yellow”.
>>
>> Good example, although I suppose it could be written as “Wiring comes
>> in several colours: green and yellow, brown and blue”.
>>
>> Quite often I have to list things in technical specs and sometimes use
>> "&" to group two items as one and "and" to separate the last item in
>> the list, to remove any ambiguity.
>
> Umm. Couldn't that be misread as a single green/yellow cable etc?

That's the point, the "green and yellow" not being at the end of the
list always refers to a single cable, while the brown and blue, being at
the end, means that the two should be considered separate - there'd have
to be a ", and" instead of a preceding comma otherwise). Exactly why I'd
prefer "brown, blue and green & yellow", removing any ambiguity.

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> On 23/02/2024 20:56, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <uravp3$nsbr$1@dont-email.me>, SteveW
>> <steve@walker-family.me.uk> writes
>>> On 23/02/2024 16:36, Spike wrote:
>>>> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>>>>>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman
>>>>>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which
>>>>>>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I
>>>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red,
>>>>>>>> blue,
>>>>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not
>>>>>>>> used to
>>>>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>>>>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>>>>>> or morse code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to
>>>>>>> be an
>>>>>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>>>>>> articles I come across.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> eg:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>>>>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>>>>>> articles, I come across.
>>>>>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd use "Red, Orange and Yellow", but I'd also use "Red, Orange, Yellow
>>>>> and Green, and Blue"
>>>>  “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green, and yellow”
>>>>  vs
>>>>  “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green and yellow”.
>>>
>>> Good example, although I suppose it could be written as “Wiring comes
>>> in several colours: green and yellow, brown and blue”.
>>>
>>> Quite often I have to list things in technical specs and sometimes use
>>> "&" to group two items as one and "and" to separate the last item in
>>> the list, to remove any ambiguity.
>>
>> Umm. Couldn't that be misread as a single green/yellow cable etc?
>
> That's the point, the "green and yellow" not being at the end of the
> list always refers to a single cable, while the brown and blue, being at
> the end, means that the two should be considered separate - there'd have
> to be a ", and" instead of a preceding comma otherwise). Exactly why I'd
> prefer "brown, blue and green & yellow", removing any ambiguity.
>
>

“Green/yellow” would be even less ambiguous is one is intending to indicate
a single cable.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 06:33:49 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 00:49:15 +1100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which haven't
>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I gather
>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>
>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>>> available
>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red, blue,
>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not used
>>>>> to
>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>>> or morse code.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to be an
>>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>>> articles I come across.
>>>>
>>>> eg:
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>>> articles, I come across.
>>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>>> Surely you need a comma or even a full stop after the *Oxford comma*
>>> bit
>
>> I was taught by an English graduate that if you can remove the phrase
>> between the comms and the sentence still makes sense, then that is
>> acceptable.
>
>That is a rather superficial claim. It also matters
>if the commas make it more readable.
>
>> For example:
>> "increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts"
>> and
>> "increased use of unnecessary commas in many posts"
>
>> are both acceptable.
>
>But the first one isnt saying the same thing.
>
>> The use of the comma in this case is for emphasis.
>
>The word random is saying more. It isnt just for emphasis.

Says the pillock who can't pluralise nouns ending in "y".

On 24/02/2024 07:27, Tim+ wrote:
> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 23/02/2024 20:56, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <uravp3$nsbr$1@dont-email.me>, SteveW
>>> <steve@walker-family.me.uk> writes
>>>> On 23/02/2024 16:36, Spike wrote:
>>>>> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>>>>>>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman
>>>>>>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which
>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I
>>>>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red,
>>>>>>>>> blue,
>>>>>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not
>>>>>>>>> used to
>>>>>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>>>>>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>>>>>>> or morse code.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to
>>>>>>>> be an
>>>>>>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>>>>>>> articles I come across.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> eg:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>>>>>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>>>>>>> articles, I come across.
>>>>>>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd use "Red, Orange and Yellow", but I'd also use "Red, Orange, Yellow
>>>>>> and Green, and Blue"
>>>>>  “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green, and yellow”
>>>>>  vs
>>>>>  “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green and yellow”.
>>>>
>>>> Good example, although I suppose it could be written as “Wiring comes
>>>> in several colours: green and yellow, brown and blue”.
>>>>
>>>> Quite often I have to list things in technical specs and sometimes use
>>>> "&" to group two items as one and "and" to separate the last item in
>>>> the list, to remove any ambiguity.
>>>
>>> Umm. Couldn't that be misread as a single green/yellow cable etc?
>>
>> That's the point, the "green and yellow" not being at the end of the
>> list always refers to a single cable, while the brown and blue, being at
>> the end, means that the two should be considered separate - there'd have
>> to be a ", and" instead of a preceding comma otherwise). Exactly why I'd
>> prefer "brown, blue and green & yellow", removing any ambiguity.
>>
>>
>
> “Green/yellow” would be even less ambiguous is one is intending to indicate
> a single cable.

Although "/" can mean "or".

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> On 24/02/2024 07:27, Tim+ wrote:
>> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 23/02/2024 20:56, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> In message <uravp3$nsbr$1@dont-email.me>, SteveW
>>>> <steve@walker-family.me.uk> writes
>>>>> On 23/02/2024 16:36, Spike wrote:
>>>>>> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/02/2024 20:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <65d73e94.391618828@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
>>>>>>>> <nospam@please.invalid> writes
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:58:51 +0000, Jeff Layman
>>>>>>>>> <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> D <J@M> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when downloading newsgroup headers from news servers which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> universally (*) purged retained articles containing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "googlegroups.com"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in their path/message-id headers, googlegroups.com articles may
>>>>>>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the downloaded header list unless your newsreader client is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> set to filter them out (reference headers may include
>>>>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so be sure to filter those as well); also, when responding to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in threads which may contain googlegroups.com in the reference
>>>>>>>>>>>>> headers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply delete the googlegroups.com article reference from such
>>>>>>>>>>>>> replies
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and snip all or most of the quoted text attributed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I
>>>>>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>>>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>>>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red,
>>>>>>>>>> blue,
>>>>>>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not
>>>>>>>>>> used to
>>>>>>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>>>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is my vague recollection; the comma becomes shorthand for "and"
>>>>>>>>> with the last "and" terminating the list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe it became more useful in the days of early radio communication
>>>>>>>>> or morse code.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma there seems to
>>>>>>>>> be an
>>>>>>>>> increased use of unnecessary and random commas in many posts and
>>>>>>>>> articles I come across.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eg:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apart from the decline of use in the Oxford Comma, there seems to be
>>>>>>>>> an increased use of unnecessary, and random, commas in many posts and
>>>>>>>>> articles, I come across.
>>>>>>>> Even I wouldn't put a comma before an and:-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd use "Red, Orange and Yellow", but I'd also use "Red, Orange, Yellow
>>>>>>> and Green, and Blue"
>>>>>>  “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green, and yellow”
>>>>>>  vs
>>>>>>  “Wiring comes in several colours: brown, blue, green and yellow”.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good example, although I suppose it could be written as “Wiring comes
>>>>> in several colours: green and yellow, brown and blue”.
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite often I have to list things in technical specs and sometimes use
>>>>> "&" to group two items as one and "and" to separate the last item in
>>>>> the list, to remove any ambiguity.
>>>>
>>>> Umm. Couldn't that be misread as a single green/yellow cable etc?
>>>
>>> That's the point, the "green and yellow" not being at the end of the
>>> list always refers to a single cable, while the brown and blue, being at
>>> the end, means that the two should be considered separate - there'd have
>>> to be a ", and" instead of a preceding comma otherwise). Exactly why I'd
>>> prefer "brown, blue and green & yellow", removing any ambiguity.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> “Green/yellow” would be even less ambiguous is one is intending to indicate
>> a single cable.
>
> Although "/" can mean "or".
>
>

True. How about green-yellow?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 25 Feb 2024 at 08:11:03 GMT, "Tim+" <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

>> Although "/" can mean "or".
>
> True. How about green-yellow?

Sort of light yellowy green, you mean?

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.

On 23/02/2024 15:13, Andrew wrote:
> On 22/02/2024 12:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 22/02/2024 11:13, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I gather
>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>
>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>
>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>
>>>> +, 1.
>>>>
>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is available
>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red, blue,
>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not used to
>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>
>>> Without an “and” to indicate the end of a list it leaves you hanging
>>> waiting for the end.  Using an “and” makes it clear.  Even if this is
>>> just
>>> because that’s what we’re accustomed to doing away with it would
>>> remove a
>>> useful bit of information.
>>
>> I'll buy that. I guess that, just for confirmation, we would use "red,
>> blue, green, yellow, etc",
>
> Tsk, Tsk. What about EU harmonised colours ?.
>
> That would be Brown, Grey, green, black surely ?

Brown, grey, black, blue. green/yellow stripe if you please!

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Am 26/02/2024 um 18:33 schrieb John Rumm:
> On 23/02/2024 15:13, Andrew wrote:
>> On 22/02/2024 12:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 22/02/2024 11:13, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I gather
>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>
>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>>> available
>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red, blue,
>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not
>>>>> used to
>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>
>>>> Without an “and” to indicate the end of a list it leaves you hanging
>>>> waiting for the end.  Using an “and” makes it clear.  Even if this
>>>> is just
>>>> because that’s what we’re accustomed to doing away with it would
>>>> remove a
>>>> useful bit of information.
>>>
>>> I'll buy that. I guess that, just for confirmation, we would use
>>> "red, blue, green, yellow, etc",
>>
>> Tsk, Tsk. What about EU harmonised colours ?.
>>
>> That would be Brown, Grey, green, black surely ?
>
> Brown, grey, black, blue. green/yellow stripe if you please!
>

Gammon, gammon, gammon and more gammon please!

--
Ottavio Caruso

On 27 Feb 2024 at 09:22:35 GMT, "Ottavio Caruso"
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Am 26/02/2024 um 18:33 schrieb John Rumm:
>> On 23/02/2024 15:13, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 22/02/2024 12:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>> On 22/02/2024 11:13, Tim+ wrote:

[snip]

>>>>> Without an “and” to indicate the end of a list it leaves you hanging
>>>>> waiting for the end. Using an “and” makes it clear. Even if this
>>>>> is just because that’s what we’re accustomed to doing away with it
>>>>> would remove a useful bit of information.
>>>>
>>>> I'll buy that. I guess that, just for confirmation, we would use
>>>> "red, blue, green, yellow, etc",
>>>
>>> Tsk, Tsk. What about EU harmonised colours ?.
>>>
>>> That would be Brown, Grey, green, black surely ?
>>
>> Brown, grey, black, blue. green/yellow stripe if you please!
>
> Gammon, gammon, gammon and more gammon please!

You piggy!

--
“It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since ... it is futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into, we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a power-directed system of thought.”

Sir Roger Scruton

On 27/02/2024 09:22, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Am 26/02/2024 um 18:33 schrieb John Rumm:
>> On 23/02/2024 15:13, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 22/02/2024 12:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>> On 22/02/2024 11:13, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 20:59, GB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/02/2024 17:14, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone remember the days when people knew how to capitalise words,
>>>>>>>> punctuate and make sentences?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd have put an Oxford Comma in there, before the 'and', but I
>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>> that they are going out of fashion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rather a lot of discussion here:
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yippee, as, that, leaves, more, for, me!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +, 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've always used it. Why do we use the "and" instead of (or with!) a
>>>>>> final comma? We could just use a list without the and: "Paint is
>>>>>> available in red, blue, green, yellow", rather than "Paint is
>>>>>> available
>>>>>> in red, blue, green and yellow" (or "Paint is available in red, blue,
>>>>>> green, and yellow"). It looks and sounds odd because we are not
>>>>>> used to
>>>>>> it. Did commas start being used to avoid multiple "ands" - "Paint is
>>>>>> available in red and blue and green and yellow"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Without an “and” to indicate the end of a list it leaves you hanging
>>>>> waiting for the end.  Using an “and” makes it clear.  Even if this
>>>>> is just
>>>>> because that’s what we’re accustomed to doing away with it would
>>>>> remove a
>>>>> useful bit of information.
>>>>
>>>> I'll buy that. I guess that, just for confirmation, we would use
>>>> "red, blue, green, yellow, etc",
>>>
>>> Tsk, Tsk. What about EU harmonised colours ?.
>>>
>>> That would be Brown, Grey, green, black surely ?
>>
>> Brown, grey, black, blue. green/yellow stripe if you please!
>>
>
> Gammon, gammon, gammon and more gammon please!

You can have some spam, and be done with it!

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 01:12:57 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:

>>>
>>
>> Gammon, gammon, gammon and more gammon please!
>
>You can have some spam, and be done with it!

I don't like spam!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g00NplDnLLQ