Andy Burns wrote:

> Theo wrote:
>
>> I'd use <https://www.ubakus.de> in demo mode for a stackup calculator.
>
> Maybe worth paying for a couple of months ...

If you sign-up for a demo account, you get a month free, and after that
you can continue to use it evenings/weekends, so he's quite DIYer friendly.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>
> > Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> >> Anyone know if Knauf has split into two companies/divisions, e.g. one
> >> doing PIR the other doing rockwool?
> >
> > No idea, but often those kind of websites aren't very good at telling you
> > the full range.
>
> Not just the U calculator, the whole Knauf website has no PIR listed
> under products (except for plasterboard/PIR sandwich)

Hmm, did Knauf sell straight PIR? Rockwool and plasterboard, but I don't
remember Knauf branded PIR unless it was one of the minor brands like
EcoTherm/Isotherm.

> >> I thought I'd previously used their U-value calculator for a new flat
> >> roof, but now it only seems to offer rockwool, rather than PIR, which
> >> results in an insulation depth of 220mm vs 140mm for PIR to achieve 0.16U
> >
> > I'd use https://www.ubakus.de/ in demo mode for a stackup calculator. PIR is
> > in as there as 'PUR' which I think is the same, and they have rockwool.
>
> That's pretty good, shame my German isn't (yes firefox tranlate helps)

You can set the UI to English, it's just a few of the materials that aren't
translated.

> I'm surprised the various single-ply membranes are there, but disabled,
> you'd think he could persuade (at least some of) the manufacturers to
> pay in order to have their products promoted?

I think all the generic materials are available on the demo version, it's
only the proprietary ones that are on the subscription version. eg 'PUR,
foil faced' is free but 'Kingspan' is subscription.

If you want to produce drawings for building regs/etc approval you probably
want the right material on them. If you're a DIYer who is just sticking a
finger in the air then you don't care about that, you just want to know the
difference between PIR and mineral wool.

If it really annoys you you can make a custom material from the numbers on
the Kingspan datasheet.

> Maybe worth paying for a couple of months ...

Probably worth doing if you have a project on the go, rather than just
kicking tyres on newsgroups.

Theo

On 11/03/2024 09:07, Theo wrote:

> Probably worth doing if you have a project on the go, rather than just
> kicking tyres on newsgroups.

I would have though that a spreadsheet and a bit of DIY would be
adequate in most cases:

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Heat_loss

Most PIR board are very similar to the "standard" numbers IME, and you
can usually get specific ones from the manufacturers site if needs be.

(and installation details will matter far more than a 0.02 u value
difference)

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 11/03/2024 09:07, Theo wrote:
>
> > Probably worth doing if you have a project on the go, rather than just
> > kicking tyres on newsgroups.
>
> I would have though that a spreadsheet and a bit of DIY would be
> adequate in most cases:
>
> https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Heat_loss
>
> Most PIR board are very similar to the "standard" numbers IME, and you
> can usually get specific ones from the manufacturers site if needs be.
>
> (and installation details will matter far more than a 0.02 u value
> difference)

U-value calcs are easy, but moisture calcs less so. ubakus will tell you if
you're going to have condensation buildup in the middle of your stackup,
which is something good to know when selecting materials. It's not just the
permeability of the materials but the temperature at that point in the
stack, which is a function of the outside temps, airflow and the U value -
ie which of condensation and drying processes will win.

Theo

On 10 Mar 2024 at 23:07:22 GMT, Theo wrote:

> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> John Rumm wrote:
>>
>>> I was expecting the insulation to be the expensive bit - but in reality
>>> that is not too bad bought in bulk.
>>
>> Anyone know if Knauf has split into two companies/divisions, e.g. one
>> doing PIR the other doing rockwool?
>
> No idea, but often those kind of websites aren't very good at telling you
> the full range.
>
>> I thought I'd previously used their U-value calculator for a new flat
>> roof, but now it only seems to offer rockwool, rather than PIR, which
>> results in an insulation depth of 220mm vs 140mm for PIR to achieve 0.16U
>
> I'd use https://www.ubakus.de/ in demo mode for a stackup calculator. PIR is
> in as there as 'PUR' which I think is the same, and they have rockwool.
>

OOI, do you know how to input an air cavity?

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

RJH wrote:

> OOI, do you know how to input an air cavity?

various, stationary air (unventilated)
or other materials with the same "wind" icon.

On 12/03/2024 12:07, Theo wrote:
> John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> On 11/03/2024 09:07, Theo wrote:
>>
>>> Probably worth doing if you have a project on the go, rather than just
>>> kicking tyres on newsgroups.
>>
>> I would have though that a spreadsheet and a bit of DIY would be
>> adequate in most cases:
>>
>> https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Heat_loss
>>
>> Most PIR board are very similar to the "standard" numbers IME, and you
>> can usually get specific ones from the manufacturers site if needs be.
>>
>> (and installation details will matter far more than a 0.02 u value
>> difference)
>
> U-value calcs are easy, but moisture calcs less so. ubakus will tell you if
> you're going to have condensation buildup in the middle of your stackup,
> which is something good to know when selecting materials. It's not just the
> permeability of the materials but the temperature at that point in the
> stack, which is a function of the outside temps, airflow and the U value -
> ie which of condensation and drying processes will win.

Yup fair points...

Although if you stick to the principle of making sure you have a vapour
barrier on the warm wet side, that will help greatly in most cases.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 12 Mar 2024 at 21:27:28 GMT, Andy Burns wrote:

> RJH wrote:
>
>> OOI, do you know how to input an air cavity?
>
> various, stationary air (unventilated)
> or other materials with the same "wind" icon.

Thanks!
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 06/03/2024 16:08, N_Cook wrote:
> On 06/03/2024 13:16, N_Cook wrote:
>> On 06/03/2024 09:16, N_Cook wrote:
>>> On 06/03/2024 00:33, John Rumm wrote:
>>>> Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
>>>>
>>>> In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
>>>> with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
>>>> wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
>>>> on that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Someone just down the road has had some put in.
>>> The builders are never there when I walk past and I want to ask what the
>>> fire suppression character of the large foam blocks are, under that
>>> light skim of render. Wellat a distance it looked like foam rather than
>>> rockwool. Perhaps someone in this thread will know.
>>> I imagine birds, mice,rats etc will chew out nice homes for themselves
>>> in the foam.
>>>
>>
>> Another observation of this local clad.
>> No obvious keying, like expanded metal, to the surface of the foam
>> panels prior to the thin skim render so presumably liable to spalling
>> from thermal movements or wind cavitation at edges
>>
>
> The window reveals here have just been thin skim rendered over.
> No eavesdrop created prior to the cladding so the months worth of rain
> in the last week must have gone down between the cladding and the
> original brickwork, clever eh.
>

The scaffolding is still up, so blocking the view.
Front elevation looks like awkward sloping facia fixed over the
protruding edge of the panels, then guttering fixed to that at an angle
so much less than half round if full of rain water and excess will tip
over the inside edge. I'd have fitted plastic wedges under the brackets
so canted to the outside edge .
The end elevation gabling, looks like an extra run of cement tiles with
currently an awkward 1 to 2 inch wind-catcher overhang. Presumably a
barge board going there later. The new tiling run is a perfect colour
match but some upsetting in the layup, presumably slightly different
profile/dimensions of tile. Without binocular viewing, not too obvious
what has gone on there,
I assume Clipper sawn at ground level rather than disc cutter at roof level.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>