Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
death bed – just when we thought we were safe

<https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,

aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
--
Best wishes, Serena
You meet saints everywhere. They can be anywhere. They are people
behaving decently in an indecent society. (Kurt Vonnegut)

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
<nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:

>
>Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>
><https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>
>aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>

' As the refurbishment of the hotel span out of his control, he '
really? Span?

I like Ed and Eddie and am currently reading the synopses on the BBC
site, not listening, but fb folk seem to be reporting that they
challenged Oliver quite aggressively. I don't like to think of two
younger, stronger men accosting an elderly man in any way
unpleasantly. Also as he lives with Eddie and Clarrieit would make it
uncomfortable for him, and might lead to their being asked to leave,

Having complained about Ms Higgins' grammar I'm now worried about
their or them in that last sentence.

In message <uid1m8$ucob$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28,
Serena Blanchflower <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> writes
>
>Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>
><https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-
>on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>

(I wish the Grauniad would take a 50p donation - I might give one
sometimes.)

I object to "“He’s playing you, Alan,” hissed the vicar’s more
intelligent wife, Usha." Not to denigrate Usha's intelligence, but Alan
had no choice: if we assume he has the faith his profession implies, he
_has_ to give the benefit of the doubt - even to the extent that I was
surprised at his honesty to Rob (I think he more or less did say "I
don't believe you" at one point) - and regardless of his own faith, I
suspect he's under obligation to, as part of his job (what the bishop
might say/do).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The web is a blank slate; you can't design technology that is 'good'. You can't
design paper that you can only write good things on. There are no good or evil
tools. You can put an engine in an ambulance or a tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee,
Radio Times 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5.

On 07/11/2023 11:50, Vicky wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>
>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>
>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>
>
> ' As the refurbishment of the hotel span out of his control, he'
> really? Span?

Past tense of "to span". Would you prefer "spinned" ?

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 11:46:01 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

>In message <uid1m8$ucob$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28,
>Serena Blanchflower <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> writes
>>
>>Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>>death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>
>><https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-
>>on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>
>(I wish the Grauniad would take a 50p donation - I might give one
>sometimes.)

If you were to save up all the times when you feel you might like to
make a 50p donation, you could make a one-off £5 donation instead.

>
>I object to "“He’s playing you, Alan,” hissed the vicar’s more
>intelligent wife, Usha." Not to denigrate Usha's intelligence, but Alan
>had no choice: if we assume he has the faith his profession implies, he
>_has_ to give the benefit of the doubt - even to the extent that I was
>surprised at his honesty to Rob (I think he more or less did say "I
>don't believe you" at one point) - and regardless of his own faith, I
>suspect he's under obligation to, as part of his job (what the bishop
>might say/do).

Ahem. Alan's been at the vicaring long enough that he really ought to
know that he does have a choice. Just take one example, The Sermon on
the Mount. It's not all about Greeks and Cheesemakers: there's a whole
section (Matt ch7 v15-ish onwards) which warns about people who aren't
all that they seem. It's a tough call to make, I agree. But it is his
call to make.

Nick

On 07/11/2023 11:50, Vicky wrote:
> I like Ed and Eddie and am currently reading the synopses on the BBC
> site, not listening, but fb folk seem to be reporting that they
> challenged Oliver quite aggressively. I don't like to think of two
> younger, stronger men accosting an elderly man in any way
> unpleasantly. Also as he lives with Eddie and Clarrieit would make it
> uncomfortable for him, and might lead to their being asked to leave,

It was classic Grundy outrage and they were both being extremely
entitled and unpleasant to him.

There is an interesting potential legal conundrum over who could evict
whom from Grange Farm. Normally, if the landlord is living in the house
with his tenants, they are classed as lodgers and have precious few
legal rights. When the Grundys first rented Grange Farm from Oliver
though, he wasn't living there and they were, doubtless, tenants.
Oliver then moved in with them, which raises the question of whether he
is their lodger, as well as being their landlord, or have they become
lodgers?

As for the legal situation of Ed and Emma's caravan, heaven alone knows!

If Ed and Eddie upset Oliver enough, this may all become rather relevant...

> Having complained about Ms Higgins' grammar I'm now worried about
> their or them in that last sentence.

I would have opted for "them" but I make no claims to be a grammar expert.

--
Best wishes, Serena
"It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves." - Sir Edmund Hillary

On 07/11/2023 12:39, BrritSki wrote:
> On 07/11/2023 11:50, Vicky wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
>> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>>
>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>>
>>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>>
>>
>> ' As the refurbishment of the hotel span out of his control, he'
>> really?   Span?
>
> Past tense of "to span". Would you prefer "spinned" ?
>
>
I would have preferred "spun" in that context, but each to his/her own!
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 14:23:26 +0000, Serena Blanchflower wrote:

> There is an interesting potential legal conundrum over who could evict
> whom from Grange Farm. Normally, if the landlord is living in the house
> with his tenants, they are classed as lodgers and have precious few
> legal rights. When the Grundys first rented Grange Farm from Oliver
> though, he wasn't living there and they were, doubtless, tenants.
> Oliver then moved in with them, which raises the question of whether he
> is their lodger, as well as being their landlord, or have they become
> lodgers?

Sounds like a case for Mr Justice Cocklecarrot.

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

On 07/11/2023 09:57, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>
> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>
> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>

Is this an online only thing or does it appear in the paper too? The url
implies that it is in today's paper, but I can't see it in there.

--
CaroleT

On 07/11/2023 15:03, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 14:23:26 +0000, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>
>> There is an interesting potential legal conundrum over who could evict
>> whom from Grange Farm. Normally, if the landlord is living in the house
>> with his tenants, they are classed as lodgers and have precious few
>> legal rights. When the Grundys first rented Grange Farm from Oliver
>> though, he wasn't living there and they were, doubtless, tenants.
>> Oliver then moved in with them, which raises the question of whether he
>> is their lodger, as well as being their landlord, or have they become
>> lodgers?
>
> Sounds like a case for Mr Justice Cocklecarrot.
>

Whozat?

If I find myself at a lose end, and feeling bored, it might become a
case for uk.legal.moderated ;)

--
Best wishes, Serena
Q. What do you call just married spiders?
A. Newly-webs.

On 07/11/2023 15:06, carolet wrote:
> On 07/11/2023 09:57, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>
>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>
>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>
> Is this an online only thing or does it appear in the paper too? The url
> implies that it is in today's paper, but I can't see it in there.
>
>

I think it's generally in the paper but I've got the feeling in the past
that, sometimes, things are published on different schedules online vs
hard-copy. I don't know which day it normally appears in print.

--
Best wishes, Serena
The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.

On 07/11/2023 15:03, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 14:23:26 +0000, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>
>> There is an interesting potential legal conundrum over who could evict
>> whom from Grange Farm. Normally, if the landlord is living in the house
>> with his tenants, they are classed as lodgers and have precious few
>> legal rights. When the Grundys first rented Grange Farm from Oliver
>> though, he wasn't living there and they were, doubtless, tenants.
>> Oliver then moved in with them, which raises the question of whether he
>> is their lodger, as well as being their landlord, or have they become
>> lodgers?
>
> Sounds like a case for Mr Justice Cocklecarrot.
>

Where are we going to find red bearded dwarves in Borsetshire?

Can Terry Two-phones supply?

john (Aren't you rather tall for a dwarf?)

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 15:55:08 +0000, Serena Blanchflower wrote:

> On 07/11/2023 15:03, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like a case for Mr Justice Cocklecarrot.
>>
> Whozat?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beachcomber_(pen_name)#Recurrent_characters

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 14:43:59 +0000, Jenny M Benson
<NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On 07/11/2023 12:39, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 07/11/2023 11:50, Vicky wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
>>> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>>>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>>>
>>>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>>>
>>>
>>> ' As the refurbishment of the hotel span out of his control, he'
>>> really?   Span?
>>
>> Past tense of "to span". Would you prefer "spinned" ?
>>
>>
>I would have preferred "spun" in that context, but each to his/her own!

Yes, spun

On 07-Nov-23 14:43, Jenny M Benson wrote:
> On 07/11/2023 12:39, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 07/11/2023 11:50, Vicky wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
>>> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>>>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>>>
>>>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>>>
>>>
>>> ' As the refurbishment of the hotel span out of his control, he'
>>> really?   Span?
>>
>> Past tense of "to span". Would you prefer "spinned" ?
>>
>>
> I would have preferred "spun" in that context, but each to his/her own!

I'm informed that "span" is the older past tense form, but it has been
rather crowded out by the upstart "spun" for both the past participle
and simple past forms.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 07/11/2023 19:42, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 07-Nov-23 14:43, Jenny M Benson wrote:
>> On 07/11/2023 12:39, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 07/11/2023 11:50, Vicky wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
>>>> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>>>>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>>>>
>>>>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ' As the refurbishment of the hotel span out of his control, he'
>>>> really?   Span?
>>>
>>> Past tense of "to span". Would you prefer "spinned" ?
>>>
>>>
>> I would have preferred "spun" in that context, but each to his/her own!
>
> I'm informed that "span" is the older past tense form, but it has been
> rather crowded out by the upstart "spun" for both the past participle
> and simple past forms.
>

I'd have used 'span', not 'spun' which is a participle needing an
auxiliary verb, eg 'had spun out of control'. I was rather happy to see it.

--
Kate B

Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 07/11/2023 19:42, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 07-Nov-23 14:43, Jenny M Benson wrote:
>>> On 07/11/2023 12:39, BrritSki wrote:
>>>> On 07/11/2023 11:50, Vicky wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
>>>>> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>>>>>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ' As the refurbishment of the hotel span out of his control, he'
>>>>> really?   Span?
>>>>
>>>> Past tense of "to span". Would you prefer "spinned" ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I would have preferred "spun" in that context, but each to his/her own!
>>
>> I'm informed that "span" is the older past tense form, but it has been
>> rather crowded out by the upstart "spun" for both the past participle
>> and simple past forms.
>>
>
> I'd have used 'span', not 'spun' which is a participle needing an
> auxiliary verb, eg 'had spun out of control'. I was rather happy to see it.
>

Spin - Span - Spun
Pin - Pinned - Pinned
Win - Won - Won

I’m sure it all makes perfick sense.

On Tue, 07 Nov 2023 19:42:21 +0000, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> On 07-Nov-23 14:43, Jenny M Benson wrote:
>> On 07/11/2023 12:39, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 07/11/2023 11:50, Vicky wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 09:57:28 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
>>>> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>>>>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>>>>
>>>>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ' As the refurbishment of the hotel span out of his control, he'
>>>> really?   Span?
>>>
>>> Past tense of "to span". Would you prefer "spinned" ?
>>>
>>>
>> I would have preferred "spun" in that context, but each to his/her own!
>
> I'm informed that "span" is the older past tense form, but it has been
> rather crowded out by the upstart "spun" for both the past participle
> and simple past forms.

Umrat Archer span round and interjected:

Swan swam over the sea.
Swim, swan, swim.
Swan swam back again.
Well swum swan.

On 07/11/2023 20:15, Wenlock wrote:
> Spin - Span - Spun
> Pin - Pinned - Pinned
> Win - Won - Won
>
> I’m sure it all makes perfick sense.

Listening to Susie Dent's podcast Something Rhymes with Purple I have
just learned that the OED no longer includes ROOVES as the plural of ROOF.

I don't think I've had occasion to refer to more than one roof for a
*very* long time and I'm not sure now which plural I would have chosen.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 10:52:53 +0000, Jenny M Benson
<NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On 07/11/2023 20:15, Wenlock wrote:
>> Spin - Span - Spun
>> Pin - Pinned - Pinned
>> Win - Won - Won
>>
>> I’m sure it all makes perfick sense.
>
>Listening to Susie Dent's podcast Something Rhymes with Purple I have
>just learned that the OED no longer includes ROOVES as the plural of ROOF.
>
>I don't think I've had occasion to refer to more than one roof for a
>*very* long time and I'm not sure now which plural I would have chosen.

I don't like rooves. I'd use roofs. goofs? he goofs off.
oh. hooves...hmmmmmm hoofs..all 4 hoofs...
poofs...pooves..prefer poofs

In message <i7tmkip6g4slscet4d0cq6n4n405ac5nob@4ax.com> at Wed, 8 Nov
2023 11:48:21, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> writes
>On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 10:52:53 +0000, Jenny M Benson
><NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 07/11/2023 20:15, Wenlock wrote:
>>> Spin - Span - Spun
>>> Pin - Pinned - Pinned
>>> Win - Won - Won
>>>
>>> I’m sure it all makes perfick sense.
>>
>>Listening to Susie Dent's podcast Something Rhymes with Purple I have
>>just learned that the OED no longer includes ROOVES as the plural of ROOF.

I doubt it's gone completely - once something gets in, I don't think it
ever escapes! It might have been moved though, possibly to its own entry
(it would be the other side of room, wouldn't it) marked archaic or
obsolete.
>>
>>I don't think I've had occasion to refer to more than one roof for a

"High winds ... trees may be uprooted, roofs blown off ..."

>>*very* long time and I'm not sure now which plural I would have chosen.
>
>I don't like rooves. I'd use roofs. goofs? he goofs off.

That's a present tense, not a plural (maybe that's what your "oh"
meant). I'd certainly use goofs though, to mean more than one goof -
definitely not gooves!

>oh. hooves...hmmmmmm hoofs..all 4 hoofs...

I think I'd still use ve there.

>poofs...pooves..prefer poofs

Isn't that non-PC - or even stronger - these days?

In genealogy, I like spice (by analogy with mice) for multiple partners
(-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never rely on somebody else for your happiness.
- Bette Davis, quoted by Celia Imrie, RT 2014/3/12-18

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 15:56:56 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
<nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:

>On 07/11/2023 15:06, carolet wrote:
>> On 07/11/2023 09:57, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>>
>>> Helen Archer’s ex continues his mind games, having returned from his
>>> death bed – just when we thought we were safe
>>>
>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/07/charlotte-higgins-on-the-archers-is-evil-rob-channeling-glenn-close-in-fatal-attraction>,
>>> aka <https://tinyl.io/9iRC>
>>
>> Is this an online only thing or does it appear in the paper too? The url
>> implies that it is in today's paper, but I can't see it in there.
>>
>>
>
>I think it's generally in the paper but I've got the feeling in the past
>that, sometimes, things are published on different schedules online vs
>hard-copy. I don't know which day it normally appears in print.

This on-line/in-print thing can be hard to keep up with - even for
seasoned professionals.

I'm pretty sure that this week, on the Today programme, while they
were reviewing the papers, one said to the other, Didn't we read out
that headline yesterday?

The other replied, Yes, but that was in the on-line edition.

Nick

On 08/11/2023 11:48, Vicky wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 10:52:53 +0000, Jenny M Benson
> <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/11/2023 20:15, Wenlock wrote:
>>> Spin - Span - Spun
>>> Pin - Pinned - Pinned
>>> Win - Won - Won
>>>
>>> I’m sure it all makes perfick sense.
>>
>> Listening to Susie Dent's podcast Something Rhymes with Purple I have
>> just learned that the OED no longer includes ROOVES as the plural of ROOF.
>>
>> I don't think I've had occasion to refer to more than one roof for a
>> *very* long time and I'm not sure now which plural I would have chosen.
>
> I don't like rooves. I'd use roofs. goofs? he goofs off.
> oh. hooves...hmmmmmm hoofs..all 4 hoofs...
> poofs...pooves..prefer poofs

Dwarf, dwarves (whatever happened to dwerrow?)

john

In message <uig2kk$1k7f8$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 8 Nov 2023 13:32:04,
John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> writes
>On 08/11/2023 11:48, Vicky wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 10:52:53 +0000, Jenny M Benson
>> <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/11/2023 20:15, Wenlock wrote:
>>>> Spin - Span - Spun
>>>> Pin - Pinned - Pinned
>>>> Win - Won - Won
>>>>
>>>> I’m sure it all makes perfick sense.
>>>
>>> Listening to Susie Dent's podcast Something Rhymes with Purple I have
>>> just learned that the OED no longer includes ROOVES as the plural of ROOF.
>>>
>>> I don't think I've had occasion to refer to more than one roof for a
>>> *very* long time and I'm not sure now which plural I would have chosen.
>> I don't like rooves. I'd use roofs. goofs? he goofs off.
>> oh. hooves...hmmmmmm hoofs..all 4 hoofs...
>> poofs...pooves..prefer poofs
>
>Dwarf, dwarves (whatever happened to dwerrow?)
>
>john

Thinking about that one, I think the v for some words is to overcome the
(slight) difficulty of (in this case) pronouncing rfs. Less difficult
oofs, though the fs is still slightly harder than vs.

Maybe.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... a series about a grumpy old man who lives in a phone box is unlikely to
have been commissioned these days. 798 episodes later ...

On 08-Nov-23 13:18, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <i7tmkip6g4slscet4d0cq6n4n405ac5nob@4ax.com> at Wed, 8 Nov
> 2023 11:48:21, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> writes

>> poofs...pooves..prefer poofs
>
> Isn't that non-PC - or even stronger - these days?

Think furniture. (Although I haven't seen one in many a decade.)

--
Sam Plusnet