On 19/11/2023 13:33, Tweed wrote:
> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/11/2023 08:55, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> When copper disappears, what are those on POTS told about the fibre
>>> "upgrade"?
>>
>> Analogue phone service will normally end before FTTP is forced on
>> people. They will still have copper, but it will only carry broadband.
>>
>
> It may not be that simple. Round here there’s an area without FTTP. Folk
> can’t get a new FTTC connection because the cabinets are full. Basically
> the existing infrastructure isn’t going to cope with a mass migration of
> POTS lines to digital unless some investment happens.
>
I am sure OR will moan to OffalCcom and more taxpayer money will be
thrown at the problem. Eventually solving it.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 19/11/2023 13:33, Tweed wrote:
> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/11/2023 08:55, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> When copper disappears, what are those on POTS told about the fibre
>>> "upgrade"?
>>
>> Analogue phone service will normally end before FTTP is forced on
>> people. They will still have copper, but it will only carry broadband.
>>
>
> It may not be that simple. Round here there’s an area without FTTP. Folk
> can’t get a new FTTC connection because the cabinets are full. Basically
> the existing infrastructure isn’t going to cope with a mass migration of
> POTS lines to digital unless some investment happens.
>

There is mass investment. £15 Billion of investment.

https://www.openreach.com/news-and-opinion/2023/10-million-build-milestone

Here, Altrincham FTTP is being rolled out by OpenReach and Brsk. One
can't move for OpenReach and Brsk vans.

Yes there are areas without, but they are moving as fast as is possible.

Dave

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
> > On 19/11/2023 08:55, Jeff Layman wrote:
> >> When copper disappears, what are those on POTS told about the fibre
> >> "upgrade"?
> >
> > Analogue phone service will normally end before FTTP is forced on
> > people. They will still have copper, but it will only carry broadband.
> >
>
> It may not be that simple. Round here there’s an area without FTTP. Folk
> can’t get a new FTTC connection because the cabinets are full. Basically
> the existing infrastructure isn’t going to cope with a mass migration of
> POTS lines to digital unless some investment happens.

I would have expected some quick-fix proactive FTTP installation in that
case. eg install FTTP for those customers who are poled (and so the install
is easy), 'encourage' them to move service to FTTP. That frees up space in
the cabinets for customers whose copper is buried and would be more awkward
to quickly replace.

The cabinets don't touch POTS phones, they either go back to the exchange or
are replaced by VOIP. So cabinet space shouldn't make a difference for
that.

Theo

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/11/2023 13:33, Tweed wrote:
>> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 19/11/2023 08:55, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>> When copper disappears, what are those on POTS told about the fibre
>>>> "upgrade"?
>>>
>>> Analogue phone service will normally end before FTTP is forced on
>>> people. They will still have copper, but it will only carry broadband.
>>>
>>
>> It may not be that simple. Round here there’s an area without FTTP. Folk
>> can’t get a new FTTC connection because the cabinets are full. Basically
>> the existing infrastructure isn’t going to cope with a mass migration of
>> POTS lines to digital unless some investment happens.
>>
>
>
>
> There is mass investment. £15 Billion of investment.
>
> https://www.openreach.com/news-and-opinion/2023/10-million-build-milestone
>
> Here, Altrincham FTTP is being rolled out by OpenReach and Brsk. One
> can't move for OpenReach and Brsk vans.
>
> Yes there are areas without, but they are moving as fast as is possible.
>
> Dave
>

What I failed to make clear is in this area they probably can’t dump
analogue POTS service until they get around to providing FTTP.

On 19/11/2023 17:17, Tweed wrote:
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/11/2023 13:33, Tweed wrote:
>>> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 19/11/2023 08:55, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>> When copper disappears, what are those on POTS told about the fibre
>>>>> "upgrade"?
>>>>
>>>> Analogue phone service will normally end before FTTP is forced on
>>>> people. They will still have copper, but it will only carry broadband.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It may not be that simple. Round here there’s an area without FTTP. Folk
>>> can’t get a new FTTC connection because the cabinets are full. Basically
>>> the existing infrastructure isn’t going to cope with a mass migration of
>>> POTS lines to digital unless some investment happens.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There is mass investment. £15 Billion of investment.
>>
>> https://www.openreach.com/news-and-opinion/2023/10-million-build-milestone
>>
>> Here, Altrincham FTTP is being rolled out by OpenReach and Brsk. One
>> can't move for OpenReach and Brsk vans.
>>
>> Yes there are areas without, but they are moving as fast as is possible.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
> What I failed to make clear is in this area they probably can’t dump
> analogue POTS service until they get around to providing FTTP.
>

I very much doubt that - although it is likely. More likely to put up a
second cabinet

--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 19/11/2023 17:17, Tweed wrote:
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/11/2023 13:33, Tweed wrote:
>>> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 19/11/2023 08:55, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>> When copper disappears, what are those on POTS told about the fibre
>>>>> "upgrade"?
>>>>
>>>> Analogue phone service will normally end before FTTP is forced on
>>>> people. They will still have copper, but it will only carry broadband.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It may not be that simple. Round here there’s an area without FTTP. Folk
>>> can’t get a new FTTC connection because the cabinets are full. Basically
>>> the existing infrastructure isn’t going to cope with a mass migration of
>>> POTS lines to digital unless some investment happens.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There is mass investment. £15 Billion of investment.
>>
>> https://www.openreach.com/news-and-opinion/2023/10-million-build-milestone
>>
>> Here, Altrincham FTTP is being rolled out by OpenReach and Brsk. One
>> can't move for OpenReach and Brsk vans.
>>
>> Yes there are areas without, but they are moving as fast as is possible.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
> What I failed to make clear is in this area they probably can’t dump
> analogue POTS service until they get around to providing FTTP.
>

I am sure that is the case in many places, but whilst fibre is expensive
the technology that BT and most of the other FTTP providers are
deploying is totally passive except at the end points. Not sure what
level of splitting they are using, 1 to 16 or 1 to 32 but in either case
you need one fibre back to the exchange rather than a bundle of 16 or 32
twisted pairs. I understand the maximum length of GPON is around 20k so
longer than twisted pair....

.... a lot simpler than it would seem

Dave

On 19/11/2023 19:41, David Wade wrote:
> On 19/11/2023 17:17, Tweed wrote:
>> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 19/11/2023 13:33, Tweed wrote:
>>>> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/11/2023 08:55, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>>> When copper disappears, what are those on POTS told about the fibre
>>>>>> "upgrade"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Analogue phone service will normally end before FTTP is forced on
>>>>> people.  They will still have copper, but it will only carry
>>>>> broadband.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It may not be that simple. Round here there’s an area without FTTP.
>>>> Folk
>>>> can’t get a new FTTC connection because the cabinets are full.
>>>> Basically
>>>> the existing infrastructure isn’t going to cope with a mass
>>>> migration of
>>>> POTS lines to digital unless some investment happens.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is mass investment. £15 Billion of investment.
>>>
>>> https://www.openreach.com/news-and-opinion/2023/10-million-build-milestone
>>>
>>> Here, Altrincham FTTP is being rolled out by OpenReach and Brsk. One
>>> can't move for OpenReach and Brsk vans.
>>>
>>> Yes there are areas without, but they are moving as fast as is possible.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>
>> What I failed to make clear is in this area they probably can’t dump
>> analogue POTS service until they get around to providing FTTP.
>>
>
> I am sure that is the case in many places, but whilst fibre is expensive

Fibre is not expensive. Its dirt cheap.

Installing it is what eats up the man hours

> the technology that BT and most of the other FTTP providers are
> deploying is totally passive except at the end points. Not sure what
> level of splitting they are using, 1 to 16 or 1 to 32 but in either case
> you need one fibre back to the exchange rather than a bundle of 16 or 32
> twisted pairs. I understand the maximum length of GPON is around 20k so
> longer than twisted pair....
>
> ... a lot simpler than it would seem
>
> Dave

Yes. The fibre network is simple and robust and reliable and fast.
It just takes time and man hours to create it.

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"