Advise please:
We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.
Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
they like!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

In message <u4lcne$30r7g$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 24 May 2023 16:07:10,
Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>Advise please:
>We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
>time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
>here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
>basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
>retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
>our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
>‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.

Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).

>Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
>welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
>involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
>they like!
>
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, Video (I came, I saw, I'll watch it again later) - Mik from S+AS
Limited (mik@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <u4lcne$30r7g$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 24 May 2023 16:07:10,
> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>> Advise please:
>> We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
>> time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
>> here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
>> basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
>> retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
>> our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
>> ‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.
>
> Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
> about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
> PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
> know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
> off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
> something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
>
>> Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
>> welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
>> involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
>> they like!
>>
>>

Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service too.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Wed, 24 May 2023 18:40:45 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

>J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u4lcne$30r7g$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 24 May 2023 16:07:10,
>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>>> Advise please:
>>> We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
>>> time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
>>> here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
>>> basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
>>> retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
>>> our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
>>> ‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.
>>
>> Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
>> about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
>> PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
>> know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
>> off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
>> something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
>>
>>> Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
>>> welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
>>> involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
>>> they like!
>>>
>>>
>
>Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service too.

I have a landline and internet access,no packages, with Vodafone for
£25.54 a month. I think they took us over from Talktalk. Or I
switched. It's been at least a year. They seem ok. We had the same
deal with Talktalk but it seemed to go up. I have a feweling I thought
this deal would be around £20 a year but it's a bit more. We haven't
got superfast or anything. Just reasonable speed.

On Wed, 24 May 2023 18:40:45 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

Oh the plan is this
Superfast 2

Superfast 2

Price
£30.54 monthly
Contract Agreement & Term
Contract ends on 10/01/2024
24 Months
Current Discounts
Broadband discount 5.00 GBP off 24 months
Discount applied to VFC3502135
Inclusive Extras
Unlimited Fibre 76

Bundle and extras £0.00
£0.00 (EXC. VAT)
From 14 April to 13 May 2023
> Fixed Line Access £0.00
£0.00 (EXC. VAT 20%)
> Free Caller Display £0.00
£0.00 (EXC. VAT 20%)
> Phone - Standard Support £0.00
£0.00 (EXC. VAT 20%)

On 24-May-23 19:40, Mike McMillan wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u4lcne$30r7g$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 24 May 2023 16:07:10,
>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>>> Advise please:
>>> We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
>>> time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
>>> here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
>>> basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
>>> retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
>>> our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
>>> ‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.
>>
>> Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
>> about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
>> PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
>> know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
>> off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
>> something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
>>
>>> Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
>>> welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
>>> involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
>>> they like!
>>>
>>>
>
> Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service too.
>
We have what Jpg mentioned from PlusNet, including the landline + free
weekend & evening calls, for a tad under thirty squid[1].

(Call charges during 'peak' hours are expensive, so we just use mobiles
then.)

[1] I shudda haggled, it usually pays off.

--
Sam Plusnet

In message <hlvbM.2045444$t5W7.375723@fx13.iad> at Wed, 24 May 2023
22:29:48, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>On 24-May-23 19:40, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[]
>>> Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
>>> about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
>>> PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
>>> know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
>>> off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
>>> something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
[]
>> Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service
>>too.

Sorry, I should have mentioned I do too (anytime calls, too). Last
haggle - or it might have been the one before - I took a nominal
_decrease_ in speed to get the anytime calls; I say nominal, because it
was from (IIRR) somewhere around 60-70 speed units, and went down to
about half that - but I don't think I'm ever aware of that being a
problem; when I _am_ aware of waiting for something, I usually feel it's
a loading problem at the server I'm downloading from, rather than
limited by my local connection. (The "anytime" calls are limited to an
hour, after which they go back to the exorbitant pence-per-minute; if
chatting to friends and family, that's fine, whoever made the call just
hangs up and redials - but when you're on hold, it can get worrying!)

Note that - with IMO a criminal lack of publicity - the industry's
moving towards the cessation of POTS (plain old telephone service), with
a target date of 2025. We'll get VOIP instead (your conventional 'phone
will just plug into your router), and there'll be no practical
difference most of the time - but not during power cuts, especially ones
lasting days, especially for emergency purposes. (I can't see them
giving even needy people a battery-backed router that will last days.)
>>
>We have what Jpg mentioned from PlusNet, including the landline + free
>weekend & evening calls, for a tad under thirty squid[1].
>
>(Call charges during 'peak' hours are expensive, so we just use mobiles
>then.)
>
>[1] I shudda haggled, it usually pays off.
>
Yes, I used to have evening-and-weekend only, but the halving of
(nominal) speed in return for anytime was a good trade for me. If you're
a multi-use household, or watch HD material (I think), the speed may be
more important to you.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Nunc Tutus Exitus Computarus (It is now safe to turn off your computer).

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 10:31:45 PM UTC+1, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 24-May-23 19:40, Mike McMillan wrote:
> > J. P. Gilliver <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
> >> In message <u4lcne$30r7g$1...@dont-email.me> at Wed, 24 May 2023 16:07:10,
> >> Mike McMillan <toodl...@virginmedia.com> writes
> >>> Advise please:
> >>> We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
> >>> time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
> >>> here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
> >>> basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
> >>> retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
> >>> our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
> >>> ‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.
> >>
> >> Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
> >> about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
> >> PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
> >> know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
> >> off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
> >> something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
> >>
> >>> Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
> >>> welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
> >>> involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
> >>> they like!
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service too.
> >
> We have what Jpg mentioned from PlusNet, including the landline + free
> weekend & evening calls, for a tad under thirty squid[1].
>
> (Call charges during 'peak' hours are expensive, so we just use mobiles
> then.)
>
> [1] I shudda haggled, it usually pays off.
>
> --
You and JPEG are currently (with 14%+ uplift from April???) paying far less to Plusnet than I was paying before I closed my account. I think they say that they price their service competetively according to the offers local to the customer so I guess I just live in an uncompetetive area. Anyway, I closed my account because I knew I was going to be away for 6+ months and the £34pm + annual uplift was more than I wanted to pay for dead air.

I'll be following this thread with interest...

Nick

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:42:48 PM UTC+1, Mike McMillan wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
> > In message <u4lcne$30r7g$1...@dont-email.me> at Wed, 24 May 2023 16:07:10,
> > Mike McMillan <toodl...@virginmedia.com> writes
> >> Advise please:
> >> We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
> >> time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
> >> here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
> >> basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
> >> retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
> >> our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
> >> ‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.
> >
> > Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
> > about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
> > PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
> > know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
> > off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
> > something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
> >
> >> Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
> >> welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
> >> involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
> >> they like!
> >>
> >>
> Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service too.

One of the reasons I dropped the Plusnet service with landline is the previously mentioned plan of BT to remove all copper wire connections within a very short space of time. I hardly ever make or recieved landline calls when I had it (three or four a year, if that(really!!!)) and its only value was the uninterruptable service via copper in case of emergency. If that emergency lifeline is being taken away then it no longer has value for me. So Mike.... apart from the bother of having to tell people you no longer have a landline, are there any special services that you use that can only be delivered by landline and what are you going to do about them when the copper lines all disappear by 2025?

I'm still in an experimental phase, trying to determine what services I need but at the moment I have a mobile phone and Skype. I have added my mobile phone number to Skype so that I can make phone calls more easily through Skype but people will still see my mobile number on caller display. With all the difficulties for me of hearing what people are saying on the mobile phone plus "press 1 for this and 2 for that.." I find telephoning from Skype a LOT easier. And cheaper too - except for 0800-type numbers.

Television. If I had a television I could connect it to the antenna on the roof and get all the free-to-air Freeview channels or to the Sky dish on my wall (which ten years after moving in I still haven't bothered to remove) and get all the FreeSat channels. At least, I presume they are all still broadcasting, aren't they?

To play back at a more convenient time, I could stream from the internet from iPlayer or 4player or whatever it is called and if I wanted to record stuff (shhhhhh....) there's always get_iplayer, also on t'internet.

I'm currently still experimenting with a MiFi gadget which gives me access to the internet via the 4G mobile phone network. Mike, it definitely is nowhere near as fast as the set-up you currently have but it is faster than my old copper wire Plusnet Broadband. If you need the speed for professional reasons then there is no contest - you need something with more speed than MiFi but Liliana and I can be doing different things on different devices using my MiFi without any interaction being obvious and I can stream directly from YouTube and the like at 1080 resolution without problem and I can download higher resolution videos to watch off line. It takes minutes rather than seconds to download a full movie but if you are saving a shed-load of money by doing it that way, is it a compromise you would be willing to make?

Nick

Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:42:48 PM UTC+1, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <u4lcne$30r7g$1...@dont-email.me> at Wed, 24 May 2023 16:07:10,
>>> Mike McMillan <toodl...@virginmedia.com> writes
>>>> Advise please:
>>>> We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
>>>> time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
>>>> here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
>>>> basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
>>>> retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
>>>> our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
>>>> ‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.
>>>
>>> Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
>>> about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
>>> PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
>>> know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
>>> off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
>>> something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
>>>
>>>> Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
>>>> welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
>>>> involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
>>>> they like!
>>>>
>>>>
>> Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service too.
>
> One of the reasons I dropped the Plusnet service with landline is the
> previously mentioned plan of BT to remove all copper wire connections
> within a very short space of time. I hardly ever make or recieved
> landline calls when I had it (three or four a year, if that(really!!!))
> and its only value was the uninterruptable service via copper in case of
> emergency. If that emergency lifeline is being taken away then it no
> longer has value for me. So Mike.... apart from the bother of having to
> tell people you no longer have a landline, are there any special services
> that you use that can only be delivered by landline and what are you
> going to do about them when the copper lines all disappear by 2025?
>
> I'm still in an experimental phase, trying to determine what services I
> need but at the moment I have a mobile phone and Skype. I have added my
> mobile phone number to Skype so that I can make phone calls more easily
> through Skype but people will still see my mobile number on caller
> display. With all the difficulties for me of hearing what people are
> saying on the mobile phone plus "press 1 for this and 2 for that.." I
> find telephoning from Skype a LOT easier. And cheaper too - except for 0800-type numbers.
>
> Television. If I had a television I could connect it to the antenna on
> the roof and get all the free-to-air Freeview channels or to the Sky dish
> on my wall (which ten years after moving in I still haven't bothered to
> remove) and get all the FreeSat channels. At least, I presume they are
> all still broadcasting, aren't they?
>
> To play back at a more convenient time, I could stream from the internet
> from iPlayer or 4player or whatever it is called and if I wanted to
> record stuff (shhhhhh....) there's always get_iplayer, also on t'internet.
>
> I'm currently still experimenting with a MiFi gadget which gives me
> access to the internet via the 4G mobile phone network. Mike, it
> definitely is nowhere near as fast as the set-up you currently have but
> it is faster than my old copper wire Plusnet Broadband. If you need the
> speed for professional reasons then there is no contest - you need
> something with more speed than MiFi but Liliana and I can be doing
> different things on different devices using my MiFi without any
> interaction being obvious and I can stream directly from YouTube and the
> like at 1080 resolution without problem and I can download higher
> resolution videos to watch off line. It takes minutes rather than seconds
> to download a full movie but if you are saving a shed-load of money by
> doing it that way, is it a compromise you would be willing to make?
>
> Nick
>

We will probably end up staying with VOTR to avoid all the faff entailed in
making a change but, I am about to investigate if we can dispense with
their TV service and the recording chamine. We need the landline as Mrs.
McToodles has a hearing impairment that makes taking or making calls on her
phobile irksome and difficult; we have 2 specially adapted phones with
extra features purchased only recently. We have Amazon Prime and the
ethernet connected device to receive various TV services etc.; I shall
check that this provides the limited number of TV channels we require via
broadband. If I can dispense with VOTR TV service and recorder, that should
reduce the fee (but they will probably tell me that the TV element with
recorder is ‘free’ and that there is no reduction!

As to the change to phone via fibre, well this is also irksome as it
requires an electrical socket to power a USB adapter - we don’t have a
‘spare’ socket for this and in any case, the sockets that we have are a
long way from the phone handset locations. I don’t even know if these USB
adaptors will be capable of supplying powering for the lights and gizmos on
the handset; I know they OUGHT to be but… There is also the matter of
emergency calls during power outages …. I have no intention of telling VOTR
that we have power backup - I don’t even know if their service will be
powered at such times, again, I know they OUGHT to be but…. VOTR tell us
there is a facility they can provide (FOC, I believe) that plugs into the
hub for use in these situations - I suspect it involves a USB adaptor that
plugs into a battery that works with a special handset…

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Thu, 25 May 2023 13:29:21 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

>Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:42:48?PM UTC+1,
>> Nick
>>
>
>We will probably end up staying with VOTR to avoid all the faff entailed in
>making a change but, I am about to investigate if we can dispense with
>their TV service and the recording chamine. We need the landline as Mrs.
>McToodles has a hearing impairment that makes taking or making calls on her
>phobile irksome and difficult; we have 2 specially adapted phones with
>extra features purchased only recently. We have Amazon Prime and the
>ethernet connected device to receive various TV services etc.; I shall
>check that this provides the limited number of TV channels we require via
>broadband. If I can dispense with VOTR TV service and recorder, that should
>reduce the fee (but they will probably tell me that the TV element with
>recorder is ‘free’ and that there is no reduction!
>
>As to the change to phone via fibre, well this is also irksome as it
>requires an electrical socket to power a USB adapter - we don’t have a
>‘spare’ socket for this and in any case, the sockets that we have are a
>long way from the phone handset locations. I don’t even know if these USB
>adaptors will be capable of supplying powering for the lights and gizmos on
>the handset; I know they OUGHT to be but… There is also the matter of
>emergency calls during power outages …. I have no intention of telling VOTR
>that we have power backup - I don’t even know if their service will be
>powered at such times, again, I know they OUGHT to be but…. VOTR tell us
>there is a facility they can provide (FOC, I believe) that plugs into the
>hub for use in these situations - I suspect it involves a USB adaptor that
>plugs into a battery that works with a special handset…

You probably know that ringing up and asking to end the service as you
are leaving often results in a better deal.

Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2023 13:29:21 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:42:48?PM UTC+1,
>>> Nick
>>>
>>
>> We will probably end up staying with VOTR to avoid all the faff entailed in
>> making a change but, I am about to investigate if we can dispense with
>> their TV service and the recording chamine. We need the landline as Mrs.
>> McToodles has a hearing impairment that makes taking or making calls on her
>> phobile irksome and difficult; we have 2 specially adapted phones with
>> extra features purchased only recently. We have Amazon Prime and the
>> ethernet connected device to receive various TV services etc.; I shall
>> check that this provides the limited number of TV channels we require via
>> broadband. If I can dispense with VOTR TV service and recorder, that should
>> reduce the fee (but they will probably tell me that the TV element with
>> recorder is ‘free’ and that there is no reduction!
>>
>> As to the change to phone via fibre, well this is also irksome as it
>> requires an electrical socket to power a USB adapter - we don’t have a
>> ‘spare’ socket for this and in any case, the sockets that we have are a
>> long way from the phone handset locations. I don’t even know if these USB
>> adaptors will be capable of supplying powering for the lights and gizmos on
>> the handset; I know they OUGHT to be but… There is also the matter of
>> emergency calls during power outages …. I have no intention of telling VOTR
>> that we have power backup - I don’t even know if their service will be
>> powered at such times, again, I know they OUGHT to be but…. VOTR tell us
>> there is a facility they can provide (FOC, I believe) that plugs into the
>> hub for use in these situations - I suspect it involves a USB adaptor that
>> plugs into a battery that works with a special handset…
>
>
> You probably know that ringing up and asking to end the service as you
> are leaving often results in a better deal.
>

Yup

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 25-May-23 5:02, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <hlvbM.2045444$t5W7.375723@fx13.iad> at Wed, 24 May 2023
> 22:29:48, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>> On 24-May-23 19:40, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> []
>>>> Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
>>>> about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
>>>> PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
>>>> know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
>>>> off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I
>>>> miss
>>>> something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
> []
>>>  Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service too.
>
> Sorry, I should have mentioned I do too (anytime calls, too). Last
> haggle - or it might have been the one before - I took a nominal
> _decrease_ in speed to get the anytime calls; I say nominal, because it
> was from (IIRR) somewhere around 60-70 speed units, and went down to
> about half that - but I don't think I'm ever aware of that being a
> problem; when I _am_ aware of waiting for something, I usually feel it's
> a loading problem at the server I'm downloading from, rather than
> limited by my local connection. (The "anytime" calls are limited to an
> hour, after which they go back to the exorbitant pence-per-minute; if
> chatting to friends and family, that's fine, whoever made the call just
> hangs up and redials - but when you're on hold, it can get worrying!)
>
> Note that - with IMO a criminal lack of publicity - the industry's
> moving towards the cessation of POTS (plain old telephone service), with
> a target date of 2025. We'll get VOIP instead (your conventional 'phone
> will just plug into your router), and there'll be no practical
> difference most of the time - but not during power cuts, especially ones
> lasting days, especially for emergency purposes. (I can't see them
> giving even needy people a battery-backed router that will last days.)
>>>
>> We have what Jpg mentioned from PlusNet, including the landline + free
>> weekend & evening calls, for a tad under thirty squid[1].
>>
>> (Call charges during 'peak' hours are expensive, so we just use
>> mobiles then.)
>>
>> [1] I shudda haggled, it usually pays off.
>>
> Yes, I used to have evening-and-weekend only, but the halving of
> (nominal) speed in return for anytime was a good trade for me. If you're
> a multi-use household, or watch HD material (I think), the speed may be
> more important to you.

I actually moved in the opposite direction (from 20Mb?? to 60Mb-ish) but
haggled over the price, so (at that time) our monthly bill went down
rather than up.
I could reverse that change. After all we are both retired and don't
download anything where a sense of urgency prevails.

I asked about shifting to 'Anytime' from "Evenings & Weekends", but we
made & make so few calls that it just wasn't worth it.

If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.

--
Sam Plusnet

In message <g7PbM.3635404$vBI8.682294@fx15.iad> at Thu, 25 May 2023
21:00:12, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
[]
>I asked about shifting to 'Anytime' from "Evenings & Weekends", but we
>made & make so few calls that it just wasn't worth it.

It becomes self-fulfilling, though - you hold back on _making_ calls
just because you're aware they cost per minute. Rather like the internet
didn't really take off on dialup, because one was aware that every
minute cost you (and when broadband started to take off, cost per
megabyte/gigabyte pricing wasn't uncommon, which had a similar deadening
effect).
>
>If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.
>
_If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

science is not intended to be foolproof. Science is about crawling toward the
truth over time. - Scott Adams, 2015-2-2

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>In message <g7PbM.3635404$vBI8.682294@fx15.iad> at Thu, 25 May 2023
>21:00:12, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>[]
>>I asked about shifting to 'Anytime' from "Evenings & Weekends", but we
>>made & make so few calls that it just wasn't worth it.
>
>It becomes self-fulfilling, though - you hold back on _making_ calls
>just because you're aware they cost per minute.

Not for us, we just very rarely make any calls, especially out of
business hours.

>>If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.
>>
>_If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
>good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.

I had PAYG for a long time, but they have really raised the
prices nowadays, and I have a MSE offer from Lebara which costs
£3 90 per month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB data, all
of which are plenty for my needs.

Our landline (now on Virgin via router) is really only used for
incoming calls, which apart from BVOFE calling me, are pretty
much all scams or cold calls of one kind or another.

The big advantage of landline (not literally any more) for
incoming is that we have cordless handsets around the house, and
are unlikely to miss a call. I am also happy to pop an old DECT
phone in my pocket when I am gardening or working around the
house, whereas I would be less happy to have my mobile at risk of
damage.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

On Fri, 26 May 2023 01:26:37 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <g7PbM.3635404$vBI8.682294@fx15.iad> at Thu, 25 May 2023
>21:00:12, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>[]
>>I asked about shifting to 'Anytime' from "Evenings & Weekends", but we
>>made & make so few calls that it just wasn't worth it.
>
>It becomes self-fulfilling, though - you hold back on _making_ calls
>just because you're aware they cost per minute. Rather like the internet

When I got my first modem in 1987, to be able to send messages to Capt
Ex at sea via umbrella, there were games online run by Micronet, on
Prestel. I got hooked on Shades and there were time charges for
playing and also phone charges for use. I had very high phone bills
for several quarters and Capt Ex was very upset :(.

>didn't really take off on dialup, because one was aware that every
>minute cost you (and when broadband started to take off, cost per
>megabyte/gigabyte pricing wasn't uncommon, which had a similar deadening
>effect).
>>
>>If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.
>>
>_If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
>good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.
We haven't got a deal I use the mobile mostly, notthe land line. .

Chris J Dixon wrote:

>Our landline (now on Virgin via router) is really only used for
>incoming calls, which apart from BVOFE calling me, are pretty
>much all scams or cold calls of one kind or another.

Sorry, fat finger trouble, BOFE, not a new term. :-(

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

On Fri, 26 May 2023 09:00:16 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
wrote:

>
>Not for us, we just very rarely make any calls, especially out of
>business hours.
>
>>>If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.
>>>
>>_If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
>>good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.
>
>I had PAYG for a long time, but they have really raised the
>prices nowadays, and I have a MSE offer from Lebara which costs
>£3 90 per month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB data, all
>of which are plenty for my needs.

That's an even better deal than mine. I've had a £5 a month sim with
virgin mobile for many years.Unlimited texts and

Oh, checked and it seems to have gone up
Exclusive 1000mins + 1GB

£6.79

Hmmmm. Might be worth phoning since I am very out of contract.

>
>Our landline (now on Virgin via router) is really only used for
>incoming calls, which apart from BVOFE calling me, are pretty
>much all scams or cold calls of one kind or another.
>
>The big advantage of landline (not literally any more) for
>incoming is that we have cordless handsets around the house, and
>are unlikely to miss a call. I am also happy to pop an old DECT
>phone in my pocket when I am gardening or working around the
>house, whereas I would be less happy to have my mobile at risk of
>damage.
>
>Chris

On Fri, 26 May 2023 09:00:16 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
wrote:

currnetly
1GB Data
F 1000 Minutes
G Unlimited Texts

This is a suggested plan, apparently
A plan similar to the one
you're on
£7.00 a month
Mobile plan
• 6GB Data
• Unlimited Minutes
• Unlimited Texts

Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:42:48 PM UTC+1, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <u4lcne$30r7g$1...@dont-email.me> at Wed, 24 May 2023 16:07:10,
>>> Mike McMillan <toodl...@virginmedia.com> writes
>>>> Advise please:
>>>> We have been with VOTR for some years and seen the charges rocket over that
>>>> time, they add to the packages and everything they offer is not required
>>>> here - but minimum package is now £69 a month. We have a need for very
>>>> basic TV (BBC and Channels 4 and 5 cover our needs) some means to record or
>>>> retrieve on demand. Basic email facilities and broadband I can plug into
>>>> our wifi. We don’t need sport channels, cartoons or any of the myriad of
>>>> ‘extras’ that are ‘free’ until the next contract bumps up the price.
>>>
>>> Is FreeView (with iPlayer for playback when you've missed; I don't know
>>> about 4 and 5, but I think they have something similar) no good? I pay
>>> PlusNet twentysomething a month, which gives me email and broadband. I
>>> know the industry seems to want us all to get our TV online, but I find
>>> off-air sufficient for my needs (with, as I say, iPlayer for when I miss
>>> something I actually care enough about, which isn't often).
>>>
>>>> Any suggestion of providers who aren’t asking silly prices would be
>>>> welcomed please. We are reluctant to change because of all the faff
>>>> involved but VOTR seemed to think they can increase their fees as much as
>>>> they like!
>>>>
>>>>
>> Sorry, I should have mentioned we have landline telephone service too.
>
> One of the reasons I dropped the Plusnet service with landline is the
> previously mentioned plan of BT to remove all copper wire connections
> within a very short space of time. I hardly ever make or recieved
> landline calls when I had it (three or four a year, if that(really!!!))
> and its only value was the uninterruptable service via copper in case of
> emergency. If that emergency lifeline is being taken away then it no
> longer has value for me. So Mike.... apart from the bother of having to
> tell people you no longer have a landline, are there any special services
> that you use that can only be delivered by landline and what are you
> going to do about them when the copper lines all disappear by 2025?
>
> I'm still in an experimental phase, trying to determine what services I
> need but at the moment I have a mobile phone and Skype. I have added my
> mobile phone number to Skype so that I can make phone calls more easily
> through Skype but people will still see my mobile number on caller
> display. With all the difficulties for me of hearing what people are
> saying on the mobile phone plus "press 1 for this and 2 for that.." I
> find telephoning from Skype a LOT easier. And cheaper too - except for 0800-type numbers.
>
> Television. If I had a television I could connect it to the antenna on
> the roof and get all the free-to-air Freeview channels or to the Sky dish
> on my wall (which ten years after moving in I still haven't bothered to
> remove) and get all the FreeSat channels. At least, I presume they are
> all still broadcasting, aren't they?
>
> To play back at a more convenient time, I could stream from the internet
> from iPlayer or 4player or whatever it is called and if I wanted to
> record stuff (shhhhhh....) there's always get_iplayer, also on t'internet.
>
> I'm currently still experimenting with a MiFi gadget which gives me
> access to the internet via the 4G mobile phone network. Mike, it
> definitely is nowhere near as fast as the set-up you currently have but
> it is faster than my old copper wire Plusnet Broadband. If you need the
> speed for professional reasons then there is no contest - you need
> something with more speed than MiFi but Liliana and I can be doing
> different things on different devices using my MiFi without any
> interaction being obvious and I can stream directly from YouTube and the
> like at 1080 resolution without problem and I can download higher
> resolution videos to watch off line. It takes minutes rather than seconds
> to download a full movie but if you are saving a shed-load of money by
> doing it that way, is it a compromise you would be willing to make?
>
> Nick
>

Yes, me. I struggle with mobiles, and where possible, as I do quite a lot
of voluntary work by phone, and these people aren’t usually allowed to use
a landline, they now get special dispensation. I answer questions helping
students doing projects on life as a visually impaired person. I invested
heavily in two landline phones designed for the hard of hearing, and they
have a *ginormous* phone pad.

Mrs McT

Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2023 13:29:21 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:42:48?PM UTC+1,
>>> Nick
>>>
>>
>> We will probably end up staying with VOTR to avoid all the faff entailed in
>> making a change but, I am about to investigate if we can dispense with
>> their TV service and the recording chamine. We need the landline as Mrs.
>> McToodles has a hearing impairment that makes taking or making calls on her
>> phobile irksome and difficult; we have 2 specially adapted phones with
>> extra features purchased only recently. We have Amazon Prime and the
>> ethernet connected device to receive various TV services etc.; I shall
>> check that this provides the limited number of TV channels we require via
>> broadband. If I can dispense with VOTR TV service and recorder, that should
>> reduce the fee (but they will probably tell me that the TV element with
>> recorder is ‘free’ and that there is no reduction!
>>
>> As to the change to phone via fibre, well this is also irksome as it
>> requires an electrical socket to power a USB adapter - we don’t have a
>> ‘spare’ socket for this and in any case, the sockets that we have are a
>> long way from the phone handset locations. I don’t even know if these USB
>> adaptors will be capable of supplying powering for the lights and gizmos on
>> the handset; I know they OUGHT to be but… There is also the matter of
>> emergency calls during power outages …. I have no intention of telling VOTR
>> that we have power backup - I don’t even know if their service will be
>> powered at such times, again, I know they OUGHT to be but…. VOTR tell us
>> there is a facility they can provide (FOC, I believe) that plugs into the
>> hub for use in these situations - I suspect it involves a USB adaptor that
>> plugs into a battery that works with a special handset…
>
>
> You probably know that ringing up and asking to end the service as you
> are leaving often results in a better deal.
>

Of course we did, and Virgin didn’t offer it. She was programmed with a
set dialogue and wasn’t changing it.

Mrs McT

In message <evo07ip2o3tne4kcqrfcqas2g1m28u9n6o@4ax.com> at Fri, 26 May
2023 09:00:16, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
[]
>>_If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
>>good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.
>
>I had PAYG for a long time, but they have really raised the
>prices nowadays, and I have a MSE offer from Lebara which costs
>£3 90 per month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB data, all
>of which are plenty for my needs.

Yes, even my ASDA one is now 15p a minute. BUT - I put 10 on it when I
bought it sometime last year, and still have 3.87 left. So clearly no
monthly contract would be cheap enough that I'd still be paying for
something I don't use.

Having said that, yours certainly sounds a good deal. Does it allow
tethering (use of the 'phone as a hotspot [most at least smartphones can
do this] so I could use a laptop with it)? Does it use a network (there
are only four networks really, though many companies selling access to
them) that gives you good coverage?

If you should go over your 1 GB (I can't imagine going over 300 minutes,
but that too), presumably it goes onto an exorbitant tariff rather than
just cutting you off (and I presume you have to pay by DD); do you get
any warning?

Finally, my Virgin SIM was originally PAYG, but the email I get from
them monthly that tells me I've got 1.52 credit left on it now seems to
tell me I have unlimited minutes; if I get it back, I must try making a
call to see if the credit goes down.

Incidentally, that's a two-SIM 'phone; I am surprised they aren't
commoner. It wasn't particularly expensive - a DOOGEE, 300 IIRR. (I've
just looked and their cheapest new model - 51.99 - is dual SIM, so it's
obviously something they do [model X95; 6.52", 2G+16G, on 2G/3G/4G,
Android 10.0].)
>
>Our landline (now on Virgin via router) is really only used for
>incoming calls, which apart from BVOFE calling me, are pretty
>much all scams or cold calls of one kind or another.

Peak time for scams for me seems to be about 10:30 in the morning, for
some reason. After having received them, I dial 1471 and it tells me a
number; I then dial 1572 option 1 and it tells me it was from an unknown
caller. I've recorded such a sequence and wanted to tweet it (if I can
detect it was a scam by that means, the telecomm. companies should be
able to), but Twitter won't accept an audio-only file, or the first
"video" file format I tried to turn it into.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There are two kinds of fool. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And
one says, "This is new, and therefore better."
-John Brunner, science fiction writer (1934-1995)

On 26-May-23 1:26, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <g7PbM.3635404$vBI8.682294@fx15.iad> at Thu, 25 May 2023
> 21:00:12, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
> []
>> I asked about shifting to 'Anytime' from "Evenings & Weekends", but we
>> made & make so few calls that it just wasn't worth it.
>
> It becomes self-fulfilling, though - you hold back on _making_ calls
> just because you're aware they cost per minute. Rather like the internet
> didn't really take off on dialup, because one was aware that every
> minute cost you (and when broadband started to take off, cost per
> megabyte/gigabyte pricing wasn't uncommon, which had a similar deadening
> effect).
>>
>> If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a
>> mobile.
>>
> _If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
> good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.

I pay an annual fee of £36. All calls & texts, plus a (v.small) amount
of data per month included within that.

--
Sam Plusnet

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>In message <evo07ip2o3tne4kcqrfcqas2g1m28u9n6o@4ax.com> at Fri, 26 May
>2023 09:00:16, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes

>>I had PAYG for a long time, but they have really raised the
>>prices nowadays, and I have a MSE offer from Lebara which costs
>>£3 90 per month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB data, all
>>of which are plenty for my needs.
>
>Yes, even my ASDA one is now 15p a minute. BUT - I put 10 on it when I
>bought it sometime last year, and still have 3.87 left. So clearly no
>monthly contract would be cheap enough that I'd still be paying for
>something I don't use.

Daytime calls on Virgin come to £1.95 for 10 minutes, so you
wouldn't need to use it much for the mobile to be a winner.

>Having said that, yours certainly sounds a good deal. Does it allow
>tethering (use of the 'phone as a hotspot [most at least smartphones can
>do this] so I could use a laptop with it)?

Apparently it does, within your data allowance, though I have had
to look this up, having no use for the feature myself.

>Does it use a network (there
>are only four networks really, though many companies selling access to
>them) that gives you good coverage?

Vodaphone

>If you should go over your 1 GB (I can't imagine going over 300 minutes,
>but that too), presumably it goes onto an exorbitant tariff rather than
>just cutting you off (and I presume you have to pay by DD); do you get
>any warning?

<https://mobile.lebara.com/gb/en/best-sim-only-deals/c/simo-contract>

"You don't have to worry about any out of bundle costs as Lebara
SIM only plans have been capped at zero out of bundle usage. This
means you don't get any bill shocks. "

However
<https://mobile.lebara.com/gb/en/rates>

These are Included as part of your plan but if you go over it
will cost you
Standard UK mobiles, landlines and voicemail 25p per minute
Texts to UK mobiles and landlines 19p per text
Mobile data * 9p/mb
* Only applicable for customers who joined Lebara and activated
their SIM before 24th May 2023.

I don't quite understand all of that. On one hand if you use up
your data, it is blocked, but if you are an older customer, you
get charged.

So far this has not happened, and is somewhat unlikely with my
typical usage.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

In message <23h37i5c6chn1ojpor421tttqat04p6t9k@4ax.com> at Sat, 27 May
2023 10:10:57, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
>J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>>In message <evo07ip2o3tne4kcqrfcqas2g1m28u9n6o@4ax.com> at Fri, 26 May
>>2023 09:00:16, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
>
>>>I had PAYG for a long time, but they have really raised the
>>>prices nowadays, and I have a MSE offer from Lebara which costs
>>>£3 90 per month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB data, all
>>>of which are plenty for my needs.
>>
>>Yes, even my ASDA one is now 15p a minute. BUT - I put 10 on it when I
>>bought it sometime last year, and still have 3.87 left. So clearly no
>>monthly contract would be cheap enough that I'd still be paying for
>>something I don't use.
>
>Daytime calls on Virgin come to £1.95 for 10 minutes, so you
>wouldn't need to use it much for the mobile to be a winner.

My ASDA one would cost me 1.50 for 10 minutes. As I seem to have used
6.13 since I bought it last year, that equates to less than 40 minutes
(though some of that might have been at the 5p/minute it was initially).
I just am not in the fobile habit!
>
>>Having said that, yours certainly sounds a good deal. Does it allow
>>tethering (use of the 'phone as a hotspot [most at least smartphones can
>>do this] so I could use a laptop with it)?
>
>Apparently it does, within your data allowance, though I have had
>to look this up, having no use for the feature myself.

I find Android very counter-intuitive. Thus using (or trying to) use the
web from a 'phone would drive me nuts; therefore if I _did_ want to use
mobile data, I'd want to use a laptop.
>
>>Does it use a network (there
>>are only four networks really, though many companies selling access to
>>them) that gives you good coverage?
>
>Vodaphone

Right.
>
>>If you should go over your 1 GB (I can't imagine going over 300 minutes,
>>but that too), presumably it goes onto an exorbitant tariff rather than
>>just cutting you off (and I presume you have to pay by DD); do you get
>>any warning?
>
><https://mobile.lebara.com/gb/en/best-sim-only-deals/c/simo-contract>
>
>"You don't have to worry about any out of bundle costs as Lebara
>SIM only plans have been capped at zero out of bundle usage. This
>means you don't get any bill shocks. "
>
>However
><https://mobile.lebara.com/gb/en/rates>
>
>These are Included as part of your plan but if you go over it
>will cost you
>Standard UK mobiles, landlines and voicemail 25p per minute
>Texts to UK mobiles and landlines 19p per text
>Mobile data * 9p/mb
> * Only applicable for customers who joined Lebara and activated
>their SIM before 24th May 2023.
>
>I don't quite understand all of that. On one hand if you use up
>your data, it is blocked, but if you are an older customer, you
>get charged.

I agree, that looks confusing. I wonder if it applies only to the data
(the asterisk - for once both ends of the asterisk are present! - seem
to apply to data only). Those _are_ exorbitant, especially the data; the
average web page these days can be MB.
>
>So far this has not happened, and is somewhat unlikely with my
>typical usage.
>
>Chris

I really don't know what mine would be! Well, 'phone minutes unlikely to
exceed, as I rarely make calls (landline or mobile), and as for texts,
don't think I've sent 20 in my life; but data I really don't know.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Actors are fairly modest...A lot of us have quite a lot to be modest about. -
Simon Greenall (voice of Aleksandr the "Simples!" Meerkat), RT 11-17 Dec 2010