On 28.11.23 01:33, Penny wrote:
> could you tell the difference
> between Ivanhoe, Simon Templar and James Bond

But they were all goodies - so of course they are the same. Did he play
any villains?

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 11:54:42 +0000, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...

>On 28.11.23 01:33, Penny wrote:
>> could you tell the difference
>> between Ivanhoe, Simon Templar and James Bond
>
>But they were all goodies - so of course they are the same. Did he play
>any villains?

Probably not, he was much too pretty.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 01:33:15 +0000, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 21:27:30 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
>scrawled in the dust...
>
>>I have my own theory wot is mine about why there is a perceived
>>reluctance to cast or be cast in a part that is contrary to the
>>physical attributes of the actor and that is because I'm afraid that
>>although there are a few spectacularly wonderful actors around, there
>>are an awful lot who are not. So, should casting always play safe and
>>stick to type or should directors and audiences expect mediocre
>>performers to up their game?
>
>Sometimes it is difficult to tell if an actor is good at their job or you
>just really like the character they are playing. Until you've seen/heard
>them in other parts. I continue to be astounded by David Tennant and
>Michael Sheen (not together). Whereas Roger Moore can only ever have been
>cast for his looks (and maybe his voice) - could you tell the difference
>between Ivanhoe, Simon Templar and James Bond?
>
>Hm, does this mean I only like actors who can do different voices?

I like Bill Nighy very much but I'm still waiting for him to play a
part which isn't Bill Nighy.

>
>Ray and I used to watch an American drama series called The Mentalist. His
>main reason for liking it - all the actors looked like real people.

If it's actors who look like real people that you want may I recommend
Australian Drama? Almost any Australian drama - except the soaps -
will do. The Australian acting profession may have turned out the
occasional glamorous superstar (I'm looking at you, Dame Edna) but the
Mel Gibsons or Nicole Kidmans are IMO the exceptions, not the rule.

Nick

On 29.11.23 14:47, Nick Odell wrote:
> I like Bill Nighy very much but I'm still waiting for him to play a
> part which isn't Bill Nighy.

I remember when that young William Nighy was Samwise Gamgee and it is
probably time I found the tapes and gave him another airing.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
> On 29.11.23 11:46, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>> Things which might have worked really well on TV but were
>> incomprehensible when you couldn't see what was going on or who was there.
>
> That was down to a lack of understanding of radio drama - something
> which the Beetle did know about and is now a lost art.
>

There is a lot to be said for employing blind producers for radio
production I feel.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 01:33:15 +0000, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 21:27:30 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
>> scrawled in the dust...
>>
>>> I have my own theory wot is mine about why there is a perceived
>>> reluctance to cast or be cast in a part that is contrary to the
>>> physical attributes of the actor and that is because I'm afraid that
>>> although there are a few spectacularly wonderful actors around, there
>>> are an awful lot who are not. So, should casting always play safe and
>>> stick to type or should directors and audiences expect mediocre
>>> performers to up their game?
>>
>> Sometimes it is difficult to tell if an actor is good at their job or you
>> just really like the character they are playing. Until you've seen/heard
>> them in other parts. I continue to be astounded by David Tennant and
>> Michael Sheen (not together). Whereas Roger Moore can only ever have been
>> cast for his looks (and maybe his voice) - could you tell the difference
>> between Ivanhoe, Simon Templar and James Bond?
>>
>> Hm, does this mean I only like actors who can do different voices?
>
> I like Bill Nighy very much but I'm still waiting for him to play a
> part which isn't Bill Nighy.
>
>>
>> Ray and I used to watch an American drama series called The Mentalist. His
>> main reason for liking it - all the actors looked like real people.
>
> If it's actors who look like real people that you want may I recommend
> Australian Drama? Almost any Australian drama - except the soaps -
> will do. The Australian acting profession may have turned out the
> occasional glamorous superstar (I'm looking at you, Dame Edna) but the
> Mel Gibsons or Nicole Kidmans are IMO the exceptions, not the rule.
>
> Nick
>

I think you can bury any image you had of Dame Edna.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

In message <uk7ndu$t8ed$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:04:14,
Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> writes
>Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 01:33:15 +0000, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
>> wrote:
[]
>>> Sometimes it is difficult to tell if an actor is good at their job or you
>>> just really like the character they are playing. Until you've seen/heard
>>> them in other parts. I continue to be astounded by David Tennant and

It occurred to me recently that to say a part "fits <whoever> like a
glove", or that you love them in that part, is - or could be - actually
a backhanded compliment on their acting ability. Unless you had
_previously_ seen - and appreciated - them in something very different.
The recent example that made me think this is (the late, sadly) David
McCallum as Dr. Donald "Ducky" Mallard, the amiable and erudite
pathologist in NCIS; I love the character, but realised I know nothing
of the actor. (There was a nice in-joke in the script about one of his
earlier incarnations.)

>>> Michael Sheen (not together). Whereas Roger Moore can only ever have been
>>> cast for his looks (and maybe his voice) - could you tell the difference
>>> between Ivanhoe, Simon Templar and James Bond?
>>>
>>> Hm, does this mean I only like actors who can do different voices?

Some have distinctive voices, which can be a boon or a snag; Joanna
Lumley I think the most distinctive - when she turned up as very much a
bit part (in the credits as "English Girl" - what else!) in a Bond
movie, I immediately knew who she was (and yes, she's also immediately
recognisable by voice - more or less only! - in the clip of "Games
Lovers Play" that is in certain compilations). Another I recognised
immediately - though my mother didn't - was "Jill Archer", when she
turned up as a rather dotty old lady in "Casualty". (Probably helped
that I was mostly listening rather than watching.)
>>
>> I like Bill Nighy very much but I'm still waiting for him to play a
>> part which isn't Bill Nighy.
>>
>>>
>>> Ray and I used to watch an American drama series called The Mentalist. His
>>> main reason for liking it - all the actors looked like real people.
>>
>> If it's actors who look like real people that you want may I recommend
>> Australian Drama? Almost any Australian drama - except the soaps -
>> will do. The Australian acting profession may have turned out the
>> occasional glamorous superstar (I'm looking at you, Dame Edna) but the
>> Mel Gibsons or Nicole Kidmans are IMO the exceptions, not the rule.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
>I think you can bury any image you had of Dame Edna.
>
I usually found her a bit overdone: I know that was the point, but to me
it was to the point of being rude, to the detriment of those who were
co-guests with Dame Edna on other shows (people I wouldn't have
"inflicted" Dame E on if it had been up to me, like Nana Mouskouri - I
know they can all take it, but still). Not that she wasn't very well
done - I just wouldn't have chosen to put her in the same show as some
people. (If the "bury" is because of something Barry Humphries has done
- I forget who has and who hasn't been accused of such things, so many
have - then I separate performances from such accusations. I still enjoy
some of Rolf Harris's songs, for example, and the Gill statue on
Broadcasting House. [Not Hitler's landscapes - not because of his other
acts, I just don't think he was very good.])
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

G B Shaw said: "Few people think more than two or three times a year; I have
made an international reputation for myself by thinking once or twice a week."
(quoted by "Dont Bother" [sic], 2015-8-24.)

On 26/11/2023 21:27, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:05:59 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 26/11/2023 15:37, krw wrote:
>>> On 26.11.23 15:11, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>>> Very much so.  If she really felt she needed to push him off the roof,
>>>> it would have made a far more interesting storyline to have left him
>>>> in a wheelchair.  That would have still allowed her pretty well all
>>>> the major drama and family tension that killing him off gave her.  She
>>>> would also have had some really interesting lines that they could have
>>>> explored.
>>>>
>>> Wassiname from Crossroads did that.  These days they would not allow an
>>> able bodied actor to play the part.
>>
>> I don't think there would be any problem with an able bodied actor
>> playing a character who became disabled, having been fully active before
>> that. It might be different if they brought Mike and Vicky Tucker back
>> to Ambridge, with an able bodied actor playing Beth, rather than one who
>> has Down's Syndrome.
>
> What about a disabled actor playing the part of an able-bodied person?
> There's a perfect example within The Archers in Ryan Kelly but I'd
> take it further than that: why shouldn't a wheelchair using actor play
> Macbeth on stage or a person of short stature play Richard III?

I think that a large part of the reason that minority actors[1] get
upset about minority parts being played by actors who aren't from that
minority, is precisely because very few casting directors would consider
casting a disabled actor to play a part which wasn't explicitly
disabled. If there's only a small pool of parts available for disabled
actors (or those from any other minority), it really grates if those
parts are given to able bodied (or other majority) actors.

There was a really nasty example, not so long ago. A deaf actor (sorry,
I forget her name) auditioned for a place in a TV drama series. She was
turned down because they decided that her lack of hearing would make
life too difficult. A day or two later, she received a second letter,
saying that they'd liked what she did with the character so much, that
they'd decided to make the character deaf. They then went on to offer
her a day or so's consultancy work, to advise the hearing actor they had
given the job to... Needless to say, this kind offer was refused.

I know there's been a lot of discussion about colourblind casting, so I
hope things are improving for non-white actors. I suspect though that,
where the scriptwriter hasn't specified these characteristics, casting
directors are likely to automatically cast able-bodied white actors.

> I think nearly everybody thought that Tracy-Ann Oberman gave a
> stunning performance as Shylock and surely that's because she is such
> a superb actor that she makes the audience believe that she is Shylock
> regardless of her physical presence before them. Really good actors
> give performances that will convince regardless of boundaries.
>
> I have my own theory wot is mine about why there is a perceived
> reluctance to cast or be cast in a part that is contrary to the
> physical attributes of the actor and that is because I'm afraid that
> although there are a few spectacularly wonderful actors around, there
> are an awful lot who are not. So, should casting always play safe and
> stick to type or should directors and audiences expect mediocre
> performers to up their game?

I have heard the suggestion that a big part of the problem is the demise
of the repertory theatres/companies. Those used to give young actors a
really good training and extended their range considerably. A lot of
young actors nowadays, get their training, if they're lucky, in soaps,
where they are only playing the one character. They're likely to get
very good at portraying that person but it won't do anything to stretch
them or extend the range of characters and situations they can act.

> Good old Ryan Kelly. I think he's broken the mold so successfully that
> audiences don't even recall that there was a mold to be broken. More
> actors like this, please.

He does have a significant advantage from TA being on radio, so a lot of
listeners will have no reason to guess that he's blind. It would be
harder on TV but, with a good actor (and I suspect Ryan Kelly would
manage this) it wouldn't be long before the audience forgot about it -
if they'd even noticed.

I'm sure that Judy Dench is able to make people forget both her age and
her visual impairment when she's on stage - unless they're relevant to
the part and she wants you to see them.

[1] Whether from a racial minority, disabled or any other kind of minority
--
Best wishes, Serena
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 14:47:50 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

>Hm, does this mean I only like actors who can do different voices?
>
>I like Bill Nighy very much but I'm still waiting for him to play a
>part which isn't Bill Nighy.

I like Nighy too but not Roger Moore. He ruined the Saint. My dad
died when I was 7 and left a bookcase with a whole pile of Saint
books. that I began to read a few years later. There was a Saint club
for children, which I joined. I had a membership card that stated I
had the rank and grade of angel :) .
>
>>
>>Ray and I used to watch an American drama series called The Mentalist. His
>>main reason for liking it - all the actors looked like real people.
>
>If it's actors who look like real people that you want may I recommend
>Australian Drama? Almost any Australian drama - except the soaps -
>will do. The Australian acting profession may have turned out the
>occasional glamorous superstar (I'm looking at you, Dame Edna) but the
>Mel Gibsons or Nicole Kidmans are IMO the exceptions, not the rule.

I love Brokenwood, which is a New Zealand production. I love the main
detective chief, who is much divorced, a C& W fan, stocky, rumpled and
in his late 40s or early 50s. I like the whole cast, which is quite a
few people who appear regularly. It does descend to Father Brown level
but is much better. I'm re-watching, or it might be re-re-watching.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

>krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>> On 29.11.23 11:46, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>> Things which might have worked really well on TV but were
>>> incomprehensible when you couldn't see what was going on or who was there.
>>
>> That was down to a lack of understanding of radio drama - something
>> which the Beetle did know about and is now a lost art.
>>
>
>There is a lot to be said for employing blind producers for radio
>production I feel.

Hear hear

On 29-Nov-23 18:54, Vicky wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>> On 29.11.23 11:46, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>>> Things which might have worked really well on TV but were
>>>> incomprehensible when you couldn't see what was going on or who was there.
>>>
>>> That was down to a lack of understanding of radio drama - something
>>> which the Beetle did know about and is now a lost art.
>>>
>>
>> There is a lot to be said for employing blind producers for radio
>> production I feel.
>
> Hear hear

They would have to.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 29/11/2023 18:54, Vicky wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>> On 29.11.23 11:46, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>>> Things which might have worked really well on TV but were
>>>> incomprehensible when you couldn't see what was going on or who was there.
>>>
>>> That was down to a lack of understanding of radio drama - something
>>> which the Beetle did know about and is now a lost art.
>>>
>>
>> There is a lot to be said for employing blind producers for radio
>> production I feel.
>
> Hear hear

What, deaf as well ?

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:35:17 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
<nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:

>I know there's been a lot of discussion about colourblind casting, so I
>hope things are improving for non-white actors. I suspect though that,
>where the scriptwriter hasn't specified these characteristics, casting
>directors are likely to automatically cast able-bodied white actors.

The new film version oh Charlie and the chocolate factory has a black
female Charlie.
>
>
>
>
>I'm sure that Judy Dench is able to make people forget both her age and
>her visual impairment when she's on stage - unless they're relevant to
>the part and she wants you to see them.
>
I didn't know she had one?

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 19:02:40 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 29-Nov-23 18:54, Vicky wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 29.11.23 11:46, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>>>> Things which might have worked really well on TV but were
>>>>> incomprehensible when you couldn't see what was going on or who was there.
>>>>
>>>> That was down to a lack of understanding of radio drama - something
>>>> which the Beetle did know about and is now a lost art.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is a lot to be said for employing blind producers for radio
>>> production I feel.
>>
>> Hear hear
>
>They would have to.

BTN!

N.

On 29/11/2023 22:06, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 19:02:40 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 29-Nov-23 18:54, Vicky wrote:
>>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
>>> <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 29.11.23 11:46, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>>>>> Things which might have worked really well on TV but were
>>>>>> incomprehensible when you couldn't see what was going on or who was there.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was down to a lack of understanding of radio drama - something
>>>>> which the Beetle did know about and is now a lost art.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is a lot to be said for employing blind producers for radio
>>>> production I feel.
>>>
>>> Hear hear
>>
>> They would have to.
>
>
> BTN!
>
> N.

Accepted,

Watch out for an important announcement on Friday (if I don't umbrella)

john

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:53:42 +0000, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 14:47:50 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>Hm, does this mean I only like actors who can do different voices?
>>
>>I like Bill Nighy very much but I'm still waiting for him to play a
>>part which isn't Bill Nighy.
>
>I like Nighy too but not Roger Moore. He ruined the Saint. My dad
>died when I was 7 and left a bookcase with a whole pile of Saint
>books. that I began to read a few years later. There was a Saint club
>for children, which I joined. I had a membership card that stated I
>had the rank and grade of angel :) .
>>
>>>
>>>Ray and I used to watch an American drama series called The Mentalist. His
>>>main reason for liking it - all the actors looked like real people.
>>
>>If it's actors who look like real people that you want may I recommend
>>Australian Drama? Almost any Australian drama - except the soaps -
>>will do. The Australian acting profession may have turned out the
>>occasional glamorous superstar (I'm looking at you, Dame Edna) but the
>>Mel Gibsons or Nicole Kidmans are IMO the exceptions, not the rule.
>
>
>I love Brokenwood, which is a New Zealand production. I love the main
>detective chief, who is much divorced, a C& W fan, stocky, rumpled and
>in his late 40s or early 50s. I like the whole cast, which is quite a
>few people who appear regularly. It does descend to Father Brown level
>but is much better. I'm re-watching, or it might be re-re-watching.

I have a feeling that if you liked that, you might enjoy The Miss
Fisher Murder Mysteries. I don't know whether they are being streamed
or are otherwise available anywhere but if you find them do give them
a try.

It's an Australian series. I know what I said earlier about Australian
productions. What I meant to say was ...Australian soaps and TMFMM.

Nick

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:35:17 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
<nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:

>On 26/11/2023 21:27, Nick Odell wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 16:05:59 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
>> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/11/2023 15:37, krw wrote:
>>>> On 26.11.23 15:11, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>>>>> Very much so.  If she really felt she needed to push him off the roof,
>>>>> it would have made a far more interesting storyline to have left him
>>>>> in a wheelchair.  That would have still allowed her pretty well all
>>>>> the major drama and family tension that killing him off gave her.  She
>>>>> would also have had some really interesting lines that they could have
>>>>> explored.
>>>>>
>>>> Wassiname from Crossroads did that.  These days they would not allow an
>>>> able bodied actor to play the part.
>>>
>>> I don't think there would be any problem with an able bodied actor
>>> playing a character who became disabled, having been fully active before
>>> that. It might be different if they brought Mike and Vicky Tucker back
>>> to Ambridge, with an able bodied actor playing Beth, rather than one who
>>> has Down's Syndrome.
>>
>> What about a disabled actor playing the part of an able-bodied person?
>> There's a perfect example within The Archers in Ryan Kelly but I'd
>> take it further than that: why shouldn't a wheelchair using actor play
>> Macbeth on stage or a person of short stature play Richard III?
>
>I think that a large part of the reason that minority actors[1] get
>upset about minority parts being played by actors who aren't from that
>minority, is precisely because very few casting directors would consider
>casting a disabled actor to play a part which wasn't explicitly
>disabled. If there's only a small pool of parts available for disabled
>actors (or those from any other minority), it really grates if those
>parts are given to able bodied (or other majority) actors.
>
>There was a really nasty example, not so long ago. A deaf actor (sorry,
>I forget her name) auditioned for a place in a TV drama series. She was
>turned down because they decided that her lack of hearing would make
>life too difficult. A day or two later, she received a second letter,
>saying that they'd liked what she did with the character so much, that
>they'd decided to make the character deaf. They then went on to offer
>her a day or so's consultancy work, to advise the hearing actor they had
>given the job to... Needless to say, this kind offer was refused.
>
>I know there's been a lot of discussion about colourblind casting, so I
>hope things are improving for non-white actors. I suspect though that,
>where the scriptwriter hasn't specified these characteristics, casting
>directors are likely to automatically cast able-bodied white actors.
>
>
>> I think nearly everybody thought that Tracy-Ann Oberman gave a
>> stunning performance as Shylock and surely that's because she is such
>> a superb actor that she makes the audience believe that she is Shylock
>> regardless of her physical presence before them. Really good actors
>> give performances that will convince regardless of boundaries.
>>
>> I have my own theory wot is mine about why there is a perceived
>> reluctance to cast or be cast in a part that is contrary to the
>> physical attributes of the actor and that is because I'm afraid that
>> although there are a few spectacularly wonderful actors around, there
>> are an awful lot who are not. So, should casting always play safe and
>> stick to type or should directors and audiences expect mediocre
>> performers to up their game?
>
>I have heard the suggestion that a big part of the problem is the demise
>of the repertory theatres/companies. Those used to give young actors a
>really good training and extended their range considerably. A lot of
>young actors nowadays, get their training, if they're lucky, in soaps,
>where they are only playing the one character. They're likely to get
>very good at portraying that person but it won't do anything to stretch
>them or extend the range of characters and situations they can act.
>
>
<Languid Wave> Especially about the repertory theatres. I haven't
tried to read many actor biographies but I also wonder how many of the
current crop have ever had a serious professional training at one of
the major drama schools? My mother trained at RADA. She just went into
repertory theatre but many of her contemporaries (I mentioned one the
other day) became household names of stage and screen.

It's probably still true of disabled actors and minority ethnic actors
as it is/was of women vs men (Fred Astaire/Ginger
Rogers/backwards/high heels) but I can't see any actors - except
perhaps Charles Paris - just loafing around waiting for the right
black/blind/female/wheelchair role to be written for them: I hope
every actor of every persuasion has a crack at getting every part.
Surely superb actors like Sophie Okonedo and Michaela Coel don't sit
around waiting for "black" parts and I'm almost certain that Idris
Elba and Lenny Henry[1] don't do that either.

Nick
[1]I don't actually like Lenny Henry all that much when he's being
himself but I reckon he is a first-rate performer.

Serena Blanchflower <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> writes:

> I think that a large part of the reason that minority actors[1] get
> upset about minority parts being played by actors who aren't from that
> minority, is precisely because very few casting directors would
> consider casting a disabled actor to play a part which wasn't
> explicitly disabled. If there's only a small pool of parts available
> for disabled actors (or those from any other minority), it really
> grates if those parts are given to able bodied (or other majority)
> actors.

I do have a dog in this particular fight, and to be honest I get rather
fed up with the mouthier young members of my minority, the ones who want
it all and want it now and demand that everybody accepot all their
demands or else. It feels rather like when I'm abroad and in the
distance a gaggle of young English males can be seen and heard
approaching – you probably know the sort: bare lobster-coloured chest and
lower legs, tins of cheap lager in hand, raucously belting out football
chants – and I want to dive through the nearest doorway to avoid being
associated with them. No, I'm not becoming a gender-crit type, I despise
them too, but there are those who give us a bad name.

Anyway, such types demand that trans roles, where they exist (I was much
more comfortable to be honest when there was a clear distinction between
transsexuals and transvestites but all the goalposts have been moved now
and nobody asked me about it) should always be played by trans
actors. Not that there are all that many trans roles but quite honestly
I've seen some cracking film performances from seemingly quite unlikely
actors. Steven Mackintosh comes to mind, he usually played hard men but
when he was in a film called Different for Girls round about the time I
crossed the floor he carried it off extremely well, and even conveyed
the awkward self-consciousness we tend to feel in our early
days. Anyway, I think those trans actors should be free to play Antigone,
Othello, Lady Bracknell, Archie Rice, Blanche Dubois or whatever.

I don't want Othello to be reserved for black actors (even sub-Saharan
Africans when Othello is specifically a Moor). I want black, female,
disabled or trans actors to be free to play any role. I want directors
to be free to play it as they see fit – an Othello with a white lead and
black everything else would work and make a point. (In that terrible
1992 OU York Summer School with the murder on the first evening, one of our
coping mechanisms was to do wacky things like playing a scene from
Garcìa Lorca's Yerma, or was it Blood Wedding as both were on the
course) with all the gender roles reversed. It worked well and helped to
illuminate the themes of the play).

Was it Gielgud or Olivier who gave Dustin Hoffman the very sensible
advice "why don't you try acting, dear boy"?

Rosie

In message <87zfyw114s.fsf@golgonooza.co.uk> at Thu, 30 Nov 2023
01:27:31, Rosie Mitchell <rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> writes
[]
>I do have a dog in this particular fight, and to be honest I get rather
>fed up with the mouthier young members of my minority, the ones who want
>it all and want it now and demand that everybody accepot all their
>demands or else. It feels rather like when I'm abroad and in the
>distance a gaggle of young English males can be seen and heard
>approaching – you probably know the sort: bare lobster-coloured chest and
>lower legs, tins of cheap lager in hand, raucously belting out football

I find such gaggles (or even individuals) something I want to avoid,
whether abroad or not. (In fact I haven't been abroad for many years,
but still see the type.)
[]
>days. Anyway, I think those trans actors should be free to play Antigone,
>Othello, Lady Bracknell, Archie Rice, Blanche Dubois or whatever.

If someone has transed (?), I don't see why I have to even know that
they have. As such, I'm happy for them to play any part their new state
makes them appropriate for. In the same way as I'd be happy for any
Christian, Muslim, or atheist to play any Christian, Muslim, or atheist,
as long as they do it well. (Or other religions [or non-]; those three
just came to mind first.)
[]
>course) with all the gender roles reversed. It worked well and helped to
>illuminate the themes of the play).

When I was there, my school was an all-boys one, but the theatrical
productions they put on at the end of the Winter and Spring terms -
often one of them was a G&S, and one something else - usually involved
female parts - and they managed to make some very believable
girls/ladies. (And I don't _remember_ those who took the parts - albeit
usually younger boys - getting _that_ much ribbing for it. There was a
little.) One year they did "Dido and Aeneas", which was rather daring as
it was written for an all-girls school; I think that _wasn't_ _too_
successful (not helped by it being universally referred to as Dildo and
Anus - boys will be boys!), but I admired whoever had the idea of
trying.
>
>Was it Gielgud or Olivier who gave Dustin Hoffman the very sensible
>advice "why don't you try acting, dear boy"?
(-: [I can just imagine either of them saying that!]
>
>Rosie
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We're done for the night. I'm off for a cup of tea and some crystal meth.
Only joking. I've had quite enough tea for one day.
- Victoria Coren Mitchell, quoted in RT 2017/10/7013

On 30/11/2023 01:27, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
> Serena Blanchflower <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> writes:
>
>> I think that a large part of the reason that minority actors[1] get
>> upset about minority parts being played by actors who aren't from that
>> minority, is precisely because very few casting directors would
>> consider casting a disabled actor to play a part which wasn't
>> explicitly disabled. If there's only a small pool of parts available
>> for disabled actors (or those from any other minority), it really
>> grates if those parts are given to able bodied (or other majority)
>> actors.
>
> I do have a dog in this particular fight, and to be honest I get rather
> fed up with the mouthier young members of my minority, the ones who want
> it all and want it now and demand that everybody accepot all their
> demands or else. It feels rather like when I'm abroad and in the
> distance a gaggle of young English males can be seen and heard
> approaching – you probably know the sort: bare lobster-coloured chest and
> lower legs, tins of cheap lager in hand, raucously belting out football
> chants – and I want to dive through the nearest doorway to avoid being
> associated with them. No, I'm not becoming a gender-crit type, I despise
> them too, but there are those who give us a bad name.
>
> Anyway, such types demand that trans roles, where they exist (I was much
> more comfortable to be honest when there was a clear distinction between
> transsexuals and transvestites but all the goalposts have been moved now
> and nobody asked me about it) should always be played by trans
> actors. Not that there are all that many trans roles but quite honestly
> I've seen some cracking film performances from seemingly quite unlikely
> actors. Steven Mackintosh comes to mind, he usually played hard men but
> when he was in a film called Different for Girls round about the time I
> crossed the floor he carried it off extremely well, and even conveyed
> the awkward self-consciousness we tend to feel in our early
> days. Anyway, I think those trans actors should be free to play Antigone,
> Othello, Lady Bracknell, Archie Rice, Blanche Dubois or whatever.
>
> I don't want Othello to be reserved for black actors (even sub-Saharan
> Africans when Othello is specifically a Moor). I want black, female,
> disabled or trans actors to be free to play any role.

This would be the ideal, I agree, Not to presume to speak for those
younger members of your community or (as pale, stale and cis-male as I
am) other such groups but I believe the point is that if a section of
society is discriminated against in general then reserving roles
portraying a member of that sector for members is a way of addressing
and redressing that discrimination.

As the discrimination diminishes the hope is both that non specific
roles will become available and that the call for specific roles to be
played by specific actors can be dropped. It doesn't quite work because
gay actors have played straight roles since time immemorial but there is
little outrage at straight actors playing gay roles. Likewise the row
about Bradley Cooper's Bernstein centres more on the stereotype
promulgated by his prosthetic than on him Jewing Up.

I want directors
> to be free to play it as they see fit – an Othello with a white lead and
> black everything else would work and make a point. (In that terrible
> 1992 OU York Summer School with the murder on the first evening, one of our
> coping mechanisms was to do wacky things like playing a scene from
> Garcìa Lorca's Yerma, or was it Blood Wedding as both were on the
> course) with all the gender roles reversed. It worked well and helped to
> illuminate the themes of the play).
>
> Was it Gielgud or Olivier who gave Dustin Hoffman the very sensible
> advice "why don't you try acting, dear boy"?

Olivier on the set of Marathon Man, I believe. Hoffman had been running
up and down stairs to get out of breath for a scene.

john

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 01:27:31 +0000, Rosie Mitchell
<rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>
> (In that terrible
>1992 OU York Summer School with the murder on the first evening..
<snip>

Good grief, Rosie, I never realised.

That must haunt you every time you hear the credits for The Archers.

I'm so sorry.

Nick

On 29.11.23 18:35, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
> I know there's been a lot of discussion about colourblind casting, so I
> hope things are improving for non-white actors.  I suspect though that,
> where the scriptwriter hasn't specified these characteristics, casting
> directors are likely to automatically cast able-bodied white actors.

As a regular theatre goer I can confirm that sometimes alleged familial
offspring are not always concurrent in terms of skin colour and most of
the time the acting can be good enough for it not to matter. But
sometimes the clash is such that one is bound to ask if the
actor/actress was given the part to ensure that there was racial
inclusion. No-one automatically casts anyone anymore - the need for
inclusion is baked in to the selection process.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On 29.11.23 21:14, Vicky wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:35:17 +0000, Serena Blanchflower
> <nospam@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I know there's been a lot of discussion about colourblind casting, so I
>> hope things are improving for non-white actors. I suspect though that,
>> where the scriptwriter hasn't specified these characteristics, casting
>> directors are likely to automatically cast able-bodied white actors.
>
> The new film version oh Charlie and the chocolate factory has a black
> female Charlie.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm sure that Judy Dench is able to make people forget both her age and
>> her visual impairment when she's on stage - unless they're relevant to
>> the part and she wants you to see them.
>>
> I didn't know she had one?

Age-related macular degeneration (AMD) was diagnosed in 2012 and has
reached the point now that scripts are read to her to be learned and not
read by the lady herself. Widely reported.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 23:32:29 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:53:42 +0000, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>
>>I love Brokenwood, which is a New Zealand production. I love the main
>>detective chief, who is much divorced, a C& W fan, stocky, rumpled and
>>in his late 40s or early 50s. I like the whole cast, which is quite a
>>few people who appear regularly. It does descend to Father Brown level
>>but is much better. I'm re-watching, or it might be re-re-watching.
>
>I have a feeling that if you liked that, you might enjoy The Miss
>Fisher Murder Mysteries. I don't know whether they are being streamed
>or are otherwise available anywhere but if you find them do give them
>a try.
>
>It's an Australian series. I know what I said earlier about Australian
>productions. What I meant to say was ...Australian soaps and TMFMM.
>
>Nick

I liked the original but not the updated one. The author of the books
Miss Fisher was based on wrote a series based in Melbourne and more
modern and I love that. The first is Earthly Delights and I've just
spent 10 minutes looking for it until B said I searched for it once
before and I think I lent it to someone to show how good it is.

On 26/11/2023 15:37, krw wrote:
> On 26.11.23 15:11, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
>> Very much so.  If she really felt she needed to push him off the roof,
>> it would have made a far more interesting storyline to have left him
>> in a wheelchair.  That would have still allowed her pretty well all
>> the major drama and family tension that killing him off gave her.  She
>> would also have had some really interesting lines that they could have
>> explored.
>>
> Wassiname from Crossroads did that.  These days they would not allow an
> able bodied actor to play the part.
>
If you are referring to what I think you are (I have never watched it) I
believe that was a mistake. They gave the character an illness and then
realised it was incurable, leaving them with the situation rather than
inventing a non-existent cure that would mislead the public and give
false hope to those who really did have whatever it was.
>>
>>
>> [1]  Even less probable, when you remember that it's only a subset of
>> the Ambridge inhabitants who live within reach of the hidden mics.
>> [2]  The main exception being that Sam Batten was so wooden that he
>> made a very unconvincing love interest for Ruth.
>
> Well I am rarely convinced that Ruth is not also pretty wooden - so if
> they had ever actually got together and there were two sticks rubbing
> together there would soon be a conflagration.
>

--
Ric