krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
> On 30.6.23 10:46, Jenny M Benson wrote:
>> On 30/06/2023 10:14, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>>>
>>> I guess the railways made a big difference to that possibility. I know
>>> (there have been prog.s about it, usually as part of some series such
>>> as Michael's or the ones about the London Underground) there was a
>>> railway line from somewhere fairly central in London whose main if not
>>> sole purpose was to convey such to one of the new cemeteries that had
>>> opened up in the suburbs (to the north I think it was).
>>
>> That was the Necropolis Line.
>
> South from Waterloo to near Brookwood. The little branch at Brookwood
> was dedicated to the service and it had a stand alone station at Waterloo.
>

Wikipedia has reams about it, it was close to the end of its usefulness in
WW2 when a bomb destroyed some rolling stock, etc. It was quietly not
revived post war - and the most famous building doesn’t have a blue plaque
yet.

Mrs McT

On Sat, 01 Jul 2023 09:13:44 +0100, John Armstrong <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

>On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:06:53 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Also navies and sea-bourne traders of course.
>>I imagine Alexander Selkirk left home in Largo, Fife, because he had
>>several older brothers (one of which was my 8th GG, who was a shoemaker,
>>like their father).
>
>How interesting. I have often seen the statue of your ancestor in
>Lower Largo. I was born in the next village, Lundin Links. The East
>Neuk of Fife is a lovely spot, with a string of charming villages
>along the coast. Have you ever visited?
>
>(Lots of statue pics online!)

I've never been there but have seen many photos of the statue of 'Robinson
Crusoe' - surely based upon Defoe's character rather than a likeness of 8G
Uncle Alexander. It seems unlikely that his own account of his travels was
illustrated.

My paternal grandmother's middle name was Selkirk. She was sent a copy of a
Selkirk family tree by an American cousin (who had paid someone to do it).
I copied out the parts which related to my own family in my teens. I may
have a photocopy of the original somewhere (I acquired a lot of family
records when clearing my father's house).
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

In message <5oov9ilc3n57t4fcqik47n8rkvmsal9keg@4ax.com> at Sat, 1 Jul
2023 10:49:59, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
[]
>My paternal grandmother's middle name was Selkirk. She was sent a copy of a

(No Selki* in my data.)

>Selkirk family tree by an American cousin (who had paid someone to do it).
>I copied out the parts which related to my own family in my teens. I may
>have a photocopy of the original somewhere (I acquired a lot of family
>records when clearing my father's house).

One does acquire such. (I have lots - documents, but also vast numbers
of photographs; mainly from my grandmother.) Sad to think it'll probably
all be scrapped when _we_ go. (I've specified in my draft will three
relatives who _might_ take, but have had to acknowledge that much will
be dumped.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, VO5 (I came, I saw, I washed my hair) - Mik from S+AS Limited
(mik@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998

On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 11:41:47 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

>In message <5oov9ilc3n57t4fcqik47n8rkvmsal9keg@4ax.com> at Sat, 1 Jul
>2023 10:49:59, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>[]
>>My paternal grandmother's middle name was Selkirk. She was sent a copy of a
>
>(No Selki* in my data.)

Um, not sure what you mean (or if the * just indicates any word starting
with Selki..). The records I've found, show the 17th and early 18thC
spelling to be Selcraig.

Another complication is the wives hanging on to their maiden names,
especially with the Selkirks and related Storrars - several cousin
marriages (not usually 1st cousins) within and between the two families.
Reusing forenames between (and within) generations doesn't help either. At
least one of the probate records seems to have the name for one but the
dates for another so I got a bit lost with Maggie Storrar Selkirk, Maggie
Selkirk Storrar and Maggie Storrar Selkirk who are my 1-3 great
grandmothers.

>>Selkirk family tree by an American cousin (who had paid someone to do it).
>>I copied out the parts which related to my own family in my teens. I may
>>have a photocopy of the original somewhere (I acquired a lot of family
>>records when clearing my father's house).
>
>One does acquire such. (I have lots - documents, but also vast numbers
>of photographs; mainly from my grandmother.) Sad to think it'll probably
>all be scrapped when _we_ go. (I've specified in my draft will three
>relatives who _might_ take, but have had to acknowledge that much will
>be dumped.)

My father had notes about the family photos and records from both his
parents and one of his Aunts, as well as information he had put together
himself and some half remembered stories. Mostly he hadn't shared any of it
with me, but may have passed some on to one or more of his 12
grandchildren.

I've rather given up on the family tree. I've used both Ancestry and Find
My Past, which have changed their policies over the years about allowing
you to see documents you have seen before, which is really annoying. I
should consolidate them but there is so much else to do, like digitising
all those photos...

--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

In message <m131ai9kmk995i7faifo1tu0ace96dfibh@4ax.com> at Sat, 1 Jul
2023 22:25:29, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 11:41:47 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
>gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>>In message <5oov9ilc3n57t4fcqik47n8rkvmsal9keg@4ax.com> at Sat, 1 Jul
>>2023 10:49:59, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>>[]
>>>My paternal grandmother's middle name was Selkirk. She was sent a copy of a
>>
>>(No Selki* in my data.)
>
>Um, not sure what you mean (or if the * just indicates any word starting

It did - my software defaults to * if you just enter the first five
letters.

>with Selki..). The records I've found, show the 17th and early 18thC
>spelling to be Selcraig.

Ah. (Checks.) No Selcr in my data either.
>
>Another complication is the wives hanging on to their maiden names,

Ah, I've not encountered that much historically! (More a problem with
_recent_ people - but I don't deal with many of those.)

>especially with the Selkirks and related Storrars - several cousin
>marriages (not usually 1st cousins) within and between the two families.
>Reusing forenames between (and within) generations doesn't help either. At

Oh, that's the bane of genealogists - the same name (or set of two or
three names) being used repetitively down the generations - or/and,
forenames being re-used when a child died, which seems to have been
common (almost the norm) in 18xx and 17xx.

>least one of the probate records seems to have the name for one but the
>dates for another so I got a bit lost with Maggie Storrar Selkirk, Maggie
>Selkirk Storrar and Maggie Storrar Selkirk who are my 1-3 great
>grandmothers.

(No Storr in mine either.)
>
>>>Selkirk family tree by an American cousin (who had paid someone to do it).
>>>I copied out the parts which related to my own family in my teens. I may
>>>have a photocopy of the original somewhere (I acquired a lot of family
>>>records when clearing my father's house).
>>
>>One does acquire such. (I have lots - documents, but also vast numbers
>>of photographs; mainly from my grandmother.) Sad to think it'll probably
>>all be scrapped when _we_ go. (I've specified in my draft will three
>>relatives who _might_ take, but have had to acknowledge that much will
>>be dumped.)
>
>My father had notes about the family photos and records from both his
>parents and one of his Aunts, as well as information he had put together

Envy!
[]
>I've rather given up on the family tree. I've used both Ancestry and Find
>My Past, which have changed their policies over the years about allowing
>you to see documents you have seen before, which is really annoying. I

I've always taken a local copy of any document I find useful, wherever I
got it (I suppose that's mostly Ancestry, FindMyPast, and familysearch).
I've never really trusted them to keep stuff, at least unless you keep
paying, and I'm not sure about even that - well, anyway, I keep a local
copy. Which gets backed up when I do (my genealog.y folder is currently
14.2GB, or 9.48GB if I exclude "others" and a video).

>should consolidate them but there is so much else to do, like digitising
>all those photos...
>
(-:
[Did you get the Staffordshire file I emailed?]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"You play the market?" "No, the ukelele. And I sing too"
- Tony Curtis/Marilyn Monroe in SLIH

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 01:20:18 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

>In message <m131ai9kmk995i7faifo1tu0ace96dfibh@4ax.com> at Sat, 1 Jul
>2023 22:25:29, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes

>>especially with the Selkirks and related Storrars - several cousin
>>marriages (not usually 1st cousins) within and between the two families.
>>Reusing forenames between (and within) generations doesn't help either. At
>
>Oh, that's the bane of genealogists - the same name (or set of two or
>three names) being used repetitively down the generations - or/and,
>forenames being re-used when a child died, which seems to have been
>common (almost the norm) in 18xx and 17xx.

The previous four generations of Armstrongs were all called James.
It's my second name. I also came across this re-use of forenames in
my great grandfather's family in the 1870s. "Maggie", oddly enough.
>
>>least one of the probate records seems to have the name for one but the
>>dates for another so I got a bit lost with Maggie Storrar Selkirk, Maggie
>>Selkirk Storrar and Maggie Storrar Selkirk who are my 1-3 great
>>grandmothers.
>
>(No Storr in mine either.)
>>
>>>>Selkirk family tree by an American cousin (who had paid someone to do it).
>>>>I copied out the parts which related to my own family in my teens. I may
>>>>have a photocopy of the original somewhere (I acquired a lot of family
>>>>records when clearing my father's house).
>>>
>>>One does acquire such. (I have lots - documents, but also vast numbers
>>>of photographs; mainly from my grandmother.) Sad to think it'll probably
>>>all be scrapped when _we_ go. (I've specified in my draft will three
>>>relatives who _might_ take, but have had to acknowledge that much will
>>>be dumped.)
>>
>>My father had notes about the family photos and records from both his
>>parents and one of his Aunts, as well as information he had put together

Shortly after my father died, my mother moved house, and I came across
a lot of old photographs. They are now digitised, and I have the
originals, but sadly the subjects of some are unknown. Mother
volunteered to help in naming, but was defeated by some of my father's
ancestors.

>
>Envy!
>[]
>>I've rather given up on the family tree. I've used both Ancestry and Find
>>My Past, which have changed their policies over the years about allowing
>>you to see documents you have seen before, which is really annoying. I
>
>I've always taken a local copy of any document I find useful, wherever I
>got it (I suppose that's mostly Ancestry, FindMyPast, and familysearch).
>I've never really trusted them to keep stuff, at least unless you keep
>paying, and I'm not sure about even that - well, anyway, I keep a local
>copy. Which gets backed up when I do (my genealog.y folder is currently
>14.2GB, or 9.48GB if I exclude "others" and a video).
>
>>should consolidate them but there is so much else to do, like digitising
>>all those photos...
>>
>(-:
>[Did you get the Staffordshire file I emailed?]

On 02/07/2023 09:37, John Armstrong wrote:
> The previous four generations of Armstrongs were all called James.
> It's my second name. I also came across this re-use of forenames in
> my great grandfather's family in the 1870s. "Maggie", oddly enough.

I can trace a direct line (from my 5xGGF to my father's cousin) from
Arthur to John to John Arthur to John to Arthur John to Arthur to John,
with a few spare Arthurs and Johns on the way.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 01:20:18 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

>[Did you get the Staffordshire file I emailed?]

Yes, thanks John. I realised after posting I should have acknowledged it
here yesterday. I had a quick skim through it and did spot a Leadbetter (or
similar - so many spellings, there must have been a lot of lead to beat).

My computer is not behaving well (nor is my brain) - I think it needs more
RAM. I've found it helps if I only run one program at a time, and even with
the help of two tablets, I can't always get everything in view. Can't
decide whether to add RAM or give up and buy a new machine which
presumably will be 64 bit (whatever that means) and be better able to cope
with all those bells and whistles I doubt I need but which bloat
everything, especially when updating.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 10:46:09 +0100, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk>
a gribouillé dans la poussière...

>On 02/07/2023 09:37, John Armstrong wrote:
>> The previous four generations of Armstrongs were all called James.
>> It's my second name. I also came across this re-use of forenames in
>> my great grandfather's family in the 1870s. "Maggie", oddly enough.
>
>
>I can trace a direct line (from my 5xGGF to my father's cousin) from
>Arthur to John to John Arthur to John to Arthur John to Arthur to John,
>with a few spare Arthurs and Johns on the way.

The Campbells in my mother's line (which in some old books can trace
themselves back to Adam - fanciful genealogy is not new), have a run of
Hugh Bruce > Bruce Hugh > Hugh Bruce > etc, from the Hugh Bruce who
moved from Ayrshire to Nottingham onwards. One of them decided to name one
son Bruce and another, Hugh, to add a name from their mother's line too.
Most don't seem to have added multiple middle names as some families did.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On 02/07/2023 11:41, Penny wrote:

<snip>
>
> The Campbells in my mother's line (which in some old books can trace
> themselves back to Adam - fanciful genealogy is not new), have a run of
> Hugh Bruce > Bruce Hugh > Hugh Bruce > etc, from the Hugh Bruce who
> moved from Ayrshire to Nottingham onwards.

Sounds like hubris.

--
Cheers
Clive

On 02/07/2023 11:04, Penny wrote:
> Can't
> decide whether to add RAM or give up and buy a new machine which
> presumably will be 64 bit (whatever that means) and be better able to cope
> with all those bells and whistles I doubt I need but which bloat
> everything, especially when updating.

If you do decide to buy a new machine I can highly recommend the Intel
NUC. It definitely does away with bloat on the desk because it is only
11 cms square and 6 cms deep. It has behaved beautifully since day 1.
Can't remember exactly what I paid but it was *very* reasonable.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

In message <85d2ail57s6noenk6erpk49c609up131o2@4ax.com> at Sun, 2 Jul
2023 09:37:51, John Armstrong <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
[]
>The previous four generations of Armstrongs were all called James.
>It's my second name. I also came across this re-use of forenames in
>my great grandfather's family in the 1870s. "Maggie", oddly enough.
>>
I thought I had some such runs, but when I came to look, I actually
don't: even the line that I thought alternated (the Weightmans) actually
goes Ralph, Ralph, Robert, Ralph, Andrew, James, Andrew, William, Molly.
(Mind you, I'm glad mum was actually christened Molly - rather than it
just being a pet name for Mary, as it often is, especially among folk
with an Irish background, or she'd have been a third Mary in a row.)
[]
>Shortly after my father died, my mother moved house, and I came across
>a lot of old photographs. They are now digitised, and I have the

Excellent! I really should. But there's so much else to the hobby (as
well as other things in life).

>originals, but sadly the subjects of some are unknown. Mother
>volunteered to help in naming, but was defeated by some of my father's
>ancestors.
>
If any UMRAts are still reading this thread who are _not_ that
interested in genealogy: if you have photos (and you do), _please_ -
unless they're in albums _with labels beneath_ - write on the back who
they are, and ideally when and where. Even with ballpoint - OK, not
ideal as it can bump through (though not if you're careful); in theory
felt pen could soak through though I've never seen it do so, and even
pencil lasts a lot longer than you'd think (the first universal census,
the 1841, was done in pencil and is still mostly readable). If this is
too much hard work, and your prints are still in the folders they came
back from the developers in, at least write a slip of paper and put it
in the folder with them saying who (and when and where) - but at least
number the prints. You'll save your descendants a lot of heartache!
[]
(Just being in albums _without_ any annotation isn't _that_ much better
than loose, though one can assume there's some correlation and
sequence.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is one of the reasons being British is good. It's not a subset of
Britain - it's almost as if Britain is a subset of Radio 4. - Stephen Fry, in
Radio Times, 7-13 June, 2003.

In message <cvh2ai18lnrl4hm7k11pv06g8ms1ksfq9m@4ax.com> at Sun, 2 Jul
2023 11:04:57, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 01:20:18 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
>gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>>[Did you get the Staffordshire file I emailed?]
>
>Yes, thanks John. I realised after posting I should have acknowledged it
>here yesterday. I had a quick skim through it and did spot a Leadbetter (or
>similar - so many spellings, there must have been a lot of lead to beat).

No hurry, it was just the mention of lots-in-Stafford that piqued my
curiosity. (Never thought that might be the origin of the name!)
>
>My computer is not behaving well (nor is my brain) - I think it needs more
>RAM. I've found it helps if I only run one program at a time, and even with

My friend Julia has a phenomenal memory; her husband Frank often says
can we have some of it, but she says we'd corrupt it.

>the help of two tablets, I can't always get everything in view. Can't

I'm on metformin, tamsulosin, and atorvastatin.

>decide whether to add RAM or give up and buy a new machine which
>presumably will be 64 bit (whatever that means) and be better able to cope
>with all those bells and whistles I doubt I need but which bloat
>everything, especially when updating.

When I was allowed to get back online, I deliberately bought a 32-bit
machine (obviously second-hand), as I still had the vague hope I'd get
back my old mail/news that needed a 32-bit machine to run the software
that can access it. Knowing later versions probably would creak with the
amount of memory a 32-bit machine can access (4G), and also being
familiar with it, I got a Windows 7 machine. I did get a slightly
_physically_ larger one, so that it came with a keyboard with a numeric
pad that I'd missed having (mainly for entering non-ASCII characters). I
must say, I'm still enjoying using it after several months; it's a lot
more responsive than my old one was, and has the bonus (it wasn't
something I was particularly looking for) of what I think is good sound.
It cost me £80! (Plus half-an-hour's Diesel each way to fetch it: the
sort of little shop that does these is hard to find. [He would have
posted it, but I wanted it quickly - and wanted to chat as well, and he
gave me something off too.] I can share his details if anyone wants.)
It's a make I've never heard of - "stone" - but I'm very happy with it.

I think future bells and whistles not only aren't anything I need, but
would require bloat _for no gain_: the software I have does all I want.
(And I have quite a lot open at once, though not a lot that are actually
taxing the processor - though 14 tabs open in the browser, and those
probably are.) The _only_ thing I can think of that will eventually kill
it - or, rather, render it unusable - is web pages that won't work with
browsers that can run under 7, but I've seen no sign of that yet.
(Actually the machine can take 8G, so I _could_ "up"grade a bit - but 16
or even 64G seems to be the norm these days. [My first PC had 4M! (Not
to mention the BBC Master with 128K, Oric 64K, Tangerine 8K upgraded
from 1K, and old BRENDA with 16 memory locations ...)])

Running an underpowered (by today's standards) machine with an old OS I
_suppose_ means a bit more effort (and practicing "safe hex"), but
honestly I'm not aware of any such effort, in fact learning new would
mean a lot of effort to me. So much of what I do is "muscle memory" that
I don't have to think about it. (And I _have_ used at least Windows 10
and whatever the current Office was: the machine I was issued for parish
council work had those. I'm not aware of noticing anything to which I
thought "I wish I had that on _my_ machine" [and several things that
irritated me, especially Outlook].)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is one of the reasons being British is good. It's not a subset of
Britain - it's almost as if Britain is a subset of Radio 4. - Stephen Fry, in
Radio Times, 7-13 June, 2003.

On 02/07/2023 13:03, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 02/07/2023 11:41, Penny wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> The Campbells in my mother's line (which in some old books can trace
>> themselves back to Adam - fanciful genealogy is not new), have a run of
>> Hugh Bruce > Bruce Hugh > Hugh Bruce > etc, from the Hugh Bruce who
>> moved from Ayrshire to Nottingham onwards.
>
> Sounds like hubris.
>
<Beam>

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:57:04 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

>If any UMRAts are still reading this thread who are _not_ that
>interested in genealogy: if you have photos (and you do), _please_ -
>unless they're in albums _with labels beneath_ - write on the back who
>they are, and ideally when and where. Even with ballpoint - OK, not
>ideal as it can bump through (though not if you're careful); in theory
>felt pen could soak through though I've never seen it do so, and even
>pencil lasts a lot longer than you'd think (the first universal census,
>the 1841, was done in pencil and is still mostly readable). If this is
>too much hard work, and your prints are still in the folders they came
>back from the developers in, at least write a slip of paper and put it
>in the folder with them saying who (and when and where) - but at least
>number the prints. You'll save your descendants a lot of heartache!
>[]
>(Just being in albums _without_ any annotation isn't _that_ much better
>than loose, though one can assume there's some correlation and
>sequence.)

Indeed! When mother was assisting me with old photographs (see
yesterday's post) I asked her to write the names on the back. After
half an hour or so I went to see how she was getting on.

"Mum - in fifty years or so, 'granny' probably won't be an adequate
description!"

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:27:26 +0100, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk>
a gribouillé dans la poussière...

>On 02/07/2023 11:04, Penny wrote:
>> Can't
>> decide whether to add RAM or give up and buy a new machine which
>> presumably will be 64 bit (whatever that means) and be better able to cope
>> with all those bells and whistles I doubt I need but which bloat
>> everything, especially when updating.
>
>If you do decide to buy a new machine I can highly recommend the Intel
>NUC. It definitely does away with bloat on the desk because it is only
>11 cms square and 6 cms deep. It has behaved beautifully since day 1.
>Can't remember exactly what I paid but it was *very* reasonable.

From your description, that's a laptop - not keen on anything that has the
screen attached to the keyboard.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 14:22:48 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...
>In message <cvh2ai18lnrl4hm7k11pv06g8ms1ksfq9m@4ax.com> at Sun, 2 Jul
>2023 11:04:57, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes

>>My computer is not behaving well (nor is my brain) - I think it needs more
>>RAM. I've found it helps if I only run one program at a time, and even with
>
>My friend Julia has a phenomenal memory; her husband Frank often says
>can we have some of it, but she says we'd corrupt it.
>
>>the help of two tablets, I can't always get everything in view. Can't
>
>I'm on metformin, tamsulosin, and atorvastatin.

:)))

>>decide whether to add RAM or give up and buy a new machine which
>>presumably will be 64 bit (whatever that means) and be better able to cope
>>with all those bells and whistles I doubt I need but which bloat
>>everything, especially when updating.
>
>When I was allowed to get back online, I deliberately bought a 32-bit
>machine (obviously second-hand), as I still had the vague hope I'd get
>back my old mail/news that needed a 32-bit machine to run the software
>that can access it.

That's a point, I don't suppose a 64-bit machine would run my ancient Forté
Agent on-a-stick. I could probably use it on my old XP netbook though, but
could I find anyone to fix the non-functional bits of the keyboard...?

>I think future bells and whistles not only aren't anything I need, but
>would require bloat _for no gain_: the software I have does all I want.

This is my main complaint.
Sadly, web designers (and browsers) no longer even consider the user who is
using older kit, on smaller screens.

>(And I have quite a lot open at once, though not a lot that are actually
>taxing the processor - though 14 tabs open in the browser, and those
>probably are.)

That's my main problem, multiple tabs open all the time (hence the use of
the tablets for quick look-ups).

I once saw an 'advisor' in my Bank. She had so many tabs open on her
machine they were square (and she'd probably need to scroll sideways to see
them all - or do they go into a second line?). I suppose on a business
network it's less of a problem but I can't believe she was actually going
to refer to any of them again, she just didn't know how to close them.

--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

In message <8c05aihta8hhdoco86r0v9g82ouhksc0js@4ax.com> at Mon, 3 Jul
2023 09:10:31, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:27:26 +0100, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk>
>a gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>>On 02/07/2023 11:04, Penny wrote:
>>> Can't
>>> decide whether to add RAM or give up and buy a new machine which
>>> presumably will be 64 bit (whatever that means) and be better able to cope
>>> with all those bells and whistles I doubt I need but which bloat
>>> everything, especially when updating.
>>
>>If you do decide to buy a new machine I can highly recommend the Intel
>>NUC. It definitely does away with bloat on the desk because it is only
>>11 cms square and 6 cms deep. It has behaved beautifully since day 1.
>>Can't remember exactly what I paid but it was *very* reasonable.
>
>From your description, that's a laptop - not keen on anything that has the
>screen attached to the keyboard.

No, laptops haven't been 6cms deep since - ever, I think; even my old
Toshiba with the power supply inside (a far better idea, IMO!) wasn't. I
think Jenny was describing one of the micro boxes. (Some people fix them
to the back of a monitor, thus removing any desk occupancy altogether.
Others may opt for an all-in-one, which is the same idea but not
separable - the PC _is_ the monitor [but the keyboard remains
separate].)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If something works, thank an engineer. (Reported seen on a bumper sticker.)

On Mon, 03 Jul 2023 09:37:43 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
wrote:

>>I think future bells and whistles not only aren't anything I need, but
>>would require bloat _for no gain_: the software I have does all I want.
>
>This is my main complaint.
>Sadly, web designers (and browsers) no longer even consider the user who is
>using older kit, on smaller screens.

I think they get young people in as developers and these want to use
all the new, clever stuff they've learned. Recently. They are not
interested in thinking about what the end user wants and can access.

In message <gm05ai51deh1j6qd4u5tgm98c2vo0nhejv@4ax.com> at Mon, 3 Jul
2023 09:37:43, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 14:22:48 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
>gribouillé dans la poussière...
[]
>>When I was allowed to get back online, I deliberately bought a 32-bit
>>machine (obviously second-hand), as I still had the vague hope I'd get
>>back my old mail/news that needed a 32-bit machine to run the software
>>that can access it.
>
>That's a point, I don't suppose a 64-bit machine would run my ancient Forté
>Agent on-a-stick.

It might - do you know anyone who'd let you try on their machine?

> I could probably use it on my old XP netbook though, but
>could I find anyone to fix the non-functional bits of the keyboard...?

If some keys aren't working, you're unlikely to be able to fix just
those; however, you may be able to get a replacement for the whole
keyboard (which isn't that hard to do: the main difficulty is _finding_
where all the relevant screws are). Depends how rare the model is.
(Might be cheaper to buy a scrap one of the same model - but only if the
seller can assure you that the keyboard works, which they probably
can't. If you can find one going for a song, might be worth a punt.)
>
>>I think future bells and whistles not only aren't anything I need, but
>>would require bloat _for no gain_: the software I have does all I want.
>
>This is my main complaint.
>Sadly, web designers (and browsers) no longer even consider the user who is
>using older kit, on smaller screens.

Touch wood, I'm OK on my 15" - and not full-screen on that - so far.
>
>>(And I have quite a lot open at once, though not a lot that are actually
>>taxing the processor - though 14 tabs open in the browser, and those
>>probably are.)
>
>That's my main problem, multiple tabs open all the time (hence the use of
>the tablets for quick look-ups).
>
>I once saw an 'advisor' in my Bank. She had so many tabs open on her
>machine they were square (and she'd probably need to scroll sideways to see
>them all - or do they go into a second line?). I suppose on a business

Depends on the browser - maybe; I think on most they don't. Though I
remember I had an add-on for Firefox that ensured they did (i. e.
maximum of tabs per line - I think it was about five or six, or maybe
determined by the window width - before it started a new line of them).
There's almost certainly such an add-on for at least modern Firefox and
Chrome.

>network it's less of a problem but I can't believe she was actually going
>to refer to any of them again, she just didn't know how to close them.
>
That's one minor snag I've noticed with Thunderbird, when I've been
watching the friend I set up with it - it has a tendency to open tabs
which it's not obvious (it's basically Firefox code, i. e. it's a
browser underneath). [The friend wouldn't I think be up to the concept
of closing tabs.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I don't like that word [atheist]; it implies that there's a god not to believe
in - Eric Idle, quoted in RT 2016/12/10-16

On 03/07/2023 09:10, Penny wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:27:26 +0100, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk>
> a gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>> On 02/07/2023 11:04, Penny wrote:
>>> Can't
>>> decide whether to add RAM or give up and buy a new machine which
>>> presumably will be 64 bit (whatever that means) and be better able to cope
>>> with all those bells and whistles I doubt I need but which bloat
>>> everything, especially when updating.
>>
>> If you do decide to buy a new machine I can highly recommend the Intel
>> NUC. It definitely does away with bloat on the desk because it is only
>> 11 cms square and 6 cms deep. It has behaved beautifully since day 1.
>> Can't remember exactly what I paid but it was *very* reasonable.
>
> From your description, that's a laptop - not keen on anything that has the
> screen attached to the keyboard.

No, it's not a laptop - it's a real desktop PC! I have 2 drives in it,
2 monitors linked, wireless keyboard & mouse.

See https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/details/nuc.html

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

On Mon, 3 Jul 2023 10:22:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

>In message <gm05ai51deh1j6qd4u5tgm98c2vo0nhejv@4ax.com> at Mon, 3 Jul
>2023 09:37:43, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>>On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 14:22:48 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
>>gribouillé dans la poussière...
>[]
>>>When I was allowed to get back online, I deliberately bought a 32-bit
>>>machine (obviously second-hand), as I still had the vague hope I'd get
>>>back my old mail/news that needed a 32-bit machine to run the software
>>>that can access it.
>>
>>That's a point, I don't suppose a 64-bit machine would run my ancient Forté
>>Agent on-a-stick.

Ask that question in: alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent and I'm
sure Ralph Fox will be along with the answer. If it's yes, I'm sure
he'll be able to tell you how to achieve it.
---
Pete.

Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Jul 2023 09:37:43 +0100, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> I think future bells and whistles not only aren't anything I need, but
>>> would require bloat _for no gain_: the software I have does all I want.
>>
>> This is my main complaint.
>> Sadly, web designers (and browsers) no longer even consider the user who is
>> using older kit, on smaller screens.
>
> I think they get young people in as developers and these want to use
> all the new, clever stuff they've learned. Recently. They are not
> interested in thinking about what the end user wants and can access.
>

Or even need!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 03/07/2023 10:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> That's one minor snag I've noticed with Thunderbird, when I've been
> watching the friend I set up with it - it has a tendency to open tabs
> which it's not obvious (it's basically Firefox code, i. e. it's a
> browser underneath). [The friend wouldn't I think be up to the concept
> of closing tabs.]

I have Thunderbird and I'm not aware of it opening tabs which aren't
obvious. If you open an email to read (which opens in a tab) or start to
write one (which gives a separate window), then either will stay open
until you close them. But that's the same with any email programme,
isn't it?

--
Kate B

Penny wrote:

>I once saw an 'advisor' in my Bank. She had so many tabs open on her
>machine they were square (and she'd probably need to scroll sideways to see
>them all - or do they go into a second line?). I suppose on a business
>network it's less of a problem but I can't believe she was actually going
>to refer to any of them again, she just didn't know how to close them.

There is a user very close by who always has literally hundreds
of tabs open, on different browsers, and insists on carrying this
behaviour over onto my login and my browser. :-(

It is not the way I like to work, but not worth falling out
over.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.