I have to say that was a cracking University Challenge final last
night.

Both teams had an amazing facility for instant recall of such a
wide variety of topics. Although the result was not close, I
think that was simply down to milliseconds on the buttons.

I felt that both captains really understood how the task is best
undertaken - don't dither, know who to trust. During the series
there were several who simply did not get this.

Amol has made a really good new host. He is such a refreshing
change from Jeremy, who would no doubt admit that his health was
not helping him. However, he still needs to be careful that his
enthusiasm to raise the pace doesn't affect his audibility.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

On 09/04/2024 10:18, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> I have to say that was a cracking University Challenge final last
> night.
>
> Both teams had an amazing facility for instant recall of such a
> wide variety of topics. Although the result was not close, I
> think that was simply down to milliseconds on the buttons.
>
> I felt that both captains really understood how the task is best
> undertaken - don't dither, know who to trust. During the series
> there were several who simply did not get this.
>
> Amol has made a really good new host. He is such a refreshing
> change from Jeremy, who would no doubt admit that his health was
> not helping him. However, he still needs to be careful that his
> enthusiasm to raise the pace doesn't affect his audibility.
>
> Chris

I haven't watched the final yet, so thank you for not "spoiling" the result.

However, I can't agree with you about Amol. His diction is poor at the
best of times, and appalling at moments of "excitement". To be fair to
the contestants, clarity at all times is paramount.

On 09/04/2024 10:18, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> I have to say that was a cracking University Challenge final last
> night.
>
> Both teams had an amazing facility for instant recall of such a
> wide variety of topics. Although the result was not close, I
> think that was simply down to milliseconds on the buttons.
>
> I felt that both captains really understood how the task is best
> undertaken - don't dither, know who to trust. During the series
> there were several who simply did not get this.
>
> Amol has made a really good new host. He is such a refreshing
> change from Jeremy, who would no doubt admit that his health was
> not helping him. However, he still needs to be careful that his
> enthusiasm to raise the pace doesn't affect his audibility.
>
> Chris

I agree with all that, but I do wish they'd taken the opportunity to
revert to the old intro music...

Boi-ing
Bop bop bop bop
Bap badiddlop
Bop, biddle op boodaloo...

Much more fun. The current version I find coe-turlingly mimsey.

--
Cheers
Clive

In message <uv5p1c$su3r$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:18:17,
Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> writes
[]
>revert to the old intro music...
>
>Boi-ing
>Bop bop bop bop
>Bap badiddlop
>Bop, biddle op boodaloo...
>
>Much more fun. The current version I find coe-turlingly mimsey.
>
What, a borogrove surfeit?

In one of the old series, during the title sequence, a vaguely V-shaped
device with levers and cogs moved around the screen; I always wondered
what it was - just a (possibly Victorian or similar?) novelty, or
something of actual function.

UC is about the only general-knowledge quiz which IMO covered subjects
reasonably evenly (though when Jeremy was the host, he exhibited IMO
despicable disdain if they didn't know something in a subject area he
knew about, but amazement when they knew something scientific);
Mastermind, for example (I mean the general knowledge parts of course!),
is very biased towards the arts and (present and past) politics, with
very little science. Not just a subjective view - I counted questions,
and science got a poor look-in - especially if you discounted questions
that were just remembering things like chemical element symbols and
other sub-O-level ones.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... "Peter and out." ... "Kevin and out." (Link episode)

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> writes:

> In message <uv5p1c$su3r$1@dont-email.me> at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:18:17,
> Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> writes
> []
>>revert to the old intro music...
>>
>>Boi-ing
>>Bop bop bop bop
>>Bap badiddlop
>>Bop, biddle op boodaloo...

College Boy, by Derek New. No idea who performed the original.

>>
>>Much more fun. The current version I find coe-turlingly mimsey.
>>
> What, a borogrove surfeit?

Miserable and flimsy. A bit like the current government really.

> UC is about the only general-knowledge quiz which IMO covered subjects
> reasonably evenly (though when Jeremy was the host, he exhibited IMO
> despicable disdain if they didn't know something in a subject area he
> knew about, but amazement when they knew something scientific);
> Mastermind, for example (I mean the general knowledge parts of
> course!), is very biased towards the arts and (present and past)
> politics, with very little science. Not just a subjective view - I
> counted questions, and science got a poor look-in - especially if you
> discounted questions that were just remembering things like chemical
> element symbols and other sub-O-level ones.

I always regarded the higher sciences, computers and so on to be my
specialised subject, along with critical literary and film theory in my
later adventures. General knowledge is what all reasonably educated
people should know. I'd expect some basic science and maths in there –
Archimedes, Galileo, Newton, some basic chemistry and biology, along
with a broad knowledge of the arts, literature, history and geography,
but not quantum theory, complex analysis or advanced astrophysics.

When I was on UC at the fag end of the Bamber era (we wuz still robbed!)
we were told that the questions should have been the general knowledge
of a reasonably bright A-level student.

Rosie

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 08:33:46 +0100, John Armstrong wrote:

> I haven't watched the final yet, so thank you for not "spoiling" the
> result.

Agree.

> However, I can't agree with you about Amol. His diction is poor at the
> best of times, and appalling at moments of "excitement". To be fair to
> the contestants, clarity at all times is paramount.

Agree. Gross mispronunciation at times as well, but that seems to be more
common generally on broadcast media these days. Unless I'm completely
wrong about the pronunciation of words such as "inventory".

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

In message <l7qhskFbg7tU2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
16:36:36, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 08:33:46 +0100, John Armstrong wrote:
[]
>> However, I can't agree with you about Amol. His diction is poor at the
>> best of times, and appalling at moments of "excitement". To be fair to
>> the contestants, clarity at all times is paramount.
>
>Agree. Gross mispronunciation at times as well, but that seems to be more
>common generally on broadcast media these days. Unless I'm completely
>wrong about the pronunciation of words such as "inventory".
>
I remember Jeremy's attitude to pronunciaton. When he was on UC, the
German term "Adlertag" (eagle day) came up. Any Germanophile would know
that should be pronounced something like ard-ler-targ. Jeremy - to the
confusion of at least one of the teams - pronounced it al-der-tagg - not
only mangling the "a" vowels, but transposing the l and d.

Worse, his attitude to foreign pronunciation seemed to be that it didn't
_matter_, which in his other role on Newsnight, just struck me as
downright rude. Especially for an intelligent man, which he _was_.

I remember one night - it might have been the same as the al-der-tagg
event - UC was followed by Mastermind; John Humphreys said something,
then apologised in case his pronunciation wasn't correct (I forget
whether it actually was or not - I don't think so, certainly not as
badly a Jeremy; the point was that he conceded he might be wrong). The
contrast was very noticeable.

How _should_ inventory be pronounced? I'll admit I'd normally say
in-VEN-tuh-ry; should it be more similar to infantry but with a v?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die -
attributed to Carrie Fisher by Gareth McLean, in Radio Times 28 January-3
February 2012

In message <87cyqxxjo9.fsf@golgonooza.co.uk> at Wed, 10 Apr 2024
17:32:38, Rosie Mitchell <rcmitchell@golgonooza.co.uk> writes
[]
>I always regarded the higher sciences, computers and so on to be my
>specialised subject, along with critical literary and film theory in my
>later adventures. General knowledge is what all reasonably educated
>people should know. I'd expect some basic science and maths in there –
>Archimedes, Galileo, Newton, some basic chemistry and biology, along
>with a broad knowledge of the arts, literature, history and geography,
>but not quantum theory, complex analysis or advanced astrophysics.

With you. But there is still a (fortunately - IMO - declining) set of
people, and I think Mr. Paxman is among them, who regard knowledge of
(for a broad generalisation) things like "the classics" of literature
well above knowledge of things they'd (again, oversimplifying) regard as
"trade". The general-knowledge part of Mastermind nods in that direction
- though it doesn't revere the classics (etc.) quite that much, it does
give science and technology a rather thin coverage.
>
>When I was on UC at the fag end of the Bamber era (we wuz still robbed!)
>we were told that the questions should have been the general knowledge
>of a reasonably bright A-level student.
>
>Rosie
>
It's the "general" aspect that's lost these days (the last several
decades). Though I'm of a scientific/engineering background, I like to
think I have some interest generally.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die -
attributed to Carrie Fisher by Gareth McLean, in Radio Times 28 January-3
February 2012

On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 21:36:19 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> In message <l7qhskFbg7tU2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
> 16:36:36, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>>
>>Agree. Gross mispronunciation at times as well, but that seems to be
>>more common generally on broadcast media these days. Unless I'm
>>completely wrong about the pronunciation of words such as "inventory".
>
> How _should_ inventory be pronounced? I'll admit I'd normally say
> in-VEN-tuh-ry; should it be more similar to infantry but with a v?

I've always believed it to be like infantry, rather than a place where
inventors hang out, but maybe I'm completely wrong.

It really annoys me that I can't remember some of the other increasingly
common mispronunciations (in general, not on UC). Other half and I
frequently shout, in unison, our version at the wireless/TV on hearing
one.

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

On 11-Apr-24 21:36, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
> How _should_ inventory be pronounced? I'll admit I'd normally say
> in-VEN-tuh-ry; should it be more similar to infantry but with a v?

Do people pronounce the verb and noun differently?

--
Sam Plusnet

Jim Easterbrook wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 21:36:19 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>> In message <l7qhskFbg7tU2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
>> 16:36:36, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>>>
>>>Agree. Gross mispronunciation at times as well, but that seems to be
>>>more common generally on broadcast media these days. Unless I'm
>>>completely wrong about the pronunciation of words such as "inventory".
>>
>> How _should_ inventory be pronounced? I'll admit I'd normally say
>> in-VEN-tuh-ry; should it be more similar to infantry but with a v?

> I've always believed it to be like infantry, rather than a place where
> inventors hang out, but maybe I'm completely wrong.

> It really annoys me that I can't remember some of the other increasingly
> common mispronunciations (in general, not on UC). Other half and I
> frequently shout, in unison, our version at the wireless/TV on hearing
> one.

Surely it's pronounced ein-veen-toe-rye
In as in "airliner"
Ven as in "venally"
to as in "toe" and
ry as in "rye."

Nick

In message <l7r1n0Fbg7tU3@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
21:06:40, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
[]
>It really annoys me that I can't remember some of the other increasingly
>common mispronunciations (in general, not on UC). Other half and I
>frequently shout, in unison, our version at the wireless/TV on hearing
>one.
>
Febwy ... Julery ... and of course the worst, nucular?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

In the words of my grandpa, a woman is as old as she looks. A man is never old
until he stops looking. - Alice Apfel, designer, 1921-2024 (102)

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

>In message <l7r1n0Fbg7tU3@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
>21:06:40, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>[]
>>It really annoys me that I can't remember some of the other increasingly
>>common mispronunciations (in general, not on UC). Other half and I
>>frequently shout, in unison, our version at the wireless/TV on hearing
>>one.
>>
>Febwy ... Julery ... and of course the worst, nucular?

Our local GHR traffic reports are often full of "tempry lights".
I'm sure that on a bad day the report would be several seconds
longer if pronounced correctly.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

On 11/04/2024 21:36, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <l7qhskFbg7tU2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
> 16:36:36, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 08:33:46 +0100, John Armstrong wrote:
> []
>>> However, I can't agree with you about Amol. His diction is poor at the
>>> best of times, and appalling at moments of "excitement". To be fair to
>>> the contestants, clarity at all times is paramount.
>>
>> Agree. Gross mispronunciation at times as well, but that seems to be more
>> common generally on broadcast media these days. Unless I'm completely
>> wrong about the pronunciation of words such as "inventory".
>>
> I remember Jeremy's attitude to pronunciaton. When he was on UC, the
> German term "Adlertag" (eagle day) came up. Any Germanophile would know
> that should be pronounced something like ard-ler-targ. Jeremy - to the
> confusion of at least one of the teams - pronounced it al-der-tagg - not
> only mangling the "a" vowels, but transposing the l and d.
>
> Worse, his attitude to foreign pronunciation seemed to be that it didn't
> _matter_, which in his other role on Newsnight, just struck me as
> downright rude. Especially for an intelligent man, which he _was_.
>
> I remember one night - it might have been the same as the al-der-tagg
> event - UC was followed by Mastermind; John Humphreys said something,
> then apologised in case his pronunciation wasn't correct (I forget
> whether it actually was or not - I don't think so, certainly not as
> badly a Jeremy; the point was that he conceded he might be wrong). The
> contrast was very noticeable.
>
> How _should_ inventory be pronounced? I'll admit I'd normally say
> in-VEN-tuh-ry; should it be more similar to infantry but with a v?

In'ventory. Accent on the first syllable, the 'o' schwa-like, barely
pronounced. Inventory control was a large part of several of my jobs
many years ago, and that was how we always pronounced it. My "Chambers"
agrees.

The foreign word mispronounced almost every week from Jeremy, and the
new incumbent, is "alumni". OK, it's Latin, it's a dead language, but if
it's referring to male and female ex-members of an educational
establishment, it's correctly pronounced "alumnEE". Not alumnEYE",
unless the people referred to are all female. The Latin word in that
case is of course "alumnae".

On 11/04/2024 22:06, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 21:36:19 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
>> In message <l7qhskFbg7tU2@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
>> 16:36:36, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>>>
>>> Agree. Gross mispronunciation at times as well, but that seems to be
>>> more common generally on broadcast media these days. Unless I'm
>>> completely wrong about the pronunciation of words such as "inventory".
>>
>> How _should_ inventory be pronounced? I'll admit I'd normally say
>> in-VEN-tuh-ry; should it be more similar to infantry but with a v?
>
> I've always believed it to be like infantry, rather than a place where
> inventors hang out, but maybe I'm completely wrong.
>
I think I would say it like that or possibly in-ven-TOR-ee, but the
latter could be due to more than 2 decades of exposure to Texan accents :/

In message <i0nh1jp6abdvbsqap5cgfvl04571vqgakv@4ax.com> at Fri, 12 Apr
2024 08:11:12, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
[]
>Our local GHR traffic reports are often full of "tempry lights".
>I'm sure that on a bad day the report would be several seconds
>longer if pronounced correctly.
>
>Chris

Weather reports/forecasts are a rich seam. I don't normally mind, as (a)
they're mostly people I like a lot, and (b) they sometimes invent new
words that are rather fun anyway. But there are some recurrent ones: "E.
Stanglia" is a common one, for example.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

One of my tricks as an armchair futurist is to "predict" things that are
already happening and watch people tell me it will never happen.
Scott Adams, 2015-3-9

On 12/04/2024 01:48, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <l7r1n0Fbg7tU3@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
> 21:06:40, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
> []
>> It really annoys me that I can't remember some of the other increasingly
>> common mispronunciations (in general, not on UC). Other half and I
>> frequently shout, in unison, our version at the wireless/TV on hearing
>> one.
>>
> Febwy ... Julery ... and of course the worst, nucular?

Not forgetting Guvverment.

The other day I was playing something on YouTube and noticed that
whereas it is quite common for subtitles to be a little mangled, in this
case it was the speech that was mangled! It was an item about Buddy
Holly and a couple of the examples I can remember are that Elena was
pronounced in 2 quite different ways, as was Valens. Incidentally,
neither of the ways was as I always thought it was pronounced - I've
always said "Vallens" but this voice said "Vaylens" and another way I've
forgotten now.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

In message <l7sepdFknsiU1@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 12 Apr 2024
10:55:56, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> writes
>On 12/04/2024 01:48, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <l7r1n0Fbg7tU3@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 11 Apr 2024
>>21:06:40, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>> []
>>> It really annoys me that I can't remember some of the other increasingly
>>> common mispronunciations (in general, not on UC). Other half and I
>>> frequently shout, in unison, our version at the wireless/TV on hearing
>>> one.
>>>
>> Febwy ... Julery ... and of course the worst, nucular?
>
>Not forgetting Guvverment.
>
>The other day I was playing something on YouTube and noticed that
>whereas it is quite common for subtitles to be a little mangled, in
>this case it was the speech that was mangled! It was an item about
>Buddy Holly and a couple of the examples I can remember are that Elena
>was pronounced in 2 quite different ways, as was Valens. Incidentally,
>neither of the ways was as I always thought it was pronounced - I've
>always said "Vallens" but this voice said "Vaylens" and another way
>I've forgotten now.
>
Increasingly, (some) YouTubers are using synthesized speech for the
soundtrack. I'm not sure why: I could understand it where the poster is
a non-native-English speaker, but that doesn't seem to be the reason in
all cases. (For example some of the "funny signs" collections - where
there isn't really any need for sound at all.)
I somehow feel short-changed and/or insulted when they do this, but
again can't really say why.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The party arrangement, which obliges perfectly sensible people to pretend the
world is simple, turns representatives into drones.
Jeremy Paxman, RT 2019/8/31-9/6

On 12-Apr-24 10:07, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <i0nh1jp6abdvbsqap5cgfvl04571vqgakv@4ax.com> at Fri, 12 Apr
> 2024 08:11:12, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> writes
> []
>> Our local GHR traffic reports are often full of "tempry lights".
>> I'm sure that on a bad day the report would be several seconds
>> longer if pronounced correctly.
>>
>> Chris
>
> Weather reports/forecasts are a rich seam. I don't normally mind, as (a)
> they're mostly people I like a lot, and (b) they sometimes invent new
> words that are rather fun anyway. But there are some recurrent ones: "E.
> Stanglia" is a common one, for example.

These things happen even in the domestic sphere. My wife sometimes asks
for a drink - which I hear as "A glass support".

--
Sam Plusnet

In message <13fSN.46574$lu2.7453@fx15.ams1> at Fri, 12 Apr 2024
19:28:13, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>On 12-Apr-24 10:07, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>> Weather reports/forecasts are a rich seam. I don't normally mind, as
>>(a) they're mostly people I like a lot, and (b) they sometimes invent
>>new words that are rather fun anyway. But there are some recurrent
>>ones: "E. Stanglia" is a common one, for example.
>
>These things happen even in the domestic sphere. My wife sometimes
>asks for a drink - which I hear as "A glass support".
>
Chuckle! Since (though I'm sure not in her case) it could be seen as
such.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Once you've started swinging, chimp-like, through the branches of your family
tree, you might easily end up anywhere. - Alexander Armstrong, RT 2014/8/23-29

On 11 Apr 2024 16:36:36 GMT, Jim Easterbrook wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 08:33:46 +0100, John Armstrong wrote:
>
>> I haven't watched the final yet, so thank you for not "spoiling" the
>> result.
>
> Agree.
>
>> However, I can't agree with you about Amol. His diction is poor at the
>> best of times, and appalling at moments of "excitement". To be fair to
>> the contestants, clarity at all times is paramount.
>
> Agree. Gross mispronunciation at times as well, but that seems to be
> more common generally on broadcast media these days. Unless I'm
> completely wrong about the pronunciation of words such as "inventory".

We watched the UC final last night. I've never heard anyone say "pastoral"
with the emphasis on the second syllable before. I also didn't recognise
Amol's pronunciation of Hiawatha, but I expect that one's changed as
attitudes to native Americans have evolved.

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

On 13/04/2024 09:04, Jim Easterbrook wrote:

<snip>

> We watched the UC final last night. I've never heard anyone say "pastoral"
> with the emphasis on the second syllable before. I also didn't recognise
> Amol's pronunciation of Hiawatha, but I expect that one's changed as
> attitudes to native Americans have evolved.

How?

--
Cheers
Clive

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:27:04 +0100, Clive Arthur wrote:

> On 13/04/2024 09:04, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> We watched the UC final last night. I've never heard anyone say
>> "pastoral"
>> with the emphasis on the second syllable before. I also didn't
>> recognise Amol's pronunciation of Hiawatha, but I expect that one's
>> changed as attitudes to native Americans have evolved.
>
> How?

How!

I've always known it as HIGH-er-woth-er, Amol said something like hee-AH-
wath-ah.

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes:

> On 11 Apr 2024 16:36:36 GMT, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 08:33:46 +0100, John Armstrong wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't watched the final yet, so thank you for not "spoiling" the
>>> result.
>>
>> Agree.
>>
>>> However, I can't agree with you about Amol. His diction is poor at the
>>> best of times, and appalling at moments of "excitement". To be fair to
>>> the contestants, clarity at all times is paramount.
>>
>> Agree. Gross mispronunciation at times as well, but that seems to be
>> more common generally on broadcast media these days. Unless I'm
>> completely wrong about the pronunciation of words such as "inventory".
>
> We watched the UC final last night. I've never heard anyone say "pastoral"
> with the emphasis on the second syllable before. I also didn't recognise
> Amol's pronunciation of Hiawatha, but I expect that one's changed as
> attitudes to native Americans have evolved.

I'm afraid I have limited sympathy with those who insist on a particular
pronunciation. I have good reason for this. From the age of 11 I was
bullied by teachers and fellow pupils alike in an attempt to force me
(they failed mostly) to practice Home Counties barbarities like
'baaahth' for the perfectly straightforward 'bath' or 'dast' instead of
'dust'. It's particularly annoying to me when nesh southerners suggest
that people like me come from "oop north". We don't, we come from up
north, with the 'u' solidly forged by the ironworkers of the Rossendale
forest long before the Romans came, and just as Chaucer heard it. Not
the wussy "ap nawth" of the southron folk. Don't start me on what they
do with 'books'. Obviously the 'oo' vowel is consistent across 'book',
'boob', ' boot' and so on. (It is here in Scotland too, just not the
same vowel as in Lancashire, more like a german 'ö', but that's a whole
other story.)

And the point is, I abhor all attempts to standardise pronunciation and
laugh at all proposals to reform spelling in line with how language is
pronounced. (Pronounced by who?)

Hey, and I think I've raised this before, do you know what really,
really pisses me off? The practice of classically-trained singers carefully
enunciating folk songs in a precise and prissy RP. I don't know that
this still happens but the classic example of Kathleen Ferrier (who had
a fine natural Lancashire accent) singing "Blow the Wind Southerly" (the
lament of a working-class Durham lass) in pristine Home Counties. I find
that culturally offensive and sends me running for recordings of the
Unthanks.

Rosie

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 13:16:50 +0100, Rosie Mitchell wrote:

> I'm afraid I have limited sympathy with those who insist on a particular
> pronunciation.

Fair enough. But in the context of a quiz where questions are being read
out it helps to use a pronunciation most people can understand. (I've just
remembered Anne Robinson on 15-to-1 asking a question about "Zaddock" the
priest.)

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0