Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
02/02) and Andy Judge.

--
I seem to be the new UBM - mail me for additions/updates/deletions

In message <20231025070501.193752427675889@umra.birthday.bot> at Wed, 25
Oct 2023 06:05:43, Birthday Monitor <nick@leverton.org> writes
>Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>02/02) and Andy Judge.
>
I always feel "last post" is very appropriate, reminding us of that
mournful tune usually played on a bugle.

That tune - and "taps", which contrary to what I had thought for a long
time is _not_ just the American name for it, but a different (though
very similar_ tune - is interesting: they consist entirely of C, E, and
G (or home, third, fifth, and octaves) - I'm guessing those notes are
easier to get out of a bugle; they're tiring to play on a
harmonica/mouth organ, as they're all blow.

I usually think of Last Post as segued out of "Sunset", as that used to
be BFBS closedown before it went 24h.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I long for the commercialised Christmas of the 1970s. It's got so religious
now, it's lost its true meaning. - Mike [{at}ostic.demon.co.uk], 2003-12-24

On 25-Oct-23 13:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <20231025070501.193752427675889@umra.birthday.bot> at Wed, 25
> Oct 2023 06:05:43, Birthday Monitor <nick@leverton.org> writes
>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>
> I always feel "last post" is very appropriate, reminding us of that
> mournful tune usually played on a bugle.
>
> That tune - and "taps", which contrary to what I had thought for a long
> time is _not_ just the American name for it, but a different (though
> very similar_ tune - is interesting: they consist entirely of C, E, and
> G (or home, third, fifth, and octaves) - I'm guessing those notes are
> easier to get out of a bugle; they're tiring to play on a
> harmonica/mouth organ, as they're all blow.
>
> I usually think of Last Post as segued out of "Sunset", as that used to
> be BFBS closedown before it went 24h.

I shall select a suitable beverage, and raise a glass in memory.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 25/10/2023 13:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <20231025070501.193752427675889@umra.birthday.bot> at Wed, 25
> Oct 2023 06:05:43, Birthday Monitor <nick@leverton.org> writes
>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>
> I always feel "last post" is very appropriate, reminding us of that
> mournful tune usually played on a bugle.
>
> That tune - and "taps", which contrary to what I had thought for a long
> time is _not_ just the American name for it, but a different (though
> very similar_ tune - is interesting: they consist entirely of C, E, and
> G (or home, third, fifth, and octaves) - I'm guessing those notes are
> easier to get out of a bugle; they're tiring to play on a
> harmonica/mouth organ, as they're all blow.
>

Bugles having no valves (unlike a trumpet) they rely on the natural
harmonics to produce the notes (integer multiples of the natural
frequency. In your example C0 would be the fundamental frequency, C1 =
2C0 the octave above the fundamental, G0 = 3C0 a fifth above that but
still not the one we want, C2 = 4C0 is the one you call home, E0 = 5C0
your third, G1 = 6C0 your fifth and C3 = 8C0 your octave.

[Nick, can you check me on the third, I'm having a crisis of confidence]

john

In message <uhbqcn$v3v3$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:30:31,
John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> writes
[]
>> I always feel "last post" is very appropriate, reminding us of that
>>mournful tune usually played on a bugle.
>> That tune - and "taps", which contrary to what I had thought for a
>>long time is _not_ just the American name for it, but a different
>>(though very similar_ tune - is interesting: they consist entirely of
>>C, E, and G (or home, third, fifth, and octaves) - I'm guessing those
>>notes are easier to get out of a bugle; they're tiring to play on a
>>harmonica/mouth organ, as they're all blow.
>>
>
>Bugles having no valves (unlike a trumpet) they rely on the natural
>harmonics to produce the notes (integer multiples of the natural
>frequency. In your example C0 would be the fundamental frequency, C1 =
>2C0 the octave above the fundamental, G0 = 3C0 a fifth above that but
>still not the one we want, C2 = 4C0 is the one you call home, E0 = 5C0
>your third, G1 = 6C0 your fifth and C3 = 8C0 your octave.
>
>[Nick, can you check me on the third, I'm having a crisis of confidence]
>
>john
>
The practical upshot*1 of which is that most bugle tunes are, indeed,
limited to C, E, and G, and octaves thereof, or their equivalent in
whatever key the instrument is manufactured to - right? Such as Last
Post, Taps, Reveille, lunch*2, etcetera.

*1 a phrase I always subconsciously complete as "if you stick one in
your ear ..."
*2 I know it as "come to the cookhouse door, boys", but don't know if
that's its official title or just the first line.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.
It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
-Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 25-Oct-23 13:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <20231025070501.193752427675889@umra.birthday.bot> at Wed, 25
>> Oct 2023 06:05:43, Birthday Monitor <nick@leverton.org> writes
>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>
>> I always feel "last post" is very appropriate, reminding us of that
>> mournful tune usually played on a bugle.
>>
>> That tune - and "taps", which contrary to what I had thought for a long
>> time is _not_ just the American name for it, but a different (though
>> very similar_ tune - is interesting: they consist entirely of C, E, and
>> G (or home, third, fifth, and octaves) - I'm guessing those notes are
>> easier to get out of a bugle; they're tiring to play on a
>> harmonica/mouth organ, as they're all blow.
>>
>> I usually think of Last Post as segued out of "Sunset", as that used to
>> be BFBS closedown before it went 24h.
>
> I shall select a suitable beverage, and raise a glass in memory.
>

Can’t recall Andy Judge. He wasn’t bbq-rat, but I didn’t go to quite all
the Cheltie-meets I think.

Certainly have Chankel on my mind whenever I go on a train.

Mrs McT

On 26/10/2023 09:00, Chris wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 25-Oct-23 13:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> In message <20231025070501.193752427675889@umra.birthday.bot> at Wed, 25
>>> Oct 2023 06:05:43, Birthday Monitor <nick@leverton.org> writes
>>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>>
>>> I always feel "last post" is very appropriate, reminding us of that
>>> mournful tune usually played on a bugle.
>>>
>>> That tune - and "taps", which contrary to what I had thought for a long
>>> time is _not_ just the American name for it, but a different (though
>>> very similar_ tune - is interesting: they consist entirely of C, E, and
>>> G (or home, third, fifth, and octaves) - I'm guessing those notes are
>>> easier to get out of a bugle; they're tiring to play on a
>>> harmonica/mouth organ, as they're all blow.
>>>
>>> I usually think of Last Post as segued out of "Sunset", as that used to
>>> be BFBS closedown before it went 24h.
>>
>> I shall select a suitable beverage, and raise a glass in memory.
>>
>
> Can’t recall Andy Judge. He wasn’t bbq-rat, but I didn’t go to quite all
> the Cheltie-meets I think.
>
> Certainly have Chankel on my mind whenever I go on a train.
>
You're lucky to find one with clean toilets.

On 25/10/2023 21:02, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <uhbqcn$v3v3$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:30:31,
> John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> writes
> []
>>> I always feel "last post" is very appropriate, reminding us of that
>>> mournful tune usually played on a bugle.
>>>  That tune - and "taps", which contrary to what I had thought for a
>>> long  time is _not_ just the American name for it, but a different
>>> (though  very similar_ tune - is interesting: they consist entirely
>>> of C, E, and  G (or home, third, fifth, and octaves) - I'm guessing
>>> those notes are  easier to get out of a bugle; they're tiring to play
>>> on a harmonica/mouth organ, as they're all blow.
>>>
>>
>> Bugles having no valves (unlike a trumpet) they rely on the natural
>> harmonics to produce the notes (integer multiples of the natural
>> frequency. In your example C0 would be the fundamental frequency, C1 =
>> 2C0 the octave above the fundamental, G0 = 3C0 a fifth above that but
>> still not the one we want, C2 = 4C0 is the one you call home, E0 = 5C0
>> your third, G1 = 6C0 your fifth and C3 = 8C0 your octave.
>>
>> [Nick, can you check me on the third, I'm having a crisis of confidence]
>>
>> john
>>
> The practical upshot*1 of which is that most bugle tunes are, indeed,
> limited to C, E, and G, and octaves thereof, or their equivalent in
> whatever key the instrument is manufactured to - right? Such as Last
> Post, Taps, Reveille, lunch*2, etcetera.
>
> *1 a phrase I always subconsciously complete as "if you stick one in
> your ear ..."
> *2 I know it as "come to the cookhouse door, boys", but don't know if
> that's its official title or just the first line.

Is this the place for my Harmonic Series experience? In the old
fruitmarket in Glasgow I once directed the first production of an opera
based on a story of Gabriel Garcia Marques, and the composer didn't
quite know how to finish it to show the state of hopeful chaos that the
story ended with. So we finished with a statement of the harmonic
series: the trombone player played his fundamental D, then once by one
every instrument and singer joined in - the octave, the fifth, the
fourth, the third etc, tuned perfectly (no mean feat - and there's a
musical joke in that statement that Nick will recognise if he ever sees
this) - until the soprano closed the sequence with a top d'''. The
physical effects of this were amazing - the space resonated and every
bone in my body and I dare say the audience's collective bodies too.

The composer was very pleased with himself, though it was actually the
trombonist's idea in the first place...

--
Kate B

In message <kputa0F355vU1@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 26 Oct 2023
11:28:18, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
[]
>Is this the place for my Harmonic Series experience? In the old

(Why not? This is UMRA!)

>fruitmarket in Glasgow I once directed the first production of an opera
>based on a story of Gabriel Garcia Marques, and the composer didn't
>quite know how to finish it to show the state of hopeful chaos that the
>story ended with. So we finished with a statement of the harmonic
>series: the trombone player played his fundamental D, then once by one
>every instrument and singer joined in - the octave, the fifth, the
>fourth, the third etc, tuned perfectly (no mean feat - and there's a
>musical joke in that statement that Nick will recognise if he ever sees
>this) - until the soprano closed the sequence with a top d'''. The
>physical effects of this were amazing - the space resonated and every
>bone in my body and I dare say the audience's collective bodies too.

I can imagine!
>
>The composer was very pleased with himself, though it was actually the
>trombonist's idea in the first place...
>
>
Though the place-sensation wouldn't come through (like listening to
recordings of organs), is there a clip of the event? I'd like to hear
it!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum." Translation: "Garbage in, garbage out."

On 26/10/2023 18:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <kputa0F355vU1@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 26 Oct 2023
> 11:28:18, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
> []
>> Is this the place for my Harmonic Series experience? In the old
>
> (Why not? This is UMRA!)
>
>> fruitmarket in Glasgow I once directed the first production of an
>> opera based on a story of Gabriel Garcia Marques, and the composer
>> didn't quite know how to finish it to show the state of hopeful chaos
>> that the story ended with. So we finished with a statement of the
>> harmonic series: the trombone player played his fundamental D, then
>> once by one every instrument and singer joined in - the octave, the
>> fifth, the fourth, the third etc, tuned perfectly (no mean feat - and
>> there's a musical joke in that statement that Nick will recognise if
>> he ever sees this) - until the soprano closed the sequence with a top
>> d'''. The physical effects of this were amazing - the space resonated
>> and every bone in my body and I dare say the audience's collective
>> bodies too.
>
> I can imagine!
>>
>> The composer was very pleased with himself, though it was actually the
>> trombonist's idea in the first place...
>>
>>
> Though the place-sensation wouldn't come through (like listening to
> recordings of organs), is there a clip of the event? I'd like to hear it!

Sadly not. As with almost all my productions, it was in the pre-digital
age and so really didn't happen... There may have a couple of photos
somewhere and I do still possess some props, but I'll never forget the
memory of that closing sequence.

--
Kate B

In message <kpvo3nF355vU2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 26 Oct 2023
19:05:45, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>On 26/10/2023 18:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <kputa0F355vU1@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 26 Oct 2023
>>11:28:18, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>> []
>>> Is this the place for my Harmonic Series experience? In the old
>> (Why not? This is UMRA!)
>>
>>> fruitmarket in Glasgow I once directed the first production of an
>>>opera based on a story of Gabriel Garcia Marques, and the composer
>>>didn't quite know how to finish it to show the state of hopeful chaos
>>>that the story ended with. So we finished with a statement of the
>>>harmonic series: the trombone player played his fundamental D, then
>>>once by one every instrument and singer joined in - the octave, the
>>>fifth, the fourth, the third etc, tuned perfectly (no mean feat - and
>>>there's a musical joke in that statement that Nick will recognise if
>>>he ever sees this) - until the soprano closed the sequence with a top
>>>d'''. The physical effects of this were amazing - the space resonated
>>>and every bone in my body and I dare say the audience's collective bodies too.
>> I can imagine!
>>>
>>> The composer was very pleased with himself, though it was actually
>>>the trombonist's idea in the first place...
>>>
>>>
>> Though the place-sensation wouldn't come through (like listening to
>>recordings of organs), is there a clip of the event? I'd like to hear
>>
>
>Sadly not. As with almost all my productions, it was in the pre-digital
>age and so really didn't happen... There may have a couple of photos

(-:

>somewhere and I do still possess some props, but I'll never forget the
>memory of that closing sequence.
>
Maybe you could publish the score, and someone might take it up?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You'll need to have this fish in your ear. (First series, fit the first.)

On 26/10/2023 20:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <kpvo3nF355vU2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 26 Oct 2023
> 19:05:45, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>> On 26/10/2023 18:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> In message <kputa0F355vU1@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 26 Oct 2023
>>> 11:28:18, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>>> []
>>>> Is this the place for my Harmonic Series experience? In the old
>>>  (Why not? This is UMRA!)
>>>
>>>> fruitmarket in Glasgow I once directed the first production of an
>>>> opera based on a story of Gabriel Garcia Marques, and the composer
>>>> didn't quite know how to finish it to show the state of hopeful
>>>> chaos that the story ended with. So we finished with a statement of
>>>> the harmonic series: the trombone player played his fundamental D,
>>>> then once by one every instrument and singer joined in - the octave,
>>>> the fifth, the fourth, the third etc, tuned perfectly (no mean feat
>>>> - and there's a musical joke in that statement that Nick will
>>>> recognise if he ever sees this) - until the soprano closed the
>>>> sequence with a top d'''. The physical effects of this were amazing
>>>> - the space resonated and every bone in my body and I dare say the
>>>> audience's collective bodies too.
>>>  I can imagine!
>>>>
>>>> The composer was very pleased with himself, though it was actually
>>>> the  trombonist's idea in the first place...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Though the place-sensation wouldn't come through (like listening to
>>> recordings of organs), is there a clip of the event? I'd like to hear
>>
>> Sadly not. As with almost all my productions, it was in the
>> pre-digital age and so really didn't happen... There may have a couple
>> of photos
>
> (-:
>
>> somewhere and I do still possess some props, but I'll never forget the
>> memory of that closing sequence.
>>
> Maybe you could publish the score, and someone might take it up?

Alas, not only is it not mine to publish (the composer would do that and
he's I think in America and has long put it behind him) but there
wouldn't be much point to it. All it says (if indeed anything actually
got written down) is "Trombonist steps out and plays fundamental D and
the rest of the orchestra and singers play and sing a rising harmonic
series, finishing with the soprano on top d'''"

Heigho, the company that put it on is long dissolved, even the designer
(who had a respectable career afterwards) only mentions it on her
website, no pictures. All written on water...

--
Kate B

Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26/10/2023 20:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <kpvo3nF355vU2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 26 Oct 2023
>> 19:05:45, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>>> On 26/10/2023 18:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>>> In message <kputa0F355vU1@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 26 Oct 2023
>>>> 11:28:18, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>> []
>>>>> Is this the place for my Harmonic Series experience? In the old
>>>>  (Why not? This is UMRA!)
>>>>
>>>>> fruitmarket in Glasgow I once directed the first production of an
>>>>> opera based on a story of Gabriel Garcia Marques, and the composer
>>>>> didn't quite know how to finish it to show the state of hopeful
>>>>> chaos that the story ended with. So we finished with a statement of
>>>>> the harmonic series: the trombone player played his fundamental D,
>>>>> then once by one every instrument and singer joined in - the octave,
>>>>> the fifth, the fourth, the third etc, tuned perfectly (no mean feat
>>>>> - and there's a musical joke in that statement that Nick will
>>>>> recognise if he ever sees this) - until the soprano closed the
>>>>> sequence with a top d'''. The physical effects of this were amazing
>>>>> - the space resonated and every bone in my body and I dare say the
>>>>> audience's collective bodies too.
>>>>  I can imagine!
>>>>>
>>>>> The composer was very pleased with himself, though it was actually
>>>>> the  trombonist's idea in the first place...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Though the place-sensation wouldn't come through (like listening to
>>>> recordings of organs), is there a clip of the event? I'd like to hear
>>>
>>> Sadly not. As with almost all my productions, it was in the
>>> pre-digital age and so really didn't happen... There may have a couple
>>> of photos
>>
>> (-:
>>
>>> somewhere and I do still possess some props, but I'll never forget the
>>> memory of that closing sequence.
>>>
>> Maybe you could publish the score, and someone might take it up?
>
> Alas, not only is it not mine to publish (the composer would do that and
> he's I think in America and has long put it behind him) but there
> wouldn't be much point to it. All it says (if indeed anything actually
> got written down) is "Trombonist steps out and plays fundamental D and
> the rest of the orchestra and singers play and sing a rising harmonic
> series, finishing with the soprano on top d'''"
>
> Heigho, the company that put it on is long dissolved, even the designer
> (who had a respectable career afterwards) only mentions it on her
> website, no pictures. All written on water...
>

‘The Waters of Time’?

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:30:31 +0100, John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 25/10/2023 13:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <20231025070501.193752427675889@umra.birthday.bot> at Wed, 25
>> Oct 2023 06:05:43, Birthday Monitor <nick@leverton.org> writes
>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>
>> I always feel "last post" is very appropriate, reminding us of that
>> mournful tune usually played on a bugle.
>>
>> That tune - and "taps", which contrary to what I had thought for a long
>> time is _not_ just the American name for it, but a different (though
>> very similar_ tune - is interesting: they consist entirely of C, E, and
>> G (or home, third, fifth, and octaves) - I'm guessing those notes are
>> easier to get out of a bugle; they're tiring to play on a
>> harmonica/mouth organ, as they're all blow.
>>
>
>Bugles having no valves (unlike a trumpet) they rely on the natural
>harmonics to produce the notes (integer multiples of the natural
>frequency. In your example C0 would be the fundamental frequency, C1 =
>2C0 the octave above the fundamental, G0 = 3C0 a fifth above that but
>still not the one we want, C2 = 4C0 is the one you call home, E0 = 5C0
>your third, G1 = 6C0 your fifth and C3 = 8C0 your octave.
>
>[Nick, can you check me on the third, I'm having a crisis of confidence]
>
I don't understand what all these calculations have to do with Trevor
Horne and Geoff Downes?

But yes, I agree with your calculations though with an instrument
available to be played in several keys, none of which these days are
the key in which its music is written I think there's a lot to said
for tonic sol-fa.

Nick

On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>

The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.

On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.

I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.

--
CaroleT

carolet <carolet.umrat@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>
>
>
> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>
> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>
> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>

‘Old Oliver is very well, thank you! (Oh! That wasn’t what you were asking
was it?)

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 04/11/2023 12:36, Mike McMillan wrote:
> carolet <carolet.umrat@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>>
>> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
>> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>>
>> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
>> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>>
>
> ‘Old Oliver is very well, thank you!

Oliver Cromwell lay buried and dead,
Hee-haw buried and dead,
There grew an old apple tree over his head,
Hee-haw over his head.

The apples were ripe and ready to fall;
Hee-haw ready to fall;
There came an old woman to gather them all,
Hee-haw gather them all.

Oliver rose and gave her a drop,
Hee-haw gave her a drop,
Which made the old woman go hippety hop,
Hee-haw hippety hop.

The saddle and bridle they lie on the shelf,
Hee-haw lie on the shelf,
If you want any more you can sing it yourself,
Hee-haw sing it yourself.

john

On 04-Nov-23 10:21, carolet wrote:
> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>
>
>
> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>
> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>
> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>
If the topic had never come up before (in TA), what lead them to invoke
it now?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 04/11/2023 18:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 04-Nov-23 10:21, carolet wrote:
>> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>>
>> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
>> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>>
>> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
>> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>>
> If the topic had never come up before (in TA), what lead them to invoke
> it now?
>

The Grundys need to suck up to Oliver to try to avoid eviction.

john

In message <ui5drj$3c7i0$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 4 Nov 2023 12:36:03,
Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>carolet <carolet.umrat@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>>
>> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
>> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>>
>> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
>> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>>
>
>‘Old Oliver is very well, thank you! (Oh! That wasn’t what you were asking
>was it?)
>
That hearkens back a long way: back when telegrams cost by the word,
someone once sent one "how old Cary Grant", which by some error found
its way to the man himself, who replied "old Cary Grant fine; how you?".
Allegedly.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All that glitters has a high refractive index.

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <ui5drj$3c7i0$1@dont-email.me> at Sat, 4 Nov 2023 12:36:03,
> Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>> carolet <carolet.umrat@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>>>
>>> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
>>> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>>>
>>> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
>>> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>>>
>>
>> ‘Old Oliver is very well, thank you! (Oh! That wasn’t what you were asking
>> was it?)
>>
> That hearkens back a long way: back when telegrams cost by the word,
> someone once sent one "how old Cary Grant", which by some error found
> its way to the man himself, who replied "old Cary Grant fine; how you?".
> Allegedly.

That is the (alleged) incident to which I was hearking.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 05-Nov-23 11:31, John Ashby wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 18:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 04-Nov-23 10:21, carolet wrote:
>>> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>>>
>>> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
>>> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>>>
>>> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
>>> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>>>
>> If the topic had never come up before (in TA), what lead them to
>> invoke it now?
>>
>
> The Grundys need to suck up to Oliver to try to avoid eviction.

Are they doing repeats now?
Didn't Oliver buy the 'Grundy' farm (i.e. the farm on which the Grundys
had been tenants since time immoral) when they got turfed out a couple
of decades back?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 05/11/2023 17:40, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 05-Nov-23 11:31, John Ashby wrote:

>>
>> The Grundys need to suck up to Oliver to try to avoid eviction.
>
> Are they doing repeats now?
> Didn't Oliver buy the 'Grundy' farm (i.e. the farm on which the Grundys
> had been tenants since time immoral) when they got turfed out a couple
> of decades back?
>

Yup, on both counts.

Some time after Caroline died, the Grundys suckered Oliver into allowing
them to rent Grange Farm back, at a fairly peppercorn rent, and Oliver
then moved back in to share it with them. IIRC, it was originally meant
to be a short term agreement, which was then extended "to allow Joe to
stay there for his final days".

Oliver now needs to raise 250K, to invest in GG and is considering
selling Grange Farm as the easiest way of raising this. If he decides
to do this the Grundys, both ancient and modern, will need to find new
homes.

The Grundys, inevitably, are talking about this (or even just selling
some Grange Farm land) as if this is an outrageous decision and
something that he has no right to do.

--
Best wishes, Serena
Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street
with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they look sexy.

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 05-Nov-23 11:31, John Ashby wrote:
>> On 04/11/2023 18:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 04-Nov-23 10:21, carolet wrote:
>>>> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>>>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>>>>
>>>> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
>>>> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
>>>> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>>>>
>>> If the topic had never come up before (in TA), what lead them to
>>> invoke it now?
>>>
>>
>> The Grundys need to suck up to Oliver to try to avoid eviction.
>
> Are they doing repeats now?
> Didn't Oliver buy the 'Grundy' farm (i.e. the farm on which the Grundys
> had been tenants since time immoral) when they got turfed out a couple
> of decades back?
>

They were tenants of Jeck at one time I think.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 04/11/2023 18:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 04-Nov-23 10:21, carolet wrote:
>>> On 25/10/2023 07:05, Birthday Monitor wrote:
>>>> Birthday News for today, 25 October: Charles Hankel RIP (last post
>>>> 02/02) and Andy Judge.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 25th October is also Oliver's birthday.
>>>
>>> On the programme on the 24th Eddie mentioned that it was Oliver's
>>> birthday tomorrow, and on the 25th we heard that Will gave him a card.
>>>
>>> I think this is the first time that Oliver's birthday has ever been
>>> mentioned, so we still have no idea how old he is.
>>>
>> If the topic had never come up before (in TA), what lead them to invoke
>> it now?
>>
>
> The Grundys need to suck up to Oliver to try to avoid eviction.
>
> john
>

To be fair, Oliver has been living with them as well.