On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:29:09 AM UTC, Vicky wrote:
> On Fri, 26 May 2023 01:26:37 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
> <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <g7PbM.3635404$vBI8....@fx15.iad> at Thu, 25 May 2023
> >21:00:12, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> writes
> >[]
> >>I asked about shifting to 'Anytime' from "Evenings & Weekends", but we
> >>made & make so few calls that it just wasn't worth it.
> >
> >It becomes self-fulfilling, though - you hold back on _making_ calls
> >just because you're aware they cost per minute. Rather like the internet
> When I got my first modem in 1987, to be able to send messages to Capt
> Ex at sea via umbrella, there were games online run by Micronet, on
> Prestel. I got hooked on Shades and there were time charges for
> playing and also phone charges for use. I had very high phone bills
> for several quarters and Capt Ex was very upset :(.
> >didn't really take off on dialup, because one was aware that every
> >minute cost you (and when broadband started to take off, cost per
> >megabyte/gigabyte pricing wasn't uncommon, which had a similar deadening
> >effect).
> >>
> >>If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.
> >>
> >_If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
> >good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.
> We haven't got a deal I use the mobile mostly, notthe land line. .

Umbrella = Telex, perhaps?

Prior to starting The Music Workshop in 1984, I'd discovered how inaccurate telephone ordering could be and how lacking in urgency was the usual response to postal orders (not Postal Orders). But in the big wholesale companies, people would scurry to the telex machine as soon as it began chattering. So in later years, in my own business, once I had discovered that I could use telex on the Prestel system, I started placing my purchase orders that way and got prompt and accurate deliveries as a result. Hurrah! I'm told that I was the first (and possibly only retail music business to use that form of communication. A bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut but that nut certainly got cracked.

Then Telex fell out of fashion...
....But then I discovered I could send fax messages from my PC!

Nick

On 27-May-23 19:13, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:29:09 AM UTC, Vicky wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 01:26:37 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
>> <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <g7PbM.3635404$vBI8....@fx15.iad> at Thu, 25 May 2023
>>> 21:00:12, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> writes
>>> []
>>>> I asked about shifting to 'Anytime' from "Evenings & Weekends", but we
>>>> made & make so few calls that it just wasn't worth it.
>>>
>>> It becomes self-fulfilling, though - you hold back on _making_ calls
>>> just because you're aware they cost per minute. Rather like the internet
>> When I got my first modem in 1987, to be able to send messages to Capt
>> Ex at sea via umbrella, there were games online run by Micronet, on
>> Prestel. I got hooked on Shades and there were time charges for
>> playing and also phone charges for use. I had very high phone bills
>> for several quarters and Capt Ex was very upset :(.
>>> didn't really take off on dialup, because one was aware that every
>>> minute cost you (and when broadband started to take off, cost per
>>> megabyte/gigabyte pricing wasn't uncommon, which had a similar deadening
>>> effect).
>>>>
>>>> If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.
>>>>
>>> _If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
>>> good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.
>> We haven't got a deal I use the mobile mostly, notthe land line. .
>
> Umbrella = Telex, perhaps?
>
> Prior to starting The Music Workshop in 1984, I'd discovered how inaccurate telephone ordering could be and how lacking in urgency was the usual response to postal orders (not Postal Orders). But in the big wholesale companies, people would scurry to the telex machine as soon as it began chattering. So in later years, in my own business, once I had discovered that I could use telex on the Prestel system, I started placing my purchase orders that way and got prompt and accurate deliveries as a result. Hurrah! I'm told that I was the first (and possibly only retail music business to use that form of communication. A bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut but that nut certainly got cracked.
>
> Then Telex fell out of fashion...
> ...But then I discovered I could send fax messages from my PC!

"We"[1] carried on using both fax & telex long after everyone else had
shifted over to email.
Faxes and telexes were recognised as contractually valid documents, but
emails didn't exist when those contracts were written.

[1] The company I then worked for, when dealing with the MOD, which was
our customer.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Sat, 27 May 2023 11:13:25 -0700 (PDT), Nick Odell
<nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:29:09?AM UTC, Vicky wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 01:26:37 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
>> <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>
>> When I got my first modem in 1987, to be able to send messages to Capt
>> Ex at sea via umbrella,
That's it.

In message <ocq47iljd1t9v7mifbe6p7fffduhhjjb0e@4ax.com> at Sat, 27 May
2023 21:36:27, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> writes
>On Sat, 27 May 2023 11:13:25 -0700 (PDT), Nick Odell
><nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:29:09?AM UTC, Vicky wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 01:26:37 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
>>> <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> When I got my first modem in 1987, to be able to send messages to Capt
>>> Ex at sea via umbrella,
>That's it.

I have visions of you handing them to Mary Poppins.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"EARTH is 98% full. Please delete anybody you can." - Fortunes file

On Fri, 26 May 2023 09:00:16 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

>I had PAYG for a long time, but they have really raised the
>prices nowadays, and I have a MSE offer from Lebara which costs
>£3 90 per month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB data, all
>of which are plenty for my needs.

I'm pleased this has come up again as I wanted to find out more about this
cheap sim only deal you have but couldn't find the previous mention of it,
or remember the name.

When I look at their website I cannot find any mention of this £3.90 per
month. Is it only available from MSE?

D#2 bought me a new phone for my birthday which only takes nano sims. My
research suggests this must be an actual nano and not cut down from a
larger version as they are too thick. In any case I wouldn't want to
attempt to cut one from the micro sim I'm currently using. Is there a
choice of size when ordering one?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On 28/05/2023 01:10, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>>> When I got my first modem in 1987, to be able to send messages to Capt
>>>> Ex at sea via umbrella,
>> That's it.
>
> I have visions of you handing them to Mary Poppins.

Nice one! Made I chuckle.
--
Jenny M Benson

Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 May 2023 09:00:16 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> a
> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>> I had PAYG for a long time, but they have really raised the
>> prices nowadays, and I have a MSE offer from Lebara which costs
>> £3 90 per month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB data, all
>> of which are plenty for my needs.
>
> I'm pleased this has come up again as I wanted to find out more about this
> cheap sim only deal you have but couldn't find the previous mention of it,
> or remember the name.
>
> When I look at their website I cannot find any mention of this £3.90 per
> month. Is it only available from MSE?
>
> D#2 bought me a new phone for my birthday which only takes nano sims. My
> research suggests this must be an actual nano and not cut down from a
> larger version as they are too thick. In any case I wouldn't want to
> attempt to cut one from the micro sim I'm currently using. Is there a
> choice of size when ordering one?

Don’t know about others but when we took out phone agreements with VOTR
(our own purchased iPhones so only asking for phone service) they sent us a
card that contained several SIMS of different sizes that we could choose
from.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 25.5.23 12:53, Nick Odell wrote:
> I'm currently still experimenting with a MiFi gadget

Looking ahead to 2025 and the end of POTS which seems slightly more
serious than FM radio being abandoned despite the drawbacks can you
perhaps clarify what is involved please?

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Penny wrote:

>On Fri, 26 May 2023 09:00:16 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> a
>gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>>I had PAYG for a long time, but they have really raised the
>>prices nowadays, and I have a MSE offer from Lebara which costs
>>£3 90 per month for 300 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB data, all
>>of which are plenty for my needs.
>
>I'm pleased this has come up again as I wanted to find out more about this
>cheap sim only deal you have but couldn't find the previous mention of it,
>or remember the name.
>
>When I look at their website I cannot find any mention of this £3.90 per
>month. Is it only available from MSE?

Yes. Checking, it didn't come up straight away, because it is not
an MSE Top Pick, but if you tell it to show all Lebara and Any
Data, it should be visible.

MSE currently pick a Lebara 3GB deal, which works out at 49p for
the first 6 months, and then £4.90 thereafter, which is clearly
cheaper over a 12 month period.

>D#2 bought me a new phone for my birthday which only takes nano sims. My
>research suggests this must be an actual nano and not cut down from a
>larger version as they are too thick. In any case I wouldn't want to
>attempt to cut one from the micro sim I'm currently using. Is there a
>choice of size when ordering one?

You get what seems to be a standard now - the active part is
surrounded by plastic outlines for Standard, Micro and Nano, you
just push out the size you need. I have no knowledge of thickness
issues, but I'm sure they could advise given details of the
phone.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

In message <qis67i5vdngrrg52g97h979g4v334tah8o@4ax.com> at Sun, 28 May
2023 16:38:05, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
[]
>MSE currently pick a Lebara 3GB deal, which works out at 49p for
>the first 6 months, and then £4.90 thereafter, which is clearly
>cheaper over a 12 month period.

Though presumably you're sort of locked in to the 4.90: I don't suppose
they let you have another 49p/4.90 deal.
>
>>D#2 bought me a new phone for my birthday which only takes nano sims. My
>>research suggests this must be an actual nano and not cut down from a
>>larger version as they are too thick. In any case I wouldn't want to
>>attempt to cut one from the micro sim I'm currently using. Is there a
>>choice of size when ordering one?
>
>You get what seems to be a standard now - the active part is
>surrounded by plastic outlines for Standard, Micro and Nano, you
>just push out the size you need. I have no knowledge of thickness

Indeed. In fact I think even "standard" used to come as a break-out from
something credit-card-sized: I think very early fobiles took those. Did
anyone have one such? (My first - an Ericsson before it was part of Sony
- took "standard", AFAICR. 1018a, I think it might have been.)

>issues, but I'm sure they could advise given details of the
>phone.
>
>Chris
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I
have one. -Cato the Elder, statesman, soldier, and writer (234-149 BCE)

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 8:37:11 PM UTC-4, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <g7PbM.3635404$vBI8....@fx15.iad> at Thu, 25 May 2023
> 21:00:12, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> writes
> []
> >If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.
> >
> _If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
> good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.

I haven't had a landline since 2001.

Ben Blaney <benblaney@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 8:37:11 PM UTC-4, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <g7PbM.3635404$vBI8....@fx15.iad> at Thu, 25 May 2023
>> 21:00:12, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> writes
>> []
>>> If either of us _have_ to make calls in 'peak' hours, we just use a mobile.
>>>
>> _If_ you're already paying a monthly fee for one of those, that is a
>> good solution. I know I'm definitely in the minority in not so doing.
>
> I haven't had a landline since 2001.
>

Have you spoken to your Doctor?

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 28-May-23 1:10, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <ocq47iljd1t9v7mifbe6p7fffduhhjjb0e@4ax.com> at Sat, 27 May
> 2023 21:36:27, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> writes
>> On Sat, 27 May 2023 11:13:25 -0700 (PDT), Nick Odell
>> <nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 8:29:09?AM UTC, Vicky wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 01:26:37 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
>>>> <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>> When I got my first modem in 1987, to be able to send messages to Capt
>>>> Ex at sea via umbrella,
>> That's it.
>
> I have visions of you handing them to Mary Poppins.

Who would point out spelling errors and infelicitous phrasing - then
hand it back to you to write out one hundred times.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 12:36:35 PM UTC+1, krw wrote:
> On 25.5.23 12:53, Nick Odell wrote:
> > I'm currently still experimenting with a MiFi gadget
> Looking ahead to 2025 and the end of POTS which seems slightly more
> serious than FM radio being abandoned despite the drawbacks can you
> perhaps clarify what is involved please?
>

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines

Nick

On 29.5.23 15:44, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 12:36:35 PM UTC+1, krw wrote:
>> On 25.5.23 12:53, Nick Odell wrote:
>>> I'm currently still experimenting with a MiFi gadget
>> Looking ahead to 2025 and the end of POTS which seems slightly more
>> serious than FM radio being abandoned despite the drawbacks can you
>> perhaps clarify what is involved please?
>>
>
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines
>
> Nick

Sorry Nick

I meant the more practical aspects of getting VoiP working!

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

In message <fe877bf0-af43-4199-969b-5da71abc56ecn@googlegroups.com> at
Mon, 29 May 2023 07:44:08, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 12:36:35?PM UTC+1, krw wrote:
>> On 25.5.23 12:53, Nick Odell wrote:
>> > I'm currently still experimenting with a MiFi gadget
>> Looking ahead to 2025 and the end of POTS which seems slightly more
>> serious than FM radio being abandoned despite the drawbacks can you
>> perhaps clarify what is involved please?
>>
>
>https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines
>
>Nick

Thanks for the link. Not impressed:

"Analogue networks have been in operation for decades and have reached
the end of their serviceable life. The telecoms industry is finding it
difficult to source the parts required to maintain or repair connections
as suppliers are no longer manufacturing them." I can't imagine many
parts they won't still need, unless we're all getting FTTP (fibre to the
premises) as part of the change. (I was initially going to say "up"grade
there.)

"It is the responsibility of the provider to ensure …" - no, IMO it is
_all_ the responsibility of OfCom. Yes, they can _hand down_ the
responsibility to the providers, but IMO the final responsibility rests
with OfCom - especially where the provider is not _meeting_ the
responsibility: it should be OfCom's _decision_ whether that is the
case.

(People may find
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumer
s/future-of-landline-calls useful too. Or not.)

Of course, this change will probably happen while I'm away, which
doesn't help.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Do you want to be right, or friends?"
- a friend quoted by Vicky Ayech in UMRA, 2018-12-4

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <fe877bf0-af43-4199-969b-5da71abc56ecn@googlegroups.com> at
> Mon, 29 May 2023 07:44:08, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 12:36:35?PM UTC+1, krw wrote:
>>> On 25.5.23 12:53, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>> I'm currently still experimenting with a MiFi gadget
>>> Looking ahead to 2025 and the end of POTS which seems slightly more
>>> serious than FM radio being abandoned despite the drawbacks can you
>>> perhaps clarify what is involved please?
>>>
>>
>> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines
>>
>> Nick
>
> Thanks for the link. Not impressed:
>
> "Analogue networks have been in operation for decades and have reached
> the end of their serviceable life. The telecoms industry is finding it
> difficult to source the parts required to maintain or repair connections
> as suppliers are no longer manufacturing them." I can't imagine many
> parts they won't still need, unless we're all getting FTTP (fibre to the
> premises) as part of the change. (I was initially going to say "up"grade
> there.)
>
> "It is the responsibility of the provider to ensure …" - no, IMO it is
> _all_ the responsibility of OfCom. Yes, they can _hand down_ the
> responsibility to the providers, but IMO the final responsibility rests
> with OfCom - especially where the provider is not _meeting_ the
> responsibility: it should be OfCom's _decision_ whether that is the
> case.
>
> (People may find
> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumer
> s/future-of-landline-calls useful too. Or not.)
>
> Of course, this change will probably happen while I'm away, which
> doesn't help.

As I am long retired and in any case left precision engineering work in the
70’s, I can’t help them out but, at that time I used to make parts for the
switching equipment. I think the sub-assemblies we produced were part of
the uniselector mechanisms - they involved small stainless steel pins that
fitted into metal bars in which we reamed holes in lines to receive the
pins though my memory is a little hazy now…

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

In message <u5483b$1tccj$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 30 May 2023 07:20:11,
Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <fe877bf0-af43-4199-969b-5da71abc56ecn@googlegroups.com> at
>> Mon, 29 May 2023 07:44:08, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
[]
>>> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines
>>>
>>> Nick
>>
>> Thanks for the link. Not impressed:
>>
>> "Analogue networks have been in operation for decades and have reached
>> the end of their serviceable life. The telecoms industry is finding it
>> difficult to source the parts required to maintain or repair connections
>> as suppliers are no longer manufacturing them." I can't imagine many
>> parts they won't still need, unless we're all getting FTTP (fibre to the
>> premises) as part of the change. (I was initially going to say "up"grade
>> there.)
>>
>> "It is the responsibility of the provider to ensure …" - no, IMO it is
>> _all_ the responsibility of OfCom. Yes, they can _hand down_ the
>> responsibility to the providers, but IMO the final responsibility rests
>> with OfCom - especially where the provider is not _meeting_ the
>> responsibility: it should be OfCom's _decision_ whether that is the
>> case.
>>
>> (People may find
>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumer
>> s/future-of-landline-calls useful too. Or not.)
>>
>> Of course, this change will probably happen while I'm away, which
>> doesn't help.
>
>As I am long retired and in any case left precision engineering work in the
>70’s, I can’t help them out but, at that time I used to make parts for the
>switching equipment. I think the sub-assemblies we produced were part of
>the uniselector mechanisms - they involved small stainless steel pins that
>fitted into metal bars in which we reamed holes in lines to receive the
>pins though my memory is a little hazy now…
>
I think that's part of the fallacy they're not doing anything to dispel:
I'm pretty sure the _mechanical_ switching was all replaced ages ago,
and that everything from where our wires reach the exchange (or in some
cases just a cabinet) is electronic now - the signal is digitised, and
effectively the network is digital anyway: the change will just be the
moving of the analogue-to-digital converter into your router (or,
eventually, 'phone) from the exchange, and almost certainly the
cessation of the support of pulse dialling (no more banging the rest in
an emergency).

So "difficult to source the parts required to maintain or repair
connections as suppliers are no longer manufacturing them" is misleading
to say the least.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

After all is said and done, usually more is said.

On 30-May-23 14:57, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <u5483b$1tccj$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 30 May 2023 07:20:11,
> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>> J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <fe877bf0-af43-4199-969b-5da71abc56ecn@googlegroups.com> at
>>> Mon, 29 May 2023 07:44:08, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
> []
>>>> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>
>>> Thanks for the link. Not impressed:
>>>
>>> "Analogue networks have been in operation for decades and have reached
>>> the end of their serviceable life. The telecoms industry is finding it
>>> difficult to source the parts required to maintain or repair connections
>>> as suppliers are no longer manufacturing them." I can't imagine many
>>> parts they won't still need, unless we're all getting FTTP (fibre to the
>>> premises) as part of the change. (I was initially going to say "up"grade
>>> there.)
>>>
>>> "It is the responsibility of the provider to ensure …" - no, IMO it is
>>> _all_ the responsibility of OfCom. Yes, they can _hand down_ the
>>> responsibility to the providers, but IMO the final responsibility rests
>>> with OfCom - especially where the provider is not _meeting_ the
>>> responsibility: it should be OfCom's _decision_ whether that is the
>>> case.
>>>
>>> (People may find
>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumer
>>> s/future-of-landline-calls useful too. Or not.)
>>>
>>> Of course, this change will probably happen while I'm away, which
>>> doesn't help.
>>
>> As I am long retired and in any case left precision engineering work
>> in the
>> 70’s, I can’t help them out but, at that time I used to make parts for
>> the
>> switching equipment. I think the sub-assemblies we produced were part of
>> the uniselector mechanisms - they involved small stainless steel pins
>> that
>> fitted into metal bars in which we reamed holes in lines to receive the
>> pins though my memory is a little hazy now…
>>
> I think that's part of the fallacy they're not doing anything to dispel:
> I'm pretty sure the _mechanical_ switching was all replaced ages ago,
> and that everything from where our wires reach the exchange (or in some
> cases just a cabinet) is electronic now - the signal is digitised, and
> effectively the network is digital anyway: the change will just be the
> moving of the analogue-to-digital converter into your router (or,
> eventually, 'phone) from the exchange, and almost certainly the
> cessation of the support of pulse dialling (no more banging the rest in
> an emergency).
>
> So "difficult to source the parts required to maintain or repair
> connections as suppliers are no longer manufacturing them" is misleading
> to say the least.

"We've told the manufacturers we will stop buying this stuff, so
manufacturers are ceasing manufacture."

Hence. Not our fault Guv!

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 30-May-23 14:57, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <u5483b$1tccj$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 30 May 2023 07:20:11,
>> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>>> J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <fe877bf0-af43-4199-969b-5da71abc56ecn@googlegroups.com> at
>>>> Mon, 29 May 2023 07:44:08, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>> []
>>>>> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the link. Not impressed:
>>>>
>>>> "Analogue networks have been in operation for decades and have reached
>>>> the end of their serviceable life. The telecoms industry is finding it
>>>> difficult to source the parts required to maintain or repair connections
>>>> as suppliers are no longer manufacturing them." I can't imagine many
>>>> parts they won't still need, unless we're all getting FTTP (fibre to the
>>>> premises) as part of the change. (I was initially going to say "up"grade
>>>> there.)
>>>>
>>>> "It is the responsibility of the provider to ensure …" - no, IMO it is
>>>> _all_ the responsibility of OfCom. Yes, they can _hand down_ the
>>>> responsibility to the providers, but IMO the final responsibility rests
>>>> with OfCom - especially where the provider is not _meeting_ the
>>>> responsibility: it should be OfCom's _decision_ whether that is the
>>>> case.
>>>>
>>>> (People may find
>>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumer
>>>> s/future-of-landline-calls useful too. Or not.)
>>>>
>>>> Of course, this change will probably happen while I'm away, which
>>>> doesn't help.
>>>
>>> As I am long retired and in any case left precision engineering work
>>> in the
>>> 70’s, I can’t help them out but, at that time I used to make parts for
>>> the
>>> switching equipment. I think the sub-assemblies we produced were part of
>>> the uniselector mechanisms - they involved small stainless steel pins
>>> that
>>> fitted into metal bars in which we reamed holes in lines to receive the
>>> pins though my memory is a little hazy now…
>>>
>> I think that's part of the fallacy they're not doing anything to dispel:
>> I'm pretty sure the _mechanical_ switching was all replaced ages ago,
>> and that everything from where our wires reach the exchange (or in some
>> cases just a cabinet) is electronic now - the signal is digitised, and
>> effectively the network is digital anyway: the change will just be the
>> moving of the analogue-to-digital converter into your router (or,
>> eventually, 'phone) from the exchange, and almost certainly the
>> cessation of the support of pulse dialling (no more banging the rest in
>> an emergency).
>>
>> So "difficult to source the parts required to maintain or repair
>> connections as suppliers are no longer manufacturing them" is misleading
>> to say the least.
>
> "We've told the manufacturers we will stop buying this stuff, so
> manufacturers are ceasing manufacture."
>
> Hence. Not our fault Guv!
>
>

Salesman to Customer: ‘Oh how many more times …. ? You must be the
seventieth person I have told today, we don’t stock that because there is
no demand for it!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 31/05/2023 08:56, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Salesman to Customer: ‘Oh how many more times …. ? You must be the
> seventieth person I have told today, we don’t stock that because there is
> no demand for it!

In a similar vein, I was in Tesco the other day, with a friend who was
queuing to pay for a few items. We queued for *ages* at the Card Only
till because, like me, my friend doesn't like using the self-service
ones.(1) There were similar long queues at all (the few) tills at which
there was a beepeuse, despite the fact that there were vacant
self-service ones. If that doesn't make it obvious that customers
*don't want* self-service tills, what does? But my friend said she
recently told a Tesco person that she didn't like them and was told
"well you'd better get used to them because they are doing away with the
others altogether."

(1) You know, the ones where you wait for ages for an Assistant to come
and make it work or confirm that you can legally buy alcohol.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 31/05/2023 08:56, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Salesman to Customer: ‘Oh how many more times …. ? You must be the
>> seventieth person I have told today, we don’t stock that because there is
>> no demand for it!
>
> In a similar vein, I was in Tesco the other day, with a friend who was
> queuing to pay for a few items. We queued for *ages* at the Card Only
> till because, like me, my friend doesn't like using the self-service
> ones.(1) There were similar long queues at all (the few) tills at which
> there was a beepeuse, despite the fact that there were vacant
> self-service ones. If that doesn't make it obvious that customers
> *don't want* self-service tills, what does? But my friend said she
> recently told a Tesco person that she didn't like them and was told
> "well you'd better get used to them because they are doing away with the
> others altogether."
>
> (1) You know, the ones where you wait for ages for an Assistant to come
> and make it work or confirm that you can legally buy alcohol.
>

I had another go at haggling with VOTR this morning; some success this time
round. We have been paying £61.19p. monthly and tried to remove the TV and
recorder element - but if we did this, the charge would be higher (about
£79 I think it was) as the TV element puts the contract into a discount
scheme that does not apply if removed from the package! As I wanted a
reduced bill, the best route was to keep the TV package with an increase to
‘Maxit’ which has about a quadrillion channels that we will never use or
want; the previous package they wanted me to renew would have been £79 pm
and having lots more TV I won’t use plus the landline and broadband (they
tell me that our current 130 megabits bandwidth is about to double as O2
are joining forces) means I can have the package for £65 pm. Then we start
the haggling agin in 18 months…

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:13:33 +0100, Jenny M Benson
<NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On 31/05/2023 08:56, Mike McMillan wrote:
>> Salesman to Customer: ‘Oh how many more times …. ? You must be the
>> seventieth person I have told today, we don’t stock that because there is
>> no demand for it!
>
>In a similar vein, I was in Tesco the other day, with a friend who was
>queuing to pay for a few items. We queued for *ages* at the Card Only
>till because, like me, my friend doesn't like using the self-service
>ones.(1) There were similar long queues at all (the few) tills at which
>there was a beepeuse, despite the fact that there were vacant
>self-service ones. If that doesn't make it obvious that customers
>*don't want* self-service tills, what does? But my friend said she
>recently told a Tesco person that she didn't like them and was told
>"well you'd better get used to them because they are doing away with the
>others altogether."
>
>(1) You know, the ones where you wait for ages for an Assistant to come
>and make it work or confirm that you can legally buy alcohol.

I prefer someone else to push the items though and ring it up. I use
the self service if just a few things (which is mostly is) and queues
for served checkouts but I find the DIY ones often need an assistant.

In message <heee7il6hbh2t00khks0n18iuqn9vrcbvq@4ax.com> at Wed, 31 May
2023 13:14:40, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> writes
>On Wed, 31 May 2023 11:13:33 +0100, Jenny M Benson
><NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 31/05/2023 08:56, Mike McMillan wrote:
>>> Salesman to Customer: ‘Oh how many more times …. ? You must be the
>>> seventieth person I have told today, we don’t stock that because there is
>>> no demand for it!
>>
>>In a similar vein, I was in Tesco the other day, with a friend who was
>>queuing to pay for a few items. We queued for *ages* at the Card Only
>>till because, like me, my friend doesn't like using the self-service
>>ones.(1) There were similar long queues at all (the few) tills at which
>>there was a beepeuse, despite the fact that there were vacant
>>self-service ones. If that doesn't make it obvious that customers
>>*don't want* self-service tills, what does? But my friend said she
>>recently told a Tesco person that she didn't like them and was told
>>"well you'd better get used to them because they are doing away with the
>>others altogether."

I have once or twice, when I've finished my shop and seen there are long
queues for both beepeuse and self-scan-at-checkout, gone back to the
entrance and got a scan-as-you-shop gun and scanned all my shopping;
obviously that must have been somewhere that had a separate out for
those using that method. (Which had little or no queue.)
>>
>>(1) You know, the ones where you wait for ages for an Assistant to come
>>and make it work or confirm that you can legally buy alcohol.

For me, it's usually my box; I shop with a folding crate. I don't
usually bother self-scan in Lidl and others where the space for your bag
is too small for my crate, but even where there is a large space to put
your bags on, I need the assistant to wave because of the weight of the
crate.
>
>I prefer someone else to push the items though and ring it up. I use
>the self service if just a few things (which is mostly is) and queues
>for served checkouts but I find the DIY ones often need an assistant.
>
They've improved a lot of late, in terms of things not scanning
properly; I can't remember the last time I bought alcohol, so don't have
that problem. I note a lot of them video you, mind.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is one of the reasons being British is good. It's not a subset of
Britain - it's almost as if Britain is a subset of Radio 4. - Stephen Fry, in
Radio Times, 7-13 June, 2003.

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>I have once or twice, when I've finished my shop and seen there are long
>queues for both beepeuse and self-scan-at-checkout, gone back to the
>entrance and got a scan-as-you-shop gun and scanned all my shopping;
>obviously that must have been somewhere that had a separate out for
>those using that method. (Which had little or no queue.)

Following the advice of BOFE, who started using the Sainsbury's
app during lockdown, to minimise queue contact, I now do the
self-scan with my mobile.

It was initially a bit flaky, but it seems to work pretty well
now, and very quickly recognises the barcode. At times I feel
like I need another hand, but you then just go straight to a
self-checkout, scan a barcode on the screen, pay, and away you
go.

There are occasional sample checks of your purchases, and booze
is a problem (you know what I mean), but there are enough
"Smartshop" personalised price reductions to make significant
savings.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.