As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
lose interest.

There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.

https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps

Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an unvented
heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.

Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 17/04/2024 in message
<1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:

>
>As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>lose interest.
>
>There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>
>https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>
>Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an
>unvented
>heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>
>Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>
>Tim

Isn't the purpose of a boiling water tap to make drinks like tea whereas a
hot water tap provides hot water for washing things?

Don't know if anybody else here worked in Lyons in the school holidays but
it seems to me the hot water tap is what we used to call "the steam" in
Lyons.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists
or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 17/04/2024 in message
> <1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
> Tim+ wrote:
>
>>
>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>> lose interest.
>>
>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>
>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>
>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an
>> unvented
>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>>
>> Tim
>
> Isn't the purpose of a boiling water tap to make drinks like tea whereas a
> hot water tap provides hot water for washing things?
>

Well yes but I’m pretty sure that one can mix boiling water and cold water
in a sink. It may be possible to run cold and boiling simultaneously
(although I doubt there will be any mixing going on).

It’s certainly not ideal for washing up but when you’ve looked at the price
of a Quooker with their “Combi” tank, you’re looking at over £1,500.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

In message
<1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.
net>, Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> writes
>
>As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>lose interest.
>
>There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>
>https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>
>Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an unvented
>heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>
>Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?

No:-)

I do have 4 years of Quooker experience which may be of interest.

Lesson 1. You can't have a plastic sink (Corrion) fed from a boiling
water outlet.

Lesson 2. Quooker have a habit of upgrading/changing the versions of
their hot supply making d-i-y maintenance tortuous.

Lesson 3. Stuff wears, even with only 2 elderly users. (tap body)

Lesson 4. A simple de-scale is expensified as the sealant washer kit is
supplied with the Allen key and spanner already found in most handy man
tool kits.

Otherwise it is a valuable time saver and helps de-clutter the sink
area.

--
Tim Lamb

On 17/04/2024 11:39, Tim+ wrote:
>
> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
> lose interest.
>
> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>
> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>
> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an unvented
> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.

The temperature they quote is ideal for coffee, which, unlike tea,
should not be made with boiling water. However, even at that price, I
will stick with using a kettle.

>
> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>
> Tim
>

--
Colin Bignell

Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.
>> , Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> writes
>>
>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>> lose interest.
>>
>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>
>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>
>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an unvented
>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>
> No:-)
>
> I do have 4 years of Quooker experience which may be of interest.
>
> Lesson 1. You can't have a plastic sink (Corrion) fed from a boiling
> water outlet.
>
> Lesson 2. Quooker have a habit of upgrading/changing the versions of
> their hot supply making d-i-y maintenance tortuous.
>
> Lesson 3. Stuff wears, even with only 2 elderly users. (tap body)
>
> Lesson 4. A simple de-scale is expensified as the sealant washer kit is
> supplied with the Allen key and spanner already found in most handy man
> tool kits.
>
> Otherwise it is a valuable time saver and helps de-clutter the sink
> area.
>

A friend of mine has a Quooker but it suffered a solenoid failure out of
warranty. It was down to poor installation causing water to leak onto the
solenoid.

Solenoids on their own turned out to be unobtainium which meant an
expensive complete swap out of the element etc.

Other than that, she loves it. ;-)

I do wonder about availability of tap spares for the fohen tap.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 17 Apr 2024 at 12:49:51 BST, Tim Lamb wrote:

> In message
> <1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net
> , Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> writes
>>
>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>> lose interest.
>>
>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>
>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>
>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an unvented
>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>
> No:-)
>
> I do have 4 years of Quooker experience which may be of interest.
>
> Lesson 1. You can't have a plastic sink (Corrion) fed from a boiling
> water outlet.
>
> Lesson 2. Quooker have a habit of upgrading/changing the versions of
> their hot supply making d-i-y maintenance tortuous.
>
> Lesson 3. Stuff wears, even with only 2 elderly users. (tap body)
>
> Lesson 4. A simple de-scale is expensified as the sealant washer kit is
> supplied with the Allen key and spanner already found in most handy man
> tool kits.
>
> Otherwise it is a valuable time saver and helps de-clutter the sink
> area.

I'd be interested in a lesson 5: saving electricity.

Their own FAQs suggest within 3p and 9p a day, to produce 3 litres of water.
They don't say why it should vary. A kettle would boil that same water for 7p.
Quite how a water store is potentially better than 100% efficient I don't
know.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 17/04/2024 13:00, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 17/04/2024 11:39, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>> lose interest.
>>
>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>
>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>
>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an
>> unvented
>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>
> The temperature they quote is ideal for coffee, which, unlike tea,
> should not be made with boiling water. However, even at that price, I
> will stick with using a kettle.

I have come across stay warm/hot kettles like this before:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smart-Kettle-WEEKETT-Compatible-Temperature/dp/B09N9VSTGH?th=1

A much more affordable experience.

>> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>

On 17/04/2024 12:48, Tim+ wrote:
> Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>> On 17/04/2024 in message
>> <1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
>> Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>>> lose interest.
>>>
>>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>>
>>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>>
>>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an
>>> unvented
>>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>>>
>>> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>
>> Isn't the purpose of a boiling water tap to make drinks like tea whereas a
>> hot water tap provides hot water for washing things?
>>
>
> Well yes but I’m pretty sure that one can mix boiling water and cold water
> in a sink. It may be possible to run cold and boiling simultaneously
> (although I doubt there will be any mixing going on).
>
> It’s certainly not ideal for washing up but when you’ve looked at the price
> of a Quooker with their “Combi” tank, you’re looking at over £1,500.

You could look at an under sink unvented cylinder, rather than something
designed for making hot drinks.

That will give you 15L of hot water you can mix down in temperature,
without any scalding risk, and significantly cheaper:

https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/unvented-water-heaters-102-0000

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

In message <uvog9s$1k0d6$1@dont-email.me>, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
writes
>On 17 Apr 2024 at 12:49:51 BST, Tim Lamb wrote:
>
>> In message
>> <1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net
>> , Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> writes
>>>
>>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>>> lose interest.
>>>
>>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>>
>>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>>
>>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an
>>>unvented
>>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>>>
>>> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>>
>> No:-)
>>
>> I do have 4 years of Quooker experience which may be of interest.
>>
>> Lesson 1. You can't have a plastic sink (Corrion) fed from a boiling
>> water outlet.
>>
>> Lesson 2. Quooker have a habit of upgrading/changing the versions of
>> their hot supply making d-i-y maintenance tortuous.
>>
>> Lesson 3. Stuff wears, even with only 2 elderly users. (tap body)
>>
>> Lesson 4. A simple de-scale is expensified as the sealant washer kit is
>> supplied with the Allen key and spanner already found in most handy man
>> tool kits.
>>
>> Otherwise it is a valuable time saver and helps de-clutter the sink
>> area.
>
>I'd be interested in a lesson 5: saving electricity.
>
>Their own FAQs suggest within 3p and 9p a day, to produce 3 litres of water.
>They don't say why it should vary. A kettle would boil that same water for 7p.
>Quite how a water store is potentially better than 100% efficient I don't
>know.

We had a long thread on lesson 5 some way back. I don't remember a
consensus. The convenience far outweighs the few pence saving either
way.

The farmhouse had an *undersink heater* as suggested. Very long run to a
low pressure supply.
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 17 Apr 2024 at 15:46:15 BST, Tim Lamb wrote:

> In message <uvog9s$1k0d6$1@dont-email.me>, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
> writes
>> On 17 Apr 2024 at 12:49:51 BST, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>
>>> In message
>>> <1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual
>>> .net, Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> writes
>>>>
>>>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>>>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>>>> lose interest.
>>>>
>>>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>>>
>>>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>>>
>>>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an
>>>> unvented
>>>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>>>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>>>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>>>
>>> No:-)
>>>
>>> I do have 4 years of Quooker experience which may be of interest.
>>>
>>> Lesson 1. You can't have a plastic sink (Corrion) fed from a boiling
>>> water outlet.
>>>
>>> Lesson 2. Quooker have a habit of upgrading/changing the versions of
>>> their hot supply making d-i-y maintenance tortuous.
>>>
>>> Lesson 3. Stuff wears, even with only 2 elderly users. (tap body)
>>>
>>> Lesson 4. A simple de-scale is expensified as the sealant washer kit is
>>> supplied with the Allen key and spanner already found in most handy man
>>> tool kits.
>>>
>>> Otherwise it is a valuable time saver and helps de-clutter the sink
>>> area.
>>
>> I'd be interested in a lesson 5: saving electricity.
>>
>> Their own FAQs suggest within 3p and 9p a day, to produce 3 litres of water.
>> They don't say why it should vary. A kettle would boil that same water for 7p.
>> Quite how a water store is potentially better than 100% efficient I don't
>> know.
>
> We had a long thread on lesson 5 some way back. I don't remember a
> consensus.

I don't either. This site has to my eye some decent analysis:

https://www.getenergysavvy.info/post/boiling-taps-real-costs

Basically, if heating water using electricity, the more hot water you use, the
greater the case for the hot water tap.

> The convenience far outweighs the few pence saving either
> way.
>

Probably the best way to look at it. That site suggests up to about £70 p.a.
extra. That's over 10% of my annual electricty bill.

> The farmhouse had an *undersink heater* as suggested. Very long run to a
> low pressure supply.
>>

Another variable.
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 17 Apr 2024 at 14:44:39 BST, Fredxx wrote:

> On 17/04/2024 13:00, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 17/04/2024 11:39, Tim+ wrote:
>>>
>>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>>> lose interest.
>>>
>>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>>
>>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>>
>>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an
>>> unvented
>>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>>
>> The temperature they quote is ideal for coffee, which, unlike tea,
>> should not be made with boiling water. However, even at that price, I
>> will stick with using a kettle.
>
> I have come across stay warm/hot kettles like this before:
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smart-Kettle-WEEKETT-Compatible-Temperature/dp/B09N9VSTGH?th=1
>
> A much more affordable experience.

I've one of these, rough equivalent - a little cheaper:

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/4239712

Very pleased with it. Insofar as a kettle can bring pleasure . . .

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 17 Apr 2024 at 15:46:15 BST, Tim Lamb wrote:
>
>> In message <uvog9s$1k0d6$1@dont-email.me>, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
>> writes
>>> On 17 Apr 2024 at 12:49:51 BST, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message
>>>> <1108430803.735042864.462280.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual
>>>> .net, Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> writes
>>>>>
>>>>> As our tank is a long way from our kitchen sink I keep thinking about a
>>>>> boiling water tap like the Quooker but the moment I look at the price I
>>>>> lose interest.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are cheaper alternatives however and this one has caught my eye.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://fohen.co.uk/collections/3-in1-taps
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to be essentially the same as the Quooker insofar as it’s an
>>>>> unvented
>>>>> heat store (others, like the Quettle seem to be vented). The Quooker does
>>>>> maintain water at just above boiling which I don’t think the Fohen tap
>>>>> does. Dunno whether this has any practical implications.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone have any experience of these Quooker lookalikes?
>>>>
>>>> No:-)
>>>>
>>>> I do have 4 years of Quooker experience which may be of interest.
>>>>
>>>> Lesson 1. You can't have a plastic sink (Corrion) fed from a boiling
>>>> water outlet.
>>>>
>>>> Lesson 2. Quooker have a habit of upgrading/changing the versions of
>>>> their hot supply making d-i-y maintenance tortuous.
>>>>
>>>> Lesson 3. Stuff wears, even with only 2 elderly users. (tap body)
>>>>
>>>> Lesson 4. A simple de-scale is expensified as the sealant washer kit is
>>>> supplied with the Allen key and spanner already found in most handy man
>>>> tool kits.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise it is a valuable time saver and helps de-clutter the sink
>>>> area.
>>>
>>> I'd be interested in a lesson 5: saving electricity.
>>>
>>> Their own FAQs suggest within 3p and 9p a day, to produce 3 litres of water.
>>> They don't say why it should vary. A kettle would boil that same water for 7p.
>>> Quite how a water store is potentially better than 100% efficient I don't
>>> know.
>>
>> We had a long thread on lesson 5 some way back. I don't remember a
>> consensus.
>
> I don't either. This site has to my eye some decent analysis:
>
> https://www.getenergysavvy.info/post/boiling-taps-real-costs
>
> Basically, if heating water using electricity, the more hot water you use, the
> greater the case for the hot water tap.
>
>> The convenience far outweighs the few pence saving either
>> way.
>>

Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but I’ve been
swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable counter
space).

I’ve gone for the fohen tap. If it turns out to be crap I’ll let you all
know.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but I’ve been
> swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable counter
> space).
>
> I’ve gone for the fohen tap. If it turns out to be crap I’ll let you all
> know.
>
> Tim
>

Problem is that it is NOT equivalent to a Quooker, and it WON'T do what
you're setting out to achieve.

It will be ok for making tea and coffee, but little use for anything
else. The blurb says that the hot and cold taps use your *existing*
supplies - so the hot will still be coming from a long way away.

The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water from
the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
temperature. Mine has a separate boiling water tap - for which spares
are readily available albeit at an inflated price. Mine also has a
capacity of 7 litres which is much more useful for filling a large
washing-up bowl than the Fohen's 2.4 litre tank.

We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
installation. I'm not sure of the economics - the cost of heating the
water with electricity rather than gas but then having to waste a lot of
hot metered water getting it to the tap. Either way, it's well worth it
for the convenience.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 17 Apr 2024 at 23:39:30 BST, Roger Mills wrote:

> On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but I’ve been
>> swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable counter
>> space).
>>
>> I’ve gone for the fohen tap. If it turns out to be crap I’ll let you all
>> know.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> Problem is that it is NOT equivalent to a Quooker, and it WON'T do what
> you're setting out to achieve.
>
> It will be ok for making tea and coffee, but little use for anything
> else. The blurb says that the hot and cold taps use your *existing*
> supplies - so the hot will still be coming from a long way away.
>

The FAQs say the tap's tank takes water from the cold water supply:

https://fohen.co.uk/pages/faqs

(How do boiling taps work?)

It looks as though you can keep your existing hot water supply and use it
and/or the boiling water tap as required - I think that's a characteristic of
all of these things?

> The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water from
> the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
> temperature.

Same as the Fohen, although only 98C.

> Mine has a separate boiling water tap - for which spares
> are readily available albeit at an inflated price.

I think this thread has highlighted that economic cost is not a major
consideration for people thinking about using boiling water taps. That said,
it'd be well worth asking about spares at the time of buying.

> Mine also has a
> capacity of 7 litres which is much more useful for filling a large
> washing-up bowl than the Fohen's 2.4 litre tank.
>

Yes, that's quite small - but enough I'd have thought for one sink of washing
up.

The larger the tank, the more it'll cost to run, all other things equal.
That's a limitation of the link I gave - it's not clear which models are
tested (although it does list assumed tank sizes - maybe it can be deduced).

> We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
> with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
> installation. I'm not sure of the economics

There's a breakdown in the link I gave upthread. The big variation in running
costs quite surprised me - I can only think it's down to tank capacity and the
insulation of the tank.

> - the cost of heating the
> water with electricity rather than gas

A decent rule of thumb is electricity costs 4 times as much as a modern combi
boiler to provide hot water for cleaning and washing.

Boiling water taps work out about the same, running costs wise, as a kettle
for most uses (about 10l of boiling water per day).

> but then having to waste a lot of
> hot metered water getting it to the tap.

Indeed - my combi takes a full minute to get hot water to the bath.

> Either way, it's well worth it
> for the convenience.

I could add the capital outlay, maintenance and repair, environmental cost and
waste of energy to the running costs to achieve that convenience. But I won't
:-)

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but I’ve been
>> swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable counter
>> space).
>>
>> I’ve gone for the fohen tap. If it turns out to be crap I’ll let you all
>> know.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> Problem is that it is NOT equivalent to a Quooker, and it WON'T do what
> you're setting out to achieve.

Ah, but my goals have changed. ;-)

>
> It will be ok for making tea and coffee, but little use for anything
> else.

Making tea, coffee + filling pans for boiling veg.

> The blurb says that the hot and cold taps use your *existing*
> supplies - so the hot will still be coming from a long way away.

Doesn’t stop me mixing small quantities of boiling water+ cold water for
small quantities of “instant” warm water.

>
> The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water from
> the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
> temperature.

For £1500. I’m sure it’s a lovely thing but it’s a lot of money. If it
was part of a major kitchen refit I’d consider it.

> Mine has a separate boiling water tap - for which spares
> are readily available albeit at an inflated price. Mine also has a
> capacity of 7 litres which is much more useful for filling a large
> washing-up bowl than the Fohen's 2.4 litre tank.

But a smaller tank probably has smaller heat losses. If I want to fill a
sink I would just use the regular supply.

> We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
> with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
> installation. I'm not sure of the economics - the cost of heating the
> water with electricity rather than gas but then having to waste a lot of
> hot metered water getting it to the tap. Either way, it's well worth it
> for the convenience.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article <l8b1d2Fs5f6U2@mid.individual.net>,
Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:

> >
> >
> > Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but I‘ve been
> > swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable counter
> > space).
> >
> > I‘ve gone for the fohen tap. If it turns out to be crap I‘ll let you all
> > know.
> >
> > Tim
> >

> Problem is that it is NOT equivalent to a Quooker, and it WON'T do what
> you're setting out to achieve.

> It will be ok for making tea and coffee, but little use for anything
> else. The blurb says that the hot and cold taps use your *existing*
> supplies - so the hot will still be coming from a long way away.

> The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water from
> the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
> temperature. Mine has a separate boiling water tap - for which spares
> are readily available albeit at an inflated price. Mine also has a
> capacity of 7 litres which is much more useful for filling a large
> washing-up bowl than the Fohen's 2.4 litre tank.

> We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
> with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
> installation. I'm not sure of the economics - the cost of heating the
> water with electricity rather than gas but then having to waste a lot of
> hot metered water getting it to the tap. Either way, it's well worth it
> for the convenience.
> --
> Che

Presumably you don't live in a hard water area.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 18/04/2024 08:30, charles wrote:
> In article <l8b1d2Fs5f6U2@mid.individual.net>,
> Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but I‘ve been
>>> swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable counter
>>> space).
>>>
>>> I‘ve gone for the fohen tap. If it turns out to be crap I‘ll let you all
>>> know.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>
>> Problem is that it is NOT equivalent to a Quooker, and it WON'T do what
>> you're setting out to achieve.
>
>> It will be ok for making tea and coffee, but little use for anything
>> else. The blurb says that the hot and cold taps use your *existing*
>> supplies - so the hot will still be coming from a long way away.
>
>> The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water from
>> the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
>> temperature. Mine has a separate boiling water tap - for which spares
>> are readily available albeit at an inflated price. Mine also has a
>> capacity of 7 litres which is much more useful for filling a large
>> washing-up bowl than the Fohen's 2.4 litre tank.
>
>> We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
>> with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
>> installation. I'm not sure of the economics - the cost of heating the
>> water with electricity rather than gas but then having to waste a lot of
>> hot metered water getting it to the tap. Either way, it's well worth it
>> for the convenience.
>> --
>> Che
>
> Presumably you don't live in a hard water area.
>

Unless a water softener is also fitted, probably at extra cost.

--
Colin Bignell

In article <-9qcnX3msaF6Tb37nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
> On 18/04/2024 08:30, charles wrote:
> > In article <l8b1d2Fs5f6U2@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
> > <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but Ive
> >>> been swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable
> >>> counter space).
> >>>
> >>> Ive gone for the fohen tap. If it turns out to be crap Ill let you
> >>> all know.
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >
> >> Problem is that it is NOT equivalent to a Quooker, and it WON'T do
> >> what you're setting out to achieve.
> >
> >> It will be ok for making tea and coffee, but little use for anything
> >> else. The blurb says that the hot and cold taps use your *existing*
> >> supplies - so the hot will still be coming from a long way away.
> >
> >> The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water
> >> from the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
> >> temperature. Mine has a separate boiling water tap - for which spares
> >> are readily available albeit at an inflated price. Mine also has a
> >> capacity of 7 litres which is much more useful for filling a large
> >> washing-up bowl than the Fohen's 2.4 litre tank.
> >
> >> We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
> >> with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
> >> installation. I'm not sure of the economics - the cost of heating the
> >> water with electricity rather than gas but then having to waste a lot
> >> of hot metered water getting it to the tap. Either way, it's well
> >> worth it for the convenience. -- Che
> >
> > Presumably you don't live in a hard water area.
> >

> Unless a water softener is also fitted, probably at extra cost.

You shouldn't fit a water softener in the drinking water supply.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In message <-9qcnX3msaF6Tb37nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>, Colin
Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> writes

snip.
>On 18/04/2024 08:30, charles wrote:
>> Presumably you don't live in a hard water area.
>>
>
>Unless a water softener is also fitted, probably at extra cost.

Our water comes from the Chiltern hills! Basic Quooker needs a de-scale
roughly once per year. Seals can be re-used with care.

Sink DHW is from a softened supply.
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 17/04/2024 11:59, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> snip <
>
> Don't know if anybody else here worked in Lyons in the school holidays
> but it seems to me the hot water tap is what we used to call "the steam"
> in Lyons.
>

Nope, but I did my management training at 213 Picadilly & Cadby Hall

--
Regards
wasbit

On 18/04/2024 10:08, charles wrote:
> In article <-9qcnX3msaF6Tb37nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>, Colin Bignell
> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 18/04/2024 08:30, charles wrote:
>>> In article <l8b1d2Fs5f6U2@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
>>> <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but Ive
>>>>> been swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable
>>>>> counter space).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ive gone for the fohen tap. If it turns out to be crap Ill let you
>>>>> all know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Problem is that it is NOT equivalent to a Quooker, and it WON'T do
>>>> what you're setting out to achieve.
>>>
>>>> It will be ok for making tea and coffee, but little use for anything
>>>> else. The blurb says that the hot and cold taps use your *existing*
>>>> supplies - so the hot will still be coming from a long way away.
>>>
>>>> The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water
>>>> from the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
>>>> temperature. Mine has a separate boiling water tap - for which spares
>>>> are readily available albeit at an inflated price. Mine also has a
>>>> capacity of 7 litres which is much more useful for filling a large
>>>> washing-up bowl than the Fohen's 2.4 litre tank.
>>>
>>>> We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
>>>> with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
>>>> installation. I'm not sure of the economics - the cost of heating the
>>>> water with electricity rather than gas but then having to waste a lot
>>>> of hot metered water getting it to the tap. Either way, it's well
>>>> worth it for the convenience. -- Che
>>>
>>> Presumably you don't live in a hard water area.
>>>
>
>> Unless a water softener is also fitted, probably at extra cost.
>
> You shouldn't fit a water softener in the drinking water supply.
>

Only if you are on a low sodium diet or the water is exceptionally hard.
Otherwise, softened water is perfectly safe to drink.

--
Colin Bignell

On 18/04/2024 05:41, RJH wrote:

>
> The FAQs say the tap's tank takes water from the cold water supply:
>
> https://fohen.co.uk/pages/faqs
>
> (How do boiling taps work?)
>
> It looks as though you can keep your existing hot water supply and use it
> and/or the boiling water tap as required - I think that's a characteristic of
> all of these things?

The way I read it is that the fohen uses the *existing* hot water supply
for the hot sink tap. So, if the hot water comes from a tank in the
airing cupboard half a mile away, it will *still* do that.
>
>> The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water from
>> the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
>> temperature.
>
> Same as the Fohen, although only 98C.
>
That's not my understanding. The fohen's thermostat can be adjusted to
provide a wide range of temperatures - something like 50 to 98 (I forget
the exact figures). Then *all* the water comes out at whatever
temperature you set. If you set it low enough to wash your hands without
scalding them, it's no use for making tea. If you set it hot enough for
tea, it dangerous for other uses.

If you *only* want a boiling water tap for making tea, etc., and you
have an existing adequate hot water supply to the sink tap, the fohen
would be fine. The the OP initially gave the impression that the
existing hot supply took too long to run hot.

As I said further up the thread, my Quooker has two outputs - one which
goes to the boiling water tap and one which goes via a mixing valve -
which blends boiling with cold - to the sink's hot tap (with the
original hot supply from the airing cupboard disconnected).

By blending 7 litres of water at 100+ degrees with the same quantity of
cold at (say) 10 degrees, I can get 14 litres of hot water at 55 degrees
- which is ideal for a large washing up session. If the fohen's stat was
set to produce water at 55 degrees, it's 2.4 litre capacity would be
totally inadequate for a lot of washing up. If set at a higher
temperature, there's no safe way of blending it with cold.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 18/04/2024 08:30, charles wrote:
> In article <l8b1d2Fs5f6U2@mid.individual.net>,
> Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:
>

>
>> We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
>> with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
>> installation. I'm not sure of the economics - the cost of heating the
>> water with electricity rather than gas but then having to waste a lot of
>> hot metered water getting it to the tap. Either way, it's well worth it
>> for the convenience.
>> --
>> Che
>
> Presumably you don't live in a hard water area.
>

No, actually our water is quite hard - but it's not caused any obvious
problems so far.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 18/04/2024 11:34, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 18/04/2024 10:08, charles wrote:
>> In article <-9qcnX3msaF6Tb37nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>, Colin Bignell
>> <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 18/04/2024 08:30, charles wrote:
>>>> In article <l8b1d2Fs5f6U2@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
>>>>      <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 17/04/2024 19:46, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the link. What I kinda suspected regarding costs but Ive
>>>>>> been swayed by the convenience factor (and clearing a bit of valuable
>>>>>> counter space).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ive gone for the fohen tap.  If it turns out to be crap Ill let you
>>>>>> all know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Problem is that it is NOT equivalent to a Quooker, and it WON'T do
>>>>> what you're setting out to achieve.
>>>>
>>>>> It will be ok for making tea and coffee, but little use for anything
>>>>> else. The blurb says that the hot and cold taps use your *existing*
>>>>> supplies - so the hot will still be coming from a long way away.
>>>>
>>>>> The Quooker combi, on the other hand, feeds the hot tap with water
>>>>> from the boiling water tank mixed with cold to provide an appropriate
>>>>> temperature. Mine has a separate boiling water tap - for which spares
>>>>> are readily available albeit at an inflated price. Mine also has a
>>>>> capacity of 7 litres which is much more useful for filling a large
>>>>> washing-up bowl than the Fohen's 2.4 litre tank.
>>>>
>>>>> We've had the Quooker for at least 10 years and have been very pleased
>>>>> with it. It cost just under £1000 at the time, and I did a DIY
>>>>> installation. I'm not sure of the economics - the cost of heating the
>>>>> water with electricity rather than gas but then having to waste a lot
>>>>> of hot metered water getting it to the tap. Either way, it's well
>>>>> worth it for the convenience. -- Che
>>>>
>>>> Presumably you don't live in a hard water area.
>>>>
>>
>>> Unless a water softener is also fitted, probably at extra cost.
>>
>> You shouldn't fit a water softener in the drinking water supply.
>>
>
> Only if you are on a low sodium diet or the water is exceptionally hard.
> Otherwise, softened water is perfectly safe to drink.
>
>
It tastes a bit weird. All that sodium carbonate...
--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14