On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 00:22:27 -0700 (PDT), Nick Odell
<nickodell@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 4:49:08?AM UTC+1, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <8c9oci1t0klt039k9...@4ax.com> at Thu, 3 Aug
>> 2023 23:21:39, Penny <sp...@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>> >On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 20:57:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6...@255soft.uk>
>> >scrawled in the dust...
>> >
>> >>In message <4e159efd-1eab-4bd5...@googlegroups.com> at
>> >>Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:51:55, Nick Odell <nick...@bigfoot.com> writes
>> >>[]
>> >>>[1]Literally "Holy Places." The town had been built around a full size
>> >>>replica of Lourdes Cathedral and grotto
>> >>
>> >>Why? (I don't mean why the town round it, but why the replica in the
>> >>first place!)
>> >
>> >A pilgrimage from their to the original Lourdes Cathedral could be
>> >problematic (or just a boodly long way).
>> So whatever imbues the original Lourdes with Special Qualities, imbues
>> replicas too?
>> []
>I think Penny has it. Cement is cheap and plentiful and France is a boodly long way.
>
>As they might say on the BBC "Other shrines are available."

For a moment, not having followed this thread really, I thought the
BBC were assuming THEY were one of the shrines.
>
>I think there's little doubt that the people who built Lourdes did so because of their faith and it means what they built it to mean. The people of Ituzaingó, further away and to the north west of Buenos Aires city, maybe not so much. They have built replicas of the leaning tower of Pisa and the Eiffel tower.
>
>Nick
>nickodell49@yahoo.ca

On 04-Aug-23 8:22, Nick Odell wrote:
> I think there's little doubt that the people who built Lourdes did so because of their faith and it means what they built it to mean. The people of Ituzaingó, further away and to the north west of Buenos Aires city, maybe not so much. They have built replicas of the leaning tower of Pisa and the Eiffel tower.

They built a replica of that tower in Pisa?

Straight up?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 04/08/2023 20:22, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 04-Aug-23 8:22, Nick Odell wrote:
>> I think there's little doubt that the people who built Lourdes did so
>> because of their faith and it means what they built it to mean. The
>> people of Ituzaingó, further away and to the north west of Buenos
>> Aires city, maybe not so much. They have built replicas of the leaning
>> tower of Pisa and the Eiffel tower.
>
> They built a replica of that tower in Pisa?
>
> Straight up?
>

Hee hee.

--
Jane
The Amethyst Artist
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes

On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 4:38:27 AM UTC-4, Jane Vernon wrote:
> After a number of years mostly away from umra I am dipping my toe in the
> water to see if I still like to spend time here.

Jane! How wonderful to see you post. I hope you'll stick around umra for a while.

So sorry to hear of your losses. I wish you comfort and peace.

> Did you want to know all this? Most of you, probably not.

Yes! I've thought of you often - and fondly - since last I saw you post here.

On 03/08/2023 23:21, Penny wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 20:57:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
> scrawled in the dust...
>
>> In message <4e159efd-1eab-4bd5-a23a-8f354508abe6n@googlegroups.com> at
>> Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:51:55, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>> []
>>> [1]Literally "Holy Places." The town had been built around a full size
>>> replica of Lourdes Cathedral and grotto
>>
>> Why? (I don't mean why the town round it, but why the replica in the
>> first place!)
>
> A pilgrimage from their to the original Lourdes Cathedral could be
> problematic (or just a boodly long way).
>
> My good friend in Kent was persuaded to take her elder daughter to Lourdes
> in search of a miracle - the child had suffered brain damage and subsequent
> other problems from a dose of flu at the age of two (her brother, in utero
> at the time, also suffered similar problems - he didn't go to Lourdes).
> They didn't find a miracle, but the daughter is now in her late 50s (her
> brother died a few years ago).
>
>>> which in themselves became a place of pilgrimage.
>
Going to Lourdes was probably the most depressing day of my life. It was
not for any religious reason. We were on holiday nearby and it was a
dull drizzly day and it was decided that a day in town would be better
than a day doing more rural activities. The weather didn't help but
everything looked grey and drab and the place was jammed solid with
shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong Kong (?) and bearing
the legend "A souvenir from Lourdes" in assorted languages. The streets
were jammed with hordes of disabled people and their carers who had
probably spent more than they (or their congregations) could afford on
what I am quite sure was a fruitless journey for the vast majority of them.

--
Ric

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:50:49 +0100, Joe Kerr <joe_kerr@cheerful.com> wrote:

>On 03/08/2023 23:21, Penny wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 20:57:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
>> scrawled in the dust...
>>
>>> In message <4e159efd-1eab-4bd5-a23a-8f354508abe6n@googlegroups.com> at
>>> Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:51:55, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>>> []
>>>> [1]Literally "Holy Places." The town had been built around a full size
>>>> replica of Lourdes Cathedral and grotto
>>>
>>> Why? (I don't mean why the town round it, but why the replica in the
>>> first place!)
>>
>> A pilgrimage from their to the original Lourdes Cathedral could be
>> problematic (or just a boodly long way).
>>
>> My good friend in Kent was persuaded to take her elder daughter to Lourdes
>> in search of a miracle - the child had suffered brain damage and subsequent
>> other problems from a dose of flu at the age of two (her brother, in utero
>> at the time, also suffered similar problems - he didn't go to Lourdes).
>> They didn't find a miracle, but the daughter is now in her late 50s (her
>> brother died a few years ago).
>>
>>>> which in themselves became a place of pilgrimage.
>>
>Going to Lourdes was probably the most depressing day of my life. It was
>not for any religious reason. We were on holiday nearby and it was a
>dull drizzly day and it was decided that a day in town would be better
>than a day doing more rural activities. The weather didn't help but
>everything looked grey and drab and the place was jammed solid with
>shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong Kong (?) and bearing
>the legend "A souvenir from Lourdes" in assorted languages. The streets
>were jammed with hordes of disabled people and their carers who had
>probably spent more than they (or their congregations) could afford on
>what I am quite sure was a fruitless journey for the vast majority of them.

One day I went to visit my parents who lived near Bognor at the time and I had a bit of a
sniffle, not a full-blown cold. But by the time I left that evening the sniffle had gone
completely. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has had that experience.

--
Regards, Paul Herber
https://www.paulherber.co.uk/

On 10/08/2023 08:41, Paul Herber wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:50:49 +0100, Joe Kerr <joe_kerr@cheerful.com> wrote:
>
>> On 03/08/2023 23:21, Penny wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 20:57:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
>>> scrawled in the dust...
>>>
>>>> In message <4e159efd-1eab-4bd5-a23a-8f354508abe6n@googlegroups.com> at
>>>> Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:51:55, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>>>> []
>>>>> [1]Literally "Holy Places." The town had been built around a full size
>>>>> replica of Lourdes Cathedral and grotto
>>>>
>>>> Why? (I don't mean why the town round it, but why the replica in the
>>>> first place!)
>>>
>>> A pilgrimage from their to the original Lourdes Cathedral could be
>>> problematic (or just a boodly long way).
>>>
>>> My good friend in Kent was persuaded to take her elder daughter to Lourdes
>>> in search of a miracle - the child had suffered brain damage and subsequent
>>> other problems from a dose of flu at the age of two (her brother, in utero
>>> at the time, also suffered similar problems - he didn't go to Lourdes).
>>> They didn't find a miracle, but the daughter is now in her late 50s (her
>>> brother died a few years ago).
>>>
>>>>> which in themselves became a place of pilgrimage.
>>>
>> Going to Lourdes was probably the most depressing day of my life. It was
>> not for any religious reason. We were on holiday nearby and it was a
>> dull drizzly day and it was decided that a day in town would be better
>> than a day doing more rural activities. The weather didn't help but
>> everything looked grey and drab and the place was jammed solid with
>> shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong Kong (?) and bearing
>> the legend "A souvenir from Lourdes" in assorted languages. The streets
>> were jammed with hordes of disabled people and their carers who had
>> probably spent more than they (or their congregations) could afford on
>> what I am quite sure was a fruitless journey for the vast majority of them.
>
> One day I went to visit my parents who lived near Bognor at the time and I had a bit of a
> sniffle, not a full-blown cold. But by the time I left that evening the sniffle had gone
> completely. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has had that experience.
>

I am sure there are shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong
Kong (?) and bearing the legend "a souvenir from Bognor" there as well.
Never underestimate the healing power of a gift shop.

john

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 09:17:46 +0100, John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 10/08/2023 08:41, Paul Herber wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 01:50:49 +0100, Joe Kerr <joe_kerr@cheerful.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/08/2023 23:21, Penny wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 20:57:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
>>>> scrawled in the dust...
>>>>
>>>>> In message <4e159efd-1eab-4bd5-a23a-8f354508abe6n@googlegroups.com> at
>>>>> Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:51:55, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>>>>> []
>>>>>> [1]Literally "Holy Places." The town had been built around a full size
>>>>>> replica of Lourdes Cathedral and grotto
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? (I don't mean why the town round it, but why the replica in the
>>>>> first place!)
>>>>
>>>> A pilgrimage from their to the original Lourdes Cathedral could be
>>>> problematic (or just a boodly long way).
>>>>
>>>> My good friend in Kent was persuaded to take her elder daughter to Lourdes
>>>> in search of a miracle - the child had suffered brain damage and subsequent
>>>> other problems from a dose of flu at the age of two (her brother, in utero
>>>> at the time, also suffered similar problems - he didn't go to Lourdes).
>>>> They didn't find a miracle, but the daughter is now in her late 50s (her
>>>> brother died a few years ago).
>>>>
>>>>>> which in themselves became a place of pilgrimage.
>>>>
>>> Going to Lourdes was probably the most depressing day of my life. It was
>>> not for any religious reason. We were on holiday nearby and it was a
>>> dull drizzly day and it was decided that a day in town would be better
>>> than a day doing more rural activities. The weather didn't help but
>>> everything looked grey and drab and the place was jammed solid with
>>> shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong Kong (?) and bearing
>>> the legend "A souvenir from Lourdes" in assorted languages. The streets
>>> were jammed with hordes of disabled people and their carers who had
>>> probably spent more than they (or their congregations) could afford on
>>> what I am quite sure was a fruitless journey for the vast majority of them.
>>
>> One day I went to visit my parents who lived near Bognor at the time and I had a bit of a
>> sniffle, not a full-blown cold. But by the time I left that evening the sniffle had gone
>> completely. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has had that experience.
>>
>
>I am sure there are shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong
>Kong (?) and bearing the legend "a souvenir from Bognor" there as well.
>Never underestimate the healing power of a gift shop.
>
>john

Dogs are better than Lourdes. I am supposed to walk daily as have
osteoporosis and the walking, not on a treadmill, stops the bones
deteriorating more and making me break a hip when I fall over. It is
often uncomfortable or a bit painful to walk as I'm arthritic and
different bits hurt different days. Often b the end of a half hour
walk it is easier. But if I meet a dog in the park it's much better
after stroking and fussing them.

On 10.8.23 09:53, Vicky wrote:
> It is
> often uncomfortable or a bit painful to walk as I'm arthritic and
> different bits hurt different days.

This week we have a rather bouncy Lab staying by the name of Ted. On
Tuesday (his first walk) I think he must have pulled and my back jarred
and it has been a huge pain in the back since.

Having just walked him this morning by the end of the walk things are
obviously slightly eased. I have to hope it is getting better.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On 10/08/2023 01:50, Joe Kerr wrote:
> On 03/08/2023 23:21, Penny wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 20:57:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
>> scrawled in the dust...
>>
>>> In message <4e159efd-1eab-4bd5-a23a-8f354508abe6n@googlegroups.com> at
>>> Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:51:55, Nick Odell <nickodell@bigfoot.com> writes
>>> []
>>>> [1]Literally "Holy Places." The town had been built around a full size
>>>> replica of Lourdes Cathedral and grotto
>>>
>>> Why? (I don't mean why the town round it, but why the replica in the
>>> first place!)
>>
>> A pilgrimage from their to the original Lourdes Cathedral could be
>> problematic (or just a boodly long way).
>>
>> My good friend in Kent was persuaded to take her elder daughter to
>> Lourdes
>> in search of a miracle - the child had suffered brain damage and
>> subsequent
>> other problems from a dose of flu at the age of two (her brother, in
>> utero
>> at the time, also suffered similar problems - he didn't go to Lourdes).
>> They didn't find a miracle, but the daughter is now in her late 50s (her
>> brother died a few years ago).
>>
>>>> which in themselves became a place of pilgrimage.
>>
> Going to Lourdes was probably the most depressing day of my life. It was
> not for any religious reason. We were on holiday nearby and it was a
> dull drizzly day and it was decided that a day in town would be better
> than a day doing more rural activities. The weather didn't help but
> everything looked grey and drab and the place was jammed solid with
> shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong Kong (?) and bearing
> the legend "A souvenir from Lourdes" in assorted languages. The streets
> were jammed with hordes of disabled people and their carers who had
> probably spent more than they (or their congregations) could afford on
> what I am quite sure was a fruitless journey for the vast majority of them.
>

Fruitless? It depends entirely on what you wanted or expected to happen.
Most pilgrims don't actually go expecting to be cured. They go to be
there, to experience the grotto and the community spirit*. As for
expenses, there are economies of scale in going in a group and
accompanying pilgrims used to be a very popular thing for Catholics who
couldn't otherwise afford to travel abroad to do. And as for jammed
streets, that happens everywhere now, whether it's a pilgrimage place or
any place unfortunate enough to be pretty, historic, and accessible. But
the point of the pilgrimage is the pilgrimage, not the cure.

*not the shops which everyone knows are mostly ripoff tat. Though as a
child I had a luminous plastic Mary filled with Lourdes water which I
greatly treasured.
--
Kate B

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:44:33 +0100, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

>*not the shops which everyone knows are mostly ripoff tat. Though as a
>child I had a luminous plastic Mary filled with Lourdes water which I
>greatly treasured.

My parents were faintly horrified when I bought a luminous Jesus on the
cross (only the figure was luminous, the cross was made of wood) while on
holiday in Ireland. My love of it had absolutely nothing to do with
religion.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:36:09 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:

>On 10.8.23 09:53, Vicky wrote:
>> It is
>> often uncomfortable or a bit painful to walk as I'm arthritic and
>> different bits hurt different days.
>
>This week we have a rather bouncy Lab staying by the name of Ted. On
>Tuesday (his first walk) I think he must have pulled and my back jarred
>and it has been a huge pain in the back since.
>
>Having just walked him this morning by the end of the walk things are
>obviously slightly eased. I have to hope it is getting better.

Oh dear. I hope it gets better quickly. Both our dogs used to pull on
the lead. Yes I know it is the owner's fault. We did take them to
puppy classes., Ours were middle size, German Shepherd/Podenko and
pointer/beagle, and heavy enough to be a nuisance if they pulled and
Bobby, the pointer/beagle, only had one eye and if he got excited
playing with other dogs he bumped into me a couple of times and even
knocked me over.

In message <b5d9diha4p0thsav4nb5fdv2f54r53km3c@4ax.com> at Thu, 10 Aug
2023 11:02:20, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:44:33 +0100, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>scrawled in the dust...
>
>>*not the shops which everyone knows are mostly ripoff tat. Though as a
>>child I had a luminous plastic Mary filled with Lourdes water which I
>>greatly treasured.
>
>My parents were faintly horrified when I bought a luminous Jesus on the
>cross (only the figure was luminous, the cross was made of wood) while on
>holiday in Ireland. My love of it had absolutely nothing to do with
>religion.

For some reason you remind me of a tale my mother used to tell, from her
association with the Jewish/Yiddish faith (her first husband was);
unfortunately I don't remember much of the story, but I think it
involves a Yiddish craftsman mass-producing crucifixes for a Christian
customer. The phrase was (you've got to imagine a Yiddish accent [more
or less friendly German]):

"Do you want zem mit oder mit-out Jesuses?"
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A. Top-posters.
Q. What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?

On 10.8.23 11:15, Vicky wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:36:09 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 10.8.23 09:53, Vicky wrote:
>>> It is
>>> often uncomfortable or a bit painful to walk as I'm arthritic and
>>> different bits hurt different days.
>>
>> This week we have a rather bouncy Lab staying by the name of Ted. On
>> Tuesday (his first walk) I think he must have pulled and my back jarred
>> and it has been a huge pain in the back since.
>>
>> Having just walked him this morning by the end of the walk things are
>> obviously slightly eased. I have to hope it is getting better.
>
> Oh dear. I hope it gets better quickly. Both our dogs used to pull on
> the lead. Yes I know it is the owner's fault. We did take them to
> puppy classes., Ours were middle size, German Shepherd/Podenko and
> pointer/beagle, and heavy enough to be a nuisance if they pulled and
> Bobby, the pointer/beagle, only had one eye and if he got excited
> playing with other dogs he bumped into me a couple of times and even
> knocked me over.

Ted is our daughter's dog and has calmed down a lot since that first
walk. I think he did not get a walk on Monday and so he was extra keen
on Tuesday. He is now occupying a large portion of the study floor
which does not have other stuff piled on it.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On 10/08/2023 10:44, Kate B wrote:
> On 10/08/2023 01:50, Joe Kerr wrote:

>> Going to Lourdes was probably the most depressing day of my life. It
>> was not for any religious reason. We were on holiday nearby and it was
>> a dull drizzly day and it was decided that a day in town would be
>> better than a day doing more rural activities. The weather didn't help
>> but everything looked grey and drab and the place was jammed solid
>> with shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong Kong (?) and
>> bearing the legend "A souvenir from Lourdes" in assorted languages.
>> The streets were jammed with hordes of disabled people and their
>> carers
[snip]
> And as for jammed
> streets, that happens everywhere now, whether it's a pilgrimage place or
> any place unfortunate enough to be pretty, historic, and accessible.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2023/aug/10/dream-holiday-at-home-how-i-holidayed-in-venice-without-leaving-york

john

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:14:29 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <b5d9diha4p0thsav4nb5fdv2f54r53km3c@4ax.com> at Thu, 10 Aug
>2023 11:02:20, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes
>>On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:44:33 +0100, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>>scrawled in the dust...
>>
>>>*not the shops which everyone knows are mostly ripoff tat. Though as a
>>>child I had a luminous plastic Mary filled with Lourdes water which I
>>>greatly treasured.
>>
>>My parents were faintly horrified when I bought a luminous Jesus on the
>>cross (only the figure was luminous, the cross was made of wood) while on
>>holiday in Ireland. My love of it had absolutely nothing to do with
>>religion.
>
>For some reason you remind me of a tale my mother used to tell, from her
>association with the Jewish/Yiddish faith (her first husband was);
>unfortunately I don't remember much of the story, but I think it
>involves a Yiddish craftsman mass-producing crucifixes for a Christian
>customer. The phrase was (you've got to imagine a Yiddish accent [more
>or less friendly German]):
>
>"Do you want zem mit oder mit-out Jesuses?"

All businesses try to make a prophet.

--
Regards, Paul Herber
https://www.paulherber.co.uk/

On 10/08/2023 11:15, Vicky wrote:
> Oh dear. I hope it gets better quickly. Both our dogs used to pull on
> the lead. Yes I know it is the owner's fault. We did take them to
> puppy classes., Ours were middle size, German Shepherd/Podenko and
> pointer/beagle, and heavy enough to be a nuisance if they pulled and
> Bobby, the pointer/beagle, only had one eye and if he got excited
> playing with other dogs he bumped into me a couple of times and even
> knocked me over.

What amazes me is the number of people with big, strong dogs who walk
them on a harness. What do you put on a horse when you want it to PULL?
- a harness. What do you put on a horse when you want maximum control
over it? - a headcollar or a bridle!

The current Plum does not like a harness and doesn't have the right
shaped head for a harness but she's so small that pulling on her collar
is not a huge problem. The late Feisty wore a headcollar for most of
her nearly-16 years.

Recently my sister was out walking with her Fox Terrier when it was
lunged at by an aggressive Dalmatian (that was not wearing a muzzle)
which it was easily able to do because it was in a harness and the owner
had little control over it.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

On 10/08/2023 12:22, John Ashby wrote:
> On 10/08/2023 10:44, Kate B wrote:
>> On 10/08/2023 01:50, Joe Kerr wrote:
>
>>> Going to Lourdes was probably the most depressing day of my life. It
>>> was not for any religious reason. We were on holiday nearby and it
>>> was a dull drizzly day and it was decided that a day in town would be
>>> better than a day doing more rural activities. The weather didn't
>>> help but everything looked grey and drab and the place was jammed
>>> solid with shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong Kong
>>> (?) and bearing the legend "A souvenir from Lourdes" in assorted
>>> languages. The streets were jammed with hordes of disabled people and
>>> their carers
> [snip]
>> And as for jammed streets, that happens everywhere now, whether it's a
>> pilgrimage place or any place unfortunate enough to be pretty,
>> historic, and accessible.
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2023/aug/10/dream-holiday-at-home-how-i-holidayed-in-venice-without-leaving-york
>
What nonsense.

1. you cannot buy an espresso al banco at Florian's. Table service only.
There are plenty of bars within a 100m or so though that do serve it at
the counter where it will cost you less than a quid and be better than
any espresso you can buy in the UK. It's all to do with the water.

2. Gondolas and private speedboats are only used by the dim or
terminally rich. AFAIK it is not possible to rent a speedboat as you
need a licence for the lagoon. Cheapest way to travel is a day ticket
for the vaporetto and then you can cruise up and down the Grand Canal
all day long with unparalleled views. We recently hired a small boat on
the Ouse just outside Bedford and it was magical, but Venice it ain't.

3. Roman cooking is lovely. So is Venetian but they are different. To
describe cicchetti as nibbles is risible. On nice meal in York is not
the same as several delicious meals over the course of a few days in Venice.

4. APerol Spritz is SO last decade dahling...

On 10/08/2023 13:11, BrritSki wrote:
> On 10/08/2023 12:22, John Ashby wrote:
>> On 10/08/2023 10:44, Kate B wrote:
>>> On 10/08/2023 01:50, Joe Kerr wrote:
>>
>>>> Going to Lourdes was probably the most depressing day of my life. It
>>>> was not for any religious reason. We were on holiday nearby and it
>>>> was a dull drizzly day and it was decided that a day in town would
>>>> be better than a day doing more rural activities. The weather didn't
>>>> help but everything looked grey and drab and the place was jammed
>>>> solid with shops selling tacky plastic souvenirs made in Hong Kong
>>>> (?) and bearing the legend "A souvenir from Lourdes" in assorted
>>>> languages. The streets were jammed with hordes of disabled people
>>>> and their carers
>> [snip]
>>> And as for jammed streets, that happens everywhere now, whether it's
>>> a pilgrimage place or any place unfortunate enough to be pretty,
>>> historic, and accessible.
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2023/aug/10/dream-holiday-at-home-how-i-holidayed-in-venice-without-leaving-york
>>
> What nonsense.
>
> 1. you cannot buy an espresso al banco at Florian's. Table service only.
> There are plenty of bars within a 100m or so though that do serve it at
> the counter where it will cost you less than a quid and be better than
> any espresso you can buy in the UK. It's all to do with the water.
>
> 2. Gondolas and private speedboats are only used by the dim or
> terminally rich. AFAIK it is not possible to rent a speedboat as you
> need a licence for the lagoon. Cheapest way to travel is a day ticket
> for the vaporetto and then you can cruise up and down the Grand Canal
> all day long with unparalleled views. We recently hired a small boat on
> the Ouse just outside Bedford and it was magical, but Venice it ain't.

Also, for a proper gondola experience you can always have a go on a
traghetto across the Grand Canal.

>
> 3. Roman cooking is lovely. So is Venetian but they are different. To
> describe cicchetti as nibbles is risible. On nice meal in York is not
> the same as several delicious meals over the course of a few days in
> Venice.
>
> 4. APerol Spritz is SO last decade dahling...
>
>

--
Kate B

On 10/08/2023 14:20, Kate B wrote:
> On 10/08/2023 13:11, BrritSki wrote:
>>
>> 2. Gondolas and private speedboats are only used by the dim or
>> terminally rich. AFAIK it is not possible to rent a speedboat as you
>> need a licence for the lagoon. Cheapest way to travel is a day ticket
>> for the vaporetto and then you can cruise up and down the Grand Canal
>> all day long with unparalleled views. We recently hired a small boat
>> on the Ouse just outside Bedford and it was magical, but Venice it ain't.
>
> Also, for a proper gondola experience you can always have a go on a
> traghetto across the Grand Canal.
>
Esp. if you stand up like the true Venetians :)

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 12:58:25 +0100, Jenny M Benson
<NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On 10/08/2023 11:15, Vicky wrote:
>> Oh dear. I hope it gets better quickly. Both our dogs used to pull on
>> the lead. Yes I know it is the owner's fault. We did take them to
>> puppy classes., Ours were middle size, German Shepherd/Podenko and
>> pointer/beagle, and heavy enough to be a nuisance if they pulled and
>> Bobby, the pointer/beagle, only had one eye and if he got excited
>> playing with other dogs he bumped into me a couple of times and even
>> knocked me over.
>
>What amazes me is the number of people with big, strong dogs who walk
>them on a harness. What do you put on a horse when you want it to PULL?
>- a harness. What do you put on a horse when you want maximum control
>over it? - a headcollar or a bridle!
>
>The current Plum does not like a harness and doesn't have the right
>shaped head for a harness but she's so small that pulling on her collar
>is not a huge problem. The late Feisty wore a headcollar for most of
>her nearly-16 years.
>
>Recently my sister was out walking with her Fox Terrier when it was
>lunged at by an aggressive Dalmatian (that was not wearing a muzzle)
>which it was easily able to do because it was in a harness and the owner
>had little control over it.

Mostly a sharp jerk of the lead and telling them off was enough. We
let them off the lead in secure parks. Or previously, in Spain, in
the fields. Their recall was pretty good, unless Molly saw food
somewhere :). We had her from 2 days old. She was in a litter of 9,
pushed out intot he cold, so B brought her home and we bottle-fed her
2 hourly. She'd never gone hungry but must have had labrador genes.
She was Shepherd grumpy and suspicious but your best friend if you
were eating. She caught her own, and ate a rabbit a day in Spain.

On 10/08/2023 11:15, Vicky wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:36:09 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 10.8.23 09:53, Vicky wrote:
>>> It is
>>> often uncomfortable or a bit painful to walk as I'm arthritic and
>>> different bits hurt different days.
>>
>> This week we have a rather bouncy Lab staying by the name of Ted. On
>> Tuesday (his first walk) I think he must have pulled and my back jarred
>> and it has been a huge pain in the back since.
>>
>> Having just walked him this morning by the end of the walk things are
>> obviously slightly eased. I have to hope it is getting better.
>
> Oh dear. I hope it gets better quickly. Both our dogs used to pull on
> the lead. Yes I know it is the owner's fault. We did take them to
> puppy classes., Ours were middle size, German Shepherd/Podenko and
> pointer/beagle, and heavy enough to be a nuisance if they pulled and
> Bobby, the pointer/beagle, only had one eye and if he got excited
> playing with other dogs he bumped into me a couple of times and even
> knocked me over.I don't believe it's always the owner's fault. As with cats and human
beings, some dogs are just pratts, and there's not a lot you can do to
change that.
Steve