Hello,
I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.

The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.

It also offers me, as a minor choice, right at the bottom of the
list of advantages of and new things in Sonoma the choice of going to
Ventura 13.6.3 should I prefer this.

Okay, I have some reservations about Sonoma: I don't do video
conferencing at all as I've no one to talk to so an improvement in
this isn't much of a benefit; I have no idea whether any of the
available "widgets" would be useful; the screen savers on Ventura are
okay-ish and it's not as though I'm going to be watching them very
much so Sonoma's probably don't matter; I don't *have* "trusted
contacts" to share a set of passwords with and I'm bloody sure I would
*never* do such a daft thing, anyway :) and I don't game.

However, Sonoma *is* supposed to be more secure and faster and all
that good stuff, so ...

Upgrade to Sonoma?

Upgrade to V 13.6.2? {With a possible jump to Sonoma sometime
later?}

Leave the beasty alone?

Does anyone have any advice, opinion, biases or reasons to do
nothing? I *always* have reasons to do nothing. Laziness being among
them and "if it ain't broke, don't poke" being another.

I did check the Apple support pages and new pages about Sonoma and
Ventura and they make both seem like good OSes, so that was no help.

Thank you, and may you all have a lovely Christmas and a wonderful
New Year.

J.

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>
> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>
> It also offers me, as a minor choice, right at the bottom of the
> list of advantages of and new things in Sonoma the choice of going to
> Ventura 13.6.3 should I prefer this.
>
> Okay, I have some reservations about Sonoma: I don't do video
> conferencing at all as I've no one to talk to so an improvement in
> this isn't much of a benefit; I have no idea whether any of the
> available "widgets" would be useful; the screen savers on Ventura are
> okay-ish and it's not as though I'm going to be watching them very
> much so Sonoma's probably don't matter; I don't *have* "trusted
> contacts" to share a set of passwords with and I'm bloody sure I would
> *never* do such a daft thing, anyway :) and I don't game.
>
> However, Sonoma *is* supposed to be more secure and faster and all
> that good stuff, so ...
>
> Upgrade to Sonoma?
>
> Upgrade to V 13.6.2? {With a possible jump to Sonoma sometime
> later?}
>
> Leave the beasty alone?
>
> Does anyone have any advice, opinion, biases or reasons to do
> nothing? I *always* have reasons to do nothing. Laziness being among
> them and "if it ain't broke, don't poke" being another.
>
> I did check the Apple support pages and new pages about Sonoma and
> Ventura and they make both seem like good OSes, so that was no help.
>
> Thank you, and may you all have a lovely Christmas and a wonderful
> New Year.

Depending on how much space you have on your internal drive you could
create a new volume using Disk Utility, install Ventura on it via Recovery
and then upgrade it to Sonoma. If you don’t like it, erase it. You could
also do similar with an external SSD. Running Sonoma OK here except for NAS
issues but that’s another story. Merry Christmas to you and yours and best
wishes for 2024.

--
Cheers, Alan

On 19 Dec 2023 at 07:25:44 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:

> John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
>> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>>
>> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
>> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>>
>> It also offers me, as a minor choice, right at the bottom of the
>> list of advantages of and new things in Sonoma the choice of going to
>> Ventura 13.6.3 should I prefer this.
>>
>> Okay, I have some reservations about Sonoma: I don't do video
>> conferencing at all as I've no one to talk to so an improvement in
>> this isn't much of a benefit; I have no idea whether any of the
>> available "widgets" would be useful; the screen savers on Ventura are
>> okay-ish and it's not as though I'm going to be watching them very
>> much so Sonoma's probably don't matter; I don't *have* "trusted
>> contacts" to share a set of passwords with and I'm bloody sure I would
>> *never* do such a daft thing, anyway :) and I don't game.
>>
>> However, Sonoma *is* supposed to be more secure and faster and all
>> that good stuff, so ...
>>
>> Upgrade to Sonoma?
>>
>> Upgrade to V 13.6.2? {With a possible jump to Sonoma sometime
>> later?}
>>
>> Leave the beasty alone?
>>
>> Does anyone have any advice, opinion, biases or reasons to do
>> nothing? I *always* have reasons to do nothing. Laziness being among
>> them and "if it ain't broke, don't poke" being another.
>>
>> I did check the Apple support pages and new pages about Sonoma and
>> Ventura and they make both seem like good OSes, so that was no help.
>>
>> Thank you, and may you all have a lovely Christmas and a wonderful
>> New Year.
>
>
> Depending on how much space you have on your internal drive you could
> create a new volume using Disk Utility, install Ventura on it via Recovery
> and then upgrade it to Sonoma. If you don’t like it, erase it. You could
> also do similar with an external SSD. Running Sonoma OK here except for NAS
> issues but that’s another story. Merry Christmas to you and yours and best
> wishes for 2024.

Most user reviews seem favourable. Of course there are the odd tales of woe
but have a look on, say, the Macrumors forum (if you haven't already!) -
there's plenty of feedback there. Given we're now on the .2 iteration, one
would like to think Sonoma is getting pretty stable but you never know.

--
Cheers, Alan

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:13:55 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>On 19 Dec 2023 at 07:25:44 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>> John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
>>> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>>>
>>> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
>>> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>>>
>>> It also offers me, as a minor choice, right at the bottom of the
>>> list of advantages of and new things in Sonoma the choice of going to
>>> Ventura 13.6.3 should I prefer this.
>>>
>>> Okay, I have some reservations about Sonoma: I don't do video
>>> conferencing at all as I've no one to talk to so an improvement in
>>> this isn't much of a benefit; I have no idea whether any of the
>>> available "widgets" would be useful; the screen savers on Ventura are
>>> okay-ish and it's not as though I'm going to be watching them very
>>> much so Sonoma's probably don't matter; I don't *have* "trusted
>>> contacts" to share a set of passwords with and I'm bloody sure I would
>>> *never* do such a daft thing, anyway :) and I don't game.
>>>
>>> However, Sonoma *is* supposed to be more secure and faster and all
>>> that good stuff, so ...
>>>
>>> Upgrade to Sonoma?
>>>
>>> Upgrade to V 13.6.2? {With a possible jump to Sonoma sometime
>>> later?}
>>>
>>> Leave the beasty alone?
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any advice, opinion, biases or reasons to do
>>> nothing? I *always* have reasons to do nothing. Laziness being among
>>> them and "if it ain't broke, don't poke" being another.
>>>
>>> I did check the Apple support pages and new pages about Sonoma and
>>> Ventura and they make both seem like good OSes, so that was no help.
>>>
>>> Thank you, and may you all have a lovely Christmas and a wonderful
>>> New Year.
>>
>>
>> Depending on how much space you have on your internal drive you could

Loads of free space most of the time but I sometimes accidentally and
temporarily partially fill it with videos to watch. I could "lose" a
hundred Gibbies or so without noticing much.

Now, as far as ...

>> create a new volume using Disk Utility, install Ventura on it via Recovery
>> and then upgrade it to Sonoma.

... goes. Yes, I suppose I could do this. I haven't partitioned a
disk since 2012 and running two OSes on the one box is something I've
not done for about the same time. Still, I suppose those sorts of
things have only gotten easier? They usually do. :)

>>If you don’t like it, erase it.

Now *that* I'm happy with. :)

I do know how to erase things. Though, if I partitioned the disk I
would probably leave it in two chunks. Two "volumes" could come in
handy sometime later for some other project and 300 GB is probably
enough for me to play with most of the time.

Just as a datapoint, it's an internal SSD with 480 GB if I remember
correctly. I do know a place where, should I be in the mood, I could
have a techy replace it with something larger.

>> You could
>> also do similar with an external SSD.

Okay, that I had not considered. Do MDP's *like* running from
external drives? I've had one since 2007 but that is a trick I've yet
to need to try.

I suppose that all I need to do is to tell the beastie where the boot
disk is using the options menu in the top left corner?

>> Running Sonoma OK here except for NAS
>> issues but that’s another story.

Cool.

NAS is black magic at times. Even Windows has issues with them.
Though I must say that I've never had any problems with mine. Well,
apart from a folder I couldn't delete, once but I managed to resolve
that.

>> Merry Christmas to you and yours and best
>> wishes for 2024.

Thanks. You, too.

>
>Most user reviews seem favourable. Of course there are the odd tales of woe

There are 8 milliard humans on the planet, give or take a few dozen,
of those millions have PC's of all sorts. Many of those humans are
about as technically literate as a prawn. It would be *astonishing*
were none of them to have problems with even the best, most perfect
softwares and hardwares.

>but have a look on, say, the Macrumors forum (if you haven't already!) -

Ummm ... far too many posts with far too many titles. I know it's a
great resource but as I don't use it very often [maybe twice in 30
years] the sheer flood of information is overwhelming.

But thanks for reminding me.

>there's plenty of feedback there.

True.

> Given we're now on the .2 iteration, one
>would like to think Sonoma is getting pretty stable but you never know.

Stability has rarely been something Appple is in any short supply of.
The issue I was mulling over was more cost versus benefits. Is it
worth updating or upgrading or just playing with my shiny, new toy? I
like my new toy. It's a lovely machine and it does stuff.

The updating and upgrading would, of course, be *easy* as is usual
with Apple's stuff. And, with your idea of a second volume, internal
or not, it wouldn't hurt me much.

Now, I need to search about to find out how much would a 150 TB SSD
be and would that be sufficient for all my stuff? :)

Thanks for the suggestions and the help.

J.

On 19 Dec 2023 at 10:05:18 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:13:55 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
>>> Depending on how much space you have on your internal drive you could
>
> Loads of free space most of the time but I sometimes accidentally and
> temporarily partially fill it with videos to watch. I could "lose" a
> hundred Gibbies or so without noticing much.
>
> Now, as far as ...
>
>>> create a new volume using Disk Utility, install Ventura on it via Recovery
>>> and then upgrade it to Sonoma.
>
> ... goes. Yes, I suppose I could do this. I haven't partitioned a
> disk since 2012 and running two OSes on the one box is something I've
> not done for about the same time. Still, I suppose those sorts of
> things have only gotten easier? They usually do. :)
>
>>> If you don’t like it, erase it.
>
> Now *that* I'm happy with. :)
>
> I do know how to erase things. Though, if I partitioned the disk I
> would probably leave it in two chunks. Two "volumes" could come in
> handy sometime later for some other project and 300 GB is probably
> enough for me to play with most of the time.

It's not really partitioning but adding extra volumes to hold another bootable
system. I've found these extra volumes can be deleted quite easily via Disk
Utility when booted from my "normal" system. If there's been any problem I've
booted into Recovery and done it from there.

> Just as a datapoint, it's an internal SSD with 480 GB if I remember
> correctly. I do know a place where, should I be in the mood, I could
> have a techy replace it with something larger.
>
>>> You could
>>> also do similar with an external SSD.
>
> Okay, that I had not considered. Do MDP's *like* running from
> external drives? I've had one since 2007 but that is a trick I've yet
> to need to try.

You need to check if a particular externally connected SSD will boot
especially with M series Macs. I haven't tried it for a while but found my M1
was a bit fussy. Thunderbolt SSDs would boot rather than USB4 but that may
have changed.

> suppose that all I need to do is to tell the beastie where the boot
> disk is using the options menu in the top left corner?

Yes just the normal Startup Disk option in Sys Prefs. Presumably you know that
if the internal drive is faulty on an M series Mac, it won't even boot from an
external drive :(

>
>>> Running Sonoma OK here except for NAS
>>> issues but that’s another story.
>
> Cool.
>
> NAS is black magic at times. Even Windows has issues with them.
> Though I must say that I've never had any problems with mine. Well,
> apart from a folder I couldn't delete, once but I managed to resolve
> that.

Sadly WD say they don't support Sonoma on their NAS system over WiFi yet so
until they do I've reverted to using TM with a large capacity external USB
HDD. The WD device works fine for my MBA running Monterey though.

--
Cheers, Alan

I'm still not sure if you're running an Intel or M series Mac. Sadly you can't
realistically change out the internal SSD on a M series Mac.

--
Cheers, Alan

On 18 Dec 2023 at 23:57:27 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

>
> Hello,
> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>
> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.

Do that and don't worry about it so much. The point 2 release is very
steady, no need to have point zero release concerns.

Cheers and happy Christmas! - Jaimie
--
Remember, if something is on the news that means
it's rare enough that you shouldn't worry about it.
It's the things that _don't_ make the news due to
being so common that you should worry about.
-- Stephen Sprunk

On 19 Dec 2023 13:34:44 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
<jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

>On 18 Dec 2023 at 23:57:27 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello,
>> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
>> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>>
>> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
>> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>
>Do that and don't worry about it so much.

Oh, a *definite* answer.

> The point 2 release is very
>steady, no need to have point zero release concerns.

Thank you. I wasn't really worried about stability, Apple do loads of
that even with the zero releases. I wasn't really "worried" about
anything. I just didn't know whether I should.

Now I do. And I will. Thank you.

Sometimes, not often, I'm easily influenced. :)

>
> Cheers and happy Christmas! - Jaimie

And the same to your good self,
J.

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2023 at 23:57:27 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello,
>> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
>> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>>
>> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
>> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>
> Do that and don't worry about it so much. The point 2 release is very
> steady, no need to have point zero release concerns.

14.2.1 is now available.

“According to Apple's release notes, ‌macOS Sonoma‌ 14.2.1 includes bug
fixes and a security update. macOS 14.2.1 fixes a screen sharing
vulnerability that could cause a user to unintentionally share the
incorrect content.”

<https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/19/apple-releases-macos-sonoma-14-2-1/>

--
Cheers, Alan

On 19/12/2023 19:10, Alan B wrote:
> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>> On 18 Dec 2023 at 23:57:27 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
>>> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>>>
>>> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
>>> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>>
>> Do that and don't worry about it so much. The point 2 release is very
>> steady, no need to have point zero release concerns.
>
> 14.2.1 is now available.
>
> “According to Apple's release notes, ‌macOS Sonoma‌ 14.2.1 includes bug
> fixes and a security update. macOS 14.2.1 fixes a screen sharing
> vulnerability that could cause a user to unintentionally share the
> incorrect content.”
>
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/19/apple-releases-macos-sonoma-14-2-1/>
>

Only updated to14.2 this morning!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 19:10:32 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>> On 18 Dec 2023 at 23:57:27 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
>>> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>>>
>>> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
>>> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>>
>> Do that and don't worry about it so much. The point 2 release is very
>> steady, no need to have point zero release concerns.
>
>14.2.1 is now available.

Cool, but I have a 'flu-like thingy so no playing for some time.
Thank you.

>
>“According to Apple's release notes, ?macOS Sonoma? 14.2.1 includes bug
>fixes and a security update. macOS 14.2.1 fixes a screen sharing
>vulnerability that could cause a user to unintentionally share the
>incorrect content.”
>
><https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/19/apple-releases-macos-sonoma-14-2-1/>

Cool, thanks.

I knew asking on here was a good idea. :)

J.

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 19:10:32 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>> On 18 Dec 2023 at 23:57:27 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
>>>> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>>>>
>>>> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
>>>> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>>>
>>> Do that and don't worry about it so much. The point 2 release is very
>>> steady, no need to have point zero release concerns.
>>
>> 14.2.1 is now available.
>
> Cool, but I have a 'flu-like thingy so no playing for some time.
> Thank you.

I hope it’s not the thingy I had in September. It turned out to be Covid
but I recovered reasonably quickly. Hope you’re well soon and best wishes
for Crimble and the new year.

--
Cheers, Alan

On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 12:52:28 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 19:10:32 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>>> On 18 Dec 2023 at 23:57:27 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I have a lovely newish 16" 2020-ish MacBook Pro running MacOS
>>>>> Ventura 13.5.2 and running it very well.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "Software Updates" tab in the menu of options is offering me
>>>>> a upgrade to Sonoma 14.2 as an option.
>>>>
>>>> Do that and don't worry about it so much. The point 2 release is very
>>>> steady, no need to have point zero release concerns.
>>>
>>> 14.2.1 is now available.
>>
>> Cool, but I have a 'flu-like thingy so no playing for some time.
>> Thank you.
>
>I hope it’s not the thingy I had in September. It turned out to be Covid
>but I recovered reasonably quickly. Hope you’re well soon and best wishes
>for Crimble and the new year.

Thank you for the good wishes.

I'm getting better.

Okay, so I tried to download the Ventura update. It didn't want to
work. It would get as far as a couple of hundred MB's then it lost the
plot and restarted.

After a while I got tired of this and went for the Sonoma upgrade.

That worked perfectly, first time.

It took a while to download 5.42 GB's but that wasn't the tedious
part. I have lots of really thick books with lots of pages. The worst
part was the actual "Preparing to install" and the installation. Those
took about 20 minutes or so and looked like they might have required
some human interaction to respond to things.

They did. It was like setting up the MBP in the first place. Sonoma
asked me a couple of questions, then it popped up a lovely log-on
screen.

After logging in, the MacBok Pro started running like a really fast,
really cool machine.

No bugs. Lots of things "just work". Lots of new toys to play with.
There's going to be a bit of a learning time but that's fun, too.

Thank you, everyone, I wouldn't have had the confidence to try this
without you all.

Merry Christmas and may all your New Years be lovely.

J.

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:50:47 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>I'm still not sure if you're running an Intel or M series Mac. Sadly you can't
>realistically change out the internal SSD on a M series Mac.

Intel. Probably the last of them.

And "you can't realistically change ..." *YET*. Someone will work it
out. Someone always does. :)

J.

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:50:47 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I'm still not sure if you're running an Intel or M series Mac. Sadly you can't
>> realistically change out the internal SSD on a M series Mac.
>
> Intel. Probably the last of them.
>
> And "you can't realistically change ..." *YET*. Someone will work it
> out. Someone always does. :)

Looks like someone has. Sadly my soldering skills ain’t what they used to
be :-(

<https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/12/upgrading-an-apple-silicon-mac-mini-ssd-is-possible-but-a-slog/amp/>

--
Cheers, Alan

On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 12:10:14 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:50:47 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still not sure if you're running an Intel or M series Mac. Sadly you can't
>>> realistically change out the internal SSD on a M series Mac.
>>
>> Intel. Probably the last of them.
>>
>> And "you can't realistically change ..." *YET*. Someone will work it
>> out. Someone always does. :)
>
>Looks like someone has. Sadly my soldering skills ain’t what they used to
>be :-(
>
><https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/12/upgrading-an-apple-silicon-mac-mini-ssd-is-possible-but-a-slog/amp/>

See? I told you so!

There's *always* one guy sitting there doing what the greybeards
are whining is utterly impossible. "You can't travel faster than a
horse because the air won't get into your lungs." "Women can't run a
country because of hormones." "I told Wilbur and I told Orville, that
thing will *never* fly!"

Sadly, *my* soldering skills never were what they should have been
but I knew someone would do it. :)

Happy Christmas.

J.

On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 11:12:08 +0000, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> No bugs.

Okay, I've found a possible bug. A teeny, tiny one.

Sonoma 14.2.1, MBP 16", 32BG memory, Intel box.

My "Apps Store" window has "Pages" as an available update. That one
was there even under Ventura but I didn't update it then.

I can log in to my Apple ID but when I try to update "Pages" the
email/userid field is pre-filled with a bogus email address. It's not
one I have ever used. I can't get shot of it.

Naturally, the password for my "real" userid does not work with that
addy.

Logging out does not work. Killin "App Store" and restarting it does
not work. "System Preferences" does not have the bogus addy anywhere
in it, it is *only* in the pop-up window asking me to sign in when I
try to download "Pages" to update it.

The addy field is filled in even after I've re-logged-in to the
Store. Even when I re-log in with App Store killed.

What did I do wrongly?

Note: I do have five "applications" waiting for me to adopt them.
"Pages" is one of those. Could that be the issue? Will it not permit
updates until it *is* adopted? I don't like that idea because it says
it will link my box's unique number to the adoption papers which is a
*gigantic* security hole. If that's the problem, I'll probably do
without the update. I may even do without "Pages".

>Lots of things "just work". Lots of new toys to play with.

Yerp. Lots. :)

>There's going to be a bit of a learning time but that's fun, too.

Until I hit a wall. :)

No, that's unfair. Even needing help is fun.

>
> Thank you, everyone, I wouldn't have had the confidence to try this
>without you all.
>
> Merry Christmas and may all your New Years be lovely.

Yeah. What he said. Thanks. :)

J.

>
> J.

On 24 Dec 2023 at 21:51:46 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 12:10:14 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:50:47 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
>>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm still not sure if you're running an Intel or M series Mac. Sadly you can't
>>>> realistically change out the internal SSD on a M series Mac.
>>>
>>> Intel. Probably the last of them.
>>>
>>> And "you can't realistically change ..." *YET*. Someone will work it
>>> out. Someone always does. :)
>>
>> Looks like someone has. Sadly my soldering skills ain’t what they used to
>> be :-(
>>
>> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/12/upgrading-an-apple-silicon-mac-mini-ssd-is-possible-but-a-slog/amp/>
>
> See? I told you so!
>
> There's *always* one guy sitting there doing what the greybeards are whining
> is utterly impossible.

I suspect no one would say "It can't be done." I suspect many including myself
will say that the liklihood of it being done successfully is low. Is that a
multi-pin chip that has been wave-soldered (or however they do it these days)
onto the board? You have some large number of pins to unsolder - are you going
to damage any of the traces in the process? Is it a multi-layer board? if so
might one damage a trace in an internal layer, or cause something to become
unsoldered by injudicious application of the iron? Or cause a short?

As the geezer said on the video, the skill-set required for this sort of
upgrade is beyond most people, and the tool-kit required is unlikely to be
found in my kitchen.

--
Tim

TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> On 24 Dec 2023 at 21:51:46 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 12:10:14 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:50:47 -0000 (UTC), Alan B
>>>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm still not sure if you're running an Intel or M series Mac. Sadly you can't
>>>>> realistically change out the internal SSD on a M series Mac.
>>>>
>>>> Intel. Probably the last of them.
>>>>
>>>> And "you can't realistically change ..." *YET*. Someone will work it
>>>> out. Someone always does. :)
>>>
>>> Looks like someone has. Sadly my soldering skills ain’t what they used to
>>> be :-(
>>>
>>> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/12/upgrading-an-apple-silicon-mac-mini-ssd-is-possible-but-a-slog/amp/>
>>
>> See? I told you so!
>>
>> There's *always* one guy sitting there doing what the greybeards are whining
>> is utterly impossible.
>
> I suspect no one would say "It can't be done." I suspect many including myself
> will say that the liklihood of it being done successfully is low. Is that a
> multi-pin chip that has been wave-soldered (or however they do it these days)
> onto the board? You have some large number of pins to unsolder - are you going
> to damage any of the traces in the process? Is it a multi-layer board? if so
> might one damage a trace in an internal layer, or cause something to become
> unsoldered by injudicious application of the iron? Or cause a short?
>
> As the geezer said on the video, the skill-set required for this sort of
> upgrade is beyond most people, and the tool-kit required is unlikely to be
> found in my kitchen.

Bah! Humbug! Just have to trade in the Mac for a better model now ;-)

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to the u.c.s.m. clan :-)

--
Cheers, Alan

On 24/12/2023 22:18, John wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 11:12:08 +0000, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>
> <<snipped>>
>
>> No bugs.
>
> Okay, I've found a possible bug. A teeny, tiny one.
>
> Sonoma 14.2.1, MBP 16", 32BG memory, Intel box.
>
> My "Apps Store" window has "Pages" as an available update. That one
> was there even under Ventura but I didn't update it then.
>
> I can log in to my Apple ID but when I try to update "Pages" the
> email/userid field is pre-filled with a bogus email address. It's not
> one I have ever used. I can't get shot of it.

How bogus? Is it a <random>@icloud.com address? In which case you might
have enabled "Hide my email".
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/105078>

>
> Naturally, the password for my "real" userid does not work with that
> addy.
>
> Logging out does not work. Killin "App Store" and restarting it does
> not work. "System Preferences" does not have the bogus addy anywhere
> in it, it is *only* in the pop-up window asking me to sign in when I
> try to download "Pages" to update it.

Where/how are you trying to update Pages? Doing so through the App Store
should be fine and no need to actually start Pages.

> The addy field is filled in even after I've re-logged-in to the
> Store. Even when I re-log in with App Store killed.
>
> What did I do wrongly?

Not sure, but...

>
> Note: I do have five "applications" waiting for me to adopt them.
> "Pages" is one of those. Could that be the issue? Will it not permit
> updates until it *is* adopted? I don't like that idea because it says
> it will link my box's unique number to the adoption papers which is a
> *gigantic* security hole. If that's the problem, I'll probably do
> without the update. I may even do without "Pages".

What do you mean by "adopt"? Is it an autocorrect-ism for "update"?
If not then "adopt" is not Apple terminology that I recognise. And
certainly not "adoption papers".

This email address works if you want to email a screen shot.

>> Lots of things "just work". Lots of new toys to play with.
>
> Yerp. Lots. :)
>
>> There's going to be a bit of a learning time but that's fun, too.
>
> Until I hit a wall. :)
>
> No, that's unfair. Even needing help is fun.
>
>>
>> Thank you, everyone, I wouldn't have had the confidence to try this
>> without you all.
>>
>> Merry Christmas and may all your New Years be lovely.
>
> Yeah. What he said. Thanks. :)

Happy Christmas.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 11:22:49 +0000, Bruce Horrocks
<07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

>On 24/12/2023 22:18, John wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 11:12:08 +0000, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>
>>
>> <<snipped>>
>>
>>> No bugs.
>>
>> Okay, I've found a possible bug. A teeny, tiny one.
>>
>> Sonoma 14.2.1, MBP 16", 32BG memory, Intel box.
>>
>> My "Apps Store" window has "Pages" as an available update. That one
>> was there even under Ventura but I didn't update it then.
>>
>> I can log in to my Apple ID but when I try to update "Pages" the
>> email/userid field is pre-filled with a bogus email address. It's not
>> one I have ever used. I can't get shot of it.
>
>How bogus? Is it a <random>@icloud.com address?

Not *too* bogus. It's "somerealname4@me.com" so not an iCloudy addy
but an old *@me.com one. Is that better? Worse? Impossible?

I did once, long ago, have a *.me.com addy but that was several MB's
ago and I never used it nor did I fill in any forms with it. Nor is
this Pages one *anything* like the one I made.

Nor can I remove it.

>In which case you might
>have enabled "Hide my email".
><https://support.apple.com/en-us/105078>

Oh, rabbit-hole time. Thank you, but I did not *deliberately* do
anything like this. Or I don't think I did. Hold on ...

<thump downstairs, open MBP, clicky-clicky, hmmmmmmm......>

Nope. I didn't, however, I have now created an iCloudy email addy
which I will probably never use.

The *@me.com addy is still in the pop-up when I try to update pages.
I'e even rebooted, logged out of App Store, killed App Store,
re-started App Store and logged back in.

Bogus email still populates the field.

>
>>
>> Naturally, the password for my "real" userid does not work with that
>> addy.
>>
>> Logging out does not work. Killin "App Store" and restarting it does
>> not work. "System Preferences" does not have the bogus addy anywhere
>> in it, it is *only* in the pop-up window asking me to sign in when I
>> try to download "Pages" to update it.
>
>Where/how are you trying to update Pages? Doing so through the App Store
>should be fine and no need to actually start Pages.

No, you're right, I'm not *starting* Pages. I'm looking at the App
Store and it tells me I have 1 update, Pages.

I click on "Update" to the right of the Pages icon. It pops up a
sign-in window. The email field is already populated with the
"*.me.com" addy. I can't overwrite nor delete this little bugger and
my "real" email password [of course] doesn't work with it. I think it
might actually be a real addy, just not mine.

This populated sign-in pop up pops up whether I am signed in to the
Apps Store or not.

I'm on Sonomoa 14.2.1 on a MacBook Proo, 2020 Intel box.

>
>> The addy field is filled in even after I've re-logged-in to the
>> Store. Even when I re-log in with App Store killed.
>>
>> What did I do wrongly?
>
>Not sure, but...
>
>>
>> Note: I do have five "applications" waiting for me to adopt them.
>> "Pages" is one of those. Could that be the issue? Will it not permit
>> updates until it *is* adopted? I don't like that idea because it says
>> it will link my box's unique number to the adoption papers which is a
>> *gigantic* security hole. If that's the problem, I'll probably do
>> without the update. I may even do without "Pages".
>
>What do you mean by "adopt"?

If I click on the Username at the bottom left of the Apps Store
window, it gives me a list of programs I have already added to my MBP
and a list of five that I "have to adopt" on this box. Garageband and
Numbers are among them. I have never, ever used those programs, nor
Pages.

Pages is also there.

The wordy bits tell me that "adopting" involves giving Apple my
"unique machine number" and letting them assign it to my email addy.
That does not seem like a privacy enhancing move.

>Is it an autocorrect-ism for "update"?

Nope. The adopting suggestion is very clear. Besides which, the
news-reader program I use, Forté's Agent, doesn't *have* autocorrupt.
It does have a dictionary and will mark words not found in it when I
try to post but it doesn't corrupt them for me on the fly.

I think later versions of Agent doe have it but mine is very, very
old, like me. We get on well together.

>If not then "adopt" is not Apple terminology that I recognise. And
>certainly not "adoption papers".

"Adoption papers" was my little bit of whimsy, sorry. All adoptions
of humans get papers to go with them. All legal ones, though one can
informally pick up a street urchin and just add her to the family. Or
I suppose that is still lawful?

"Adopt" may not be Apple terminology but those are the buggers using
it. *I* certainly never would have. Not for programs on a machine.
And, no, until now I had never heard of it, either.

>
>This email address works if you want to email a screen shot.

I'll give it a go but it may not work.

>
>>> Lots of things "just work". Lots of new toys to play with.
>>
>> Yerp. Lots. :)
>>
>>> There's going to be a bit of a learning time but that's fun, too.
>>
>> Until I hit a wall. :)
>>
>> No, that's unfair. Even needing help is fun.
>>
>>>
>>> Thank you, everyone, I wouldn't have had the confidence to try this
>>> without you all.
>>>
>>> Merry Christmas and may all your New Years be lovely.
>>
>> Yeah. What he said. Thanks. :)
>
>Happy Christmas.

To you and yours, too, and may the New Year be all that you hope and
none of what we expect.

Thank you.
J.

On 25/12/2023 16:15, John wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 11:22:49 +0000, Bruce Horrocks
[snip]
>> How bogus? Is it a <random>@icloud.com address?
>
> Not *too* bogus. It's "somerealname4@me.com" so not an iCloudy addy
> but an old *@me.com one. Is that better? Worse? Impossible?
>
> I did once, long ago, have a *.me.com addy but that was several MB's
> ago and I never used it nor did I fill in any forms with it. Nor is
> this Pages one *anything* like the one I made.
>
> Nor can I remove it.

Okay. It sounds like this could be an old email address that you used
with the App Store. (This may have been inherited from the iTunes Store
days.)

[snip]

>>> Note: I do have five "applications" waiting for me to adopt them.
>>> "Pages" is one of those. Could that be the issue? Will it not permit
>>> updates until it *is* adopted? I don't like that idea because it says
>>> it will link my box's unique number to the adoption papers which is a
>>> *gigantic* security hole. If that's the problem, I'll probably do
>>> without the update. I may even do without "Pages".

So it seems that "adopt" is a real Apple thing. Who knew? ;-)

There's a similar support request at the following URL where the
accepted answer seems to be to uninstall each app, then re-install from
the App Store and then the adopt request goes away.
<https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8599976?sortBy=best>

The other answers point to the issue occurring if the Mac was bought
used. Did you buy this Mac second-hand and not start with a complete
wipe and reinstall? Could the App Store email address you refer to be
from a previous owner?

Whichever, DON'T follow the advice of the other answers just yet. Try
the uninstall & reinstall first and let us know what happens.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 23:32:48 +0000, Bruce Horrocks
<07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

>On 25/12/2023 16:15, John wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 11:22:49 +0000, Bruce Horrocks
>[snip]
>>> How bogus? Is it a <random>@icloud.com address?
>>
>> Not *too* bogus. It's "somerealname4@me.com" so not an iCloudy addy
>> but an old *@me.com one. Is that better? Worse? Impossible?
>>
>> I did once, long ago, have a *.me.com addy but that was several MB's
>> ago and I never used it nor did I fill in any forms with it. Nor is
>> this Pages one *anything* like the one I made.
>>
>> Nor can I remove it.
>
>Okay. It sounds like this could be an old email address that you used
>with the App Store. (This may have been inherited from the iTunes Store
>days.)

Uhhhn, no. Not mine.

>
>[snip]
>
>>>> Note: I do have five "applications" waiting for me to adopt them.
>>>> "Pages" is one of those. Could that be the issue? Will it not permit
>>>> updates until it *is* adopted? I don't like that idea because it says
>>>> it will link my box's unique number to the adoption papers which is a
>>>> *gigantic* security hole. If that's the problem, I'll probably do
>>>> without the update. I may even do without "Pages".
>
>So it seems that "adopt" is a real Apple thing. Who knew? ;-)

Possibly, Apple do? Who can know if they don't tell us?

>
>There's a similar support request at the following URL where the
>accepted answer seems to be to uninstall each app, then re-install from
>the App Store and then the adopt request goes away.
><https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8599976?sortBy=best>

Oh. Right. Thanks. I'll have a go at that. I have Numbers, iMovie,
Garargeband, Pages and Note (? I'm running from memory and I'm tired,
sorry) none of which I've ever needed so binning them won't be too
much of a loss.
Nor would I miss them if I can't get them back.

Okay, so that page from Apple Support seems to urge us to Adopt the
street urchins then wait for their servers to notice it *AND* to dump
and re-install the programs. Doing a re-install seems, sometimes, to
do the Adopt in the background, that is: it tags the new programs with
the machine's unique number without telling us. Not nice but nothing I
wouldn't expect from major data-slurppers like Apple, Microsoft,
Google and others in the 21st Century.

>
>The other answers point to the issue occurring if the Mac was bought
>used. Did you buy this Mac second-hand and not start with a complete
>wipe and reinstall? Could the App Store email address you refer to be
>from a previous owner?

Yes, to 2nd hand, but the guys who sold it promised it was a clean
disk and copied over my files and users from my dead, elderly 2012
MBP.

*Everything* else is mine. (Actually, the wife's but she's not using
the box right now and she rarely complains when I do.)

>
>Whichever, DON'T follow the advice of the other answers just yet. Try
>the uninstall & reinstall first and let us know what happens.

Cool. So don't do the Adoptions, just let the little match-girls
freeze out in the cold for a while. Well, okay, as it's not Christmas
anymore, I guess we can revert to type. :)

It may take a few hours. Sorry.

Happy New Year.

And thank you.

John.

Note: I did a screenshot, dropped it into Dropbox for you and tagged
your email addy with sharing permissions. I hope that's okay?

On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 01:18:28 +0000, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

<<snipped>>

>
> It may take a few hours. Sorry.
>
> Happy New Year.
>
> And thank you.
>
> John.

Okay, so the issue is resolved by a work-around suggested by you folk
and that Apple support web-site: I deleted the offending programs from
my MBP.

Not really a solution but Pages isn't asking for an update any more
and no one is asking to be Adopted.

I couldn't find "Numbers" anywhere on the box so I don't know why
that one was whining but such is Life.

Thank you, everyone and have a lovely New Year.

J.

On 25/12/2023 23:32, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> The other answers point to the issue occurring if the Mac was bought
> used. Did you buy this Mac second-hand and not start with a complete
> wipe and reinstall? Could the App Store email address you refer to be
> from a previous owner?

Agreed, it sounds like the apps that need "adopting" were in fact
purchased by a different Apple ID. You can look at the
<app>/Contents/_MASReceipt/receipt file as per this link
http://magervalp.github.io/2013/03/19/poking-around-in-masreceipts.html
to see if your current Apple ID puchased it.

In this case "adoption" is probably the term for replacing the receipt
with one for you. I **strongly** doubt this is something you can do
manually without completely breaking the app.

--
Chris