On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 00:08:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

>In message <874jg4ivwx.fsf@golgonooza.co.uk> at Tue, 26 Dec 2023
>19:52:14, Rosie Mitchell <rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> writes
>[]
>>All the same, I confess it's long been my practice to pronounce the home
>>ground of Dundee United¹ (Tannadice Park) as "Tah-na-DEE-chay". After
>>all, everything sounds better in Italian.
>[]
>Yes, like that village in Essex near the A12, Inga-tess-toh-knee.

Or the town in Kent, which we always called Fol-KESS-tonee.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes:

> I don't like turkey much, one year I did a boned out three bird roast for a
> large gathering. Takes a long time to cook but the carving is a doddle.
> Mostly I cooked a capon for Christmas - no longer allowed.

I don't care for turkey either. Prior to the family moving south in 1965
(when I turned 11) we had a capon at Christmas. Turkey thereafter.

If I'm catering for several people (4 plus a wean was the most to be
honest) I do a goose, which is quite my favourite, and I curse Charles
Dickens for doing more than anybody to displace the goose at the
Christmas table, although as those who know their Sherlock Holmes will
be aware that even as late as 1892 the goose was the Christmas bird of
choice.

If it's just me, or just me and a friend, I do a duck. Not a Gressingham
duck if I can help it – Gressingham is a fine breed of duck named after
a village in Lancashire but all Gressingham ducks these days are
intensively produced in East Anglia by Gressingham Foods Ltd of
Thetford. They have a monopoly on the production of ducks sold as
Gressingham ducks, and the truth is nasty. See
https://www.animaljusticeproject.com/campaigns/gressingham-duck-farms
for more, but only if you haven't just eaten or aren't about to eat.

No, I prefer to go elsewhere in Lancashire, that finest of English
counties, to Goosnargh in the Ribble valley where the ducks are
free-range and prized by Michelin-starred chefs. Same for Goosnargh
chickens too, by the way. Get your Goosnargh duck from a reputable
butcher, if you can find one in your area. We do seem to be blessed in
Scotland where proper independent butchers seem much more widespread
than in England. Always good for top-notch haggices and ashet steak
pies.

Rosie

Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes:

> On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 11:52:10 +0000, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk>
> scrawled in the dust...
>
>>and she ate sugar
>>sandwiches
>
> They were a special treat in my childhood, probably when we ran out of home
> made jam.

At this time of year rum butter, a Cumberland delicacy passed down from
my Nanna and no doubt known to her grandfather (and therefore my
great-great granddad), <kf>William Mitchell of Maryport, Victorian
artist</kf> was the great Christmas treat. A block of butter, melted; a
bag of soft brown sugar; a generous slosh of rum (my granddad was a navy
man in WW1) and a bit of grated nutmeg, poured into a bowl and left to
cool. Spread it on bread or toast and it was just a glorified sugar
sandwich. Sort of like a less-refined brandy butter but a melted rather
than a creamed mix. It was the traditional accompaniment to Christmas
pudding although at home we preferred rum sauce with the pudding – an
eggless custard with another good slosh of rum.

I make rum butter some years but not for a while now. Maybe next year.

Rosie

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:

> On 26-Dec-23 23:11, Penny wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 11:52:10 +0000, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>> scrawled in the dust...
>>
>>> and she ate sugar
>>> sandwiches
>> They were a special treat in my childhood, probably when we ran out
>> of home
>> made jam.
>
> In the part of the world where I was raised, there were only two types
> of "butty".
> A "chip butty" and a "sugar butty", everything else was a "sandwich".
> I have no idea why this distinction was made.

And a bacon butty, surely? Britain's answer to the classic jambon
beurre.

Rosie

On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 00:11:51 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>I admit that I have never seen the point of the aubergine. They seem to
>serve no useful purpose.

Roasted whole in its skin, then mashed with oil, lemon, garlic, tahini
it makes baba ganoush, a delicious dip. similar to hummus, but with
roasted eggplant instead of chickpeas.

Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
> AIAOU?

Absolutely not.

> I like taramasalata, and caviar when I can get it, and I like a good dry
> champagne very much - these days English sparklers from Hampshire or
> Sussex are absolutely delicious and often better value than the French.

I too like caviar and top quality Champagne, and I agree that some English
sparkling wine (Nyetimber being a particular favourite) are up there with
decent, if not top-notch champagne.

I’m also very partial to truffles of the fungal kind, which seem to have
become much more common than in the past judging by the amount of truffled
cheese in the supermarkets and truffled-and-parmesaned chips in posher
burger restaurants.

I could add native oysters to my list of frightfully bourgeoise favourite
foods. I would be seeking to drive out pigs in blankets with legions of
angels and devils on horseback if only I had a local source of oysters
(Waitrose can supply the prunes for the devils, but without the angels they
can be a bit too rich.)

On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 00:18:12 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>In message <wsFiN.96527$xHn7.73833@fx14.iad> at Tue, 26 Dec 2023
>19:03:54, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>>On 26-Dec-23 16:56, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>
>>> I'm pleased to hear it! (Purely as a matter of supporting
>>>English/British industry; I don't like anything to which the term
>>>"dry" is applied.)
>>
>>Humour?
>
>Ah yes; I particularly like dry humour, especially if well done. I was
>referring only to wines (and similar).
>
>>The Younger Dryas?
>>
>Don't know that one.

It's an age thing. Once you understand the concept you'll warm to the idea.

--
Regards, Paul Herber
https://www.paulherber.co.uk/

On 26/12/2023 20:01, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> writes:
>
>> (Your guests' reaction on hearing about the pud reminds me that there
>> was some vegetable which my mother liked to serve to German friends,
>> who enjoyed it and asked what it was, only to be somewhat
>> disconcerted, as it was a vegetable well enough known in Germany, but
>> only as cattle fodder. I think it was turnip.)
>
> I know sheep love them (assuming you mean what we up here call turnips
> or neeps, a word which the big English supermarkets refuse to acknowledge) so
> they become part of our national dish without having to put up with them
> cheppit on the plate. I can't stand neeps (always mashed up with carrots
> in my childhood Christmas dinners). I prefer my haggis like most Scots
> do, with a wee salade Glasvège and broon sauce.
>
> Rosie

Forty or so years ago I worked in a factory, in Glasgow, which produced
a wide variety of pickled products and sauces. Diced swede was ordered
for use in sweet pickle as "rutabaga".

I always eat my haggis with champit tatties and bashed neeps.

Wenlock <wenlock.house@googlemail.com> writes:

> Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> I too like caviar and top quality Champagne, and I agree that some English
> sparkling wine (Nyetimber being a particular favourite) are up there with
> decent, if not top-notch champagne.

Most of the English wines I've tasted have been acceptable plonk at best
(and rather expensive acceptable plonk). The English methode
champagnoise I've tried have been very good, just as you say
Kate. Probably the chalky, flinty soils of SE England suit the style
best.

Rosie

On 27/12/2023 01:03, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
>
>> On 26-Dec-23 23:11, Penny wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 11:52:10 +0000, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>>> scrawled in the dust...
>>>
>>>> and she ate sugar
>>>> sandwiches
>>> They were a special treat in my childhood, probably when we ran out
>>> of home
>>> made jam.
>>
>> In the part of the world where I was raised, there were only two types
>> of "butty".
>> A "chip butty" and a "sugar butty", everything else was a "sandwich".
>> I have no idea why this distinction was made.
>
> And a bacon butty, surely? Britain's answer to the classic jambon
> beurre.
>
> Rosie

There's no bacon butties - nor indeed any form of butty - in Scotland.
Plenty of bacon rolls, though.

On 27/12/2023 02:42, Vicky wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 00:11:51 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> I admit that I have never seen the point of the aubergine. They seem to
>> serve no useful purpose.

Sacrilege !
>
> Roasted whole in its skin, then mashed with oil, lemon, garlic, tahini
> it makes baba ganoush, a delicious dip. similar to hummus, but with
> roasted eggplant instead of chickpeas.

Or in Patrick Leigh Fermor's housekeeper's recipe (as seen on Rick STein
TV show) for Moussaka. Yum.

Or as a bhajee - sweat some onions in oil, remove to a pan and add diced
aubergine to frying pan with more oil, season and get some colour on
them, then liberal dousing with turmeric. Add some seeds - coriander,
cumin, cardamom and mustard added to the frying pan for a minute or two,
then add the whole lot to the onions with a squirt of tomarto puree and
optionally fresh cherry toms and/or coriander and/or a fresh chilli or
2. Cook on a low heat for a few minutes and then leave to stand for
30-60 minutes and serve warm.

Or cut into thin 5mm strips, doused with oil and baked on a tray.

Or into even thinner round slices, dredged in gram flour and shallow
fried - never as good as where we first had it at Lithero restaurant in
Lourdas. <https://www.instagram.com/p/CFR7KTSh6CW/>

On 27/12/2023 09:55, BrritSki wrote:

> then add the whole lot to the onions with a squirt of tomarto

<shock>

On 27/12/2023 10:02, BrritSki wrote:
> On 27/12/2023 09:55, BrritSki wrote:
>
>> then add the whole lot to the onions with a squirt of tomarto
>
> <shock>
>

International Talk Like a Pirate Day was the 19th of September.

john

On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 20:24:27 +0000, Rosie Mitchell
<rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> scrawled in the dust...

>One of the phrases that epitomises the Hull accent is "drah waht wahn
>fer t'lehdeh at tehble nahne". The other is "Er ner, rerd werks in
>'Erlderness Rerd".

The local contractor puts it on his signs :)
<https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6608433>

--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes:

> On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 20:24:27 +0000, Rosie Mitchell
> <rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> scrawled in the dust...
>
>>One of the phrases that epitomises the Hull accent is "drah waht wahn
>>fer t'lehdeh at tehble nahne". The other is "Er ner, rerd werks in
>>'Erlderness Rerd".
>
> The local contractor puts it on his signs :)
> <https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6608433>

Brilliant! There's that kind of local wit in Hull too. I like "No
Croggies" although that could equally be Liverpool.

Rosie

On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 12:44:20 +0000, John Ashby wrote:

> On 27/12/2023 10:02, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 27/12/2023 09:55, BrritSki wrote:
>>
>>> then add the whole lot to the onions with a squirt of tomarto
>>
>> <shock>
>>
>>
> International Talk Like a Pirate Day was the 19th of September.
>
That reminds me. Somewhere in last weeks's offering -- I think
maybe in the Chilcott area -- was "like a parrot's armpit" or "like a
pirate's armpit"? I think I prefer the first one but fear it's just me ears.

Iain

Iain Archer <ianews@montaigne.me.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 12:44:20 +0000, John Ashby wrote:
>
>> On 27/12/2023 10:02, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 27/12/2023 09:55, BrritSki wrote:
>>>
>>>> then add the whole lot to the onions with a squirt of tomarto
>>>
>>> <shock>
>>>
>>>
>> International Talk Like a Pirate Day was the 19th of September.
>>
> That reminds me. Somewhere in last weeks's offering -- I think
> maybe in the Chilcott area -- was "like a parrot's armpit" or "like a
> pirate's armpit"? I think I prefer the first one but fear it's just me ears.
>
> Iain
>
>

Was the parrot’s name Hercules? Or perhaps it was the pirate named
Frederick>

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 27/12/2023 12:44, John Ashby wrote:
> On 27/12/2023 10:02, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 27/12/2023 09:55, BrritSki wrote:
>>
>>> then add the whole lot to the onions with a squirt of tomarto
>>
>> <shock>
>>
>
> International Talk Like a Pirate Day was the 19th of September.
>
Oooh Ar Matey.

When I built the Pirate Ship treehouse when we lived in Ceriana,
I attached a stuffed parrot to a branch and told the AGCs that it was
called Pieces and its egg was Ovate.

On 27-Dec-23 1:03, Rosie Mitchell wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
>
>> On 26-Dec-23 23:11, Penny wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 11:52:10 +0000, Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>>> scrawled in the dust...
>>>
>>>> and she ate sugar
>>>> sandwiches
>>> They were a special treat in my childhood, probably when we ran out
>>> of home
>>> made jam.
>>
>> In the part of the world where I was raised, there were only two types
>> of "butty".
>> A "chip butty" and a "sugar butty", everything else was a "sandwich".
>> I have no idea why this distinction was made.
>
> And a bacon butty, surely? Britain's answer to the classic jambon
> beurre.

No. For some reason only chips and sugar warranted the term butty. I
later moved to Liverpool for a while, & as you know everything between
two slices of bread is a butty there.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 27-Dec-23 7:35, Wenlock wrote:
> Kate B <elvira@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> AIAOU?
>
> Absolutely not.
>
>> I like taramasalata, and caviar when I can get it, and I like a good dry
>> champagne very much - these days English sparklers from Hampshire or
>> Sussex are absolutely delicious and often better value than the French.
>
> I too like caviar and top quality Champagne, and I agree that some English
> sparkling wine (Nyetimber being a particular favourite) are up there with
> decent, if not top-notch champagne.
>
> I’m also very partial to truffles of the fungal kind, which seem to have
> become much more common than in the past judging by the amount of truffled
> cheese in the supermarkets and truffled-and-parmesaned chips in posher
> burger restaurants.

I was surprised to learn that truffles can be, and are, cultivated.

"Despite its reputation as a luxury food, French and Italian peasants
associated the truffle with famine. As the food writer, Elizabeth
Luard, explains in her book, truffles were a cash crop. The peasants
who collected them only ate them in times of war and hardship, when the
market had collapsed."

Shamelessly stolen from:

https://www.woodlands.co.uk/blog/practical-guides/grow-your-own-truffles/

--
Sam Plusnet

In message <87jzozfpbl.fsf@golgonooza.co.uk> at Wed, 27 Dec 2023
18:55:10, Rosie Mitchell <rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> writes
>Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 20:24:27 +0000, Rosie Mitchell
>> <rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> scrawled in the dust...
>>
>>>One of the phrases that epitomises the Hull accent is "drah waht wahn
>>>fer t'lehdeh at tehble nahne". The other is "Er ner, rerd werks in
>>>'Erlderness Rerd".
>>
>> The local contractor puts it on his signs :)
>> <https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6608433>
>
>Brilliant! There's that kind of local wit in Hull too. I like "No
>Croggies" although that could equally be Liverpool.
>
>Rosie
>
I remember being amused to see the same sort of sign in Geordieland,
with just white capitals on red background saying "Gaan canny" (= drive
carefully).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

And if you kill Judi Dench, you can't go back home. - Bill Nighy (on learning
to ride a motorbike [on which she would be side-saddle] for "The Best Exotic
Marigold Hotel"), quoted in Radio Times 18-24 February 2012.

Nick Odell wrote:

>Most of the guests had never seen a Christmas pudding before. Quite
>understandable really as it is rather a relic of wintry northern
>hemisphere Christmases. I think they liked it. I'm not so sure they
>were quite so keen after they had eaten and enjoyed it and I had then
>explained it had been steamed for eight hours then stored for over two
>years without freezing or any refrigeration before they came to eat it
>and was all the better for that.

We generally try to buy our Puddings cheap after the festivities,
for the next year.

Whilst the marketing seems keen to persuade buyers that longer
maturity is better, I noted with amusement that our "12 Months
Matured" product [now 24 months ;-) ] had an expiry date of last
March. Still delicious.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

On 26.12.23 05:08, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> there was some vegetable which my mother liked to serve to German
> friends, who enjoyed it and asked what it was, only to be somewhat
> disconcerted, as it was a vegetable well enough known in Germany, but
> only as cattle fodder.

Similarly I cannot bring myself to eat the kale which restaurants in
this country now offer as a green vegetable and I grew up on a farm
serving it to the cattle.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On 27.12.23 00:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> True.  Big place, Alaska.

When we visited earlier this year the ship lecturer took Alaska and
superimposed it over the rest of the US (excluding the fiftieth state)
and it really is about the same, including all those islands.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes:

> Nick Odell wrote:
>
>>Most of the guests had never seen a Christmas pudding before. Quite
>>understandable really as it is rather a relic of wintry northern
>>hemisphere Christmases. I think they liked it. I'm not so sure they
>>were quite so keen after they had eaten and enjoyed it and I had then
>>explained it had been steamed for eight hours then stored for over two
>>years without freezing or any refrigeration before they came to eat it
>>and was all the better for that.

The late Richard Boston, polymath, anarchist and all-round contrarian
and therefore naturally rather admired by me (despite being a posh boy,
Stowe school and naturally thence to Cambridge), used to publish his
recipe for Guinness christmas pudding in the Grauniad every year. Jane
Grigson included it in her Book of Englsh Food¹, my one essential
culinary bible, and I have been known to make it in the past although I
haven't for a while. The idea is that early in the year you make two
puddings, cover them with greaseproof paper and put them in the back of
a cupboard. The first Christmas that comes along you eat the first. The
next christmas you have the second. Then you start again. It was none
the worse for being kept for nearly two years.

Rosie

¹ I always like to think that the sort of people who become Umrats who
are the sort of people who have Jane Grigson as their ultimte kitchen
reference but if anybody would like this recipe just ask. (Is the Umra
Cookbook still being maintained?)